2,762 posts
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 12:07:30 GMT
Post by n1david on Oct 4, 2019 12:07:30 GMT
So it looks like the PM's big talk is... just talk
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3,321 posts
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Post by david on Oct 4, 2019 12:26:19 GMT
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4,993 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 4, 2019 14:09:33 GMT
It's great to see @theatremonkey getting some credit after Pattie's harsh words
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849 posts
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Post by duncan on Oct 4, 2019 14:15:52 GMT
I want Patti to make the deal that gets us out of this current farrago.
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 19:45:02 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 4, 2019 19:45:02 GMT
Didn't Italy spend a combined £7.5k on Y2K and nothing went wrong? For the benefit of those who won’t click through to the article, no: That is one dissenting article and from a source that could be quite biased. Google it and see what you find
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573 posts
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 21:14:02 GMT
Post by Dave25 on Oct 4, 2019 21:14:02 GMT
So what happens next? Will Boris ask for an extension of 1 day? Or will there be a 3 month extension, elections next month and won by him and a no-deal Brexit next month with his newly chosen majority party? Because pro-Brexit parties are still very much divided/scattered.
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 21:22:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by xanady on Oct 4, 2019 21:22:41 GMT
Things can only get better...surely?
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 21:55:06 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Oct 4, 2019 21:55:06 GMT
Not in the Tony Blair sense. Johnson will be counting the PLP triggers as they mount up in the coming weeks and months knowing that the anti-Corbyn progressives (and pro Remain) are being weeded out. What they are being replaced with (Leave/Remain is another matter). But it is another HoC complexion change to follow on from the 21 former Tories and Lib Dem defections.
If there is a long game here, in both Red and Blue parties, the active membership is maj Leave, and constituency parties are making inroads vs their contrarian MP representatives. If I were Johnson I'd hang on - at constituency level, time is Brexit's friend.
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573 posts
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 22:24:57 GMT
Post by Dave25 on Oct 4, 2019 22:24:57 GMT
I mean "anti brexit parties" are divided.
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 4, 2019 22:44:32 GMT
We are most probably in a hiatus until the 19th, full of sound and fury signifying nothing
The Opposition are waiting to play their Joker which they may have to if they want to remove any doubt of a No-Deal Brexit due to the mixed messages from Johnson, will comply with the Benn-Act and still leave on the 31st.
My gut feeling is that a vote of no confidence will take place on the 21st once the Johnson strategy is in motion/understood and whether an extension or deal has been tabled.
On an election all is quiet, the numbers indicate no Party will have a majority and Johnson really needed one before, or to have left the EU by the 31st, the election will definitely not happen and leaving unlikely, therefore the Conservatives wooed by the Brexit Party are unlikely to return to the fold believing their best bet is to vote with the Brexit Party therefore reducing the Conservative chance of a majority.
The unknown is how the Labour and Lib Dem’s get on, If Labour become a Leave Party they could get a majority, if not on their own, in a coalition with the SNP / Plaid and Greens and may chance an election.
The likelihood once we get past the 31st is neither Labour and the Conservatives would want an election as the Brexit Party would weaken the Conservatives chances of a majority and the Lib Dem’s weaken Labours.
Ironically the best way forward for the Conservatives if we haven’t left on the 31st is a referendum, how the Conservatives could engineer one would be a masterclass in spin and they will likely have to influence Labour or the Lib Dems to trigger one.
The end game on Brexit is still up in the air and the only thing we know for sure is, O time! thou must untangle this, not I; It is too hard a knot for me to untie!
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Brexit
Oct 5, 2019 0:17:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 0:17:12 GMT
Not in the Tony Blair sense. Johnson will be counting the PLP triggers as they mount up in the coming weeks and months knowing that the anti-Corbyn progressives (and pro Remain) are being weeded out. What they are being replaced with (Leave/Remain is another matter). But it is another HoC complexion change to follow on from the 21 former Tories and Lib Dem defections. If there is a long game here, in both Red and Blue parties, the active membership is maj Leave, and constituency parties are making inroads vs their contrarian MP representatives. If I were Johnson I'd hang on - at constituency level, time is Brexit's friend. Active labour membership is majority leave? A poll of labour members after the referendum showed 89% remain*. If true, the last few years really have hollowed out the party to an unrepresentative shell. If they are being represented on the doorstep by that group then it’s no wonder voters are being lost. *UKIP members voting 99% leave. Conservative members 70% leave, Green members 97% remain, Lib members 96% remain, SNP members 90% remain, Labour members 89% remain. Source: ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Public-Opinion.pdf
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Oct 5, 2019 5:12:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 5, 2019 5:12:17 GMT
Sorry, my mistake, if Labour become a Remain Party,
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Brexit
Oct 5, 2019 7:09:39 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Oct 5, 2019 7:09:39 GMT
Not in the Tony Blair sense. Johnson will be counting the PLP triggers as they mount up in the coming weeks and months knowing that the anti-Corbyn progressives (and pro Remain) are being weeded out. What they are being replaced with (Leave/Remain is another matter). But it is another HoC complexion change to follow on from the 21 former Tories and Lib Dem defections. If there is a long game here, in both Red and Blue parties, the active membership is maj Leave, and constituency parties are making inroads vs their contrarian MP representatives. If I were Johnson I'd hang on - at constituency level, time is Brexit's friend. Active labour membership is majority leave? I agree; it shouldn't be the case and yet it looks to be the case, or it looks as if it's becoming the case - based on this highly Remain, non-suburban, strong London constituency. It is close, Len McCluskey presumably has some influence (over the union affiliates) and, from the conference, so does Corbyn. We'll know more in about 12 weeks, at the end of the trigger/selection process.
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5,707 posts
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Post by lynette on Oct 7, 2019 9:13:34 GMT
Lovely Shakespeare, Neil. Of course Willie got there before us all. Another Ref would have us in the same position as we are now. The losing side would not accept the decision. If Remain lose, they continue their battle. If Leave lose this time, they say why didn't we abide by Ref 1 so we at least best of 3. 😂
General Election only way out. The person with the working maj in HoC goes to Queen and forms a gov. Then does whatever he/she wants to do with the mandate behind him/her. This may well mean a coalition somewhere in the House. We are of course moving towards a coalition style Gov now. End of.
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4,993 posts
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Brexit
Oct 7, 2019 15:33:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 7, 2019 15:33:28 GMT
Have I got news for you starts again on friday. Yay. I'm sure lots of fun Brexit topics will be discussed!
Also, the new theme tune is fabulous
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Oct 7, 2019 17:46:57 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 7, 2019 17:46:57 GMT
We are most probably in a hiatus until the 19th, full of sound and fury signifying nothing The Opposition are waiting to play their Joker which they may have to if they want to remove any doubt of a No-Deal Brexit due to the mixed messages from Johnson, will comply with the Benn-Act and still leave on the 31st. My gut feeling is that a vote of no confidence will take place on the 21st once the Johnson strategy is in motion/understood and whether an extension or deal has been tabled. On an election all is quiet, the numbers indicate no Party will have a majority and Johnson really needed one before, or to have left the EU by the 31st, the election will definitely not happen and leaving unlikely, therefore the Conservatives wooed by the Brexit Party are unlikely to return to the fold believing their best bet is to vote with the Brexit Party therefore reducing the Conservative chance of a majority. The unknown is how the Labour and Lib Dem’s get on, If Labour become a Leave Party they could get a majority, if not on their own, in a coalition with the SNP / Plaid and Greens and may chance an election. The likelihood once we get past the 31st is neither Labour and the Conservatives would want an election as the Brexit Party would weaken the Conservatives chances of a majority and the Lib Dem’s weaken Labours.
Ironically the best way forward for the Conservatives if we haven’t left on the 31st is a referendum, how the Conservatives could engineer one would be a masterclass in spin and they will likely have to influence Labour or the Lib Dems to trigger one. The end game on Brexit is still up in the air and the only thing we know for sure is, O time! thou must untangle this, not I; It is too hard a knot for me to untie! Behave yourself. You are Chukka Ummuna, you are I know it
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 14:07:53 GMT
Our so-called Prime Minister and government really are pathetic. I'm not sure I can even formulate much more commentary than that at the minute, I'm so angry (though entirely unsurprised). Cummings really is pretty much the lowest of the low, and none of them have one iota of respect for democracy or thoughts of anything but their own entirely unrealistic agenda of chaos.
What appalling times we live in.
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Brexit
Oct 8, 2019 14:32:15 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Oct 8, 2019 14:32:15 GMT
Has he dissatisfied the Empire of Virtue again?
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Brexit
Oct 8, 2019 15:18:39 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 8, 2019 15:18:39 GMT
After the trouble that Trump got into over a phone call, would have thought Johnson would have been a bit more cautious of leaking an uncorroborated account of his call with Merkel.
Merkel and co seem furious of the leak and the language used, have a feeling a transcript of the call will be leaked imminently and if spun as an EU conspiracy would not be surprised the audio would be made available to a ’chosen few’. Hope for Johnson’s case the call was, as leaked, otherwise we will have another faux pass by the Liar in Chief who has further antagonised the EU who we will have negotiate for the next 5-10 years no matter what happens on the 31st.
One thing was right on the details leaked, the Good Friday Agreement and leaving the Customs Union in Northern Ireland are mutually exclusive, we are now getting to the point the only way the UK can leave the EU is without a Deal or with a Deal which includes staying in the Customs Union without hanging Northern Ireland out to dry.
With the numbers released today of the financial costs and having to explain the contingencies for not running out of toilet paper* in Parliament by a compatriot this afternoon, going into an Election on a No-Deal platform would be an interesting strategy and staying in the Customs Union a no no to the ERG and Brexit Party.
As Claudio would say, “Let every eye negotiate for itself and trust no agent”
*been benign on stockpiling up to now but may now buy a bumper pack of Andrex, never been European enough to understand the delights of a bidet and may now be ironically driven to at least contemplate its use.
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5,707 posts
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Brexit
Oct 8, 2019 16:03:45 GMT
Post by lynette on Oct 8, 2019 16:03:45 GMT
Just added a bit of shopping to my list......
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5,066 posts
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Brexit
Oct 8, 2019 16:47:34 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Oct 8, 2019 16:47:34 GMT
Just added a bit of shopping to my list...... Black Friday soon Lynette, has it happens 01st November is a Friday, make of that wash at you will.
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Oct 8, 2019 17:43:52 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 8, 2019 17:43:52 GMT
After the trouble that Trump got into over a phone call, would have thought Johnson would have been a bit more cautious of leaking an uncorroborated account of his call with Merkel. Merkel and co seem furious of the leak and the language used, have a feeling a transcript of the call will be leaked imminently and if spun as an EU conspiracy would not be surprised the audio would be made available to a ’chosen few’. Hope for Johnson’s case the call was, as leaked, otherwise we will have another faux pass by the Liar in Chief who has further antagonised the EU who we will have negotiate for the next 5-10 years no matter what happens on the 31st. One thing was right on the details leaked, the Good Friday Agreement and leaving the Customs Union in Northern Ireland are mutually exclusive, we are now getting to the point the only way the UK can leave the EU is without a Deal or with a Deal which includes staying in the Customs Union without hanging Northern Ireland out to dry. With the numbers released today of the financial costs and having to explain the contingencies for not running out of toilet paper* in Parliament by a compatriot this afternoon, going into an Election on a No-Deal platform would be an interesting strategy and staying in the Customs Union a no no to the ERG and Brexit Party. As Claudio would say, “Let every eye negotiate for itself and trust no agent” *been benign on stockpiling up to now but may now buy a bumper pack of Andrex, never been European enough to understand the delights of a bidet and may now be ironically driven to at least contemplate its use.He he
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Brexit
Oct 9, 2019 13:28:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 13:28:00 GMT
Luckily with Parliament being closed for a few days all sides can take stock and try to get something sorted.
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754 posts
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 9, 2019 15:51:28 GMT
I complained a while ago that the BBC was using unattributed quotes as headlines. This is misleading as it “reads” on first glance as a factual statement...it is only when you click on the headline that you see who has made the quote. I received the following reply today....pretty rubbish. I do, however, notice they have started using attributed quotes in headlines FAR more often (often PM: or No10:) ...so perhaps I wasn’t the only one to complain....now if only they stopped using gossip as most of the news.... Thank you for getting in touch about our article entitled Boris Johnson's referral to watchdog 'politically motivated' - No 10 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49862859). The article’s short headline, visible on our indexes, was: PM's referral to watchdog 'politically motivated' The words ‘politically motivated’ appear in quotes to indicate that this is a claim, rather than a fact, a standard practice in print journalism where space is limited. Where the article featured as one of the top stories on the news homepage it was also accompanied by a summary: It is alleged businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri received favourable treatment due to friendship with PM. On visiting the article, the longer headline and introduction immediately make clear that these are the words of a senior government source. The use of sources as an anonymous way to obtain or clarify information is also a well-known practice in journalism, used for many years. The BBC has specific guidelines on the use of sources: www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/fairness/guidelines#anonymityJournalists often get information from sources who do not wish to be identified and they will know their full identity and have assessed their credibility before the information they provide is used to inform our coverage. Thank you once again for getting in touch.
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5,707 posts
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Post by lynette on Oct 9, 2019 18:37:44 GMT
Just to continue to lower the tone of the discussion and to bring some comfort to Neil, I expect there will be some enterprising entrepreneurs who import Japanese toilets for our delight. So we can buy them and forget about Andrex puppies...so to speak.
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