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Post by paulbrownsey on Apr 2, 2024 20:18:17 GMT
If people wish to stand to applaud it is a personal choice I feel also you have to stand up to leave if you are able bodied so you can combine the two if needed. I've known people who might have a tight train to get they know about in advance to try and book a seat near an isle so they can make a quick getaway. But not everyone is a hardened theatre goer like a lot of us on here who often know the quickest ways out. For example I've seen people come out of side doors just around the corner from the main entrance and they seem totally lost. A big pet peeve of mine is people stood talking in the rows after the shows and not allowing those next to them to start making their way out or stopping to check their phone. Of course make sure you have everything but we have check phone, put phone in bag, pick up scarf, put scarf on pick up coat put coat on, do it up, chat to person with them before they move from the spot. Of course some people cannot move as fast as others and older less mobile people have to be considered but these dawdlers are often younger, fit people. All we want is a steady, ordered exit. "If people wish to stand to applaud it is a personal choice" I see: selfishness is a 'personal; choice'. Blocking other people's view is fine if you choose to do it.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Apr 2, 2024 20:17:03 GMT
A standing ovation has not only become fairly common/normal, but to many it's a sign of a good, successful show, especially to the actors, creatives and producers. Whether or not all shows that get them are deserving of them is a different discussion, but I wouldn't consider them "bad behaviour". People insisting on pushing their way out of rows during bows is a minor pet peeve. Still annoying, and I think a lot of the people who do it are usually less concerned about trains and more concerned about "beating the rush" and getting out before everyone else. " I wouldn't consider them "bad behaviour"." So blocking the view of other people by leaping to yopur feet isn't bad behaviour. Hmm.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Apr 2, 2024 20:16:05 GMT
Isn’t it a case of ‘expected behaviours’? Whilst yes, someone standing up to give an ovation will block the view of the person behind them (assuming they choose not to give a standing ovation themselves, or perhaps are unable to stand), they go in knowing that if the show’s good enough, people may stand up to applaud at the end. And I guess for those unable to stand, they have the option to book a front row seat to avoid the problem. But the people having to push down the row to leave early (even if it’s during the curtain call) disrupt and distract other audience members from what’s happening on stage. You could also argue it’s rude to the actors on stage who’ve likely worked their socks off for the last couple of hours, yet these people are in so much of a hurry to leave they can’t stay and applaud them. However, rushing for a train is of course entirely possible and therefore we probably have to give them the benefit of the doubt. "they go in knowing that...people may stand up to applaud at the end" But if "knowing that X may happen" is OK to excuse the behaviour, then we can say that if you go to the theatre knowing that drunken patrons may be singing away in your ear, then drunken patrons singing away in your ear is OK. "they have the option to book a front row seat to avoid the problem." Front seats are often among the most expensive, so you are proposing what is in effect a tax on physically disabled people going to the theatre just to accommodate the look-at-me-leaping-to-my-feet brigade.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Apr 2, 2024 9:40:39 GMT
If it's rude to block people's view of the bows by leaving during the bows to get a train, it's also rude to block people's view of the bows by standing to give a standing ovation so that the person behind can only see your back. They’re similar, but not the same. One disrupts a whole row, one does not. Oh, so it's OK to block one person's view. The person behind has to tell himself or herself, "I've no ground for complaint here because the poerson next to the one standing in front of me isn't standing."
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Post by paulbrownsey on Apr 2, 2024 9:05:02 GMT
Could be a matter of a train to catch... Well the show didn't start late or anything, so it's just bad planning and downright rude. If it's rude to block people's view of the bows by leaving during the bows to get a train, it's also rude to block people's view of the bows by standing to give a standing ovation so that the person behind can only see your back.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Apr 1, 2024 9:51:26 GMT
At Starter For Ten, Thursday matinee. People got up to leave, making everyone else move out the way, as the cast were bowing. Could be a matter of a train to catch...
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Post by paulbrownsey on Mar 13, 2024 19:26:48 GMT
Doesn't this mean that no-one could go to the theatre who didn't live their life on a mobile phone?
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 16, 2023 12:29:01 GMT
The sorts of things people here complain about in theatres are now being extended to concert halls--by management decree. According to the Slipped Disc site, new management at the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra is proposing (as part of a new "vision") to allow people to bring drinks into the auditorium and to film concerts. They haven't mentioned la-la-ing along or pretending to conduct, but somehow one doubts that sort of thing will be clamped down on...
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 5, 2023 20:04:05 GMT
This will be a darker version Hands up everyone… who wants a “darker” version of Hello Dolly? Dolly's situation is pretty desperate--all sorts of shifts to get the money to survive. On the surface it all sounds fun and quaint, but really...? As for Irene, millinery used to be associated with prostitution... Google it!
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 5, 2023 19:58:31 GMT
Ah, so schoolteachers still go in for mass punishments. Having been a non-offending child who often suffered under them, I still think they're rotten. One of our teachers used to try the 'everyone in detention for one offender' thing and I basically started a revolt at 14 by saying I wouldn't be staying and offering to go to the head teacher's office to talk about it. The class (barring the offender) went home on time. Oh, well done! In 1956, I was standing at a bus stop in Worcester for my bus home at the end of my day at Worcester Royal Grammar School. There were five other boys at the stop. A master nicknamed Jake walked past. He turned back. "One of you used my nickname. Who was it?" Silence. "Very well. You are all in detention." (At that point someone owned up; whether he was the real evil-doer I don't know--perhaps he was an altruist who sacrificed himself, Jesus-like, for the rest of us.) In the theatre scenario described, it seems that, had I been one of the children, though I might have been scrupulous to pick up all my litter and have picked up some litter dropped by others, I was still liable to punishment because some litter was still on the floor. Nasty teacher.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 5, 2023 10:43:10 GMT
We have bins in all the foyers, ushers patrolling the auditorium with bin bags in the interval, and ushers on every door with bin bags at the end of the show. The auditorium is still an absolute state and takes the ushers ages to do the pick-up - absolutely knackering, especially on a 3-show Saturday. My favourite group who came to see a show was a school group - at the end of the show the teacher bellowed "RIGHT YOU LOT! I want all your rubbish picked up, if there's anything left you'll be in detention for the week, and I want to see you with one piece of someone else's rubbish too, let's show the staff how much we value them!" I asked her if she could come back for all performances :-) Ah, so schoolteachers still go in for mass punishments. Having been a non-offending child who often suffered under them, I still think they're rotten.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 29, 2023 14:22:42 GMT
"It comes from the computer programming world..." What about "meta" in "metaphysics" and "metaethics"? "metaethics" doesn't appear to have made Chambers yet, so possibly quite new. Both are seemingly used in a similar sense, i.e. being about the principles underlying the thing to which they prefix. It's been a standard term in philosophy for, oh, around 60 years, at least.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 29, 2023 13:04:22 GMT
"It comes from the computer programming world..."
What about "meta" in "metaphysics" and "metaethics"?
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 6, 2023 15:50:04 GMT
Atypical of our current, disgusting government. Just wanting to check you’re not equating what I wrote with them? Before I involve Admins… "I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right." That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down. I was drawing attention to a bizarre mode of reasoning exemplified in both cases: "If someone insists on X, that proves that really, deep down, they think the opposite." Ultimately, it's the same reasoning as in, "Oh, I know you're saying No to me, but that just shows that deep down you really want it." Very dubious *logic* in every case.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 5, 2023 19:52:56 GMT
It would be interesting to see research on whether exposure to these sorts of protests makes people *less* sympathetic to moves to combat climate and environmental crises. If government regulations are going to make your life more difficult and/or more expensive and then you get prevented from getting to a hospital appointment or have a night out ruined by JSO protests, might there not be a tendency to think, "Oh, to hell with the whole business" and, with that, a tendency to support Sunak's watering down of relevant measures? Yes, research could be intertesting.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Oct 5, 2023 19:44:38 GMT
Yes, was thinking of exactly that moment. And Cam M’s horror captured on film for all time. He deeserves nothing less. People’s attitudes of “how DARE you ruin my evening out” are… Reading a lot of the reactions on here is actually quite scary. What did he sing in BTTF? “My myopia is my utopia.” Well, your utopia is on fire, babes. I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right. “But my night out! My night OUT!!” We’re screwed. If you're quoting BTTF, I think "...you're children are gonna love it..." would be more appropriate. JSO is a childish attempt at disruptive anarchy by people with no purpose in life - they're either silly little student kids or retired old has-beens, all of whom think soft protests will make a difference. They look decidly amateur compared to more organised groups. This is while the oil companies tolerate them, because they pose little or no threat other than to sway public opinion against their cause. JSO are the biggest threat to green goals and ambitions - rich-backer funded anarchy. It's Brexit all over again. "I think people get enraged by them because they know, deep down, that JSO are absolutely right." That reminds me of a Home Office psychiatrist many years ago who said that the more gay people insist they're gay, that shows they're really heterosexual deep down.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Aug 26, 2023 16:03:35 GMT
Let your brother know while standing in the foyer, take your seat five minutes before the show, and save the person sitting next to you from having to think, based on inductive evidence, "Oh, God, I hope this isn't going to be one of the ones who's on the phone during the show." You seem content that "causing unfound anxiety to strangers is not at all important to me". A considerate person wouldn't think like that. It is not unfounded because, alas, people playing with their phones before the start of the show often do so after, as well--that is a matter of most theatre-goers' experience. The person next to you has no advance info that you are saintly. Or perhaps you could say to them, "Be assured I won't be using this once the show starts." That would be nice. Or I could just ignore what a very strange and judgemental person on an internet forum says and continue to live a happy life? I think I’ll do that instead, Paul. Thanks for the advice though! Nothing strange about me, and as for being judgemental, well, some people's behaviour deserves to be judged. I note you are happy to be inconsiderate.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Aug 26, 2023 15:58:18 GMT
TBH if you fear other people will ruin your experience, you would never leave the house for anything and that to me is not a healthy mindset. But the number of times I have found myself next to people /phoning/munching/singing along/etc gives me a perfectly reasonably inductive basis for thinking there is a high probability that the same will happen next time I bookm a theatre seat. That is not an unhealthy mindset. That is learning by sad experience what things are like these days.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Aug 26, 2023 15:53:20 GMT
I hate it when people get up to dance. Then I can't see the actors & have to get up too. People who go in for ther modern fad of standing ovations have the same lack of consideration for those behind.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Aug 15, 2023 15:24:31 GMT
You said you *use* your phone while in your seat, not merely have it on in a bag or pocket in case an urgent call comes through before you switch it off to enjoy the show without being disturbed. If you must know, I use my phone to let my brother know I am unavailable for the next few hours so to be on standby. But I rather think you’re derailing the thread, which is a shame. Let’s move on. Let your brother know while standing in the foyer, take your seat five minutes before the show, and save the person sitting next to you from having to think, based on inductive evidence, "Oh, God, I hope this isn't going to be one of the ones who's on the phone during the show." You seem content that "causing unfound anxiety to strangers is not at all important to me". A considerate person wouldn't think like that. It is not unfounded because, alas, people playing with their phones before the start of the show often do so after, as well--that is a matter of most theatre-goers' experience. The person next to you has no advance info that you are saintly. Or perhaps you could say to them, "Be assured I won't be using this once the show starts." That would be nice.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Aug 5, 2023 15:42:10 GMT
Would it not be considerate to save them that anxiety and not use it at all once you're in your seat? No, I don’t think so Paul. You see, I have a very ill mother and being contactable is important. I have my phone on at all times, including at work - except for the few hours I get to escape into the world of theatre. Given that I’m often in my seat fifteen or more minutes prior to curtain up, and a call could come at any time, causing unfound anxiety to strangers is not at all important to me. You said you *use* your phone while in your seat, not merely have it on in a bag or pocket in case an urgent call comes through before you switch it off to enjoy the show without being disturbed.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Aug 5, 2023 9:20:08 GMT
I usually use my phone right up to lights down, then turn it off completely by the time the DSM has finished their announcement. I’ve been given very anxious looks by people as they wonder if I’m going to use my phone when the show starts. The relief is palpable as the phone slides into my pocket 🤣 Would it not be considerate to save them that anxiety and not use it at all once you're in your seat?
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Post by paulbrownsey on Feb 20, 2023 19:26:48 GMT
Letter from Walter Paul (well-known in theatre circles in Glasgow) in The Herald newspaper, Glasgow:
I WAS angry and depressed to read Brian Beacom's article with regard to the behaviour of theatre audiences in Glasgow and Edinburgh ("Whatever happened to once-polite Scots theatre audiences?", The Herald, February 14). I have always loved the theatre, be it as an audience member, a director, a performer, a "techie" or a front-of-house assistant. I saw my first theatre performance of Peter Pan at Glasgow's King's Theatre at the age of four, and likewise my first Gilbert and Sullivan opera at the Theatre Royal thanks to my mum and dad; they introduced me to the world of theatre, they bought tickets for me and my sister to join them and see wonderful performances of every type. I loved it. And I was educated by them – on what to do in the theatre, how to appreciate every member of staff, from box-office assistants helping me to buy tickets to usherettes and ushers helping me to my seat; how to behave and when to applaud; even, as I grew older, to occasionally leave a performance if I did not enjoy what was happening onstage, but to leave at the interval so that I did not disturb or annoy other members of the audience. The horrendous incidents which Mr Beacom reported sadly reflect our society just now, too, where in some instances our day to day lives are led by self-centred and ignorant people in positions of authority who attempt to tell us how to behave, but who in many cases have no intelligence nor common sense. Certainly from what Mr Beacom and others say, the Ambassador Theatre Group must take some blame for audiences' behaviour in their theatres – ban drinking if customers do not know how to behave, ban drinking inside the theatre space itself, employ more house staff who have the power to immediately evict the horrible, ignorant and selfish people who now seem to be attending theatres, especially musicals, and ban them from all future shows when they attempt to book seats. Please educate from a young age, by teaching basic manners, basic good behaviour, basic general knowledge – and introduce not only youngsters who are our future theatre audiences, but also the current audiences for every type of performance, to the wonders of the theatre, and more importantly how to behave and respect this unique experience. Walter Paul, Glasgow
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Post by paulbrownsey on Feb 12, 2023 17:18:29 GMT
a generation of audiences now that have not been taught any kind of behaviour or etiquette... It's not just theater, and I'm not sure it's generational. Part of the blame should probably go to the "be yourself" messaging that somehow has been interpreted as "nobody else matters". As a woman raised in the 1950s, I was basically programmed to not impose on others. While this can also be carried to a fault (one doesn't always have to put oneself last), it does give a grounding in being aware of others. The way theatres advertise shows contributes to the problem. Passing the King's Theatre in Glasgow yesterday, I saw a poster for a show that described it as a great "girls' night out". If you're drawn to a show because it presents itself as a "girls' night out", won't you reasonably conclude you can do the things girls do on a night out?--drink and chatter and dance and whoop and call to each other and all the rest? Likewise, the brochure for the King's, Glasgow, says of "The Cher Show": "LET'S GET THE PARTY STARTED!...You'll be spinning in the aisles to the sounds of her biggest hits." I've seen posts in this thread to the effect that some badly-behaved audinece members, when stopped by ushes, complain that what they're doing is "allowed", that they're just having a good time. Don't they have a smidgeon of right on their side, when they could quote advertising like that which I have quoted?
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Post by paulbrownsey on Feb 8, 2023 19:17:19 GMT
But what are they going to do about it ? At ABBA the ushers patrol the aisles and shine a torch in people's faces - I wish others would follow suit Edinburgh Playhouse staff also already doing this. It's the abuse they get afterwards is the problem. They sometimes do it to the wrong person. A few years ago I got a dazzling torch in my eyes when the culprit was using a mobile two or three seats along.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jan 27, 2023 10:51:46 GMT
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Post by paulbrownsey on Jan 26, 2023 9:23:20 GMT
“More than 6 times” 🤣 Wow. I would be mortified if I was told off once. They really do need to make it clearer when something is a concert where you can sing as much as you want, or a play where you’d be expected to pipe down. I've seen touring musicals advertised under such tags as "It's a party in the theatre!" and "They were dancing in the aisles!" (these meant as enticements), so sometimes miscreants might be able to claim that they were told in advance that their behaviour would be OK.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 19, 2022 15:05:37 GMT
People do realise this is bad behaviour at a show and not being a miserable sod at a show. I suspect some people would ban laughter at a comedy gig if they had their way. "Miserable sod" is sometimes an alternative way of characterising someone whose enjoyment you're spoiling by chattering, playing on your phone, leaping to your feet, etc.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 18, 2022 17:13:20 GMT
I would LOVE a “sit still & shut up” performance! Don’t know why no one does that - suspect it would be quite popular (and not just with those of us with autism!) I’d love a performance like this - no talking, no late arrivals/early exits (maybe everyone in their seats by 7.20?), no eating, applause only at the end. We could all suggest this in post-show questionnaires. I’ve been to a couple of relaxed performances by mistake. They’re a great idea, but I found it impossible to focus and enjoy the show with all that noise and movement, made worse by it not being dark. And no standing ovations.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Dec 10, 2022 11:37:01 GMT
One source of groups behaving badly might be the theatre's advertising. Looking through theatre brochures I've seen lines, presumably meant to lure people in, such as, "It's a party in the theatre!!!" and (quoting a review) "They were dancing in the aisles!!" So if people behave as if they were at a party and dance in the aisles...
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