5,062 posts
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Brexit
Jul 8, 2016 23:17:00 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 8, 2016 23:17:00 GMT
You hear a lot that the conservatives want to replicate the Australian immigration system with a point based system, then if you are qualified enough you enter, I don't know how effective this is in Australia?
Australia is meant to be tough on illegal entrants, with immigration detention centres, how true this it is I don't know? With rapid deportation. The boat people are the equivalent to our migrants at Calais, which you don't hear too much of now. I assume the boat people are from Indonesia? A lot of these people are like people entering Britian, not because they are persecuted but because they see the UK/Australia as the land of milk and honey. At times do Australia turn a blind eye and grant citizenship and deport a token few people to appear tough on immigration, but in reality that aren't?
Of course there is 2 sides to every story and you have to look at the entire picture objectionable, this week when I was on a train approaching Cardiff Bay station, you could see social housing, with a big immigrant population this would upset local people, but then you give housing to local people and they just trash the place, so it is a no win situation - so you can begin to see why the local people voted Brexit. Also if you want to get rid of something, just give it to people who don't deserve it, in many people's perceptions.
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Brexit
Jul 8, 2016 23:38:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 23:38:53 GMT
The boat people are the equivalent to our migrants at Calais, Many "boat people" are refugees, unlike the British boat people who arrived a few generations ago and destroyed most of the indigenous Aborigenal peoples. |
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Post by Coated on Jul 9, 2016 1:08:48 GMT
I've decided to give up theatre for the summer and just watch the delightfully surreal political drama unfolding in the Tory party instead. Leadsom's relationship with reality alone equates a month worth of watching farce interspersed with kitchen sink dramas, let alone the wannabe Macbeths, disposed Kings and pretenders worthy of Shakespeare as re-imagined by Dad's Army
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 5:55:17 GMT
they see the UK[...] as the land of milk and honey Don't they do any research before trying to get here? |
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209 posts
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Post by Flim Flam on Jul 9, 2016 7:57:57 GMT
I've decided to give up theatre for the summer and just watch the delightfully surreal political drama unfolding in the Tory party instead. Leadsom's relationship with reality alone equates a month worth of watching farce interspersed with kitchen sink dramas, let alone the wannabe Macbeths, disposed Kings and pretenders worthy of Shakespeare as re-imagined by Dad's Army Well, all these shenanigans certainly made Richard III seem pretty topical when I saw it recently. Now there's somebody who really knows how to put in a leadership bid. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2016 9:49:58 GMT
Late to this debate but feel very let down by the 18-24 age group where only 36% voted at all and so swung the vote to Leave.
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5,062 posts
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 16:26:24 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 9, 2016 16:26:24 GMT
It is fair to say the older people were more on the side of Brexit and the Brexit people were more determined to vote, come what may, as Europe caused them the most angst. Also on the day of the vote there were flash votes that knocked out parts of the Underground and National Rail, so people may be intentioned to vote, but after a ordeal of a commute home, couldn't be bothered. This country needs to become more democratic and give people a better opportunity to vote and have the polling booths open for at least 72 hours.
Awful only 36% of youngsters bothered to vote, you would of thought that these would be the demographic that voted. Anyway we live in a democratic country where you have the right to vote, but more importantly the right not to vote.
All what leaving Europe means, we don't pay to be in the EU, so therefore we will have no MEP's to vote down decisions, but I bet this country still follows laws from the EU and pass their laws through parliament.
As the eminent Mark Carney said 'he hasn't lied to the British people'.
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 16:35:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 16:35:41 GMT
I have just discovered that I grew up less than half a mile from the border of Andrea Leadsom's constituency!
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Post by d'James on Jul 9, 2016 16:45:21 GMT
I have just discovered that I grew up less than half a mile from the border of Andrea Leadsom's constituency! It could be worse. You could currently live less than half a mile from Boris Johnson's constituency. |
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 16:55:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 16:55:48 GMT
Yes, HS2 is planned to whizz through the nearest (to me) part of Andrea Leadsom's constituency, straight through the middle of an historic battlefield site and, it is thought likely, the "lost" resultant mass graves.
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 17:32:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 17:32:15 GMT
What annoyed me on LBC the day after, was some 18 year old whinging that "Young people are online and don't know what to do." Well, I thought, you get a personally addressed postcard, telling you EVERYTHING you need to know about how to vote. There was a leaflet earlier too, and a website with adverts after "Hollyoaks" etc. And if the worst comes to the worst they could always ask someone. But I don't believe that excuse. It sounds like someone who couldn't be bothered and was trying to make up something that sounded better than "I'm a complete waste of space and I don't care about anything but my immediate needs". Putting an X on a piece of paper isn't something that should be a challenge. |
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5,062 posts
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 17:38:21 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 9, 2016 17:38:21 GMT
This country needs to become more democratic and give people a better opportunity to vote and have the polling booths open for at least 72 hours. Awful only 36% of youngsters bothered to vote, you would of thought that these would be the demographic that voted. Anyway we live in a democratic country where you have the right to vote, but more importantly the right not to vote. What annoyed me on LBC the day after, was some 18 year old whinging that "Young people are online and don't know what to do." Well, I thought, you get a personally addressed postcard, telling you EVERYTHING you need to know about how to vote. There was a leaflet earlier too, and a website with adverts after "Hollyoaks" etc. Bearing in mind that polling stations are usually schools, village halls, scout huts and other places every young person has used or passes daily in their own community, it isn't that hard to participate, I'd think. I'm afraid I was almost on the point of shouting at the radio "if you can't follow a postcard AND know your own local area, are you clever enough to take part in this vote anyway." But I didn't, as a) it would have been unfair and b) I might have disturbed the neighbours. But still... Hi five Monkey, a fellow LBC listener. |
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2,761 posts
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Post by n1david on Jul 9, 2016 18:05:45 GMT
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2,340 posts
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 18:37:59 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 9, 2016 18:37:59 GMT
Late to this debate but feel very let down by the 18-24 age group where only 36% voted at all and so swung the vote to Leave. Is that true? Wow, amazed |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 19:14:57 GMT
Late to this debate but feel very let down by the 18-24 age group where only 36% voted at all and so swung the vote to Leave. More recent polling suggests it wss more than double that, in line with all ages up to 55, its only above that when turnout goes rapidly up. It's almost as though holding elections on working days depresses turnout for working people (irony alert). I'm a supporter of Saturday voting myself (or a bank holiday for an election day which would be even better!) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 20:02:52 GMT
It's almost as though holding elections on working days depresses turnout for working people I can't believe it's that difficult for people to vote in most areas. The polling stations open at 07:00 and close at 22:00 and there are loads of them around: roughly one for every thousand people. Most people could find twenty minutes to go round at some point in the day, and there's always the option of postal votes in unusual situations. There will be a few cases where something comes up at the last moment, but not ten million of them. |
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736 posts
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Brexit
Jul 9, 2016 22:04:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by dippy on Jul 9, 2016 22:04:45 GMT
It's almost as though holding elections on working days depresses turnout for working people I can't believe it's that difficult for people to vote in most areas. The polling stations open at 07:00 and close at 22:00 and there are loads of them around: roughly one for every thousand people. Most people could find twenty minutes to go round at some point in the day, and there's always the option of postal votes in unusual situations. There will be a few cases where something comes up at the last moment, but not ten million of them. Yes, most people really should be able to find some time. I work really long hours but they decided that we needed to have an early start so that people could get home. Ended up working from 6:30 to 20:30 (followed by a 45 minute journey home) which would have given me time if I'd not already set up a proxy. I'm half Swiss so vote there quite often, not on everything since I don't always know enough about the referendum in question. Their polls are open on Saturdays and Sundays closing at midday on the Sunday. I've always thought this is quite sensible. I don't think I've ever been to a Swiss polling station though, even when I lived there because you are sent everything you need for a postal vote and it's what loads of people do. Living here I also got to be part of an e-vote trial which I thought was great. For some reason it's been stopped now but you just had to fill in some information and then you could vote online, piece of cake. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 4:23:02 GMT
I'm strongly opposed to the idea of electronic voting. It suffers from a fundamental problem: there's no record of what you actually voted, only of what the system thinks you voted, and that difference is far more important than it sounds. It's the same problem that biometric identification suffers from: a computer can't examine your fingerprint or retina, but can only examine the electronic representation of your fingerprint or retina returned by the hardware. Insert a false signal early enough in the process and nobody will ever know.
The advantage of a piece of paper is that you can store it and look at it again later. It's slow and tedious and low-tech, but it does record the actual vote.
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Post by d'James on Jul 10, 2016 4:33:21 GMT
I tend to agree with you Matthew but I do think the fact you have to go to a certain place to vote is very dated. We should all be able to vote wherever we want. That should be electronic, the electoral register, and yes, you should have to provide ID. If my job happens to send me to Hull for work last minute, I should be able to vote there. If I'm eligible to vote, then I'm eligible to vote, wherever I am (within the country).
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Brexit
Jul 10, 2016 9:47:39 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 9:47:39 GMT
I'm similarly wary of electronic voting and the use of it in America and who controls the machines only confirms that fear.
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Brexit
Jul 10, 2016 10:07:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Jan on Jul 10, 2016 10:07:39 GMT
Scanning the Twitter feeds I didn't see a single actor, director or theatre administrator in London backing Brexit - in fact one director hijacked his own official theatre Twitter account to push out ridiculously overwrought stuff ("Weep") rather than using his personal accounts. As on average 40% in London backed Brexit do we not think this significant minority will be under-represented when new plays get commissioned and so on ?
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1,500 posts
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Brexit
Jul 10, 2016 17:21:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Steve on Jul 10, 2016 17:21:28 GMT
Scanning the Twitter feeds I didn't see a single actor, director or theatre administrator in London backing Brexit - in fact one director hijacked his own official theatre Twitter account to push out ridiculously overwrought stuff ("Weep") rather than using his personal accounts. As on average 40% in London backed Brexit do we not think this significant minority will be under-represented when new plays get commissioned and so on ? I don't think so. Good art tends to look at both sides of any issue. Any play that is a simple polemic for one side or the other sounds awful. Even the idea that a voter is pro or anti Brexit is a matter of degrees. As a Remain voter, I also had reasons to vote Brexit, just less compelling ones. Futhermore, the Brexit voters are not a homogenous group. The Brexit supporters who wished for the freedom to dismantle the system of social protections and human "rights" that the EU represents are very different from those who sought protection from the EU market, with a view to restricting job competition from immigrants, who are different again from those who wanted to give the political classes a kicking. So Brexit supporters are not really a group at all, as such, and reflecting their many myriad concerns will be imperative for any worthy artistic response, regardless of how Theatre makers may themselves have voted. |
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5,062 posts
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Brexit
Jul 10, 2016 18:12:20 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 10, 2016 18:12:20 GMT
The security guys in my work, work 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, they probably have 2 hour commute, so guess what by the time they finish work after 14 hours, they do not feel like voting.
It's right you should have polling booths open for 72 hours, one of these say good be a bank holiday,mood suggestion earlier on.
For demorcracy to work and be fair, you have to give people the opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2016 18:54:18 GMT
People who can't get to a polling station for whatever reason do have other options though - postal vote or proxy vote.
I've had a postal vote for years, despite being a fit and healthy now 40-year-old who (since moving house) happens to have a polling station just up the road. But it's easier for me to pop an envelope in the post and I'm usually fairly certain ahead of time which way I'll vote (though Brexit was down to the wire, I admit). Even if I'm not, I'm reasonably sure I can drop it off in a polling station on the day.
There really is no excuse for not voting. It just takes a bit of planning ahead. I think it's assumed that by the time you're old enough to vote, you're capable of a bit of planning. ;-)
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923 posts
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Brexit
Jul 11, 2016 10:52:09 GMT
Post by Snciole on Jul 11, 2016 10:52:09 GMT
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