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Post by eua78 on Jul 21, 2021 6:45:36 GMT
France is going full on vaccine passports from august, requiring you to show them at restaurants, stores, cinemas, hospitals, trains etc. Basically a mandatory vaccination programme, I’m glad in the uk we won’t need to carry a vaccine passport to visit tesco 😂
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 21, 2021 7:11:23 GMT
France is going full on vaccine passports from august, requiring you to show them at restaurants, stores, cinemas, hospitals, trains etc. Basically a mandatory vaccination programme, I’m glad in the uk we won’t need to carry a vaccine passport to visit tesco 😂 Macron > Johnson
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 21, 2021 7:47:06 GMT
They should really have said that restrictions would be relaxed when some certain percentage of people had been vaccinated and the reproduction rate of the virus was remaining below 1. Then there'd be an incentive for people to take action to get there. Setting a fixed date when restrictions would be removed regardless and saying "Gee, I sure hope we can hit all the right targets by then" was unbelievably stupid. That would be the Covid Recovery Group, led by the Tory MP Graham Brady. Who wrote a Oped in last week's Mail on Sunday and said that Covid is basically spread in Private Homes, Schools and Care Homes only.
I do agree the Government that we should be guided by the data and we will have to live with Covid in some form.
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Post by adrianics on Jul 21, 2021 10:51:02 GMT
Presumably now distancing has been ditched, a lot more people will get pinged by the app. Is the isolation mandatory or is it now a case of testing and if it's negative then carry on? There is no legal obligation to self-isolate due to the NHS App and there never has been; it's purely "advisory" and down to the discretion and good judgement of the individual. The infamous trial that Gove, Johnson and Sunak (coincidentally, I'm sure) got randomly picked for involves testing every day, going to work and isolating at home for the duration of whatever timeframe the app gives you. If you're contacted directly by NHS Track and Trace over the phone or email, you are legally obliged to self-isolate; I believe this happens if you're given as a direct contact by someone who has tested positive.
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Post by sph on Jul 21, 2021 14:36:34 GMT
I can see how nightclubs are the most difficult one. Whereas in theatres and other venues you can exert some sort of crowd control and mask-wearing, nightclubs have lots of people dancing in tightly packed groups and, due to the loud music, shouting in each others' faces.
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Post by jojo on Jul 21, 2021 15:14:47 GMT
It just seems crazy to open nightclubs when virus numbers are so high and the main clubbing demographic are not fully vaccinated. I feel awful for the people who run clubs, but surely we can direct some extra public funding their way for an extra month or so.
According to someone on the news, there's no problem with vaccine availability, but take up has slowed right down. All of the enthusiastic younger people rushed to make appointments, but there's still a decent chunk who aren't keen, or are procrastinating for a variety of reasons.
An added challenge is that you can't go for your vaccine if you are isolating because you've been someone's contact, and you aren't supposed to be vaccinated within 30 (I think) days of a positive test.
I'm luck in that I live near to a main vaccination centre, but for some it requires blocking out a big chunk of their day, possibly needing a day off work and so on.
Hopefully they can get some more mobile vaccination clinics around and about, especially in areas with poor public transport.
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Post by Mark on Jul 21, 2021 15:29:03 GMT
It just seems crazy to open nightclubs when virus numbers are so high and the main clubbing demographic are not fully vaccinated. I feel awful for the people who run clubs, but surely we can direct some extra public funding their way for an extra month or so. I mean, the reopening already got delayed by a month. You can keep delaying and delaying but then at some point, they have to be allowed to open "normally" Nobody is forcing anyone to go to a nightclub. Edit to add: Some signs of early slowing according to the Guardian today. Lets hope rates continue to fall.
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Post by jojo on Jul 21, 2021 16:07:59 GMT
I hope rates do continue to slow, with levelling off not too far off. We'd expect some since the school holidays started and now the Euros have ended. That's what we saw in Scotland, though our numbers shot up sooner, so it's perhaps a bit more complicated than that.
I accept that nightclubs will have to open at some point, but I reject that as a reason for doing it while numbers are high and still rising. And no, no-one is forced to go to a nightclub, but people who do go to nightclubs leave and they go into shops, cafes, pubs and hospitals. No-one is suggesting holding off on opening them indefinitely, but we have vaccines and we're in the middle of rolling them out to the main night club demographic. We know that an extra few weeks would mean the proportion of nightclub demographic with good COVID protection will be significantly higher.
With far fewer kids and teachers LFK tests now it's holiday time, you'd expect a fairly instant relative cut to asymptomatic positives, and even if they did all keep up with the testing, we'd expect to see evidence of a reduction of spread between kids in another week or so. It's too early to see the signs of an up-tick from nightclubs and I can't help but think the government insisted on letting them open on Monday so that will be masked by the change in behaviour from school kids and football fans.
I suspect BoJo has bottled it a bit, as the hastily produced suggestion of a vaccine passport for clubs was raised only after footage had been shown on tv which will only come into effect long after people have had the chance to spread it around. If case rates had been lower, and hospitals weren't complaining about already being stretched it wouldn't be so bad. Or if the Netherlands hadn't already done a hasty reversal of their reopening of clubs.
I feel for the medical and scientific experts trying to communicate stuff to him. He's incapable of thinking of what might happen next, even when it's spelled out to him.
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 21, 2021 17:50:57 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 21, 2021 18:07:41 GMT
It just seems crazy to open nightclubs when virus numbers are so high and the main clubbing demographic are not fully vaccinated. I feel awful for the people who run clubs, but surely we can direct some extra public funding their way for an extra month or so. I mean, the reopening already got delayed by a month. You can keep delaying and delaying but then at some point, they have to be allowed to open "normally" Nobody is forcing anyone to go to a nightclub. Edit to add: Some signs of early slowing according to the Guardian today. Lets hope rates continue to fall. Said rates slowing not falling??
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 21, 2021 19:59:46 GMT
I mean, the reopening already got delayed by a month. You can keep delaying and delaying but then at some point, they have to be allowed to open "normally" Nobody is forcing anyone to go to a nightclub. Edit to add: Some signs of early slowing according to the Guardian today. Lets hope rates continue to fall. Said rates slowing not falling?? The rate of increase is falling, which is important because it means we've dropped below exponential growth.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 22, 2021 15:53:30 GMT
Why is lying accepted but pointing it out results in being asked to leave? That is not democracy:
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 22, 2021 17:30:51 GMT
Why is lying accepted but pointing it out results in being asked to leave? MPs aren't allowed to accuse each other of lying, presumably because it's redundant.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 22, 2021 17:33:23 GMT
Interesting that BJ has done this to clubbers aka people who may not vote Tory. When compared to what to what football and tennis fans got away with last month. And just for the record I'm in favour of passport's and ID cards Intrigued me this post. Got me thinking. Not saying it’s wrong. It got me thinking at what seemed a strange dynamic. Football in the same bracket as tennis against the working class clubbers. With football long since the working mans game, I’m still not sure it was a majority of Tory’s at Wembley. Remember, go woke go through. More cheered the taking of the knee, eventually, than booed. And the Torys only get a majority in age groups 60+ crowd seemed younger than that. I know some right wing nutcases and the football lads alliance were involved in storming the stadium but all of that said I could not tell you if that tipped the majority to Tory supporters?? Don’t know anything about crowds at Wimbledon, though, come on Tim
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 22, 2021 18:00:09 GMT
Why is lying accepted but pointing it out results in being asked to leave? MPs aren't allowed to accuse each other of lying, presumably because it's redundant. Surely it's a statement of unequivocal fact, not an accusation? And that being the case, how can stating a fact be punishable? What a backwards system we have.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 22, 2021 18:05:39 GMT
MPs aren't allowed to accuse each other of lying, presumably because it's redundant. Surely it's a statement of unequivocal fact, not an accusation? And that being the case, how can stating a fact be punishable? What a backwards system we have. Oy that’s British democracy you’re talking about. Sacked from at least two jobs for lying. You’d have thought you could say that
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 22, 2021 18:22:27 GMT
Lad I know went to the hospital with his girlfriend today. Family got call yesterday to come down as there was nothing further they could do and turning ventilator off.
Fifty five years old and a fit, healthy man. Double jabbed was still working three weeks ago today.
Stay safe out there folks
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 22, 2021 18:48:37 GMT
theglenbucklaird That is both very sad & absolutely terrifying. If people are still dying despite being fully vaccinated then how can anyone feel safe?
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Post by olliebean on Jul 22, 2021 21:47:51 GMT
MPs aren't allowed to accuse each other of lying, presumably because it's redundant. Surely it's a statement of unequivocal fact, not an accusation? And that being the case, how can stating a fact be punishable? What a backwards system we have. I think the convention is to point out that what has been said is wrong, but stop short of calling it a lie. The idea being that MPs might be mistaken - in which case they're supposed to correct the record (which Johnson never does) - but are certainly too honourable to deliberately tell an untruth.
It's a convention that serves Boris Johnson particularly well.
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Post by theatreian on Jul 22, 2021 22:18:49 GMT
It does seem worrying that people are saying that in theatres a lot of people are not wearing masks. I am not sure if the policy in each theatre is different but surely this needs to change as I for one will not be encouraged back any time soon if this lax and selfish attitude by those audience members is not changed especially when the virus is still fairly rife.
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Post by peggs on Jul 22, 2021 22:40:16 GMT
I suppose since it isn't now mandatory they're worried people will not come if they have to wear masks? Though clearly the opposite is also likely.
Rang my hairdresser and was relieved when they said they were still following all previous procedures.
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 23, 2021 3:55:49 GMT
Rang my hairdresser and was relieved when they said they were still following all previous procedures. I'm going to mosey past mine and see what they're doing. The owner's getting on a bit — I believe he set up the business in the 60s — so I expect they'll be playing it safe.
In general I see this as a good guideline to which businesses deserve to keep my custom. If they're doing the absolute minimum required by law to keep customers safe where I can see them what are they likely to be like behind the scenes?
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 23, 2021 6:38:54 GMT
Surely it's a statement of unequivocal fact, not an accusation? And that being the case, how can stating a fact be punishable? What a backwards system we have. I think the convention is to point out that what has been said is wrong, but stop short of calling it a lie. The idea being that MPs might be mistaken - in which case they're supposed to correct the record (which Johnson never does) - but are certainly too honourable to deliberately tell an untruth.
It's a convention that serves Boris Johnson particularly well.
Could you say, the prime minister has been sacked from two jobs, is he correct with this point? Anyway, if opposition could get organised this is a great attack on the government and pm. One or two a day call him out as a liar. Get suspended from the house for a day. Rinse and repeat
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 23, 2021 6:41:04 GMT
Rang my hairdresser and was relieved when they said they were still following all previous procedures. I'm going to mosey past mine and see what they're doing. The owner's getting on a bit — I believe he set up the business in the 60s — so I expect they'll be playing it safe.
In general I see this as a good guideline to which businesses deserve to keep my custom. If they're doing the absolute minimum required by law to keep customers safe where I can see them what are they likely to be like behind the scenes?
What a great phrase mosey is? Not heard this for ages. I’m going to use this several times today
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Post by kathryn on Jul 23, 2021 8:58:35 GMT
theglenbucklaird That is both very sad & absolutely terrifying. If people are still dying despite being fully vaccinated then how can anyone feel safe? fullfact.org/online/fully-vaccinated-deaths-daily-expose/There’s a good explainer here. It’s obviously completely awful to look at it this way, but vaccination in a numbers game. It reduces the risk of hospitalisation by 96%. That means that 4% of people exposed could still end up in hospital and potentially die. The true protective impact is getting enough people vaccinated that it doesn’t spread widely enough in the population to reach the 4% of people still susceptible to hospitalisation after vaccination. It’s why the high case numbers are so worrying - yes, most vaccinated people will be ok, but 4% of the clinically vulnerable is still a LOT of people. And what makes you clinically vulnerable is not necessarily obvious - it’s clearly not just the elderly and the unwell. That’s not to say we should all be horribly paranoid - the risk is significantly lower post-vaccination. It’s just that across a population of 60+ million some people will be unlucky.
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Post by maggiem on Jul 23, 2021 9:45:50 GMT
I'm reminded of Jyn Erso's speech in Rogue One
"If we can make it to the ground, we'll take the next chance. And the next. On and on until we win... or the chances are spent."
That's how I'm living, and doing the activities that I have planned for this and next year. Every trip to a theatre or just going shopping or to work is a "chance". Any one of them could be the last chance, but I'm planning, doing, and carrying on regardless, because I refuse to give in to fear.
I will be taking all the precautions I can to make sure I'm not the one ruining someone else's chances.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 23, 2021 10:22:29 GMT
fullfact.org/online/fully-vaccinated-deaths-daily-expose/There’s a good explainer here. It’s obviously completely awful to look at it this way, but vaccination in a numbers game. It reduces the risk of hospitalisation by 96%. That means that 4% of people exposed could still end up in hospital and potentially die. The true protective impact is getting enough people vaccinated that it doesn’t spread widely enough in the population to reach the 4% of people still susceptible to hospitalisation after vaccination. It’s why the high case numbers are so worrying - yes, most vaccinated people will be ok, but 4% of the clinically vulnerable is still a LOT of people. And what makes you clinically vulnerable is not necessarily obvious - it’s clearly not just the elderly and the unwell. That’s not to say we should all be horribly paranoid - the risk is significantly lower post-vaccination. It’s just that across a population of 60+ million some people will be unlucky. My problem is that I can't look at it as a numbers game. While I am very sory for anyone dying of covid, when it comes down to it the only thing that reallly matters to me is that my mother doesn't die of covid, because I can't cope with living on my own so when she dies I'll have to kill myself. So unless I can have a guarantee that my mother won't die of covid, which I can't, I will remain paranoid & terrified of covid.
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Post by Jon on Jul 23, 2021 16:44:43 GMT
I'm reminded of Jyn Erso's speech in Rogue One "If we can make it to the ground, we'll take the next chance. And the next. On and on until we win... or the chances are spent." That's how I'm living, and doing the activities that I have planned for this and next year. Every trip to a theatre or just going shopping or to work is a "chance". Any one of them could be the last chance, but I'm planning, doing, and carrying on regardless, because I refuse to give in to fear. I will be taking all the precautions I can to make sure I'm not the one ruining someone else's chances. I agree with this sentiment, if you have the mindset that everything is out to kill you then you'll be stuck inside forever living a miserable existence. We take risks and follow rules all the time whether it be crossing the road to taking medication and it's no different in a pandemic.
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Post by sfsusan on Jul 23, 2021 20:26:24 GMT
That means that 4% of people exposed could still end up in hospital and potentially die. And we can improve those numbers by continuing to take simple precautions.
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Post by sph on Jul 24, 2021 2:01:31 GMT
fullfact.org/online/fully-vaccinated-deaths-daily-expose/There’s a good explainer here. It’s obviously completely awful to look at it this way, but vaccination in a numbers game. It reduces the risk of hospitalisation by 96%. That means that 4% of people exposed could still end up in hospital and potentially die. The true protective impact is getting enough people vaccinated that it doesn’t spread widely enough in the population to reach the 4% of people still susceptible to hospitalisation after vaccination. It’s why the high case numbers are so worrying - yes, most vaccinated people will be ok, but 4% of the clinically vulnerable is still a LOT of people. And what makes you clinically vulnerable is not necessarily obvious - it’s clearly not just the elderly and the unwell. That’s not to say we should all be horribly paranoid - the risk is significantly lower post-vaccination. It’s just that across a population of 60+ million some people will be unlucky. My problem is that I can't look at it as a numbers game. While I am very sory for anyone dying of covid, when it comes down to it the only thing that reallly matters to me is that my mother doesn't die of covid, because I can't cope with living on my own so when she dies I'll have to kill myself. So unless I can have a guarantee that my mother won't die of covid, which I can't, I will remain paranoid & terrified of covid. I think that perhaps, Covid aside, you may need to get some form of help in order to deal with your situation. It sounds like an issue that isn't going to go away even if Covid does, and there are many resources out there focusing on helping people in your position. Maybe visit your GP or refer yourself to counselling services?
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