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Post by n1david on Apr 21, 2016 18:59:15 GMT
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725 posts
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Post by theatremiss on Apr 21, 2016 21:21:22 GMT
I know as a reviewer I would find it extremely difficult to travel to Sheffield, Plymouth, Manchester to see a show and thankfully I only have to worry about the region I review and am responsible for. I do regularly travel nearly 2hrs to Chichester or 55mins to Southampton so in a way I understand the difficulties in getting out to another area. Chichester as mentioned in the link in the above post is notoriously difficult to get to. Personally I could not manage it by train and it would take me more than 15mins to negotiate the roads, not to mention the petrol or parking fees to get to some venues. That aside if a newspaper cannot pay for a London centric journo to review then perhaps they should send someone that lives closer to the venue. It's what The Reviews Hub does. It's a shame What's on Stage don't feel fit to review in the regions anymore, but personally just because a reviewer doesn't review out of their area I really don't have a problem with that. I don't mind Mark Shenton and after all if any of us were offered free tickets to a show and we could have our costs paid too I doubt any of us would turn it down
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19,803 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 21, 2016 21:28:56 GMT
I know as a reviewer I would find it extremely difficult to travel to Sheffield, Plymouth, Manchester to see a show and thankfully I only have to worry about the region I review and am responsible for. I do regularly travel nearly 2hrs to Chichester or 55mins to Southampton so in a way I understand the difficulties in getting out to another area. Chichester as mentioned in the link in the above post is notoriously difficult to get to. Personally I could not manage it by train and it would take me more than 15mins to negotiate the roads, not to mention the petrol or parking fees to get to some venues. That aside if a newspaper cannot pay for a London centric journo to review then perhaps they should send someone that lives closer to the venue. It's what The Reviews Hub does. It's a shame What's on Stage don't feel fit to review in the regions anymore, but personally just because a reviewer doesn't review out of their area I really don't have a problem with that. I don't mind Mark Shenton and after all if any of us were offered free tickets to a show and we could have our costs paid too I doubt any of us would turn it down London to Manchester by train 2hours Similar for London to Sheffield. Im just back from a meeting in London, I left my home at 05:45 this fine morning and rolled in at 21:45. Sadly I didn't see a show, itvwas rather less glamourous than that. Thousands and thousands of normal people do this. It's work. That's why they pay us, isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 21:39:20 GMT
To be fair, if I had his health troubles, I wouldn't much fancy a four-hour round trip, with potentially another 3 hours sitting in a theatre seat, either!
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Post by partytentdown on Apr 21, 2016 21:42:58 GMT
I understand he's based in London and has health issues, I get that... it's just the repetitive...whingeing...about the same stuff. We KNOW the Trafalgar is uncomfortable. WE KNOW! WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!
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5,073 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 21, 2016 22:01:29 GMT
When I said about free ticket I wasn't having a major dig and the Trafalgar Studio isn't the only uncomfortable theatre in London, the ultra modern St James so too. I also give home a lot of credit, that he covers more ground than any other critic and will cover the spit and sawdust places the 'fully fledged' theatre critics dare not go.
Not aware of Mark's health issues?
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on Apr 21, 2016 22:49:57 GMT
I understand that you probably have to love theatre to review it and go every night of the week. However, if you are going to review impartially the reviewer has to keep a professional distance between themselves and the artists. I do feel that Shenton loves to be friends with performers but then of course it is difficult to truly criticise objectively - understandably.
A professional distance is essential. This is where he falls down - possibly praising mediocre work from people who are personal friends.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 5:57:28 GMT
I understand he's based in London and has health issues, I get that... it's just the repetitive...whingeing...about the same stuff. We KNOW the Trafalgar is uncomfortable. WE KNOW! WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE! Again, to be fair... We need only take a look at our 'bad behaviour' thread to see we do the same... ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 5:59:42 GMT
When I said about free ticket I wasn't having a major dig and the Trafalgar Studio isn't the only uncomfortable theatre in London, the ultra modern St James so too. I also give home a lot of credit, that he covers more ground than any other critic and will cover the spit and sawdust places the 'fully fledged' theatre critics dare not go. Not aware of Mark's health issues? I just meant his back trouble and hip replacements. I'm a healthy almost 40-year-old and if I go to the theatre two nights in a row, my back lets me know about it. It must be much worse for someone who is already troubled with back pain.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 7:24:49 GMT
Just to clarify: I firstly agree with the points in the article, as others have said we all moan about it.
I'm also not complaining that a London based critic sees things mostly in London, that itself is perfectly understandable. What I don't like is his attitude (and others it's not exclusively a Shenton thing) that there is nothing 'worth seeing' outside of London, something he and a few other London critics frequently take swipes at. London theatre is amazing, but there are plenty of regional producing houses who make work comparable and better than London. I'm not asking Shenton and co to see them (indeed leave some work for regional critics) I'm asking for them to be respectful and not dismiss anything outside of London as not worth anyone's time.
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543 posts
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Post by freckles on Apr 22, 2016 8:50:08 GMT
Whatever Shenton's failings as a critic, I do think this particular article is fair enough. I don't think that "a comfy seat, an unbroken view and a decent loo" are too much to ask from a theatre, and it frustrates me too that these things are so frequently disappointing. A clear view of the stage is one fundamental thing that many theatres fail to achieve. Older theatres can't really do much about poor auditorium design, other than direct and block shows so that they work in the venue - yet it amazes me how many don't. I'm not talking about Restrictred View seats, where some inconvenience is traded off against a reduced ticket price, but general seating that either has obstructions in the way or gives the occupant blind spots of the stage.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 8:57:42 GMT
Isn't he some sort of journalist? Can't he write more of an article than a whinge? Any idiot can get on the internet and say "THEATRES ARE UNCOMFORTABLE", lord knows we do it here all the time, but he is a person of note with a respectably sized audience who could actually make a difference if he focused his writing on what theatres could be doing better rather than using his column to remind you he's had hip replacements. Or at the very least he could look into audience ages and point out that with X many audience members over the age of Y, there's a very good chance that by failing to improve accessibility, theatres risk wiping out their core audience. He has the audience and, I expect, the connections necessary for more interesting articles that might help to effect change, so why doesn't he write them?
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Apr 22, 2016 9:37:23 GMT
A clear view of the stage is one fundamental thing that many theatres fail to achieve. Older theatres can't really do much about poor auditorium design, other than direct and block shows so that they work in the venue - yet it amazes me how many don't. I'm not talking about Restrictred View seats, where some inconvenience is traded off against a reduced ticket price, but general seating that either has obstructions in the way or gives the occupant blind spots of the stage. CumberHamlet springs to mind as a show where set design and direction combined with the venue layout created totally unnecesarry restricted views. Elsewhere I've sat in seats described as 'clear view' by the box office that missed the front of an extended stage - possibly it was visible to someone a foot taller than me, but they'd have needed their legs chopped off at the knee to get in the seats.
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5,073 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 22, 2016 11:50:16 GMT
The same people who complain about facilities and comfort, are the first one to remind that our cathedrals of culture are listed buildings and remind you so, if someone dares to propose any changes.
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5,073 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 22, 2016 15:53:09 GMT
When I said about free ticket I wasn't having a major dig and the Trafalgar Studio isn't the only uncomfortable theatre in London, the ultra modern St James so too. I also give home a lot of credit, that he covers more ground than any other critic and will cover the spit and sawdust places the 'fully fledged' theatre critics dare not go. Not aware of Mark's health issues? I just meant his back trouble and hip replacements. I'm a healthy almost 40-year-old and if I go to the theatre two nights in a row, my back lets me know about it. It must be much worse for someone who is already troubled with back pain. Thanks for that. Not really a chronic conditions, like something like IBD etc. Theatre Reviewing would be the perfect job if you have had a hip replacement, it isn't arduous, just think if you worked on a building site, with a hip replacement or other manual intense jobs.
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Apr 22, 2016 16:50:19 GMT
Shenton's hip replacement means that he needs seats to be at the right height for him or he has problems. So theatre reviewing's not such an ideal job from that perspective. And it is a chronic problem.
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Post by profquatermass on Apr 22, 2016 17:17:14 GMT
It's pretty gaoling complaing about facilities, when you don't pay for your ticket, like we do. As for disabled toilets, as far as I am aware all toilets on Broadway are inaccessible, or should I say 'handicap'. Why? He has a platform, most paying customers don't. Everything he says is true
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725 posts
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Post by theatremiss on Apr 22, 2016 19:35:00 GMT
I know as a reviewer I would find it extremely difficult to travel to Sheffield, Plymouth, Manchester to see a show and thankfully I only have to worry about the region I review and am responsible for. I do regularly travel nearly 2hrs to Chichester or 55mins to Southampton so in a way I understand the difficulties in getting out to another area. Chichester as mentioned in the link in the above post is notoriously difficult to get to. Personally I could not manage it by train and it would take me more than 15mins to negotiate the roads, not to mention the petrol or parking fees to get to some venues. That aside if a newspaper cannot pay for a London centric journo to review then perhaps they should send someone that lives closer to the venue. It's what The Reviews Hub does. It's a shame What's on Stage don't feel fit to review in the regions anymore, but personally just because a reviewer doesn't review out of their area I really don't have a problem with that. I don't mind Mark Shenton and after all if any of us were offered free tickets to a show and we could have our costs paid too I doubt any of us would turn it down London to Manchester by train 2hours Similar for London to Sheffield. Im just back from a meeting in London, I left my home at 05:45 this fine morning and rolled in at 21:45. Sadly I didn't see a show, itvwas rather less glamourous than that. Thousands and thousands of normal people do this. It's work. That's why they pay us, isn't it? Well I certainly don't get paid for reviewing, I get a free ticket and pay for myself to get to and from the theatre. London to Sheffield is over 3hrs and you would need an overnight stop to get back from there to London after a Press Night......assuming you could get to the station and on your train by 9.30pm. I agree that there are fabulous regional productions but Shenton doesn't have to cover them all. There are plenty of enthusiastic bloggers and regional journalists that can cover many of these productions. you can't please all the people all of the time
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19,803 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 22, 2016 20:04:57 GMT
I'm talking about people who do get paid for it though theatremiss. Which Mark Shenton does, presumably. If it's a job you have to expect to put yourself out more than you would as a volunteer. Surely.
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107 posts
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Post by littleflyer on Apr 23, 2016 7:16:55 GMT
I have briefly browsed over this thread, I have no care for Shenton or his opinion on anything so I haven't read the articles. But what I do feel I want to say is, its all well and good to moan about theatre facilities and seating, but some of these theatres are hundreds or years old, they make up part of our history and I for one, love going into an old theatre and appreciating the decor and simplicity. When a lot of these theatres were built disabled people just wouldn't go, therefore not all theatres would have the facilities to accommodate them and while yes some theatres have made adaptions to accommodate them now, it may not always be possible without making major changes that would take away the beauty and class of the place. A theatre cannot simply Magic the space to put in an extra toilet on a floor that is easily accessible. When I go to a show I go for escapism, to enjoy the show and lose myself for 2 and half hours in someone else's story, I don't go and inspect the toilet facilities or rate the comfiness of the seat. If Shenton doesn't like the conditions and facilities in these theatres then I'm sure there are thousands of people out there who would be willing to take that free ticket off his hands and go and enjoy the show, for the show! That person would then probably be able to write a respectable review about the show, cast, dancing, singing, acting and overall performance, a review that people thinking of seeing the show would be able to read to make a decision on whether to go or not, not a review on how big the toilet is or how long I may have to queue. Those types of things are what sites like TheatreMonkey are for, not "professional" reviews.
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Post by profquatermass on Apr 23, 2016 14:49:46 GMT
I have briefly browsed over this thread, I have no care for Shenton or his opinion on anything so I haven't read the articles. But what I do feel I want to say is, its all well and good to moan about theatre facilities and seating, but some of these theatres are hundreds or years old, they make up part of our history and I for one, love going into an old theatre and appreciating the decor and simplicity. When a lot of these theatres were built disabled people just wouldn't go, therefore not all theatres would have the facilities to accommodate them and while yes some theatres have made adaptions to accommodate them now, it may not always be possible without making major changes that would take away the beauty and class of the place. A theatre cannot simply Magic the space to put in an extra toilet on a floor that is easily accessible. When I go to a show I go for escapism, to enjoy the show and lose myself for 2 and half hours in someone else's story, I don't go and inspect the toilet facilities or rate the comfiness of the seat. If Shenton doesn't like the conditions and facilities in these theatres then I'm sure there are thousands of people out there who would be willing to take that free ticket off his hands and go and enjoy the show, for the show! That person would then probably be able to write a respectable review about the show, cast, dancing, singing, acting and overall performance, a review that people thinking of seeing the show would be able to read to make a decision on whether to go or not, not a review on how big the toilet is or how long I may have to queue. Those types of things are what sites like TheatreMonkey are for, not "professional" reviews. Totally disagree. It's an utter disgrace that a theatre like the Old Vic which has been expensively refurbished thinks that it's OK to charge £100 for a show and then tell people that they won't have time to go to the loo in the interval of a three hour show. Pretty difficult to lose yourself in a show if you're physically uncomfortable. There's more to an evening out than what happens on stage
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19,803 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 23, 2016 18:26:10 GMT
I have briefly browsed over this thread, I have no care for Shenton or his opinion on anything so I haven't read the articles. But what I do feel I want to say is, its all well and good to moan about theatre facilities and seating, but some of these theatres are hundreds or years old, they make up part of our history and I for one, love going into an old theatre and appreciating the decor and simplicity. When a lot of these theatres were built disabled people just wouldn't go, therefore not all theatres would have the facilities to accommodate them and while yes some theatres have made adaptions to accommodate them now, it may not always be possible without making major changes that would take away the beauty and class of the place. A theatre cannot simply Magic the space to put in an extra toilet on a floor that is easily accessible. When I go to a show I go for escapism, to enjoy the show and lose myself for 2 and half hours in someone else's story, I don't go and inspect the toilet facilities or rate the comfiness of the seat. If Shenton doesn't like the conditions and facilities in these theatres then I'm sure there are thousands of people out there who would be willing to take that free ticket off his hands and go and enjoy the show, for the show! That person would then probably be able to write a respectable review about the show, cast, dancing, singing, acting and overall performance, a review that people thinking of seeing the show would be able to read to make a decision on whether to go or not, not a review on how big the toilet is or how long I may have to queue. Those types of things are what sites like TheatreMonkey are for, not "professional" reviews. And yet much space is given over to the bar, which is used for a tiny proportion of the evening, and the sweet/merchandise stands which a tiny proportion of the audience use. I imagine most people would rather have a comfortable seat for that escapist 2.5 hours and the ability to have a wee in the interval, than buy outrageously priced "refreshments". I know I would. Its perfectly possible to preseve the character and beauty of these places but redesign them so that they meet the needs of modern audiences. Cameron Mackintosh has done it. The reason others don't is underinvestment and greed. And the fact that people keep putting up with it.
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543 posts
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Post by freckles on Apr 24, 2016 8:19:31 GMT
Hard to lose yourself for 2 1/2 hours if you're uncomfortable and can't see properly though.
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Apr 24, 2016 10:22:52 GMT
Yes, indeed - we all know that there are certain theatres where the cheap seats are a false economy, becuase you simply can't get properly drawn into the performance on stage from them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 13:27:05 GMT
He annoys me so much but what annoys me about him is his forceful opinionated views.
If he believes something then he'll make us believe it too. It's his way or the high way and he needs to stop. He was obsessed with BILB and because he likes it then we have to for some reason even if it wasn't good. He even slagged off the Oliviers for not showing diversity because they didn't show BILB performance and they didn't win an award.....
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