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Post by Dawnstar on Mar 7, 2021 21:59:59 GMT
If Diana and Fergie (who were raised around aristocracy and royalty) were blindsided by what to expect and had trouble fitting in, I don't find it hard to believe that an American would be even more so. I would hope that having learned their lesson from those experiences, The Firm (both the family and the courtiers) would have tried to brace Meghan for what was to come (and all the rules and restrictions she'd be expected to follow). But when you're young and in love, you tend to think, "oh, it won't be that bad...". Until it is. There might have been good reasons why past royal families tended to marry other royal families... they knew what to expect and how to handle it (that was the women's 'jobs' and they'd generally been trained to it from childhood). That was a different era, before the age of digital media and social media. And both of their experiences are well publicised now, plus Kate had joined the Royal Family not that long before Meghan. It's naive in the extreme to think that Meghan didn't have a wealth of resources to tell her exactly what it would be like and what she would be giving up. She may have blinded by love into thinking she wouldn't have the same experience, but at the end of the day it was her free choice and she must have known what she was marrying into, or else a product of her own naivety or lack of research.
I also find the Diana/Meghan comparison in terms of marrying into the Royal family unconvincing because of the difference in ages. Diana was married when she was barely 20, whereas Meghan was 36. Surely a woman of 36, and especially one who had some experience of the media as an actress, must have had a much better idea of what she was letting herself in for than a girl of 20 would have done, even one who came from an aristocratic family.
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Post by londonpostie on Mar 7, 2021 22:41:58 GMT
James Hewitt enters the chat .. I can't find anything online... has he voiced an opinion on Meghan? Or is it the story about him being a gardener in Devon? It just an oblique response to someone saying something about Archie won't ever know his grandparents. |
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Post by londonpostie on Mar 7, 2021 22:45:08 GMT
Diana was a 20-ish kindergarden assistant whose idea of seeing the world was a trip south of the river. I think we're in slightly different territory here.
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 8, 2021 0:47:48 GMT
The marriage to Diana, was important and symbolic to the royal family, however love must never part of the deal.
She was beautiful and therefore great bloodstock for the royal family. Diana got swept up with the Idea of being a future princess/queen, although she was very beautiful, she wasn’t very intelligent and really a very sick person mentally, her fame exasperated this.
It was an arranged marriage in all but name.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 2:09:41 GMT
One thing to remember as details of the interview emerge, the Duchess of Sussex is an experienced actress.
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Post by paddy72 on Mar 8, 2021 2:43:55 GMT
Gaw’d Megan. You’re only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 8:59:44 GMT
The skin colour conversation I’ll reserve judgement on until I see how it’s explained on screen, but if you come from a white family I don’t know that it’s an inappropriate question if it’s asked out of ignorance and interest and not from a place of malice. No. Even as someone who is white and from an entirely white family I cannot envisage any circumstance where that question or conversation is appropriate for the white person to ask/start. If any white person is curious or ignorant of those type of issues, we must do own research, not ask an offensive question that in any circumstance could easily be misinterpreted. To do so is white privilege and shouldn't happen. From what I've read the rest sounds like Meghan has suffered from her own naivety (how could you not know that you curtesy to any monarch, let alone the Queen? Every American will have heard of Michelle Obama's experience with protocol at least!) and that they are at least to some extent bitter about being cut off financially (what did they expect?), none of which I have much sympathy for at all. And revealing the gender of their child on a TV interview smacks of being desperate for publicity. But the racist comment/question is something they should have called out a long time ago, rather than storing up for Oprah. Sadly it is not something that surprises me about the Royal Family and I can pretty much guess who the most likely culprits are. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 8, 2021 9:05:35 GMT
Come on this interview tonight surely cannot go bad, when was the last time a royal did an interview and it went horrible wrong? Prince Andrew talking about his trip to Pizza Express |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 10:02:41 GMT
The rules about which royal babies gets to be a Prince or Princess were set by George V. Yes there have been some deviations from those rules over the years but the fundamental rules have not been altered.
The most frustrating part of this for me is that most of the allegations made cannot be directly answered by those who were said to have acted badly or inappropriately. It is very easy to make allegations when you know that those you are calling out aren't in a position to respond.
Of course everyone is free to chart their own way through life as best they can. No-one should be forced to stay in circumstances where they are unhappy.
But if you are joining an institution with a very particular way of operating then you do so with your eyes open. It is not as if any of the issues around lack of personal freedom for Royals are unknown. Even before The Crown, details about the way 'The Firm' operates have been circulating for years. Is it a healthy way of living? Almost certainly not. But you have to do your own work before making the commitment to become part of it.
Any actor who wishes to succeed in a role has to read the script, do the research and talk to the director and other creatives.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 10:28:18 GMT
The skin colour conversation I’ll reserve judgement on until I see how it’s explained on screen, but if you come from a white family I don’t know that it’s an inappropriate question if it’s asked out of ignorance and interest and not from a place of malice. No. Even as someone who is white and from an entirely white family I cannot envisage any circumstance where that question or conversation is appropriate for the white person to ask/start. If any white person is curious or ignorant of those type of issues, we must do own research, not ask an offensive question that in any circumstance could easily be misinterpreted. To do so is white privilege and shouldn't happen. From what I've read the rest sounds like Meghan has suffered from her own naivety (how could you not know that you curtesy to any monarch, let alone the Queen? Every American will have heard of Michelle Obama's experience with protocol at least!) and that they are at least to some extent bitter about being cut off financially (what did they expect?), none of which I have much sympathy for at all. And revealing the gender of their child on a TV interview smacks of being desperate for publicity. But the racist comment/question is something they should have called out a long time ago, rather than storing up for Oprah. Sadly it is not something that surprises me about the Royal Family and I can pretty much guess who the most likely culprits are. My parents are white, I am, my sister is. Her partner is Asian and their child is 6 months old now. Never in any way during her pregnancy was skin tone discussed. That child is human regardless. I can't believe what I've read here. To even think about justifying families discussing their unborn child's race as a point of ignorance is disgusting. The royals are a long lineage of white colonial elite stuck in their echo chamber. Racism is bound to be an institutional issue within the Royal Family, be it conscious or unconscious. The entire existence of the Monarchy is a result of their exploitation of People of Colour. Furthermore, I'm deeply troubled that others here feel it necessary to disparage the contents of the interview, insinuating this is lies and acting before they've even watched it. These kind of comments from various members here are fundamentally the foundations of white supremacism. Belittle the minority in defence of white power. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2021 11:03:21 GMT
The rules about which royal babies gets to be a Prince or Princess were set by George V. Yes there have been some deviations from those rules over the years but the fundamental rules have not been altered. The most frustrating part of this for me is that most of the allegations made cannot be directly answered by those who were said to have acted badly or inappropriately. It is very easy to make allegations when you know that those you are calling out aren't in a position to respond. Of course everyone is free to chart their own way through life as best they can. No-one should be forced to stay in circumstances where they are unhappy. But if you are joining an institution with a very particular way of operating then you do so with your eyes open. It is not as if any of the issues around lack of personal freedom for Royals are unknown. Even before The Crown, details about the way 'The Firm' operates have been circulating for years. Is it a healthy way of living? Almost certainly not. But you have to do your own work before making the commitment to become part of it. Any actor who wishes to succeed in a role has to read the script, do the research and talk to the director and other creatives. You think she is acting? Is Harry acting also? |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 11:13:00 GMT
The revelation that they actually got married 3 days ahead of the Royal Wedding is easy enough to prove or disprove
All wedding certificates are placed in the public domain within 18 months of the event IIRC.
So I trust that a journalist is requesting that documentation. It only costs £7 for a pdf copy.
I do understand the desire for having a private celebration of your relationship. But if the Royal Wedding was, if effect, just a blessing then I can understand why people would feel confused/a little let down. It was a huge national and international event.
The truth on this will emerge. For a wedding to be legal, there have to be witnesses and there is a paper trail.
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Post by Jan on Mar 8, 2021 11:28:39 GMT
The skin colour conversation I’ll reserve judgement on until I see how it’s explained on screen, but if you come from a white family I don’t know that it’s an inappropriate question if it’s asked out of ignorance and interest and not from a place of malice. No. Even as someone who is white and from an entirely white family I cannot envisage any circumstance where that question or conversation is appropriate for the white person to ask/start. If any white person is curious or ignorant of those type of issues, we must do own research, not ask an offensive question that in any circumstance could easily be misinterpreted. To do so is white privilege and shouldn't happen. If you buy into the white privilege argument then you as a white person shouldn't even be commenting on that issue, it is not for you to deem what is "offensive" or "appropriate". |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2021 11:34:22 GMT
No. Even as someone who is white and from an entirely white family I cannot envisage any circumstance where that question or conversation is appropriate for the white person to ask/start. If any white person is curious or ignorant of those type of issues, we must do own research, not ask an offensive question that in any circumstance could easily be misinterpreted. To do so is white privilege and shouldn't happen. If you buy into the white privilege argument then you as a white person shouldn't even be commenting on that issue, it is not for you to deem what is "offensive" or "appropriate". Who does decide on offensiveness and appropriateness? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 11:58:33 GMT
No. Even as someone who is white and from an entirely white family I cannot envisage any circumstance where that question or conversation is appropriate for the white person to ask/start. If any white person is curious or ignorant of those type of issues, we must do own research, not ask an offensive question that in any circumstance could easily be misinterpreted. To do so is white privilege and shouldn't happen. If you buy into the white privilege argument then you as a white person shouldn't even be commenting on that issue, it is not for you to deem what is "offensive" or "appropriate". If you take that view you are perpetuating the problem. It really doesn't require a huge amount of thought to realise that any question about someone's skin colour might be considered inappropriate by someone of a different racial background and to choose to do your own research rather than asking the question. That is not me making any sort of judgment on what IS offensive or inappropriate, but on what MIGHT be (though in this case it is blindingly obvious that it is in any context) and choosing accordingly not to ask the question. I am choosing not to put someone of different racial heritage in a position that may be uncomfortable to them - it is not my place to decide that they should have to tolerate that when the topic is race. If they want to start that conversation then it is an entirely different scenario as that is their right, not mine. If anything else it is just basic politeness and consideration for someone else who is in a situation that because of my racial background I cannot possibly fully understand. But my responsibility is to learn about it in a respectful way, not expect that I can find out by asking questions no-one would ever dream or asking a white person. And the generational argument is no excuse. There is no excuse for any level of racism, whether deliberately or not. I'm astonished at some of the responses I have read on here and elsewhere following this interview. It's sad to see the extent that lack of racial understanding and compassion are still a huge problem. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 8, 2021 12:03:11 GMT
Posts removed, thread temporarily locked.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 14:37:10 GMT
I note two "clarifications" thus far:
1 - the wedding 3 days before the Royal Wedding was a private exchange of personal vows. So the Royal Wedding was the real thing. There is nothing at all wrong with doing that. Or even viewing it as the key point in your relationship. But it was not a wedding.
2 - assuring everyone that it wasn't the Queen or Duke of Edinburgh who were alleged to have asked racist questions.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2021 16:29:02 GMT
I note two "clarifications" thus far: 1 - the wedding 3 days before the Royal Wedding was a private exchange of personal vows. So the Royal Wedding was the real thing. There is nothing at all wrong with doing that. Or even viewing it as the key point in your relationship. But it was not a wedding. 2 - assuring everyone that it wasn't the Queen or Duke of Edinburgh who were alleged to have asked racist questions. Philip was far too obvious wasn't it. I'm going a generation below |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 16:51:02 GMT
I really don't like people who make serious allegations whilst at the same time creating speculation as to who did the thing bring alleged by keeping the identity secret yet at the same time giving hints.
If you don't feel able to name and shame in public then you should keep it private and deal with it in other ways.
Racist attitudes should be called out. But the way this has been handled is wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2021 17:13:00 GMT
1 - the wedding 3 days before the Royal Wedding was a private exchange of personal vows. So the Royal Wedding was the real thing. There is nothing at all wrong with doing that. Or even viewing it as the key point in your relationship. But it was not a wedding. Perhaps it was a wedding to them. A wedding doesn't have to be legally binding. Indeed, there are two large sections of society (mixed race/mixed caste (depending on the part of the world) and same sex couples) who for years in some parts of the world and even today in others were not able legally to have a wedding, so in terms of commitment to each other could do no more than have a private exchange of vows - that was/is their wedding. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2021 18:02:54 GMT
I really don't like people who make serious allegations whilst at the same time creating speculation as to who did the thing bring alleged by keeping the identity secret yet at the same time giving hints. If you don't feel able to name and shame in public then you should keep it private and deal with it in other ways. Racist attitudes should be called out. But the way this has been handled is wrong. Can only hope it wakes some people up and gets a bigger conversation going. Fair play to Harry and Meghan for getting out and for speaking out, I think it is a better way than naming who said something that is pretty horrendous. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 18:14:04 GMT
I really don't like people who make serious allegations whilst at the same time creating speculation as to who did the thing bring alleged by keeping the identity secret yet at the same time giving hints. If you don't feel able to name and shame in public then you should keep it private and deal with it in other ways. Racist attitudes should be called out. But the way this has been handled is wrong. Can only hope it wakes some people up and gets a bigger conversation going. Fair play to Harry and Meghan for getting out and for speaking out, I think it is a better way than naming who said something that is pretty horrendous. They have expressed it in a way that has caused speculation about people who have said nothing at all on this topic. We have already seen one 'clarification' but that has just caused the speculation to shift onto others. Causing hurt to others is not the way to recover from hurt done to you. And this way of revealing what was said feels calculated to cause maximum hurt rather than tackling it in a more direct manner. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Mar 8, 2021 19:36:24 GMT
Can only hope it wakes some people up and gets a bigger conversation going. Fair play to Harry and Meghan for getting out and for speaking out, I think it is a better way than naming who said something that is pretty horrendous. They have expressed it in a way that has caused speculation about people who have said nothing at all on this topic. We have already seen one 'clarification' but that has just caused the speculation to shift onto others. Causing hurt to others is not the way to recover from hurt done to you. And this way of revealing what was said feels calculated to cause maximum hurt rather than tackling it in a more direct manner. Prefer that is done behind closed doors. Can't believe you wanted the hand grenade to be a nuke really |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 8, 2021 19:58:46 GMT
I have never said it should have been done in public. I have consistently said that this matter should have been kept out of public sphere.
They have made a difficult situation worse by effectively teasing the allegations.
If they felt they had to go public, then they should have gone fully public.
Their chosen path has made things worse for everyone.
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Post by marob on Mar 8, 2021 20:08:00 GMT
Have only seen a few clips used on the news, but fair play to him for condemning the racism that is stoked by the mostly right wing media in this country.
But I wish this had been with an interviewer who would ask them about the double standards they seem to have. Starting with something like “hang on, didn’t you have to apologise for dressing as a Nazi? And calling people ‘r*g heads’ and ‘P*kis.?”
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