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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 11:06:15 GMT
I think the pair of them come off as hugely entitled and selfish. They could very easily wait until the Queen has gone to pull this one and in the meantime quietly “work to becoming self supporting” so that when they do bugger off to America they’ve got the financial means to cut ties. What theyre doing instead will be incredibly hurtful to the Queen who more than any of them understands what Royal duty means. They’re also cutting ties without apparently having the financial means to do so. So they swan off and do what they want, and we carry on paying for it. As someone said on the radiothis morning, you don’t leave the job and keep the company car. However there are very few jobs you are born into without any choice, and that when u hand in your notice people call u “entitled and selfish”. I say let them keep the car - fits well with their climate credentials!
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Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 11:09:43 GMT
I think the pair of them come off as hugely entitled and selfish. They could very easily wait until the Queen has gone to pull this one and in the meantime quietly “work to becoming self supporting” so that when they do bugger off to America they’ve got the financial means to cut ties. What theyre doing instead will be incredibly hurtful to the Queen who more than any of them understands what Royal duty means. They’re also cutting ties without apparently having the financial means to do so. So they swan off and do what they want, and we carry on paying for it. As someone said on the radiothis morning, you don’t leave the job and keep the company car. No, they can't. They literally cannot make a private income without first cutting financial ties in this way - they are legally prohibited from doing so. They are cutting ties so that 'we' are no longer paying for them. Not that 'we' ever really were - the Sovereign Grant is taken from the income of the Crown Estates, the 'Duchy of Cornwall' income is private family wealth. None of that comes from tax.
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Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 11:12:40 GMT
Any opinion held by Piers Morgan I feel duty bound to think the complete opposite. What he has described there is... the act of getting married. She hasn't abandoned anybody, it's called growing up, something he could do with doing at some point in his very sad little life. It's widely known she had cut all ties with her family and is only in contact with her mother though. Harry doesn't own her, Meghan isn't a possession that was passed from her father to her husband. She can have a relationship with her family if she choses to do so. Ghosting them isn't the act of getting married at all and frankly isn't what I'd call growing up. Lets not forget that there's now a baby involved in all this that has yet to meet his own grandfather. Some families are toxic. Cutting ties is necessary. Megan doesn't owe her father a relationship with her child. If Megan's father wants to meet his grandchild then he needs to behave differently.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 11:14:39 GMT
Makes little sense to me. Breaking away to focus on running (not just endorsing) your own charitable endeavours is one thing, taking a step backwards is a total other. They could have been together for years without getting married if she wanted to continue being an actress. But think about how much more she will be able to charge now she’s a princess!! A lot of people are saying they are gonna have to give up their HRH so will need a proper income me..... Whether they give up HRH status, they've already made a public claim to become financially independent. They'll probably setup various charities and employ themselves, taking an active role and gaining a wage that way... whilst using their platform to do exclusive interviews for various publications I suppose. I don't see them courting attention (unless it's for a price for their charities) but I don't think life is going to be as quiet as I think they might think - they're fair game now they've stepped back from royal duties. All that said, there is no reason why they cannot appear at family events and support the monarchy. From what they've said they aren't retiring from public life like Prince Philip, and nothing suggests they won't (or cant) be involved in ceremonial events. It's not like they're saying they won't be at Charles' coronation or never step out onto the balcony with the family again. They just won't be doing the work of a senior royal. Fair enough I suppose, the royal family work damn hard - wasn't it reported that the Princess Royal did something like 500 engagements in just under 100 countries in one calendar year? I know some argue that's not work, but it's a lot of time honouring, acknowledging and supporting what are usually charities and noble causes. It's just Harry and Meghan want to focus on their own, not be given a list to embrace.
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 9, 2020 11:15:27 GMT
Any opinion held by Piers Morgan I feel duty bound to think the complete opposite. What he has described there is... the act of getting married. She hasn't abandoned anybody, it's called growing up, something he could do with doing at some point in his very sad little life. It's widely known she had cut all ties with her family and is only in contact with her mother though. Harry doesn't own her, Meghan isn't a possession that was passed from her father to her husband. She can have a relationship with her family if she choses to do so. Ghosting them isn't the act of getting married at all and frankly isn't what I'd call growing up. Lets not forget that there's now a baby involved in all this that has yet to meet his own grandfather. As I understand it wasn't it only her father she cut ties with? And her friends came to her wedding so she must still be in some semblance of contact with them. To be honest I couldn't care less about the royals, let them live their damn lives and let us all just get on with ours.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 9, 2020 11:15:48 GMT
Any opinion held by Piers Morgan I feel duty bound to think the complete opposite. What he has described there is... the act of getting married. She hasn't abandoned anybody, it's called growing up, something he could do with doing at some point in his very sad little life. It's widely known she had cut all ties with her family and is only in contact with her mother though. Harry doesn't own her, Meghan isn't a possession that was passed from her father to her husband. She can have a relationship with her family if she choses to do so. Ghosting them isn't the act of getting married at all and frankly isn't what I'd call growing up. Lets not forget that there's now a baby involved in all this that has yet to meet his own grandfather. No, that’s a lie invented by those deranged “Megziteer” blogs and by the tabloid press. She’s close to her maternal family (several of her maternal relatives were at the wedding) and to a couple of her paternal nieces. The letter her dad sold to the press as well as some of his own interviews confirm that he was the one who ghosted her when she stopped giving him money, and that she spent weeks or months repeatedly phoning him and leaving voicemails begging him to talk to her, and that she arranged plane tickets which he refused to use. He only stopped ghosting her when she stopped trying. He’s clearly an abuser and a deeply toxic individual. How many decades should a woman keep trying to manage an abusive family member? Don’t forget Meghan’s dad was/is estranged from all his children from both his families and has never met any of his grandchildren including his adult grandchildren. Clearly Meghan is not the problem here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 11:23:36 GMT
It's widely known she had cut all ties with her family and is only in contact with her mother though. Harry doesn't own her, Meghan isn't a possession that was passed from her father to her husband. She can have a relationship with her family if she choses to do so. Ghosting them isn't the act of getting married at all and frankly isn't what I'd call growing up. Lets not forget that there's now a baby involved in all this that has yet to meet his own grandfather. Some families are toxic. Cutting ties is necessary. Megan doesn't owe her father a relationship with her child. If Megan's father wants to meet his grandchild then he needs to behave differently. I agree. I didn't say she wasn't justified... just answering the question on how some people view it as abandoning her family. We all know family can be impossible at times, but it looks like Meghan gave up her entire world to step into Harry's (and lets face it, she did) and now they're both walking away from that. They have isolated themselves whilst - lets face it - still being in their honeymoon period. As someone said earlier, this could have all waited until the Queen had died (which presumably will take place within the next decade), started doing the legwork behind the scenes and announced it as part of Charles' inevitable shakeup of royal duties when he becomes king.
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Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 11:26:46 GMT
Don’t forget Meghan’s dad was/is estranged from all his children from both his families and has never met any of his grandchildren including his adult grandchildren. Clearly Meghan is not the problem here. There's this strange societal desire to place parents on a pedestal - I guess we all have 'honour thy mother and father' drummed into us. Becoming a parent does not infer some magical quality on you that overcomes all of your flaws and makes you a decent person. Some parents are terrible. Some parents shouldn't be allowed to have contact with their children because they make their lives a misery. Just being biologically related to someone doesn't give them the right to demand a social relationship with you.
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 9, 2020 11:32:13 GMT
I find it difficult to not conflate things. I guess the historical context is this is the first generation (not just the occasional individual) that openly questions 'duty'. The Queen convinced herself that her reign was ordained by God. I would think it's the only way to get through. As the grandson's have said, they didn't ask for this.
You might almost argue - perhaps for their own child - this is Harry and MM putting their case for republicanism.
And then there is MM herself. The bride with no one to walk her up the aisle, with no friends at her wedding save the cast from her most recent tv show. At Christmas they left family, UK and LA, to go to .. Canada? I even found myself pondering why she wouldn't go and support/see Death of a Salesman at the Piccadilly (given Wendall Pierce was her tv father for a number of years). It would have been so easy and kind (Pierce did invite her, by letter).
Then there's the media and its own spun agendas.
Who knows .. does look like things have broken down though, and there is a lot of mistrust. MM has certainly won the battle for Harry.
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Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 11:38:19 GMT
Some families are toxic. Cutting ties is necessary. Megan doesn't owe her father a relationship with her child. If Megan's father wants to meet his grandchild then he needs to behave differently. I agree. I didn't say she wasn't justified... just answering the question on how some people view it as abandoning her family. We all know family can be impossible at times, but it looks like Meghan gave up her entire world to step into Harry's (and lets face it, she did) and now they're both walking away from that. They have isolated themselves whilst - lets face it - still being in their honeymoon period. As someone said earlier, this could have all waited until the Queen had died (which presumably will take place within the next decade), started doing the legwork behind the scenes and announced it as part of Charles' inevitable shakeup of royal duties when he becomes king. Except they are clearly being made miserable now. So, no, they couldn't do that. I honestly find the furore a bit baffling. The press keep claiming that The Royals have to put up with how they are treated because they get 'public money'. So members of the Royal family say, ok, we won't take 'public money', because we don't like how you treat us. Therefore we are no longer going to cooperate with you. I understand exactly why the press are throwing their toys out of the pram, but I don't know why anyone else is bothered! It's not like they're even going to restrict access to the public - in fact, we're likely going to get more out of them via social media because it won't have to be given to the press they so clearly despise first. They're still going to carry out any royal duties that are requested of them. What was the realistic alternative? Them privately putting up with it and ending up with all the problems people develop when they are miserable and feel like they have no control over their lives? Them getting divorced? Does anyone - other than the press and the odd racist - really want that?
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 9, 2020 11:39:59 GMT
And then there is MM herself. The bride with no one to walk her up the aisle, with no friends at her wedding save the cast from her most recent tv show. Several of her maternal relatives and her entire college “gang” (her sorority sisters) were at the wedding, as were tons of friends she’d known since she first started out as a struggling actress. One of her fanblogs has a list with photos of them there. One of her oldest friends from childhood sat next to her mum, and her daughters who are Meghan’s goddaughters were bridesmaids. Her makeup for the wedding was done by one of her oldest friends. It’s honestly disturbing how people spread such blatant lies about her. She spent Christmas in Canada because that was her home for many years and presumably where many of her friends are. Her mum was with them so not sure what your point is?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 11:40:09 GMT
. At Christmas they left family, UK and LA, to go to .. Canada? I even found myself pondering why she wouldn't go and support/see Death of a Salesman at the Piccadilly (given Wendall Pierce was her tv father for a number of years). It would have been so easy and kind. Er...... didnt they go to Canada to visit her mum? I guess she wanted to hang with a real relative rather than someone who pretended to be....?
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Post by sf on Jan 9, 2020 12:05:26 GMT
At Christmas they left family, UK and LA, to go to .. Canada? So what? I didn't see any of my family on Christmas Day this year. I went to Heathrow, got on a plane, and flew to Japan. They're adults, her mother lives across the Atlantic and Meghan has spent time living in Toronto, they are entitled to make their own choices.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 12:45:54 GMT
I agree. I didn't say she wasn't justified... just answering the question on how some people view it as abandoning her family. We all know family can be impossible at times, but it looks like Meghan gave up her entire world to step into Harry's (and lets face it, she did) and now they're both walking away from that. They have isolated themselves whilst - lets face it - still being in their honeymoon period. As someone said earlier, this could have all waited until the Queen had died (which presumably will take place within the next decade), started doing the legwork behind the scenes and announced it as part of Charles' inevitable shakeup of royal duties when he becomes king. Except they are clearly being made miserable now. So, no, they couldn't do that. I honestly find the furore a bit baffling. The press keep claiming that The Royals have to put up with how they are treated because they get 'public money'. So members of the Royal family say, ok, we won't take 'public money', because we don't like how you treat us. Therefore we are no longer going to cooperate with you. I understand exactly why the press are throwing their toys out of the pram, but I don't know why anyone else is bothered! It's not like they're even going to restrict access to the public - in fact, we're likely going to get more out of them via social media because it won't have to be given to the press they so clearly despise first. They're still going to carry out any royal duties that are requested of them. What was the realistic alternative? Them privately putting up with it and ending up with all the problems people develop when they are miserable and feel like they have no control over their lives? Them getting divorced? Does anyone - other than the press and the odd racist - really want that? Actually no, I have to disagree with this. Both Meghan and Harry knew exactly what was expected of them when they married. Meghan was happy to move across the ocean, give up acting and dedicate herself to public service. Harry has had a lifetime to understand what was expected of him and could have stepped back at any time. Instead, he asked Meghan to join him on the journey he had already embarked on and together they agreed to that life. I don't mind taxes going to the royal family at all, but the tax payer funded (I don't remember the split) their wedding and over £2 million allowing them to do up their UK home. Now they're supposedly going to split their time living else where in the world and only use their UK base occasionally. They have been married for less than two years, had millions of public funding and have basically announced they are stepping away from the senior role that afforded them the tax payer funding in the first place. I accept that the press has been intrusive, but again, this was to be expected when they both decided to marry. It has always been a given that no matter who Harry married, the world's press (and especially the UK media) would go through every single aspect of her life and find whatever they could. They did it with Diana, they did it with Camilla and they did it with Kate. But as with all three, time, service and dedication to the crown pays off and you win the media and the public over. You put the work in. Meghan and Harry haven't done that over the last two years. They have called out the media in quite harsh terms and expect the media to take the scolding with grace (I'm not saying it wasn't justified, but talk about prodding the bear). They have done very little in the way of engagements and, yes, maternity leave is absolutely fine for royals too, but realistically I think most people expected Meghan to adapt and throw herself into British life and British culture. That is what she signed up and failed to deliver. I've nothing against them stepping away or becoming financially independent. It's more about how they've gone about it and the timing of it all. They have both commented about how the press have made them unhappy but you know what? Stop reading it, keep calm and carry on.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 9, 2020 13:10:23 GMT
They have both commented about how the press have made them unhappy but you know what? Stop reading it, keep calm and carry on. Worked well for his Mum, letting the press get what they wanted, didn't it?
This all comes back to Diana and how she was used, abused and hounded to her death. If William still wants to play that dangerous game, it appears that Harry is prepared to do differently.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 9, 2020 13:13:43 GMT
Members of a Neo Nazi group went to prison for making death threats against them and for inciting racial hatred. Meghan’s own half-sister has been put on Scotland Yard’s Fixated Persons list. Both the Daily Mail and the Sun have admitted to inventing stories about them. And that’s just what we’re aware of, it’s probably the tip of the iceberg.
Let’s not pretend this is just a few nasty comments online they can and should ignore. No one should have to ignore the obsessive hatred and abuse and outright racism Meghan has faced.
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Post by stefy69 on Jan 9, 2020 13:16:42 GMT
Can't believe people find this interesting when there are fires in Australia near-war in the middle east Ho hum I'm obviously out of touch with the pulse,.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 13:27:37 GMT
Can't believe people find this interesting when there are fires in Australia near-war in the middle east Ho hum I'm obviously out of touch with the pulse,..... And....yet.....you decided to come onto the thread, read it and comment?! Shouldn’t you be putting out fires or something?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 9, 2020 13:30:56 GMT
Maybe we should rethink the Lidl day cream thread.... 😁
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 9, 2020 13:32:49 GMT
Maybe we should rethink the Lidl day cream thread.... 😁 There's no harm in putting out fires while looking fresh.
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Post by stefy69 on Jan 9, 2020 13:43:35 GMT
Can't believe people find this interesting when there are fires in Australia near-war in the middle east Ho hum I'm obviously out of touch with the pulse,..... And....yet.....you decided to come onto the thread, read it and comment?! Shouldn’t you be putting out fires or something? Sarcasm ? wow you must be having a boring day !
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 13:45:54 GMT
And....yet.....you decided to come onto the thread, read it and comment?! Shouldn’t you be putting out fires or something? Sarcasm ? wow you must be having a boring day ! I thought u called me a Mormon for a second there.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 13:54:57 GMT
They have both commented about how the press have made them unhappy but you know what? Stop reading it, keep calm and carry on. Worked well for his Mum, letting the press get what they wanted, didn't it?
This all comes back to Diana and how she was used, abused and hounded to her death. If William still wants to play that dangerous game, it appears that Harry is prepared to do differently.
Diana was no longer HRH, courted the press and used them to her advantage in her divorce. It then became a monster she couldn't control. That's what I actually think might happen here - by doing away with the existing model (that actually offers a large amount of privacy) they're creating an open season: they'll become 'fair game'. Just because they might opt to work with certain publications of their own choosing, doesn't mean the rest will leave them alone... far from it. The more you try to control the press the more of an animal it will become.
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Post by duncan on Jan 9, 2020 15:21:09 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 15:23:50 GMT
Why do people keep going on about the Frogmore cottage renovation? This has been answered a million times. It's part of historic royal palaces, owned by the Queen, she has a responsibility to maintain it, and the maintenance was due anyway. They didn't get £2m spent on them, the Queen spent it on routine maintenance.
Then then paid for their own redecoration, fixtures and fittings. They are tenants of the Queen - the Queen still owns the property.
As for the wedding - can you imagine the howls of outrage if it had not been a big public affair? If they'd eloped and married in secret? (The only way to avoid it costing a fortune in security arrangements). The press would have been livid. We certainly had a massive boost to visitor numbers due to it, and a whole bunch of British business made money out of it.
We didn't 'pay for them to get married', we paid for a huge public event that promoted the country around the world. It's really, really stupid to claim that was a benefit to them - I'd bet anything they'd have had a lot more fun if they could have had a private wedding.
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 9, 2020 15:33:58 GMT
It's almost like Panto season. Pass the face cream, Matron.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 9, 2020 15:36:37 GMT
I think the pair of them come off as hugely entitled and selfish. They could very easily wait until the Queen has gone to pull this one and in the meantime quietly “work to becoming self supporting” so that when they do bugger off to America they’ve got the financial means to cut ties. What theyre doing instead will be incredibly hurtful to the Queen who more than any of them understands what Royal duty means. They’re also cutting ties without apparently having the financial means to do so. So they swan off and do what they want, and we carry on paying for it. As someone said on the radiothis morning, you don’t leave the job and keep the company car. No, they can't. They literally cannot make a private income without first cutting financial ties in this way - they are legally prohibited from doing so. They are cutting ties so that 'we' are no longer paying for them. Not that 'we' ever really were - the Sovereign Grant is taken from the income of the Crown Estates, the 'Duchy of Cornwall' income is private family wealth. None of that comes from tax. I’ve looked this up and everything Ive found says that the sovereign grant is what the government pays to the royal family, and that this amounts to about 65p per uk tax payer.
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Post by vdcni on Jan 9, 2020 15:46:50 GMT
It's based on revenues from the Crown Estates which is public money but not directly taxpayers money.
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Post by kathryn on Jan 9, 2020 16:04:34 GMT
Yup. Crown owns Crown Estate. Crown hands the revenue of Crown Estate to the government, government hand a percentage of those revenues back for upkeep of monarchy - including all the historic Royal Palaces (at the moment it’s 25% because of the cost of Buckingham Palace being renovated, it would usually be a lot less than that), art collections, funding the offices of the working Royals and covering their living expenses. Harry and Megan only ever had 5% of their office expenses covered by Sovereign grant - but that meant they could not make private income from work. The rest covered by Harry’s inheritance from Princess Di and the Duchy of Cornwall - which is private wealth the same as any other aristocrats, generated by rents and business activities.
Tax payers cover security separately. Total cost of the monarchy is £1 per taxpayer per year.
The monarchy generates considerably more than that to GDP via tourism and business opportunities, etc, not to mention the international ‘soft power’ influence that they have. Particularly important for political links with the Commonwealth.
If the monarchy were ever abolished there would be a very nasty legal fight to be had over the Crown Estate, because of there’s no Crown then who owns it? The government would have no claim legally on any of the Duchy revenues - legally it is private property.
This is why I am confident they could earn more from professional work than they are getting from SG - they weren’t getting much to start with. They can’t personally do anything about their security cost other than take practical steps to keep it low - they are not going to stop being at risk. If they were successfully attacked, e.g. by terrorist organisations looking to make a statement, there would an absolutely massive fall-out. I mean, can you imagine? It’ll cost a lot less to provide security for them at Windsor than at any private residence they bought for themselves elsewhere, so Frogmore is actually very practical and cost-effective from that point of view.
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Post by lynette on Jan 9, 2020 17:10:30 GMT
My concern is their safety. Think about it. Diana killed in Paris, John Lennon as example of high profile person murdered in New York. I think they would be safer in London. They are gonna need vigorous security in our present world.
Second siblings in the R F not done well recently. Margaret no role, lost it, Andrew no comment, the Queen's own dad was messed up having to become number 1 when he was comfortable as a number 2. Harry is sixth in line, he ain’t gonna be king. The Queen has shown with the recent photos and appearances that she and Charles are all for the direct line only. Cousins out of it and Harry and Meghan would be suffering for not much, more importantly their kids would be suffering. Anne let her kids disengage and they are happy and I believe solvent.
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