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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 13:46:31 GMT
To be fair, Shenton is basically paid for his forceful, opinionated views. If he was writing wishy-washy, middle-of-the-road reviews/blogs, nobody would read them - or at least, not for long!
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Post by kathryn on Apr 24, 2016 14:07:58 GMT
Agreed - just look at Mark Kermode, famous for his rants about films he hates.
Neither of them can force the public to agree with them, though - BILB hasn't lasted and there's no shortage of Transformers films....
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Post by Jon on Apr 24, 2016 17:19:32 GMT
Agreed - just look at Mark Kermode, famous for his rants about films he hates. Neither of them can force the public to agree with them, though - BILB hasn't lasted and there's no shortage of Transformers films.... Kermode has quite eclectic tastes in films and I think he has accepted that he's not going to like every film he reviews, he was one of the very few critics who liked High School Musical for example |
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Post by profquatermass on Apr 25, 2016 10:08:43 GMT
Agreed - just look at Mark Kermode, famous for his rants about films he hates. Neither of them can force the public to agree with them, though - BILB hasn't lasted and there's no shortage of Transformers films.... Kermode has quite eclectic tastes in films and I think he has accepted that he's not going to like every film he reviews, he was one of the very few critics who liked High School Musical for example Charlie Brooker devoted pretty much a whole episode of Screenwipe to how much he loved High School Musical |
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Post by littleflyer on Apr 25, 2016 12:44:08 GMT
I have briefly browsed over this thread, I have no care for Shenton or his opinion on anything so I haven't read the articles. But what I do feel I want to say is, its all well and good to moan about theatre facilities and seating, but some of these theatres are hundreds or years old, they make up part of our history and I for one, love going into an old theatre and appreciating the decor and simplicity. When a lot of these theatres were built disabled people just wouldn't go, therefore not all theatres would have the facilities to accommodate them and while yes some theatres have made adaptions to accommodate them now, it may not always be possible without making major changes that would take away the beauty and class of the place. A theatre cannot simply Magic the space to put in an extra toilet on a floor that is easily accessible. When I go to a show I go for escapism, to enjoy the show and lose myself for 2 and half hours in someone else's story, I don't go and inspect the toilet facilities or rate the comfiness of the seat. If Shenton doesn't like the conditions and facilities in these theatres then I'm sure there are thousands of people out there who would be willing to take that free ticket off his hands and go and enjoy the show, for the show! That person would then probably be able to write a respectable review about the show, cast, dancing, singing, acting and overall performance, a review that people thinking of seeing the show would be able to read to make a decision on whether to go or not, not a review on how big the toilet is or how long I may have to queue. Those types of things are what sites like TheatreMonkey are for, not "professional" reviews. And yet much space is given over to the bar, which is used for a tiny proportion of the evening, and the sweet/merchandise stands which a tiny proportion of the audience use. I imagine most people would rather have a comfortable seat for that escapist 2.5 hours and the ability to have a wee in the interval, than buy outrageously priced "refreshments". I know I would. Its perfectly possible to preseve the character and beauty of these places but redesign them so that they meet the needs of modern audiences. Cameron Mackintosh has done it. The reason others don't is underinvestment and greed. And the fact that people keep putting up with it. As I don't pay a lot of attention to disabled facilities in theatres, may I just ask which theatres you feel have over sized bars that could be easily accessable toilet facilities? |
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Post by partytentdown on May 10, 2016 6:12:45 GMT
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Post by kathryn on May 10, 2016 7:46:17 GMT
Do you work at Trafalgar Studios or something?!
That was actually quite a good column, mainly quoting audience reports from Theatremonkey's site, and only mentioning Trafalgar Studios at the end.. I'm sure we could all add a few examples to it.
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Post by freckles on May 10, 2016 7:51:21 GMT
theatremonkey gets a mention though! As I've said before though, although I don't think Shenton's performance reviews are totally fair and unbiased any more, I can't argue with his views about theatre seats and facilities. Even if he has taken many of his comments from forums because he always has a nice seat himself...  |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 8:34:49 GMT
I can't disagree with this latest column. Directors owe it to the public to constantly move from seat to seat once they get into the theatre proper to see what needs adjusting. If you want to make a perfect picture that's only visible from one particular viewpoint, make a damn film. If you're sticking with theatre, then work to make pictures that may be different from different angles but are always interesting and rarely obstructive. And for heaven's sake, go to the back and make sure the cast is AUDIBLE, Kenneth Branagh, Rob Ashford, and all such similar offenders!
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Post by popcultureboy on May 10, 2016 9:16:09 GMT
And yet much space is given over to the bar, which is used for a tiny proportion of the evening, and the sweet/merchandise stands which a tiny proportion of the audience use. I imagine most people would rather have a comfortable seat for that escapist 2.5 hours and the ability to have a wee in the interval, than buy outrageously priced "refreshments". I know I would. Its perfectly possible to preseve the character and beauty of these places but redesign them so that they meet the needs of modern audiences. Cameron Mackintosh has done it. The reason others don't is underinvestment and greed. And the fact that people keep putting up with it. As I don't pay a lot of attention to disabled facilities in theatres, may I just ask which theatres you feel have over sized bars that could be easily accessable toilet facilities? None could be done that easily. As pointed out earlier in the thread, the majority of west end theatres are Grade II listed buildings. And very old. Cameron Mackintosh is praised on here for refurbishing his venues to a high standard. That's wholly different to completely renovating the space to redirect all the plumbing and put in loads of toilets. Also, one of his venues, the Wyndhams, is unable to accommodate large electric wheelchairs if the customer is unable to transfer to a regular theatre seat. They are prevented from making the necessary venue changes rectify that problem by their listed status. Being a listed building trumps everything, including disabled facilities. |
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Post by profquatermass on May 10, 2016 10:10:39 GMT
As I don't pay a lot of attention to disabled facilities in theatres, may I just ask which theatres you feel have over sized bars that could be easily accessable toilet facilities? "None could be done that easily. As pointed out earlier in the thread, the majority of west end theatres are Grade II listed buildings. And very old. Cameron Mackintosh is praised on here for refurbishing his venues to a high standard. That's wholly different to completely renovating the space to redirect all the plumbing and put in loads of toilets. Also, one of his venues, the Wyndhams, is unable to accommodate large electric wheelchairs if the customer is unable to transfer to a regular theatre seat. They are prevented from making the necessary venue changes rectify that problem by their listed status. Being a listed building trumps everything, including disabled facilities. " Listed buildings aren't exempt from having to provide disabled access. However it's a civil law not a criminal one so I guess it would be up to Westminster Council to take legal action again the millions of businesses in central London which ignore it |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 10, 2016 10:44:17 GMT
"sorry we can't install more toilets because that would require plumbing"
I mean, really?
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Post by DuchessConstance on May 10, 2016 11:38:31 GMT
He makes an extremely good point. Seats that are restricted view due to things like balconies are one thing, but I've seen shows where I could not see the actors purely because of the set design or the positioning of the actors. For example "My Mother Told Me I Never Should" at the St James, I could only see half the stage from my front row seat due to a giant suitcase (which is not even used in the play, it's purely decorative) being plunked on the edge of the stage directly in front of my face.
That's just terrible directing, and directors who direct solely for the expensive seats should be called out for it.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 12:18:04 GMT
And a thousand times 'yes' to the point he makes about lighting. As someone whose migraines are triggered by bright light, far too often in the theatre I've sat blinking away a burst of light from the stage, or have had to shut my eyes entirely during scenes/scene changes heavily cued by lights, or in the case of strobe (really, who needs that?!) having to put my hands over my eyes as well to block it out. It can be a very uncomfortable experience - as well as making you look like a complete weirdo to the person sitting next to you, who is probably inching subtly away at that point...
I'd add to it that if bright lights are aimed at the stage when there's a reflective surface on there (usually a mirror, occasionally picture frames/clocks), that can annoy the audience, too. I seem to remember being dazzled several times during Bakersfield Mist - and not just by Kathleen Turner's star wattage! So it would be good to check the angle of that sort of thing as well, whenever possible.
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Post by kathryn on May 10, 2016 16:10:59 GMT
I hate it when they shine bright lights into the audience.
I tend to close my eyes to avoid being dazzled too, but if you're just sat in *that seat* getting overspill from the stage lights you'll miss half the show.
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Post by littleflyer on May 10, 2016 20:52:43 GMT
I'm just not sure some people understand what a listed building is and the actual lengths they would have to go to, just to simply apply for the rights to make the changes, it then has to then go many different people before a decision is made. It's not as simple as going to the owner and going 'hey I'm just gonna knock through these few walls and cause absolute havoc through the entire building and stick this toilet block in'
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 10, 2016 21:41:10 GMT
I'm just not sure some people understand what a listed building is and the actual lengths they would have to go to, just to simply apply for the rights to make the changes, it then has to then go many different people before a decision is made. It's not as simple as going to the owner and going 'hey I'm just gonna knock through these few walls and cause absolute havoc through the entire building and stick this toilet block in' I do understand what a listed building is, and that many thousands of them have been sympathetically updated so that they are of use today and not falling into disrepair. But thanks for patronising me! Presumably these buildings are are going to be in use as theatres for decades, if not centuries to come. At some point they are going to have to modernise. Why not do it now? |
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Post by littleflyer on May 10, 2016 22:31:07 GMT
I'm just not sure some people understand what a listed building is and the actual lengths they would have to go to, just to simply apply for the rights to make the changes, it then has to then go many different people before a decision is made. It's not as simple as going to the owner and going 'hey I'm just gonna knock through these few walls and cause absolute havoc through the entire building and stick this toilet block in' I do understand what a listed building is, and that many thousands of them have been sympathetically updated so that they are of use today and not falling into disrepair. But thanks for patronising me! Presumably these buildings are are going to be in use as theatres for decades, if not centuries to come. At some point they are going to have to modernise. Why not do it now? I am not trying to be patronising, I am simply saying that such alterations cannot be made that easily. Also I can imagine such alterations would not come cheap and theatre being pretty cut throat at the moment and shows closing early, I see Show Boat is the latest victim, are they making enough money to even do the changes needed? |
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Post by Jon on May 10, 2016 23:23:58 GMT
The Trafalgar Studios isn't a new theatre like the St James so likely is affected by listed status.
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Post by popcultureboy on May 10, 2016 23:42:20 GMT
"sorry we can't install more toilets because that would require plumbing" I mean, really? Yes, really. The complete overhaul of the plumbing works inside a centuries old listed building is really no small task. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on May 12, 2016 11:01:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 12:43:08 GMT
"Following the two incidents described above, an inspection has been conducted by Westminster City Council, who are satisfied that the theatre meets all health and safety requirements."
If there are multiple incidents in a short period of time it suggests that there's a problem no matter how compliant they are. Regulations are a good starting point but they're not the finishing point as well.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 12, 2016 15:15:57 GMT
*hic*
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 15:24:23 GMT
I mean, people fall over. The theatre could consider letting people down the stairs next to the box office desk, which I think are less steep than the auditorium stairs and are almost certainly better lit, which would ultimately deposit them at the furthest corner of the auditorium from the main entrance. From there they might then have to go up the auditorium stairs, but if I had to use some steep stairs in a semi-dark room, I know I'd feel much safer going up than going down. But even though these are two fairly nasty accidents and they've happened so close together, I'm not sure we can say the auditorium is definitely 100% to blame. After all, accidents happen, and that saying is a cliche for a reason.
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Post by DuchessConstance on May 12, 2016 21:58:26 GMT
Drunk people are one thing, but designing a brand new theatre that's not safe for people with mobility issues seems like a fairly significant failure. So many people are elderly or have disabilities, and older people do make up a significant percentage of theatre-going audiences. I'm disabled and the St James is genuinely a bit scary for me. I always make sure to arrive very early because climbing those stairs in the rush would be too dangerous. So I mostly avoid it unless it's something I'm desperate to see.
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