4,631 posts
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 19:45:34 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 3, 2016 19:45:34 GMT
I wonder what would happen if - over night - all EU citizens currently working in UK just left and went home. Every coffee shop will shut. So no skinny latte or flat white.
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Post by Nicholas on Jul 3, 2016 19:55:27 GMT
Well, thank god we're not kowtowing to an unelected minority anymore.
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 20:07:08 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 3, 2016 20:07:08 GMT
Well, thank god we're not kowtowing to an unelected minority anymore.
Always wondered what happened to Tory Boy
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2,206 posts
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 20:08:55 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 3, 2016 20:08:55 GMT
The thing about this referendum is that it has - rightly or wrongly - become a London vs. the rest of England argument. I saw the Almeida's tweet about how it likes to transcend the borders of nationalism. Funny, as it rarely transcends the borders of London. Liverpool and Manchester both voted remain with 60% majorities
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4,799 posts
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 3, 2016 20:21:35 GMT
Does this mean we get to send home the German and the Greek currently living in Buckingham Palace? It seems only fair, if racist halfwits are trying to get rid of Poles and Romanians.
(More than anything else in the world I want it to turn out that Nigel Farage was adopted from a Turkish orphanage.)
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4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 3, 2016 20:28:41 GMT
Only the freeloading whores.
I wish.
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443 posts
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Brexit
Jul 3, 2016 20:44:31 GMT
Post by theatreliker on Jul 3, 2016 20:44:31 GMT
The thing about this referendum is that it has - rightly or wrongly - become a London vs. the rest of England argument. I saw the Almeida's tweet about how it likes to transcend the borders of nationalism. Funny, as it rarely transcends the borders of London. Liverpool and Manchester both voted remain with 60% majorities Yep, as did where I'm from but with not that large a percentage. But that's one of the many perceived binaries.
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4,369 posts
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Post by Michael on Jul 4, 2016 4:14:28 GMT
Does this mean we get to send home the German and the Greek currently living in Buckingham Palace? It seems only fair, if racist halfwits are trying to get rid of Poles and Romanians. Oh yes, please, throw all those Germans out. They're the wurst.
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4,369 posts
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 9:31:38 GMT
Post by Michael on Jul 4, 2016 9:31:38 GMT
(More than anything else in the world I want it to turn out that Nigel Farage was adopted from a Turkish orphanage.) And he is no more ... head of the UKIP, that is.
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1,199 posts
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Post by Steve on Jul 4, 2016 10:19:44 GMT
My final post on this subject. Loving Europeans (or loving people from any other continent) is not a reason in itself for wanting to be ruled by an unelected, and therefore totally unrepresentative minority, who happen to hide behind a particular idea of Europe as the only way in which we as a continent can cooperate and be better together. When the current EU collapses, and it will happen because those with the power to reform it have no interest in doing so, maybe a new structure will be put in place which achieves prosperity and fairness without pomp and waste. The European Parliament is elected, as is our Parliament. Since our Parliament operates first-past-the-post, it is actually less representative than the European Parliament. If you are referring to the European Commission, they are like our Civil Service, also not elected, (and often wielding more real power than our elected representatives, as I know from the documentary series, "Yes Minister" starring Nigel Hawthorne). However, since the European Commission are answerable to the European Parliament, that is not undemocratic, just as our use of an unelected Civil Service is not undemocratic. The other body we have in this Country, the House of Lords, is totally undemocratic and unelected, whereas in Europe, the second body, the Council of Ministers, consists entirely of elected representatives. Europe has more democracy and representation than we do. If what you actually object to is having to listen to the views of 27 other countries, that is your prerogative. And I take your point that the current EU will collapse some day. But everything will collapse some day: every power, every land mass, every union, every family, every person, we will all collapse some day. I prefer to keep alive institutions that provide opportunities for cooperation among us, and the EU standing together is a greater force to resist tyranny elsewhere (and within) than it is torn apart. The fact that the majority of expert opinion is that we are shooting ourselves in the foot economically by leaving the EU also weighs on me. Of course, experts may not be right, but their opinion is better than guesses. The idea that "pomp" will be ended people who wield pompous words like "sovereignty" seems unlikely. Maybe "waste" will be reduced by Brexit. Well, it will have to be, because if the experts are right, the permananent contraction of the economy may mean there is precious little left to waste.
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4,799 posts
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 4, 2016 10:22:59 GMT
(More than anything else in the world I want it to turn out that Nigel Farage was adopted from a Turkish orphanage.) And he is no more ... head of the UKIP, that is. How surprising. I get the impression that he and others were planning to ride high on the reputation of being the plucky losers, but now they're in the unfortunate position of having won they need to get out as quickly as possible so they don't have to deal with the fallout from all their promises being calculated lies that they've always known were undeliverable.
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1,177 posts
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Brexit
Jul 4, 2016 17:12:46 GMT
Post by joem on Jul 4, 2016 17:12:46 GMT
Ah, I was hoping for no comments on my last comment! Best make it the pehultimate comment.
I will only raise one point which deals with a point of fac,s not opinion: the European Commission has a MONOPOLY on initiating legislation, therefore all European legislation either starts from an unelected body or is subject to its pre-approval.
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1,199 posts
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Post by Steve on Jul 5, 2016 7:39:35 GMT
Ah, I was hoping for no comments on my last comment! Best make it the pehultimate comment. I will only raise one point which deals with a point of fac,s not opinion: the European Commission has a MONOPOLY on initiating legislation, therefore all European legislation either starts from an unelected body or is subject to its pre-approval. In September, we will have an unelected Prime Minister, who will sit with an unelected Cabinet, to determine the agenda of the UK. That is considered democratic because we voted for the MPs who choose these unelected people. By the same token, the European Commission set the European agenda because they are nominated by the Council of Ministers, and voted in by the European Parliament, our elected representatives. So the unelected body that determines the European agenda for 5 years, is similar to our own unelected body that sets our own agenda for 5 years. You make a good point though, that it is not possible in Europe to table "private member's bills" to be voted on by the European Parliament. Of course, our own Eurosceptic leaders are the very people resisting such a possibility, as they consider the further empowering of the European Parliament, to table even MORE laws, to be an outrageous increase in the "supranational" authority of Europe. That is precisely what they don't want, an increase in the heat of the bathwater of European power. What they have always wanted, and what they have now apparently succeeded in doing, is to kill the baby in that bathwater.
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3,762 posts
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 6, 2016 21:39:27 GMT
Andy Burnham @andyburnhammp 4h4 hours ago London, England We did it! Commons votes by 245-2 to secure status of EU nationals in the UK. Govt can't now retreat on this. Thanks to everyone who helped.
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3,762 posts
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 6, 2016 21:55:26 GMT
(Hopefully) that's me sorted. Whilst an Aussie (despite my physical appearance) and not being a highly skilled worked, I am here on an EU Passport- 11 years on the first week of December and (as crazy as this may seem to all of you) I don't want to go back to Sydney. London is now my home.
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4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 6, 2016 23:45:06 GMT
Fair play mate and you are very very welcome here. But my feeling could change if Australia did win the Eurovision Song Contest. Only kidding.
I know we have several people on here from our European neighbours so how is this in your country?ndo you have a influx of EU citizens from other countries other than your own? How is this be reported in your press? Is your country likely to follow suit?
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Brexit
Jul 7, 2016 9:41:40 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jul 7, 2016 9:41:40 GMT
Andrea Leadsom: "I truly believe we can be the greatest nation on earth."
What about in the solar system, Andrea?
And the galaxy?
And our universe?
And to infinity and beyond?
Anyway, which nation was she talking about? The UK is a state which comprises four nations (well, three and a quarter, actually) : England, Wales, Scotland and the North of Ireland.
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3,762 posts
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Brexit
Jul 8, 2016 17:18:55 GMT
Post by anthony40 on Jul 8, 2016 17:18:55 GMT
Fair play mate and you are very very welcome here. But my feeling could change if Australia did win the Eurovision Song Contest. Only kidding. I know we have several people on here from our European neighbours so how is this in your country?ndo you have a influx of EU citizens from other countries other than your own? How is this be reported in your press? Is your country likely to follow suit? Thank you Phantom of London for your kind words. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding. The fact that Australia is even in the Eurovision is just hysterical! Let me tell you a LOT of money changed hands for that to happen. That girl had a set of lungs though! (Obviously) I'm here, so I'm not too sure how Brexit is reported over there, but I do know it is getting loads of coverage. To answer your question, because our geographical location and proximity to both New Zealand and Asia (particularly in the cities and suburbs) we have a lot of Asians (Orientals). In fact in Sydney, where I'm from, there are parts where if you're not Oriental, you're in the minority. That said, in every state and territory, we have nationalities from literally every country in the world. Most of the British ex-pats are based in Perth. But that's diversity! We do have lots of problems with 'boat people'; almost on a daily basis, trying to enter the country illegally and our Border Patrol are very busy people. And the toughness and scrutiny of our Border and Immigration are world famous. Thank you again for your support.
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2,206 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 8, 2016 22:13:02 GMT
(Hopefully) that's me sorted. Whilst an Aussie (despite my physical appearance) and not being a highly skilled worked, I am here on an EU Passport- 11 years on the first week of December and (as crazy as this may seem to all of you) I don't want to go back to Sydney. London is now my home. I'll marry you Anthony
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3,762 posts
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Brexit
Jul 8, 2016 22:36:21 GMT
Post by anthony40 on Jul 8, 2016 22:36:21 GMT
(Hopefully) that's me sorted. Whilst an Aussie (despite my physical appearance) and not being a highly skilled worked, I am here on an EU Passport- 11 years on the first week of December and (as crazy as this may seem to all of you) I don't want to go back to Sydney. London is now my home. I'll marry you Anthony Aww thank you theglrenbucklaird
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4,631 posts
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Brexit
Jul 8, 2016 23:17:00 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 8, 2016 23:17:00 GMT
You hear a lot that the conservatives want to replicate the Australian immigration system with a point based system, then if you are qualified enough you enter, I don't know how effective this is in Australia?
Australia is meant to be tough on illegal entrants, with immigration detention centres, how true this it is I don't know? With rapid deportation. The boat people are the equivalent to our migrants at Calais, which you don't hear too much of now. I assume the boat people are from Indonesia? A lot of these people are like people entering Britian, not because they are persecuted but because they see the UK/Australia as the land of milk and honey. At times do Australia turn a blind eye and grant citizenship and deport a token few people to appear tough on immigration, but in reality that aren't?
Of course there is 2 sides to every story and you have to look at the entire picture objectionable, this week when I was on a train approaching Cardiff Bay station, you could see social housing, with a big immigrant population this would upset local people, but then you give housing to local people and they just trash the place, so it is a no win situation - so you can begin to see why the local people voted Brexit. Also if you want to get rid of something, just give it to people who don't deserve it, in many people's perceptions.
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Brexit
Jul 8, 2016 23:38:53 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jul 8, 2016 23:38:53 GMT
The boat people are the equivalent to our migrants at Calais, Many "boat people" are refugees, unlike the British boat people who arrived a few generations ago and destroyed most of the indigenous Aborigenal peoples.
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Post by Coated on Jul 9, 2016 1:08:48 GMT
I've decided to give up theatre for the summer and just watch the delightfully surreal political drama unfolding in the Tory party instead. Leadsom's relationship with reality alone equates a month worth of watching farce interspersed with kitchen sink dramas, let alone the wannabe Macbeths, disposed Kings and pretenders worthy of Shakespeare as re-imagined by Dad's Army
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4,799 posts
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 9, 2016 5:55:17 GMT
they see the UK[...] as the land of milk and honey Don't they do any research before trying to get here?
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209 posts
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Post by Flim Flam on Jul 9, 2016 7:57:57 GMT
I've decided to give up theatre for the summer and just watch the delightfully surreal political drama unfolding in the Tory party instead. Leadsom's relationship with reality alone equates a month worth of watching farce interspersed with kitchen sink dramas, let alone the wannabe Macbeths, disposed Kings and pretenders worthy of Shakespeare as re-imagined by Dad's Army Well, all these shenanigans certainly made Richard III seem pretty topical when I saw it recently. Now there's somebody who really knows how to put in a leadership bid.
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2016 9:49:58 GMT
Late to this debate but feel very let down by the 18-24 age group where only 36% voted at all and so swung the vote to Leave.
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4,631 posts
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 16:26:24 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 9, 2016 16:26:24 GMT
It is fair to say the older people were more on the side of Brexit and the Brexit people were more determined to vote, come what may, as Europe caused them the most angst. Also on the day of the vote there were flash votes that knocked out parts of the Underground and National Rail, so people may be intentioned to vote, but after a ordeal of a commute home, couldn't be bothered. This country needs to become more democratic and give people a better opportunity to vote and have the polling booths open for at least 72 hours.
Awful only 36% of youngsters bothered to vote, you would of thought that these would be the demographic that voted. Anyway we live in a democratic country where you have the right to vote, but more importantly the right not to vote.
All what leaving Europe means, we don't pay to be in the EU, so therefore we will have no MEP's to vote down decisions, but I bet this country still follows laws from the EU and pass their laws through parliament.
As the eminent Mark Carney said 'he hasn't lied to the British people'.
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 16:35:41 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jul 9, 2016 16:35:41 GMT
I have just discovered that I grew up less than half a mile from the border of Andrea Leadsom's constituency!
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Post by d'James on Jul 9, 2016 16:45:21 GMT
I have just discovered that I grew up less than half a mile from the border of Andrea Leadsom's constituency! It could be worse. You could currently live less than half a mile from Boris Johnson's constituency.
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 16:55:48 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jul 9, 2016 16:55:48 GMT
Yes, HS2 is planned to whizz through the nearest (to me) part of Andrea Leadsom's constituency, straight through the middle of an historic battlefield site and, it is thought likely, the "lost" resultant mass graves.
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