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Post by kathryn on Sept 10, 2022 7:45:43 GMT
I'm sure I read something about minor royals in other royal families having proper jobs, like being a nurse or architect or similar. Those jobs work well because they require a qualification, not a surname or a PR team to progress, so it removes concerns about milking the brand.. The Dutch King used to fly for KLM. I think he might still do on occasion so he can keep his licence. Yes. But European Royals have been much lower profile for decades. The British (and Commonwealth) public expect much more from them. They must Do Philanthropy - they can’t just have a normal life and pop up at the odd official event from time to time.
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Post by karloscar on Sept 10, 2022 8:04:14 GMT
The Dutch King used to fly for KLM. I think he might still do on occasion so he can keep his licence. Yes. But European Royals have been much lower profile for decades. The British (and Commonwealth) public expect much more from them. They must Do Philanthropy - they can’t just have a normal life and pop up at the odd official event from time to time. Do we really expect much more from the Royals? I suspect that a monarchy similar in scale to the Danish or Swedish royal families would be perfectly acceptable and far less expensive. (Or better still it's a great opportunity to abolish the House of Lords and Royal Family and become a modern democracy with a proper constitution)
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Post by kathryn on Sept 10, 2022 9:10:03 GMT
There are people still throwing tantrums about Meghan and Harry not posing on the hospital steps with Archie or spending August in Balmoral. And I mean *tantrums* - spiteful invective. Because they didn’t exactly follow ‘tradition’ (completely optional, non- constitutional, trivial things) to the letter.
Some people just Do Not Like change of any form. They regard the Royal Family and its pettiest, most inconsequential traditions, customs and ceremonies as signs of stability and continuity, and they have some kind of weird psychological need for that.
Yes, people expect more. They feel a sense of ownership.
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Post by jojo on Sept 10, 2022 10:01:19 GMT
Yes. But European Royals have been much lower profile for decades. The British (and Commonwealth) public expect much more from them. They must Do Philanthropy - they can’t just have a normal life and pop up at the odd official event from time to time. Do we really expect much more from the Royals? I suspect that a monarchy similar in scale to the Danish or Swedish royal families would be perfectly acceptable and far less expensive. (Or better still it's a great opportunity to abolish the House of Lords and Royal Family and become a modern democracy with a proper constitution) We need to reform and slim the Lords, not abolish it. They do a lot of important work there, and somewhat ironically, on a political level at least, they are more representative of the public than the House of Commons. Which is presumably why Johnson seemed so keen to stuff the place with a string of his own allies. That's the bit that needs changing - and to stop replacing the hereditary peers of course. But so long as the Commons is elected by undemocratic First Past the Post, complaining about the Lords or the Monarchy is a distraction. It may be that we missed the easier windows for change of the Monarchy. It must be easier to make smaller changes with each new monarch when changes are more frequent and to have moved onto that path before rolling news and the internet. The rise of celebrity culture plays a role. The newspapers love to fill their pages with stories about them, making mountains out of molehills and a bit of strife sells. It's easy and cheap reporting, and they are known across all demographics. If the royals don't give them the access they want, they'll push back and make another story. I recall there being some kind of agreement between Charles and the press about William and Harry while they were still at school and while William was at university. It was along the lines of leave them alone most of the time and we'll provide you with a certain amount of arranged photo opportunities. This may have been done after Diana's death when there was push back against intrusive photography, so he had a bit more power over them at that time. However, it still angers me that the tabloids pushed the idea that the Queen should leave Balmoral (and her grandchildren) to be with her people at Buckingham Palace. They just wanted the photos. I've heard of pop stars and actors being similarly 'blackmailed' into giving exclusive interviews to avoid bad press. I could be wrong, but I doubt the Danes or Swedes have the same celebrity obsession as we do. Nevertheless, Charles did announce his intentions a long, long time ago, and most of the public were on board, so I think it will happen.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 10, 2022 10:15:58 GMT
The ascension ceremony we just saw was screened around the world. I watched along with my friend in Madrid. I don’t think I recall the last time we had the crowning of a Danish monarch screened and commented on across the globe. Maybe if Denmark had hung on to what some describe as “petty” or “inconsequential” or “unnecessary” tradition we would?
This tradition is what makes our country what it is. I’m all for it.
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Post by karloscar on Sept 10, 2022 13:39:49 GMT
The ascension ceremony we just saw was screened around the world. I watched along with my friend in Madrid. I don’t think I recall the last time we had the crowning of a Danish monarch screened and commented on across the globe. Maybe if Denmark had hung on to what some describe as “petty” or “inconsequential” or “unnecessary” tradition we would? This tradition is what makes our country what it is. I’m all for it. Well it's Queen Margarethe's golden jubilee, so no surprise they haven't had a coronation recently!
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Post by viserys on Sept 10, 2022 13:57:50 GMT
It was on German television, too. They made a big to-do in the last days about the Germanic roots of the Royal Family. I think it's because we don't have a monarchy of our own, that we obsess with yours (and to a smaller extent the Swedish one due to Sylvia's German background). We get some of the pomp, the tradition and the drama, but don't have to foot the bill
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 10, 2022 14:59:20 GMT
The ascension ceremony we just saw was screened around the world. I watched along with my friend in Madrid. I don’t think I recall the last time we had the crowning of a Danish monarch screened and commented on across the globe. Maybe if Denmark had hung on to what some describe as “petty” or “inconsequential” or “unnecessary” tradition we would? This tradition is what makes our country what it is. I’m all for it. Well it's Queen Margarethe's golden jubilee, so no surprise they haven't had a coronation recently! How lovely for her 🙂
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Post by karloscar on Sept 10, 2022 18:45:05 GMT
Well it's Queen Margarethe's golden jubilee, so no surprise they haven't had a coronation recently! How lovely for her 🙂 They've had to scale back the celebrations planned for this weekend out of respect for our Queen.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 10, 2022 19:15:08 GMT
They've had to scale back the celebrations planned for this weekend out of respect for our Queen. That’s a shame. But the point I was making was that we wouldn’t have known about it anyway. Because not many people, globally, care very much about Denmark’s monarchy whilst very many people care about ours. Despite some peoples assertions that it’s irrelevant it really isn’t.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Sept 10, 2022 20:11:51 GMT
Oh I like Queen Daisy. But I agree that more people will know the British royal family.
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Post by Dawnstar on Sept 10, 2022 20:58:42 GMT
That’s a shame. But the point I was making was that we wouldn’t have known about it anyway. Because not many people, globally, care very much about Denmark’s monarchy whilst very many people care about ours. Despite some peoples assertions that it’s irrelevant it really isn’t. We had a day in Copenhagen in 2015, while on a cruise, and when we got to their royal palace we were told that it was the state opening of parliament & Queen Margarethe would be exiting shortly. So of course we went round to the door indicated to try to see her, expecting there'd be huge crowds like at our state opening of parliament. To our considerable surprise there were hardly enough people there to even be called a crowd, more a huddle. I don't know if that's typical for Denmark but if it is then it'd seem even the locals don't care very much about their monarchy!
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Post by sfsusan on Sept 11, 2022 9:08:24 GMT
but it comes with reducing the overall amount of hand shaking and ribbon cutting As an American (with Cornish grandparents on my mother's side), I think having a non-partisan/non-political living representation of your country is one of the major benefits of the monarchy. And if you cut back on the ribbon cutting and handshaking, you risk severing that sense of personal connection with the royal family, rendering it increasingly isolated and therefore obsolete. Watching the interviews on tv, it's clear that people love recounting the time they saw the Queen in person, or Princess Diana visited their care home, etc. (Heck, I was thrilled to see the Queen at Royal Ascot, let alone winning some money betting on the color of her outfit!)
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 11, 2022 9:46:50 GMT
but it comes with reducing the overall amount of hand shaking and ribbon cutting As an American (with Cornish grandparents on my mother's side), I think having a non-partisan/non-political living representation of your country is one of the major benefits of the monarchy. And if you cut back on the ribbon cutting and handshaking, you risk severing that sense of personal connection with the royal family, rendering it increasingly isolated and therefore obsolete. Watching the interviews on tv, it's clear that people love recounting the time they saw the Queen in person, or Princess Diana visited their care home, etc. (Heck, I was thrilled to see the Queen at Royal Ascot, let alone winning some money betting on the color of her outfit!) Someone will take a bet on the colour of the Queens dress? Surely open to insider trading??
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Post by mkb on Sept 11, 2022 10:32:45 GMT
Mike Bartlett was spot on about Charlie immediately getting involved in politics, what with him allowing Truss to partner him on a tour of the UK. No separation of state and government then, and not as set out in London Bridge apparently.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Sept 11, 2022 10:53:22 GMT
There’s tradition and tradition, though. Much of the spectacle of monarchy are traditions going back centuries.
However, Meghan has been widely slammed for not following “traditions” invented by Diana which are at most 40 years old.
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Post by Jon on Sept 11, 2022 11:17:58 GMT
I think Charles recognises that the Monarchy needs to modernise and I wonder if the era of opening fetes and minor events might end or at least dramatically reduced?
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 11, 2022 11:32:03 GMT
I've just arrived in the city centre ready to hear the County Proclamation at 1pm. There's a good number here already, which will only grow over the next 30 minutes.
Because of the limited numbers allowed outside St James's Palace, far more people will hear the Proclamation outwith London, than were able to hear it 'live' yesterday.
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Post by n1david on Sept 11, 2022 11:42:49 GMT
It's interesting to see the proclamations fan out over the country.
I can understand that the news doesn't reach Abergavenny until 3pm today, given that it was only announced in Cardiff at noon; what I don't understand is that Islington's proclamation was at 11am this morning, I'd have thought the news would have reached there from St James's Palace more quickly given it's only 4 miles away...
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Post by Jan on Sept 11, 2022 11:46:05 GMT
Some people just Do Not Like change of any form. They regard the Royal Family and its pettiest, most inconsequential traditions, customs and ceremonies as signs of stability and continuity, and they have some kind of weird psychological need for that. There's nothing even slightly weird about wanting stability and continuity. There are literally hundreds of psychological studies which say that those are beneficial human needs and none saying the opposite.
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Post by theatreian on Sept 11, 2022 13:44:53 GMT
Attended a beautiful service at Malvern Priory this morning and sung the National Anthem the first time with King. Off to see 2 local proclamations soon, 3pm and 4pm, the county council then the local Mayor. Historic times!
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Post by sfsusan on Sept 11, 2022 13:55:27 GMT
what I don't understand is that Islington's proclamation was at 11am this morning, I'd have thought the news would have reached there from St James's Palace more quickly given it's only 4 miles away... The Tower of London's proclamation was at noon today, which seemed odd for the same reason.* But the ceremony was quite nice, with very few people turning up specifically for it. The Resident Governor of the Tower marched out with an escort of Yeoman Warders, there was a trumpet fanfare, then the governor read out an explanation of the proclamation, then the official proclamation. There was a command (I think of "God Save the King") followed by all the Beefeaters shouting "Amen!" loudly and in unison. They then repeated this at the four corners of the Tower property. I then decided to push my luck and head to Buckingham Palace. The line to get up to it was 90 minutes long, wending through the park. This was at 1:30 pm or so. A policewoman told me it had been like that all day, much busier than previous days. *There was a fair amount of confusion around the proper date and time. The Independent yesterday said it would be yesterday at 12 noon. Someone at the Tower yesterday told me it would be today at 12 noon. Today, the first volunteer I asked said today at 11:30 am. Then 11:45. Then 12:15, which is about when it started.
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Post by n1david on Sept 11, 2022 14:37:46 GMT
Attended a beautiful service at Malvern Priory this morning and sung the National Anthem the first time with King. Off to see 2 local proclamations soon, 3pm and 4pm, the county council then the local Mayor. Historic times! I hope they went better than the local one here in Abergavenny, where the Mayor concluded the proclamation with a rousing "God Save the Queen!" Oops...
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Post by theatreian on Sept 11, 2022 16:06:05 GMT
I hope they went better than the local one here in Abergavenny, where the Mayor concluded the proclamation with a rousing "God Save the Queen!" Oops... Yes it went very well. 3 times singing the National Anthem...no mistakes!
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Post by karloscar on Sept 11, 2022 18:11:24 GMT
Mike Bartlett was spot on about Charlie immediately getting involved in politics, what with him allowing Truss to partner him on a tour of the UK. No separation of state and government then, and not as set out in London Bridge apparently. Turns out it was just No10 trying to gatecrash. She won't be accompanying him anywhere, just attending memorial services in Edinburgh,Belfast and Cardiff.
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Post by Rozzi Rainbow on Sept 11, 2022 19:36:36 GMT
Attended a beautiful service at Malvern Priory this morning and sung the National Anthem the first time with King. Off to see 2 local proclamations soon, 3pm and 4pm, the county council then the local Mayor. Historic times! I hope they went better than the local one here in Abergavenny, where the Mayor concluded the proclamation with a rousing "God Save the Queen!" Oops... That happened at ours also! He was very flustered though as his mike wouldn't work and so he had to shout all the way through - we could hardly hear him. And we didn't even sing the National Anthem.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 11, 2022 19:45:10 GMT
Fantastic to hear of all of these ancient ceremonies going on around the country.
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Post by theatreian on Sept 11, 2022 21:16:45 GMT
Fantastic to hear of all of these ancient ceremonies going on around the country. Yes it was a real moment of history , in this social media instant news it was good to step back to past times.
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Post by jojo on Sept 12, 2022 15:52:59 GMT
On one hand these old ceremonies are archaic and ridiculous, but they are also fascinating. I love history, and between the silly outfits, these events get you thinking about how important news was communicated authoritatively around the country in the days before newspapers, never mind the internet. And yes, it is ceremonial, but it gets you thinking about the challenges and value of the peaceful transfer of power.
The older I get the less cynical I become to these ceremonies and appreciate their practical value. I was raised Protestant and had a natural scepticism to all of the Catholic ceremony, and while I maintain that some aspects were money making schemes for the clergy, certain rituals, especially relating to the death of loved ones, are valuable contributions to the grieving process.
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Post by sph on Sept 12, 2022 16:24:47 GMT
Ceremonies and rituals have indeed been a part of human life since the beginning of time. They are still important to many, but I think we must also recognise in this day and age that they are a luxury, not a necessity. For example, if the King (or formerly, Queen) did not "officially" open Parliament each year, Parliament would not cease to exist. The country would still have to be run and people would have to continue in their jobs. Parliament would still open, one way or another.
I'm not saying we should necessarily get rid of such traditions, but we should recognise them as representing a lifestyle that is no longer lived. It is all a living museum piece, not a piece of the present day. But on the other hand, British history is very interesting and museums (whether living or not) are a fascinating way to look back.
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