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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 1:00:39 GMT
But what I want to know is....who on earth is presenting?! The ensemble of The Girls. |
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Post by lonlad on Mar 8, 2017 6:48:07 GMT
The way the ever-nonsensical Oliviers are going, there will be a nomination one year for Every Actor in a West End Show for their Contribution to London Culture ..... it's stupefying, and not worth taking seriously, and the bar was set this low 20 years ago with the nomination from TOMMY of someone from the ensemble who didn't even have a named part .....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 9:02:28 GMT
But what I want to know is....who on earth is presenting?! The ensemble of The Girls. Well actually, it was supposed to just be Joanna Riding but . . . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 10:36:43 GMT
At the end of the day why are new musicals and revivals placed in separate catagories ? Because the way that audiences judge them are inherently different. New shows have to win people over from scratch. Revivals succeed by reinventing known material making it fresh. While Dreamgirls may technically be a new West End show I think that it goes against the spirit of why we have those separate categories. With 21st century technology this is especiallly true. Everybody can see you tube recordings/ DVD of the original Broadway production or the J Hudson movie and have the recordings on their I Phones. The show is 1-2 generations old. It should be considered a revival. I've written about 5 different posts and deleted them all, .... instead i'll just ask, what makes something eligible for best NEW musical? And what should be considered a revival? Firstly, welcome to the board msdynamite - fantastic name! Secondly, (and really this is just the way I see it, regarding the Oliviers) a new musical is considered a new musical if it is the first time it has been done in London. Yes a show like Dreamgirls can be much loved through the film or recordings, or even played everywhere else in the UK or on Broadway for the past 30 years, but if it has never been performed in London then I guess it counts as a new musical. I personally was looking forward to seeing how Half A Sixpence would've been catergorised as either Best New Musical or Best Musical Revival. Cameron Mackintosh has said that it is "80% a new show" which would make sense to count it as a "New Musical" like the WhatsOnStage awards did, but would the Oliviers stick to the "Revival" route like they did with Andrew Lloyd Webber's new The Wizard of Oz in 2012 (another rewritten musical with new songs after the original RSC/Barbican version in 1987). I guess the Oliviers have just dodged the whole decision by not nominating it for either. But what I want to know is....who on earth is presenting?! Sixpence was submitted as a new musical. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 10:43:19 GMT
I like the idea Sixpence was ahead in votes and then Gary Barlow or Andrew Lloyd Webber paid a couple of people off and that just eeked them over the edge.
I'm joking though, all four shows are deserving despite my upset. Having seen three and hearing The Girls is great, I genuinely don't know which is going to win!
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Post by Jon on Mar 8, 2017 16:13:10 GMT
Secondly, (and really this is just the way I see it, regarding the Oliviers) a new musical is considered a new musical if it is the first time it has been done in London. Yes a show like Dreamgirls can be much loved through the film or recordings, or even played everywhere else in the UK or on Broadway for the past 30 years, but if it has never been performed in London then I guess it counts as a new musical. I personally was looking forward to seeing how Half A Sixpence would've been catergorised as either Best New Musical or Best Musical Revival. Cameron Mackintosh has said that it is "80% a new show" which would make sense to count it as a "New Musical" like the WhatsOnStage awards did, but would the Oliviers stick to the "Revival" route like they did with Andrew Lloyd Webber's new The Wizard of Oz in 2012 (another rewritten musical with new songs after the original RSC/Barbican version in 1987). I guess the Oliviers have just dodged the whole decision by not nominating it for either. I think had Dreamgirls played in the UK or in a non West End production, this production probably would be considered a revival. The Wiz for example has never had a West End run but has played at both The Lyric Hammersmith and the Hackney Empire so any new West End production of The Wiz would be considered a revival and not a new musical for nomination purposes. |
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Post by Polly1 on Mar 8, 2017 16:25:52 GMT
Some interesting articles in The Stage (accessible via their Twitter feed) - Mark Shenton on the undue influence of SOLT, Alistair Smith in similar vein on eligibility and Andrzej Lukowski on the Best Play category.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 18:49:56 GMT
[quote source="/post/96794/thread" timestamp="1488934424" I think had Dreamgirls played in the UK or in a non West End production, this production probably would be considered a revival. The Wiz for example has never had a West End run but has played at both The Lyric Hammersmith and the Hackney Empire so any new West End production of The Wiz would be considered a revival and not a new musical for nomination purposes. [/quote] I agree that it would be classed as a revival if it had already been at a non-West End revival like Hammersmith or Hackney as the Oliviers is for London theatre, not just the West End. But even if Dreamgirls already did a different production say 10 years ago in Chichester or Sheffield then I'd still consider this one a new musical as it is new for London. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 19:05:03 GMT
Merrily We Roll Along had been produced in the UK yet the Donmar production was termed a new musical and won in 2001.
What they are, and increasingly so as they become more like the widely ridiculed Standard awards, is a way of giving producers a bit of a push in their advertising. You can't judge 'best' in any case, so they are going the whole hog and not hiding that it's merely about marketing.
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 8, 2017 19:56:41 GMT
Tonys versus Oliviers
The age old argument was is the better award, this is how I see
Award structure the Tony Awards wins hands down, the Olivier Awards should adopt the same structure.
The Olivier Awards seem to make the rule as they go and adapt and bend them each year to fit their agenda the best, but saying that the Olivier Awards are more earnest, in that they are genuinely given for excellence, not for what show happens to be open, or what out of town producers' think will go in their theatre the best, or what show has the most money and can launch the biggest lobbying campaign.
So good parts on both awards.
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Post by bellboard27 on Mar 8, 2017 20:02:26 GMT
I see a new musical on the horizon: Bend it Like the Oliviers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 20:05:31 GMT
One thing that is nice about the Andrew Langtree nomination, it gives hope to all those Ensemble cast members in London! You sing a few lines here and there and you may just get a nomination at the biggest theatre awards in the country!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 23:43:14 GMT
I think the Tonys are just better altogether. They do have the occasional odd result, but not enough for me to think that they aren't genuinely awarded for the most part.
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 9, 2017 20:28:11 GMT
Don't you think Morown was hard done by? Completely snubbed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 20:58:18 GMT
One thing that is nice about the Andrew Langtree nomination, it gives hope to all those Ensemble cast members in London! You sing a few lines here and there and you may just get a nomination at the biggest theatre awards in the country! But its not fair when it robs people like Trevor Dion Nicholas of their truly deserving nomnination?! |
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Post by couldileaveyou on Mar 9, 2017 23:38:11 GMT
Judi Dench was at Virginia Woolf tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 13:59:29 GMT
Jason Manford hosting.
A Facebook live just went out with him talking to a few nominees.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:10:16 GMT
ALL the A list this year
After Denise Gough announcing the nominations
They just keep ascending the ladder of prestige
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:48:17 GMT
After Denise Gough announcing the nominations In terms of acting ability, Ms Gough is "A List" for sure. Wouldn't it be great if talent presented to talent? It does help if the person has a persona and celebrity presence also There are plenty of people who have talent and charisma and star appeal Denise Gough has only one of these I would agree with you if the Oliviers were a private event with no media coverage and just took place in a boardroom somewhere However the fact is that they are not and ever more so they are a PR exercise So makes the lack of star and international appeal and shortcomings all the more evident |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:50:53 GMT
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Mar 10, 2017 16:37:37 GMT
Ah, but an actor can play a role. If they are any good, they should be able to play a star presenter if required... thus proving the point neatly, too.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:57:07 GMT
Ah, but an actor can play a role. If they are any good, they should be able to play a star presenter if required... thus proving the point neatly, too. I am talking about their physical appearance And garments Jewels Makeup and hair They don't exactly rival the oscars or even the Tony's |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 17:00:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 17:15:27 GMT
And the award for the most ridiculous post goes to....
Parsley!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 17:17:56 GMT
Presented by Dame Joan Collins
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