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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 20:22:14 GMT
It may be mainly the unvaccinated who are suffering but it's not only them. With my current heart condition I am at an extremely high risk of dying if I catch this, even being double-vaccinated. Until I can get this fixed I don't have the reserve strength to survive any additional load. I'm none too happy with the general attitude in Britain at the moment that with vaccinations available the only people who will die are the ones who kind of deserve it. And bear in mind that until I was diagnosed I thought I was reasonably healthy (I have other health issues but none that increase my Covid19 risk), so many of you out there thinking "I have nothing to worry about" may be very wrong. On top of that, the reason I'm still waiting for treatment is because the hospitals are so busy with Covid-19 cases. What I have is easy to fix but I need to get into a hospital for a day, so all the people who are happy for cases to rise instead of taking simple precautions to fight this are putting me at risk twice over: from the much greater chance of exposure to someone infected and from the greater time I'm vulnerable because I can't get treatment. So I'm really rather disgusted with a government that seems to want to wait and see what happens, given that the last three times they tried that approach it ended up as a disaster. It speaks volumes about the utter incompetence of this government that they expect 100K cases per day during the winter and think the best course of action is to warn people how bad it's going to be instead of, say, taking any action at all to make it less bad. I feel for you but the only thing which will materially get things down are severe restrictions for a medium/long period of time.a few more people wearing masks won't do it I'm afraid. I'm not convinced that's true. Severe restrictions such as a complete lockdown were needed to get the case numbers down fast back before there were vaccines, but if the reproduction rate of the virus is only just above 1 then all it takes is removing something like 10% of its opportunities to jump from person to person and the reproduction rate will fall below 1 and we'll have it under control. Things were looking really good a few months ago, and I think if we hadn't relaxed restrictions quite so quickly and if the government had tended more towards a "be careful" message rather than a "get back to normal" one then things would still be pretty good now. This disease isn't going to go away but it also didn't need to get this bad this quickly. I wouldn't want to do that. Personally I'm fine with voluntarily imposing restrictions on myself. But if the government had done a better job then I wouldn't need to. Thanks. I'm not due for a booster until December so until then I'm being careful to only go places when I know those places aren't busy. I was already in the habit of doing my shopping at 07:00 on a Saturday morning anyway but if I see a crowd anywhere I'm just going to nope right out of there. From a medical point of view the main problem is that I feel like crap all the time and I can't go anywhere to cheer myself up. The positive side is that fixing it isn't a complicated procedure so I may get lucky with scheduling. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 20:34:44 GMT
Sorry for my posts about working from home. I won’t mention the subject again. You don't have to be sorry. We're just engaging on it. I don't think your frustration is invalid, I just think corporations need to do better to make working from home convenient and possible. |
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Post by Jon on Oct 21, 2021 20:51:54 GMT
Would it not only be used for those serous enough to require hospital admission? They're both oral treatments for mild and moderate Covid so it'll only be used on those most at risk of hospitalisation initially. |
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Post by Jonnyboy on Oct 21, 2021 21:21:41 GMT
Nearly everyone I know who just wants to ‘get back to normal’ hasn’t had anyone close die or become seriously ill from covid. Funny that.
If you’re told a dead loved one may have survived with someone being that bit more careful/thoughtful, how would you feel?
Or would you just shrug, accept their death and say, we just want to get back to normal.
This isn’t directed at any one person, btw.
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Post by theatreian on Oct 21, 2021 21:26:13 GMT
If our population were as keen to get double vaccinated as say Portugal then I don't think we would be in this mess. The government has some blame but it cannot force people to be vaccinated. Those who have not been double vaccinated or had the booster when entitled are putting others at risk.
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Post by stagebyte on Oct 21, 2021 21:36:49 GMT
The same way that mandating people not smoking in enclosed public spaces is for the public good. The same way that speed restrictions are for the public good. Before those things were mandated, people also *chose* not to give a sh*t if smoking in a restaurant or a plane or an office would make other people around them sick (not to mention the smell) or if driving as fast as they*chose* to would mean an increased risk to running over someone in a residential area or causing an accident, that doesn't mean that what they were doing was for the public good. I find the whining about wearing a small piece of fabric over ones nose and mouth to lessen the likelihood of unknowingly infecting other people or, if we are to go with the entirely selfish motivation, to lessen the likelihood that we get locked down again incredibly tiresome, tbh. What you're describing is entirely different to the issue of wearing masks for extended periods though. People dont HAVE to smoke indoors. You can drive up to a certain speed. Those two are very different things to expect people to wear masks for hours on end ( i especially find it weird to expect kids to wear them) Each to their own, but the majority of the population are choosing not to wear them. Need to address that rather than call them selfish e.t.c. The first act was 55 minutes long and the Curve asked very politely repeatedly. It did make me smile when Derren Brown made a point of saying anyone coming up on stage for one of the tricks should be wearing a mask as he has 250 dates and wants to remain healthy. A fair few surreptitiously putting the masks back on - hilarious Also the theatre was not full. Lack of confidence from some sectors not wanting to mix in large crowds? A mask for generally one hour Max before a break is a small price to pay for restoring public confidence and getting live theatre back on its feet? |
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Post by eggemann on Oct 21, 2021 21:38:23 GMT
This type of vaccine doesn’t provide protection infinitely. Like a flu jab I assume. So I’m curious what the plan is as we enter 2022 and people will be approaching a year since their jabs.
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Post by Jon on Oct 21, 2021 21:59:16 GMT
This type of vaccine doesn’t provide protection infinitely. Like a flu jab I assume. So I’m curious what the plan is as we enter 2022 and people will be approaching a year since their jabs. At a guess, probably yearly vaccines for kids, the elderly and the vulnerable and anti viral treatments for everyone else. Novavax and Moderna are already working on a combined Flu and Covid vaccine alongside a mRNA vaccine for flu which targets multiple strains which IMO could change the way flu is dealt with as the current system is not foolproof. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Oct 21, 2021 22:12:00 GMT
Like Matthew I tick that vulnerable box, so have to be extra careful. However I don’t want to go all through that shielding again, the second/third time was utterly miserable and always being mindful to be careful.
I yearn for the day, when I can sit in the stalls, without a mask, in other words, I just want to see the back of this damn thing.
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 22, 2021 8:48:08 GMT
This type of vaccine doesn’t provide protection infinitely. Like a flu jab I assume. So I’m curious what the plan is as we enter 2022 and people will be approaching a year since their jabs. At a guess, probably yearly vaccines for kids, the elderly and the vulnerable and anti viral treatments for everyone else. Novavax and Moderna are already working on a combined Flu and Covid vaccine alongside a mRNA vaccine for flu which targets multiple strains which IMO could change the way flu is dealt with as the current system is not foolproof. I think it have to be vaccines being available for everyone - maybe at a cost for everyone else like the flu jab is. Some countries will certainly require it for International travel and it won’t be sustainable to tell people you too young to be able to travel to that country. |
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Post by christya on Oct 22, 2021 10:11:15 GMT
I'm not considered vulnerable, but have never stopped wearing my mask, even though I absolutely hate the bloody things and would be glad to never see one again. But I can't see it helping much, when if I go into a supermarket I only see two or three other people wearing them, and there were maybe 20% of people wearing masks in theatres over the weekend (though, to be fair, two of the three theatres asked for covid passes on the way in). It was a stupid idea to take away mandatory masks, when they always knew it might be necessary to bring them back in during the winter. It would have been easier to get people to continue, than to get them to restart.
If it was only the deliberately unvaccinated at risk, I quite honestly couldn't give less of a damn, because as far as I'm concerned they did it to themselves, but unfortunately it isn't.
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 22, 2021 22:41:48 GMT
I wish the Government would stop telling us what they aren't going to do and begin having a stab at actually doing something, anything to address the rising numbers. Mandating masks, the easiest thing to do, would be a start.
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Post by G on Oct 23, 2021 7:49:12 GMT
I'm not considered vulnerable, but have never stopped wearing my mask, even though I absolutely hate the bloody things and would be glad to never see one again. But I can't see it helping much, when if I go into a supermarket I only see two or three other people wearing them, and there were maybe 20% of people wearing masks in theatres over the weekend (though, to be fair, two of the three theatres asked for covid passes on the way in). It was a stupid idea to take away mandatory masks, when they always knew it might be necessary to bring them back in during the winter. It would have been easier to get people to continue, than to get them to restart. Completely agree with this point on masks. The mixed messages from the government are the main culprit I think, people in the UK are following the 'back to normal' bit of the guidance (not sure they ever put it like this, but surely this is the message that comes across if one looks beyond the equivocations) and ignoring all the guidance on mask wearing. Theatres are a clear example: requests to wear masks are all around but dismissed. In Italy (where I'm from) the UK is being cited as an example of what 'not to do' (restrictions removed vs gradual easing). A bit rich as Italy also had a less than stellar management of the pandemic and vaccine rollout in the initial stages, but the 'gradual' approach in easing restrictions (mask mandates and covid passports) seems to have helped with the current rates. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-20/draghi-cites-u-k-s-covid-response-as-example-of-what-not-to-do |
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Post by olliebean on Oct 23, 2021 17:59:35 GMT
More people in the UK now have Covid-19 than at any time previously, including during the January peak, so I'll keep wearing my mask for now, thanks.
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 24, 2021 8:41:07 GMT
It would be funny if it wasn't so horrifying. The Goverment are as economically illiterate as they are dangerous to public health. A few minor restrictions now would help keep businesses open. Not doing so will eventually lead to more severe restrictions that will impact businesses.
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 24, 2021 8:54:07 GMT
It would be funny if it wasn't so horrifying. The Goverment are as economically illiterate as they are dangerous to public health. A few minor restrictions now would help keep businesses open. Not doing so will eventually lead to more severe restrictions that will impact businesses. I don’t think enough people would follow minor restrictions anymore through. |
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Post by greeny11 on Oct 24, 2021 9:09:38 GMT
Was at Back to the Future and Les Mis yesterday and both checked everyone's Covid passes - and at BTTF, asked for masks to be worn. I'm guessing some hadn't brought a mask, but I'd say about 65-70% of the BTTF audience wore a mask throughout. It was less at Les Mis, but still signficantly more than what I've seen at most shows. Both journeys on the tube were also mostly masked people - I'd say 80-90% masked in the carriages I was in. Compared to back home, mask wearing is a lot more prevalent in London.
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Post by lynette on Oct 24, 2021 9:55:10 GMT
It would be funny if it wasn't so horrifying. The Goverment are as economically illiterate as they are dangerous to public health. A few minor restrictions now would help keep businesses open. Not doing so will eventually lead to more severe restrictions that will impact businesses. I don’t think enough people would follow minor restrictions anymore through. On my High Street is it ‘over’ regardless of what is happening in schools or what people do in their homes. You can just see it. We live in a fairly ok area according to the figures so perhaps that is getting through with people not knowing sufferers or not seeing masks etc so not bothering themselves. The Government are obviously hoping for the best for the winter with their fingers crossed. Could go either way, couldn’t it? |
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Post by olliebean on Oct 24, 2021 10:53:55 GMT
I do wish they'd stop propagating this fiction that it's somehow less transmissible amongst people who know each other and see each other regularly, which is clearly intended to make people feel it's safe to go back to the office (and presumably to keep sending their children to schools, where it is rampant).
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Post by mkb on Oct 24, 2021 10:58:21 GMT
Mask exemptions, based on either age or a general "medical" disinclination to wear one, didn't help.
I gather from psychiatrists and medical doctors I know that there is pretty much no good reason to not wear one. Most medical excuses don't really stack up.
I was in another country recently where everyone other than toddlers had to wear masks, and compliance was near universal.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2021 12:31:45 GMT
Mask exemptions, based on either age or a general "medical" disinclination to wear one, didn't help. I gather from psychiatrists and medical doctors I know that there is pretty much no good reason to not wear one. Most medical excuses don't really stack up. I was in another country recently where everyone other than toddlers had to wear masks, and compliance was near universal. Indeed. And funnily enough on every flight I've been on no-one has tried to claim a medical exemption. I've always taken the view that you should only get a medical exemption if a doctor signs a certificate that you can carry around at all times declaring you are exempt. That is no different to proving vaccine status and doesn't penalise those who genuinely can't medically wear a mask. I see no reason to change that view. |
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Post by marob on Oct 24, 2021 13:57:51 GMT
The exemptions are a joke. A grubby old man I sometimes see on the bus has one of those lanyards saying he has a hidden disability that means he can’t wear a mask. He’s still able to chain smoke until the bus comes though.
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Post by mkb on Oct 24, 2021 14:38:53 GMT
The exemptions are a joke. A grubby old man I sometimes see on the bus has one of those lanyards saying he has a hidden disability that means he can’t wear a mask. He’s still able to chain smoke until the bus comes though. The problem with putting the onus on doctors is that it becomes like the current situation with sick notes: for a quiet life, many doctors will just issue one on the say-so of the patient; they will correctly reason that it's not their job to police whether patients tell the truth. |
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 24, 2021 15:43:16 GMT
The exemptions are a joke. A grubby old man I sometimes see on the bus has one of those lanyards saying he has a hidden disability that means he can’t wear a mask. He’s still able to chain smoke until the bus comes though. The problem with putting the onus on doctors is that it becomes like the current situation with sick notes: for a quiet life, many doctors will just issue one on the say-so of the patient; they will correctly reason that it's not their job to police whether patients tell the truth. Particualy as it would be conducted over the phone and quite likely de facto granted by the receptionist due to workload issues. |
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Post by londonpostie on Oct 24, 2021 16:17:44 GMT
Nearly everyone I know who just wants to ‘get back to normal’ hasn’t had anyone close die or become seriously ill from covid. Funny that. If you’re told a dead loved one may have survived with someone being that bit more careful/thoughtful, how would you feel? Or would you just shrug, accept their death and say, we just want to get back to normal. This isn’t directed at any one person, btw.
My neightbour thinks Covid is a conspiracy, that it doesn't really exist. By way of eidence, he says to me 'well, do you know anyone who died from it?'.
140K divided by 68 million means about the death rate is 1:500
But it's not. Most people who died have been over 65, overwhelmingly they had pre-existing conditions.
So the maths, more accurately, is that you would have to know 500 people over 65 in order to know one person who died, and that person may well have had pre-existing.
So, not many people *know* someone who died. Especially given a significant proportion were in nursing homes.
I don't take a view on your argument but I will say that probably (about) 1% of the population "has had someone close die of Covid".
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