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Post by talkingheads on May 7, 2020 8:54:00 GMT
Very stark words from Rufus Norris and Nica Burns, major West End producer. Even the National could go under by the end of the year without help.
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4,180 posts
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Post by HereForTheatre on May 7, 2020 9:21:23 GMT
I know we talk about theatre surviving but i think especially for regional theatres, even if they do, their programmes and work are going to be impacted for several years to come. If they survive they will still go a large chunk of the year, maybe the rest of it, with little to no income and that is what most small or regional theatres rely on and usually that will then be put back into their shows, projects and maintaining their buildings. If they aren't generating this income are they going to be able to put on shows they planned for next year? Or at least to the scale they were planning to? If not then that equals less income which puts them in dire straights again. It's a viscous circle. What about the work that these theatres do in their community or in arts education? Will there be the funds now to continue this at a time where it's already squeezed.
I understand the focus point being on the West End but those are the theatres that can survive when they have multi millionaire owners and producers and will still be able to put on shows at scale, less so for small or regional theatres across the country. I'm personally doing everything i can to support my local theatre because it's vital that not only does it survive, but that it can continue to do all the work that it normally would. Most of these venues only break even as it is. We've already seen one regional theatre go under this week.
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Post by Dawnstar on May 7, 2020 11:49:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 12:09:42 GMT
I'm hoping the pandemic may yield a reset in the seemingly endless race to higher-priced premium options and lead to a re-democratization of the overall experience in London and NYC, among other major arts locales. The pricing was going to be unsustainable at some point.
While I fully understand the real expenses involved, as well as union contracts for at least US Broadway productions, the idea that a show like Hamilton or Dear Evan Hansen is charging $300-$500 for basic orchestra seats in Chicago or NYC is just beyond the pale to me.
I love ambitious production values, but I have also seen an impressive amount of theatre with minimal sets and props, ones where the story and the acting compelled all my attention and imagination. Lower costs do not necessarily equate to lesser productions.
And perhaps, we'll also see digital offerings as an increasing part of the value chain and revenue mix for theaters. Smart companies right now could be intentionally testing pricing models and consumer reactions so that they are positioned to make strategic choices when in-person performances resume.
If nothing else, I'd love to see that every in-person ticket also comes with a code (included in the price or for a nominal add-on) for a one-time digital viewing whether you watch it yourself or provide the code to someone else.
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Post by Jon on May 7, 2020 13:01:04 GMT
Would the Government or Arts Council really let the National go under?
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Post by TallPaul on May 7, 2020 13:27:31 GMT
Would the Government or Arts Council really let the National go under? No, is the short answer. (Unless our lynette becomes chair of ACE, and even then the concrete is listed! 🙂)
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Post by basdfg on May 7, 2020 13:33:25 GMT
Would the Government or Arts Council really let the National go under? No, is the short answer. Through it might only be basic support to get a couple of productions up to raise money for more.
How popular is public funding for the arts - the amount of support will be to an extent dependent on public support for support to be given.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 13:34:44 GMT
Would the Government or Arts Council really let the National go under? No, is the short answer. Agree, although my speculation is that could be at the expense of one or more of the smaller subsidized theatres.
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5,160 posts
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Post by TallPaul on May 7, 2020 13:49:50 GMT
As I understand it, ACE has brought forward the next grant payment to its NPOs, which should help with cashflow in the short term.
And in the medium term, all current NPOs now have a degree of funding certainty until 31 March 2023, which is a year longer than was the plan pre-Covid.
So I suppose the key question is how long furloughing will continue.
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Post by clair on May 8, 2020 22:13:50 GMT
I love ambitious production values, but I have also seen an impressive amount of theatre with minimal sets and props, ones where the story and the acting compelled all my attention and imagination. Lower costs do not necessarily equate to lesser productions. One of the best things I saw last year was 'Islander' which I saw at Southwark having seen it in Edinburgh the summer before. Superb storytelling, totally drew me in both times and could not have been simpler. Shows like that would be a great way to start the industry up again, low costs would offset fewer people in the audience for social distancing and theatres get a chance to open slowly
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 9, 2020 5:42:26 GMT
Posts removed. Please stay on topic.
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Post by Dawnstar on May 9, 2020 10:50:38 GMT
Posts removed. Please stay on topic. I would just like to point out that my post, which has been removed, specifically commented on the news item in the two posts prior to mine in relation to its potential impact on theatregoing, so I'm not sure why my post is considered to have been off topic.
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Post by Mark on May 9, 2020 11:46:33 GMT
The lack of international tourism will basically close a large majority of West End shows. A horrendous decision to quarantine arrivals.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 12:40:32 GMT
Maybe government could buy out theatre buildings at favourable prices, preserving them for theatre use. Then they can rent them out to the companies that emerge, replacing those that have gone under. The demand will be smaller for a while but large cities should be able to support a large theatre alongside some studio spaces. Those employed in theatre would be able to get whatever work they can (no change there). What is likely to disappear is at the building level, the owners and operators of venues or companies with money sunk into aspects other than production/education work, but they are only one strata of the industry. It’s the same with shops or whatever, one store goes under and another takes its place if there’s a customer base for it.
On what shows, the particular issues with airborne transmission make this tough for theatres, choirs, orchestras with wind instruments and so on. That suggests no big chorus shows, maybe more guitar, bass, drums, keyboards style orchestrations, limited cast sizes for musicals (also necessary to pare down running costs). The fringe theatre model could be the base level starting point to take over larger spaces. The West End model may have to wait some time longer to return.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 13:25:58 GMT
The lack of international tourism will basically close a large majority of West End shows. A horrendous decision to quarantine arrivals. Yes that does seem incredibly strange. Well, at least the timing does. I mean, what is the point of asking people flying in to UK to quarantine for 14 days from June (so in the main after the repatriation effort rather than for it). Nobody would come for a holiday, or for business if they couldn’t start it for 14 days. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just say we can’t fly? And wait until it is safe before re-starting the aviation industry. They should have done this for repatriations March/April/May; not June! Not that opening in the Summer was going to be likely, but this won't help. I am interested that Joseph is still selling tickets. This does continue to give me a shred of hope that it might happen. Ditto Rent in Manchester. Really hope this will go ahead!
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3,321 posts
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Post by david on May 9, 2020 13:43:59 GMT
The lack of international tourism will basically close a large majority of West End shows. A horrendous decision to quarantine arrivals. Ditto Rent in Manchester. Really hope this will go ahead! I was wondering about Rent myself. I would of imagined info would being going out this month under normal circumstances for auditions so I wonder if there is going to be any announcement soon about the production going ahead or not? I would like to think that we might see it this year, but I am expecting another cancellation to be honest under the current climate.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 14:09:17 GMT
The lack of international tourism will basically close a large majority of West End shows. A horrendous decision to quarantine arrivals. Yes that does seem incredibly strange. Well, at least the timing does. I mean, what is the point of asking people flying in to UK to quarantine for 14 days from June (so in the main after the repatriation effort rather than for it). Nobody would come for a holiday, or for business if they couldn’t start it for 14 days. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just say we can’t fly? And wait until it is safe before re-starting the aviation industry. They should have done this for repatriations March/April/May; not June! Not that opening in the Summer was going to be likely, but this won't help. I am interested that Joseph is still selling tickets. This does continue to give me a shred of hope that it might happen. Ditto Rent in Manchester. Really hope this will go ahead! It will allow people such as overseas students to return. This is very important for the education sector where universities and even schools could go under without that income. It’s quite possible that the numbers will be badly reduced anyway, though, as students stay home.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 14:20:14 GMT
Yes that does seem incredibly strange. Well, at least the timing does. I mean, what is the point of asking people flying in to UK to quarantine for 14 days from June (so in the main after the repatriation effort rather than for it). Nobody would come for a holiday, or for business if they couldn’t start it for 14 days. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just say we can’t fly? And wait until it is safe before re-starting the aviation industry. They should have done this for repatriations March/April/May; not June! Not that opening in the Summer was going to be likely, but this won't help. I am interested that Joseph is still selling tickets. This does continue to give me a shred of hope that it might happen. Ditto Rent in Manchester. Really hope this will go ahead! It will allow people such as overseas students to return. This is very important for the education sector where universities and even schools could go under without that income. It’s quite possible that the numbers will be badly reduced anyway, though, as students stay home. Will international students really want to arrive two weeks early and pay for two weeks of extra accommodation though? Or will they be deemed to be self-isolating at school even if they mix with day scholars. I can't see how that is going to work except for schools which have 100% international pupils, all of whom board. As for theatre, it is a complete and utter disaster given how much it will discourage tourism further, never mind restrict foreign performers from coming here. I expect any show due to open before September at least (if not January 2021) that hasn't already cancelled will now do so.
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4,180 posts
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Post by HereForTheatre on May 9, 2020 14:28:06 GMT
It will allow people such as overseas students to return. This is very important for the education sector where universities and even schools could go under without that income. It’s quite possible that the numbers will be badly reduced anyway, though, as students stay home. Will international students really want to arrive two weeks early and pay for two weeks of extra accommodation though? Or will they be deemed to be self-isolating at school even if they mix with day scholars. I can't see how that is going to work except for schools which have 100% international pupils, all of whom board. As for theatre, it is a complete and utter disaster given how much it will discourage tourism further, never mind restrict foreign performers from coming here. I expect any show due to open before September at least (if not January 2021) that hasn't already cancelled will now do so. Any West End show, you mean. Regional theatres and even the fringe London venues don't rely on tourism. The lack of tourism won't have much impact on them at all and that's where we could see theatre still run.
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4,806 posts
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Post by Mark on May 9, 2020 14:34:28 GMT
I expect any show due to open before September at least (if not January 2021) that hasn't already cancelled will now do so. Any West End show, you mean. Regional theatres and even the fringe London venues don't rely on tourism. The lack of tourism won't have much impact on them at all and that's where we could see theatre still run. This. Shows which rely heavily on international tourists (Wicked comes immediately to mind, along with Phantom, Les Mis, Mousetrap, Mamma Mia) would suffer the most.
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 9, 2020 14:36:17 GMT
Is the impact of tourism over estimated, experience from seeing plays, might be different for musicals, as one who visits the Theatre excessively I rarely sat next to or near an overseas tourist and the ones I met were primarily Americans, the only exception being the Globe and some of the ‘star’ specials. If anything especially in the traditional West End Theatres it was people visiting London from the provinces and very rarely in my usual haunts of the National, Bridge, Almeida, Donmar, Park..... which are likely to get more visitors as we become nation bound. Also saw this article from From The New York Times: Will Socially Distanced Rehearsals Leave Space for Good Theater? One European director said guidelines intended to get actors back to work were “cuckoo.” Some will return only when coronavirus testing, or a vaccine, allows performers to get close. www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/theater/coronavirus-rehearsal-austria-germany.html?smid=em-share@burlybear feel free to remove if off topic as was not sure where to put the article now the post Covid thread has been rightly shut down.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 9, 2020 15:10:36 GMT
This thread was for speculation about cancellations, and since everything is currently cancelled it would seem to be redundant. I don’t think it’s the place to discuss tourism.
We have closed other threads about Covid-19 because some members can’t seem to stay on topic or resist the temptation to spread scare stories and misinformation.
As previously stated, discussion of the pandemic is not banned on this forum as long as it stays within these rules. If you want to start a thread to discuss the effect of covid on tourism and uk theatre that’s fine but if it veers off topic and into the obsessive trolling or arguing that we have seen before then it will get closed.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 17:06:22 GMT
It will allow people such as overseas students to return. This is very important for the education sector where universities and even schools could go under without that income. It’s quite possible that the numbers will be badly reduced anyway, though, as students stay home. Will international students really want to arrive two weeks early and pay for two weeks of extra accommodation though? Or will they be deemed to be self-isolating at school even if they mix with day scholars. I can't see how that is going to work except for schools which have 100% international pupils, all of whom board. As for theatre, it is a complete and utter disaster given how much it will discourage tourism further, never mind restrict foreign performers from coming here. I expect any show due to open before September at least (if not January 2021) that hasn't already cancelled will now do so. Arriving early would be the necessity, yes, and that they stay through the year as well, going home only in the summer. There is still a status that comes from having a British education but how much that is going to help, I don’t know. Have the big producers given any indication as to the reserves they have? Theatre owners with significant mortgage liabilities will be in trouble the earliest, I would imagine. The lower the running costs the better. Maybe we will see some start to offload theatres that they own, that will be a clear warning sign.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 17:19:53 GMT
This thread was for speculation about cancellations, and since everything is currently cancelled it would seem to be redundant. I don’t think it’s the place to discuss tourism Surely this is the best place to discuss tourism and in particular the potential impact that tourism restrictions could have on theatre and what does and doesn't get cancelled? That is what we're doing and it seems to me that falls squarely within the title of this thread.
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19,797 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 9, 2020 20:08:48 GMT
This thread was for speculation about cancellations, and since everything is currently cancelled it would seem to be redundant. I don’t think it’s the place to discuss tourism Surely this is the best place to discuss tourism and in particular the potential impact that tourism restrictions could have on theatre and what does and doesn't get cancelled? That is what we're doing and it seems to me that falls squarely within the title of this thread. No, I’m sorry but I don’t agree. This thread was started to discuss the productions that were potentially cancelled when the lockdown started. All of those productions are now cancelled. If you want to start a thread about tourism feel free. Then please try to keep that thread on topic. this thread is closed.
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