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Post by jojo on Feb 24, 2021 16:08:58 GMT
Although not my favourite character, I was good to see how Roscoe's storyline got tied up and him making peace with his father and family. That speech in the hospital was pretty powerful, eh? Did that actor have a (physically) wandering eye? Then there was Ollie's parents; weren't the both wonderfully acted? Keeley Hawes was sensational! Processing all of the information handed to her, playing out on her face- the shock of finding out that her son was in the infectious disease ward, that he was so seriously ill, that he was gay and had AIDS. Some interesting camera angels following her down the hallway, and how in the blink of an eye she went from shock, anger, rage, stoic and upset. Also the confrontation with the woman in the kitchen making the squash. Isn't interesting that despite coming from a place of love, how a person like that does what she believes to be the right thing, and so focused that they're correct, that they can't see the damage they're causing. Really can't see the forest for the trees. We used to know a family like that. Sometimes they need to realise in time the error of their ways. And that final confrontation between the mother and Jill. I guess things had to be said..... Yes. Keeley's character was really interesting. Casting her kind-of gave the game away that she'd be involved in some powerful scenes at some point, but she and Dooley did a great job. It would be so easy to over-act. They'd made so many mistakes, and weren't presented as particularly sympathetic, but that doesn't mean that they didn't love their son. I'm too young to know whether or not it was reasonable for her not to have realised her son was gay in 1970s Isle of Wight. The school friend guessed, but once I made it to uni in the 90s and first got to know real life out gay people, we used to joke that there were no gay people in *insert hometown here*. There were the odd rumours (and not very nice jokes) about certain teachers, but I didn't know for sure that one of my friends was gay until I found them Facebook about ten years ago. I wasn't surprised by then, but at the time I took him at face value when he said he liked girls. Jill's big speech about shame was an interesting one. I think the content was fair, but pinning it all on the parents was a bit cruel, and felt like the speech was written long before they worked out how to include it in the story. The point about not being able to represent all AIDS stories is fair, but I thought the bit with Roscoe and his dad was a good way to allude to AIDS being a big problem in Africa too, and how the demographics of who was infected were different. This wasn't just about London and New York.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 24, 2021 16:47:02 GMT
Jill's speech was fully justified in that moment. She had been robbed of saying goodbye to her closest friend by a woman who was being spiteful.
Of course Jill wanted to lash out and hurt. Anyone in that situation would feel the same.
Of course this is a drama and so it was heightened for effect. But the central point about shame driving people to act against their own best interests and the interests of those around them was (and still is) a valid one. Not for everyone but for some.
Some people behave recklessly because they don't feel they deserve better. So they put themselves at risk because they feel worthless. Or they don't feel strong enough to stand up for themselves and agree to things they would not do if they had more self worth.
Jill was trying to hurt Valerie. And the reason it cut so deep is because there was a lot of truth to it.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 24, 2021 20:39:21 GMT
I watched a Literary Salon event with RTD recently and he alluded to the fact that some feminist writers have not liked the shame speech or the representation of ‘mothers’ in the series, and he made the point that the character of a Ritchie’s mum is meant to represent society generally and not just herself/women/mothers in that moment.
Though interestingly he did also say that if the series had been longer we’d have found out more about Ritchie’s family and why they are so dysfunctional (Aha! I knew there was something up with that family dynamic) and kind of implied that he had imagined some sexual abuse had gone on (by the grandfather mentioned as a terrible man? By the father who is so preoccupied with his son having sex?) but as he only had 5 episodes he never got that past the idea stage.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 24, 2021 20:44:04 GMT
There was one US review that complained that none of the characters of colour were given a tearjerking death. I am almost certain that if those same characters has been killed off the critic would have complained about those characters only existed to be victims. Yes there is a difference between US and UK attitudes regarding issues surrounding race. But here we had a TV series where 3 out the 5 central characters being played by actors of colour, it is surely something to acknowledge if not celebrate. It’s funny that none of the people I have seen complain have actually engaged meaningfully with the Roscoe or Ash characters in their criticism. Very little discussion of the Nigerian family dynamic shown - and Roscoe ends up being much closer to his family than Ritchie is, despite his initial dramatic exit.
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Post by steve10086 on Feb 24, 2021 21:17:04 GMT
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 24, 2021 21:28:29 GMT
I think it works well enough as it was broadcast. That 10 year period worked as strong framework for the action.
Perhaps there is a case for a one off episode at some point to catch up with the characters in later life. But I don't feel the need. It isn't a perfect piece of work but it is good enough not to need further elaboration.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 24, 2021 21:57:20 GMT
I’m mixed on this - I do feel like there’s an episode ‘missing’, in that I think it lacks what would normally be the resolution of a character arc. I did want to know what happened to Jill and Ash and Roscoe as time passed. I feel like there’s a stopping short.
But then again, I think that exact lack of resolution, that sense of it being cut short, is also really effective and powerful. After all lives being cut short prematurely is what the show is about! I think giving it a neat ‘happy’ ending in modern day would reduce its impact on the viewer.
So I think the ending works perfectly as it is and yet at the same time I would have liked more.
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Post by anthony40 on Feb 27, 2021 7:38:15 GMT
Did anyone see the reaction to the final episode on Gogglebox last night? Most of them watching were in tears.
It's worth watching the last 10 on Catch-up just to see it.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 1, 2021 8:23:22 GMT
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Post by dontdreamit on Mar 20, 2021 19:59:41 GMT
Just bumping this in case anyone is interested 🙂
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Post by inthenose on Apr 2, 2021 16:11:51 GMT
I finally got around to watching this and I have to say, it was absolutely brilliant. Really tugged at the heartstrings. Perhaps I am alone though in finding the lead character completely unsympathetic. **SPOILERS** **SPOILERS** **SPOILERS** When it is revealed that he knowingly infected others with the virus, and showed little to no sympathy for his actions, it really put the willies up me. Here is a character that is, potentially, a murderer. At best a dangerous criminal. (Real life precedent: www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-43807662) If it was spun differently, i.e. without having gotten to know the character as a loveable scamp, the story would actually be a seriously damning indictment of gay society in general, with dire implications. It would be the story about a serial killer - aided and abetted by friends, who did nothing to stop his spree.
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Post by hannechalk on Apr 3, 2021 11:06:36 GMT
If it was spun differently, i.e. without having gotten to know the character as a loveable scamp, the story would actually be a seriously damning indictment of gay society in general, with dire implications. It would be the story about a serial killer - aided and abetted by friends, who did nothing to stop his spree. His friends didn't know he was HIV+ until he told them - they didn't aid and abet. After he accepted it, he didn't carry on infecting others, if he had infected anyone at all. Your link to a news article didn't work for me, so I'm not sure how old it is, but there is a distinct difference between the start of people becoming aware of HIV and AIDS, and more recent cases where someone puts others knowingly at/in danger, with the knowledge there is about it now. Ritchie contemplated drinking battery acid, because he heard it might prevent/cure HIV, there is a whole section where he tries or contemplates allsorts of weird stuff. I'm not saying he was right, but he didn't understand what he was dealing with exactly in that era. They even said to each other at the start something along the lines of 'It's only in LA, it won't get here.'.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Apr 8, 2021 17:51:30 GMT
Just bumping this in case anyone is interested 🙂 Still have to watch this. And in a similar vein S2 of POSE - they're just released a trailer for the final season.
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Post by theatreian on May 12, 2021 13:21:44 GMT
For those who didn't see the Brit's attached is Elton and Olly singing It's A Sin.
It can be downloaded for Elton's Charity too.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 12, 2021 13:29:13 GMT
I blubbed throughout that performance. Even thinking about it is bringing tears to my eyes.
An iconic moment
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