Brexit

My final post on this subject. Loving Europeans (or loving people from any other continent) is not a reason in itself for wanting to be ruled by an unelected, and therefore totally unrepresentative minority, who happen to hide behind a particular idea of Europe as the only way in which we as a continent can cooperate and be better together.

When the current EU collapses, and it will happen because those with the power to reform it have no interest in doing so, maybe a new structure will be put in place which achieves prosperity and fairness without pomp and waste.

Liverpool and Manchester both voted remain with 60% majorities

Only the freeloading whores.

I wish.

Oh yes, please, throw all those Germans out. They're the wurst.

The European Parliament is elected, as is our Parliament. Since our Parliament operates first-past-the-post, it is actually less representative than the European Parliament.

If you are referring to the European Commission, they are like our Civil Service, also not elected, (and often wielding more real power than our elected representatives, as I know from the documentary series, "Yes Minister" starring Nigel Hawthorne). However, since the European Commission are answerable to the European Parliament, that is not undemocratic, just as our use of an unelected Civil Service is not undemocratic.

The other body we have in this Country, the House of Lords, is totally undemocratic and unelected, whereas in Europe, the second body, the Council of Ministers, consists entirely of elected representatives.

Europe has more democracy and representation than we do.

If what you actually object to is having to listen to the views of 27 other countries, that is your prerogative. And I take your point that the current EU will collapse some day. But everything will collapse some day: every power, every land mass, every union, every family, every person, we will all collapse some day.

I prefer to keep alive institutions that provide opportunities for cooperation among us, and the EU standing together is a greater force to resist tyranny elsewhere (and within) than it is torn apart.

The fact that the majority of expert opinion is that we are shooting ourselves in the foot economically by leaving the EU also weighs on me. Of course, experts may not be right, but their opinion is better than guesses.

The idea that "pomp" will be ended people who wield pompous words like "sovereignty" seems unlikely.

Maybe "waste" will be reduced by Brexit. Well, it will have to be, because if the experts are right, the permananent contraction of the economy may mean there is precious little left to waste.

Ah, I was hoping for no comments on my last comment! Best make it the pehultimate comment.

I will only raise one point which deals with a point of fac,s not opinion: the European Commission has a MONOPOLY on initiating legislation, therefore all European legislation either starts from an unelected body or is subject to its pre-approval.

Andy Burnham ‏@andyburnhammp 4h4 hours ago London, England
We did it! Commons votes by 245-2 to secure status of EU nationals in the UK. Govt can't now retreat on this. Thanks to everyone who helped.

Fair play mate and you are very very welcome here. But my feeling could change if Australia did win the Eurovision Song Contest. Only kidding.

I know we have several people on here from our European neighbours so how is this in your country?ndo you have a influx of EU citizens from other countries other than your own? How is this be reported in your press? Is your country likely to follow suit?

Thank you Phantom of London for your kind words.

Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

The fact that Australia is even in the Eurovision is just hysterical! Let me tell you a LOT of money changed hands for that to happen. That girl had a set of lungs though!

(Obviously) I'm here, so I'm not too sure how Brexit is reported over there, but I do know it is getting loads of coverage.

To answer your question, because our geographical location and proximity to both New Zealand and Asia (particularly in the cities and suburbs) we have a lot of Asians (Orientals). In fact  in Sydney, where I'm from, there are parts where if you're not Oriental, you're in the minority.  That said, in every state and territory, we have nationalities from literally every country in the world. Most of the British ex-pats are based in Perth. But that's diversity!

We do have lots of problems with 'boat people'; almost on a daily basis, trying to enter the country illegally and our Border Patrol are very busy people. And the toughness and scrutiny of our Border and Immigration are world famous.

Thank you again for your support.