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Post by BVM on Jul 1, 2023 13:10:06 GMT
So according to SOLT gross box-office revenue in 2022 was £892 million (£790 million, adjusted for inflation) and in 2019 was £799 million. (The two full years pre and post pandemic). Much the same.
Of course as the factors discussed in this thread really bite, figures for 2023 may come down, though my hunch is not by much.
At a gross level the west end is doing fine. I think the conversation is more about its changing landscape, changing audiences and changing demographics. (For me personally, my taste, what I want from a musical the West End has been in gradual decline for 20 odd years - but that clearly isn’t the feeling at population level).
Is there less doing well of the type of musical a theatre fan forum may want? Quite possibly. Is there less for the GBP?! Don’t think so.
I do also think (no hard evidence, based on casual observation) that the gap between musicals that take off and take millions and the ones that really don’t seems to be widening. Most of what I like falls into latter camp. So yes, to me West End musicals are less and less exciting.
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Post by max on Jul 1, 2023 15:00:25 GMT
So according to SOLT gross box-office revenue in 2022 was £892 million (£790 million, adjusted for inflation) and in 2019 was £799 million. (The two full years pre and post pandemic). Much the same. Of course as the factors discussed in this thread really bite, figures for 2023 may come down, though my hunch is not by much. At a gross level the west end is doing fine. I think the conversation is more about its changing landscape, changing audiences and changing demographics. (For me personally, my taste, what I want from a musical the West End has been in gradual decline for 20 odd years - but that clearly isn’t the feeling at population level). Is there less doing well of the type of musical a theatre fan forum may want? Quite possibly. Is there less for the GBP?! Don’t think so. I do also think (no hard evidence, based on casual observation) that the gap between musicals that take off and take millions and the ones that really don’t seems to be widening. Most of what I like falls into latter camp. So yes, to me West End musicals are less and less exciting. I think there's a lot in this. Some shows do seem to be thriving that are high concept, often involve a sense of oneness with the audience (i.e. the audience feel they're making the show), and are knowingly self-aware of their relationship with their material. 'Six', 'Heathers', 'Operation Mincemeat' to name three. Quite a bit of the audience sensation is held in the relationship to the stage and company (as much as the story material), and that winning quality can actually benefit from more sparse down-home production values - an apparent lack of taking yourself too seriously - which may be cheaper to produce if the cast isn't huge. Just because I'm less keen on those, and more keen to see what a writer or writing team want to explore in theme/story via music (without much of a self-referential wink), doesn't mean the West End is objectively failing.. It doesn't mean we'll never get a variety of shows - I should have seen 'Benjamin Button' but didn't get round to it; but fewer of those shows may feature in the West End.
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Post by mkb on Jul 1, 2023 15:08:02 GMT
One easy political solution would be for the government to bring London into line with other major European cities and have post 11pm trains to the rest of the country every night. The last Saturday night services up the West Coast Mainline are shockingly early. The policy of allowing Network Rail to take full possession every night for what increasingly seems to be restorative work rather than preventative maintenance, needs to be examined. How do other countries manage? Good luck getting the rail unions to agree to that!! Plus late night is the only realistic time aside from weekends to do engineering works. To have less work or even none is potentially dangerous. I'm not sure the unions are bothered by when engineering takes place and trains, particularly freight, already run through the night in some places. The question remains as to why the WCML uniquely requires possession from 22:30* every single night and earlier on Saturday. Why can't services start later on Sunday? If you've ever been on an early Sunday service, you'll know they're about the most lightly used. How are other lines maintained while still allowing services? As for longer planned closures, I've long advocated doing this at the least busy times which is Tuesday and Wednesday daytime. These things are usually planned at least a year in advance, so business travellers can work around such closures with plenty of notice. * - They do actually keep the two slow lines open for the last three trains to Brum, the sleeper and the local services to Northampton, and they used to run a late train to Manchester. I believe there is pathing available for better services to more destinations into the early hours if there were a political will to do it. The fact is that much of the population have been priced out of the London hotel market, and therefore public transport alternatives are needed more than ever.
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Post by shady23 on Jul 1, 2023 15:58:05 GMT
I find ticket prices increasingly confusing.
Every website/email seems to be offering different prices and "offers".
I have not got the energy to search through them all for the best price. It also makes me reluctant to book anything full price in advance as I know there will be discounts later on.
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Post by musiqualetheater on Jul 1, 2023 16:04:27 GMT
Theatre knowledge in the general public is also basically at an all time low, beyond films and tv shows being made into musicals & hollywood castings.
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Post by panda on Jul 1, 2023 16:50:06 GMT
The cost of a day/weekend trip to London to see a show is what has put me off since relocating to Manchester from London five years ago. I used to visit once a month and catch a couple of shows each time. There was a time whilst I was working in a few of the West End theatres when I had seen every show that was currently playing there, but I am less and less inspired to go and see much in London currently. I’m tempted to book for Sunset Blvd but with such fond memories of the original production, want to wait to see some production images and reports on this board before I commit to the cost. Theatre in the provinces seems far cheaper yet the quality of the productions is near identical (Crazy for You, Standing at the Skys Edge, The Wizard of Oz, The King and I) and I’m far more tempted to take a punt on a new regional production at a fraction of the cost. Have just booked a great central stalls seat in row E for Miss Saigon in Sheffield for £25, a ticket for Titanic in the centre Row E dress circle for £22 and have others planned. The bigger tours such as Hamilton, although more expensive are likely to be a copy of the London show but without the travel cost/hassle. And the days of huge spectacles that were staged in 1990’s London and unlikely to tour with the same production values are not as common nowadays, removing the ‘need’ to book. Many shows in the West End seem less lavish in design, smaller in cast and orchestra and as such not reason enough to part money for other than a few theatre visits over a few days every couple of years.
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Post by max on Jul 1, 2023 17:40:01 GMT
I find ticket prices increasingly confusing. Every website/email seems to be offering different prices and "offers". I have not got the energy to search through them all for the best price. It also makes me reluctant to book anything full price in advance as I know there will be discounts later on. Yes! This reminds me of when I havered over whether to buy a minidisc player, which one and what price. By the time I'd dithered over competing information they were obsolete and discontinued. 😆. ... which I have to say was a great money saver
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Post by justsaying113 on Jul 2, 2023 7:45:51 GMT
I wonder when (or, indeed, if) there's a tipping point with a resistance to West End pricing? Maybe certain people will always pay huge sums for something they really want to see (i.e. 'A Little Life') but is that sustainable?
I go to the theatre far less frequently that I used to and I'm also less likely to take a punt. I get the economics of production and the sheer costs of running a show and a venue, but I just can't see how - with mortgage rates still possibly to peak - things are sustainable. Of course, it's not just theatre and the arts. Flight prices are too heading towards a point of were they may become "exclusive", and I belong to an expensive gym and have for years and I've never seen it as quiet as it's been the past couple of months.
I don't feel positive about the immediate future for discretionary spend items and services.
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Post by SuttonPeron on Jul 2, 2023 9:12:34 GMT
The one good thing about West End prices I will say, is that the majority of venues seem respect the two cheapest pricing tiers everyday, including weekends. Not that this is much anyways, but in some other countries this doesn´t happen.
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 2, 2023 9:35:21 GMT
And yet well known bloggers, mentioning no names, will give something incredibly niche like "A Strange Loop" something like 5 stars...
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 2, 2023 9:36:45 GMT
I wonder when (or, indeed, if) there's a tipping point with a resistance to West End pricing? Maybe certain people will always pay huge sums for something they really want to see (i.e. 'A Little Life') but is that sustainable? I go to the theatre far less frequently that I used to and I'm also less likely to take a punt. I get the economics of production and the sheer costs of running a show and a venue, but I just can't see how - with mortgage rates still possibly to peak - things are sustainable. Of course, it's not just theatre and the arts. Flight prices are too heading towards a point of were they may become "exclusive", and I belong to an expensive gym and have for years and I've never seen it as quiet as it's been the past couple of months. I don't feel positive about the immediate future for discretionary spend items and services.
I do think plays are a slightly different market/demographic to plays. Musicals are still overwhelming female majority audiences.
You see a lot more men at plays.
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Post by kit66 on Jul 2, 2023 10:08:21 GMT
I'm lucky.I'm retired and live in London so can go to any show on any day at any time IF there is an offer available.I don't book in advance and certainly do not pay anything over £50.With over 40 years of selling tickets I know all WE theatres and where to sit for a decent view.If the show is a hit it will run long enough for offers to start to appear.If I can find a show on the fringe or offering a senior discount all the better.I saw Mincemeat at Riverside for £25 (Concession rate) Would I pay West End prices to see it again?No way Jose! For those not so lucky I guess they will pay the exorbinant prices but will choose wisely - perhaps a well known or reviewed show - and only once/twice a year meaning a lot of other shows will miss out. I'm curious to know if coach parties are still a thing as the cost of the coach on top of the price of a theatre ticket must nowerdays be high.
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Post by musiqualetheater on Jul 2, 2023 13:14:39 GMT
And yet well known bloggers, mentioning no names, will give something incredibly niche like "A Strange Loop" something like 5 stars... What do you mean, out of interest?
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Post by mkb on Jul 2, 2023 17:15:10 GMT
...If the show is a hit it will run long enough for offers to start to appear... But many productions of late are time-limited runs with a "name" in the cast. If you don't get in early and swallow the initial pricing, if it's a hit, you'll be priced out, Shirley Valentine being a recent case in point. Aspects could have gone the same way, but did not get the five-star reviews that would have encouraged cash-strapped punters to favour it over something else. Even with hits that are open-ended, if you wait long enough for offers, it usually means missing the original cast that garnered the initial acclaim.
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Post by theatregoer22 on Jul 2, 2023 18:47:02 GMT
Even with living in London and being able to take advantage of Rush/lotteries/e.c.t most of the time, I have to be selective about what I see. So that generally means only seeing what really appeals to me, rather than shows that I'd be curious to check out (unless I can get a ticket for under £20, as I have done for Dr Semmelweis). I'm also putting off seeing some shows because either Rush tickets are very hard to get (as with Six) or they only notify lottery winners a few hours before (e.g. Cabaret) in favour of seeing other shows where I can get a dress circle or stalls seat for £40 or less more easily/with enough time to actually get into central London.
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Post by BVM on Jul 3, 2023 7:45:39 GMT
Thinking a bit more about this. As I said in my previous post, the West End as a whole is still taking huge amounts of money so people ARE still spending there. But certainly from reading all the comments on here it seems as if a lot of long time fans are spending considerably less. But there are clearly enough people out there keeping some producers very profitable.
Totally agree that there is a dominance of family shows, (very) light entertainment, feel good, tribute, jukebox and film shows. Lots of which do shift their tickets at top dollar - and I guess while some shows can do this, all producers are going to try and charge those prices.
Culturally it is all rather depressing - but who am I to question the taste of the masses?
In terms of pricing - yes theatre is expensive, yes it has gone up. But it's not a theatre problem, it's EVERYTHING. Bills have gone up, food has gone up, travel has gone up, holidays have gone up, mortgages are an absolute crisis for millions (thanks Liz Truss). A coffee and a sandwich in Pret is suddenly over a tenner.
It's grim. Meanwhile (soapbox moment) this dreadful government is driving a bigger and bigger wedge between the rich and the poor with the gap widening every day. Their decimation of public services and 12 years of public sector real terms pay cuts is unforgivable.
So yeah, while theatre prices are prohibitive, so are life prices these days.
Furthermore UK theatre remains much cheaper than Broadway, Austria and Germany (and probably much of Europe - I just happen to go a lot to the latter two). And they have the same costs the rest of us do. We do also have more availability at lower prices than other places (you just have to be on it when booking opens) and some good deals/discounts are out there to be had.
So, frustrating though it is, I don't see prices coming down any time soon....
Back to the musicals themselves, I do think this climate does make producers risk averse and very few people want to take chances in the West End. So the programming remains uninspired and family oriented. At least the subsidised sector are doing some decent stuff.
Bad behaviour is also a massive factor for me. Am so sick of spending 90 quid to be surrounded by talkers/texters/singers/fighting drunks. So yeah - it's sad how much things have changed!
(Sorry for slightly depressing post!!!!)
Edit - very much not just London that's shot up in prices. I live in Brighton so get train back after London shows but look at hotels in regions for tours. Manchester prices have gone up exponentially - ditto Birmingham, Bristol... all the cities that take the biggest tours. Hoping to do a UK mini tour myself for Jesus Christ Superstar purposes (oh and Evita in Leicester) and the prices are eye watering.
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Post by singingbird on Jul 3, 2023 9:17:45 GMT
What I still don't get - and never will - is that in the West End plays seem to do okay with more serious/adult subject matter, but musicals don't - and increasingly so over the last ten or more years.
It's not entirely true away from the WE - more adult musicals have done well recently at the Almeida, Young Vic, Donmar etc - but why can they not translate to that wider play-going audience? What is it about singing on stage, or using music to explore ideas and emotions, that puts so many people off? Music is so much a part of all our lives - it's not like it's some weird niche thing.
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Post by BVM on Jul 3, 2023 9:34:51 GMT
What I still don't get - and never will - is that in the West End plays seem to do okay with more serious/adult subject matter, but musicals don't - and increasingly so over the last ten or more years. It's not entirely true away from the WE - more adult musicals have done well recently at the Almeida, Young Vic, Donmar etc - but why can they not translate to that wider play-going audience? What is it about singing on stage, or using music to explore ideas and emotions, that puts so many people off? Music is so much a part of all our lives - it's not like it's some weird niche thing. Interesting point - and agree more "adult" West End plays. I think possibly money again. Musicals are SO expensive - bigger casts, entire orchestra to pay, complexities in sound design and normally (well less so these days) bigger sets and stagings. Producers don't want to risk it. Plus more expensive and complex to develop, involving more people. Also, the plays are in smaller houses, easier to fill and cheaper to hire. But totally agree on your last point. I am gutted using music to explore serious/adult ideas and emotions seems to be in terminal decline.
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Post by shownut on Jul 3, 2023 10:05:09 GMT
What I still don't get - and never will - is that in the West End plays seem to do okay with more serious/adult subject matter, but musicals don't - and increasingly so over the last ten or more years. It's not entirely true away from the WE - more adult musicals have done well recently at the Almeida, Young Vic, Donmar etc - but why can they not translate to that wider play-going audience? What is it about singing on stage, or using music to explore ideas and emotions, that puts so many people off? Music is so much a part of all our lives - it's not like it's some weird niche thing. Interesting point - and agree more "adult" West End plays. I think possibly money again. Musicals are SO expensive - bigger casts, entire orchestra to pay, complexities in sound design and normally (well less so these days) bigger sets and stagings. Producers don't want to risk it. Plus more expensive and complex to develop, involving more people. Also, the plays are in smaller houses, easier to fill and cheaper to hire. But totally agree on your last point. I am gutted using music to explore serious/adult ideas and emotions seems to be in terminal decline. I would not agree that 'serious-minded' musicals are in decline. True, they are more risky in terms of commercial success, but that hasn't stopped them from being written/produced/winning awards/touring/licensing. One of Broadway's most recent successes/Tony winners is KIMBERLY AKIMBO which is not a tap-dancing spectacle and likely considered 'serious' musical theatre. In recent times we have also had DEAR EVAN HANSEN and COME FROM AWAY, not to mention a recently well-received productions of PARADE, CAROLINE OR CHANGE and LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA in New York. This summer, West End audiences have A STRANGE LOOP and NEXT TO NORMAL to enjoy, following a very successful run of THE BAND'S VISIT last year (and is rumoured to be making a limited return). And although I found nothing to enjoy in either STANDING AT THE SKY'S EDGE or HADESTOWN, both are headed to the West End soon.
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Post by BVM on Jul 3, 2023 10:28:49 GMT
Interesting point - and agree more "adult" West End plays. I think possibly money again. Musicals are SO expensive - bigger casts, entire orchestra to pay, complexities in sound design and normally (well less so these days) bigger sets and stagings. Producers don't want to risk it. Plus more expensive and complex to develop, involving more people. Also, the plays are in smaller houses, easier to fill and cheaper to hire. But totally agree on your last point. I am gutted using music to explore serious/adult ideas and emotions seems to be in terminal decline. I would not agree that 'serious-minded' musicals are in decline. True, they are more risky in terms of commercial success, but that hasn't stopped them from being written/produced/winning awards/touring/licensing. One of Broadway's most recent successes/Tony winners is KIMBERLY AKIMBO which is not a tap-dancing spectacle and likely considered 'serious' musical theatre. In recent times we have also had DEAR EVAN HANSEN and COME FROM AWAY, not to mention a recently well-received productions of PARADE, CAROLINE OR CHANGE and LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA in New York. This summer, West End audiences have A STRANGE LOOP and NEXT TO NORMAL to enjoy, following a very successful run of THE BAND'S VISIT last year (and is rumoured to be making a limited return). And although I found nothing to enjoy in either STANDING AT THE SKY'S EDGE or HADESTOWN, both are headed to the West End soon. True, but they are the exception rather than the rule. And certainly Broadway does this more. There's not much home grown stuff of that ilk. And they come and go quite quickly in London. I guess maybe I feel that bigger budget ambitious serious musicals are in decline. And certainly sung through ones. Lots of those shows rely on long spoken sections to get the plot across so I find the "emotion through music" less than what we've seen in the past. Dear Evan Hansen, Come From Away, Kimberly Akimbo all designed as cheaper with simple sets, small casts, small bands - so are closer to play budgets than the big musicals. And this is where the ambition lies in new musicals generally. Also they are much less popular here with the former two having comparatively less successful London runs and if the latter does come over I am sure will be less successful here. Next to Normal is a short run in a small theatre and Strange Loop is not West End. Delighted to see Sky's Edge transfer in and hope the Groundhog Day rumours are true - two big British success stories which pleases me muchly. Though it very much remains to be seen if the buzz and sales of a limited time in a subsidised venue translates to an open ended or longer (not sure which they are going for) West End run where the climate is harsher.
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Post by viserys on Jul 3, 2023 10:32:05 GMT
It's not entirely true away from the WE - more adult musicals have done well recently at the Almeida, Young Vic, Donmar etc - but why can they not translate to that wider play-going audience? What is it about singing on stage, or using music to explore ideas and emotions, that puts so many people off? Music is so much a part of all our lives - it's not like it's some weird niche thing. But that's also where I feel this kind of show belongs. So many of the recent Tony winners (for Best Musical) were a success Off-Broadway, then didn't do well on Broadway, because they just didn't belong on a big stage where they lost their intimacy and also felt overpriced for what were usually rather small shows. I purposely didn't bother with Kimberly Akimbo on Broadway now, because I'd much rather see it in a far more intimate setting in London in 1-2 years, perhaps at the Donmar or Young Vic. I also just couldn't muster any interest in seeing Parade on Broadway - while I do think it's a worthy subject to be telling, I couldn't face sitting through something so utterly depressing. As a movie, at home, okay, but not when I spend a lot of money on an evening out. And also, for me personally - musicals need to engage me with good music and lyrics from the get-go, I have no patience with wannabe profound shows with complicated music you need to listen to 20 times to "get it" or have to work out complicated metaphors. Call me shallow, but it's how it is. As I wrote in the Strange Loop thread, RL is stressful and challenging enough, I want entertainment and emotional engagement when I go to the theatre, shows that make me laugh or cry or ideally both. I guess the avid play-goers just have so much to choose from, why would they want to expand on that? Most musical fans rarely branch out into plays or opera either.
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Post by apubleed on Jul 3, 2023 11:02:55 GMT
viceroys have you been to the booth theatre in NYC? As one of Broadway's smallest theatres I would describe it as quite intimate and I don't think the intimacy of Akimbo would be lost especially from the stalls/orchestra. I would also say some of the other recent smaller best musical winners (e.g. Fun Home, Gentlemen's Guide, Strange Loop) were indeed in smaller theatres but it's the subject matter and complexity that does not appeal to the mass market. I kind of take your point though that there is a big problem with musicals that you do need to put a lot of effort sometimes to be able to cut through the complexity to finally hear the patterns in the music etc. I personally find the pay off highly worth it but I am very niche - why should someone pay £50-£100 to see a show only to then have to see it multiple times and/or listen to the recording to really get it? That's a big ask of audiences who just want to be entertained.
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Post by shownut on Jul 3, 2023 11:03:05 GMT
It's not entirely true away from the WE - more adult musicals have done well recently at the Almeida, Young Vic, Donmar etc - but why can they not translate to that wider play-going audience? What is it about singing on stage, or using music to explore ideas and emotions, that puts so many people off? Music is so much a part of all our lives - it's not like it's some weird niche thing. But that's also where I feel this kind of show belongs. So many of the recent Tony winners (for Best Musical) were a success Off-Broadway, then didn't do well on Broadway, because they just didn't belong on a big stage where they lost their intimacy and also felt overpriced for what were usually rather small shows. I purposely didn't bother with Kimberly Akimbo on Broadway now, because I'd much rather see it in a far more intimate setting in London in 1-2 years, perhaps at the Donmar or Young Vic. I also just couldn't muster any interest in seeing Parade on Broadway - while I do think it's a worthy subject to be telling, I couldn't face sitting through something so utterly depressing. As a movie, at home, okay, but not when I spend a lot of money on an evening out. And also, for me personally - musicals need to engage me with good music and lyrics from the get-go, I have no patience with wannabe profound shows with complicated music you need to listen to 20 times to "get it" or have to work out complicated metaphors. Call me shallow, but it's how it is. As I wrote in the Strange Loop thread, RL is stressful and challenging enough, I want entertainment and emotional engagement when I go to the theatre, shows that make me laugh or cry or ideally both. I guess the avid play-goers just have so much to choose from, why would they want to expand on that? Most musical fans rarely branch out into plays or opera either. To each his own and there is no need to be apologetic if you favour shows that are geared towards entertainment/escapism rather than addressing 'the human condition' or the world at large. That is what I love about the form is that there is something that appeals to all tastes and diversity of opinion. That said, I would argue that it we don't encourage writers of more serious minded musicals, musical theatre as we know it may well go the way of the dinosaurs and not remain an art form that deserves to be taken seriously. On a side note, it is odd how the same piece can affect people differently. You won't embrace A STRANGE LOOP because the content is considered upsetting but I and many others left the theatre on a high as it addressed the art of just 'being,' despite how awful the world can be or how we percieve it to be inside of our heads (with voices that are more than willing to reinforce those negative emotions about ourselves and those around us). I found it life-affirming rather than troubling but then again, to each his own.
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Post by viserys on Jul 3, 2023 11:34:39 GMT
You won't embrace A STRANGE LOOP because the content is considered upsetting Oh, no, that was Parade Strange Loop I just can't muster all that much interest in, even though I'm VERY familiar with those voices in my head. If I was living in/near London and could spontaneously go (ideally on a discount), I would certainly check it out, but I have to plan my travels from abroad months in advance and then pick carefully what I want to see in those days, partly because hotel prices are ridiculous now, but also because I just can't "absorb" more than 4 shows, 5 at a pinch, in short succession. I also think musicals can be entertaining AND deeply moving, which is why I'm so utterly in love with Hadestown. I absolutely love the music and lyrics and also how it packs a punch in pointing out the human condition and mankind's ability to wreck things for themselves for eternally doubting themselves instead of having faith. And many of the classics, such as "Carousel" are also very deeply moving and about the human condition without having to be exhausting.
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Post by shownut on Jul 3, 2023 11:55:29 GMT
You won't embrace A STRANGE LOOP because the content is considered upsetting Oh, no, that was Parade Strange Loop I just can't muster all that much interest in, even though I'm VERY familiar with those voices in my head. If I was living in/near London and could spontaneously go (ideally on a discount), I would certainly check it out, but I have to plan my travels from abroad months in advance and then pick carefully what I want to see in those days, partly because hotel prices are ridiculous now, but also because I just can't "absorb" more than 4 shows, 5 at a pinch, in short succession. I also think musicals can be entertaining AND deeply moving, which is why I'm so utterly in love with Hadestown. I absolutely love the music and lyrics and also how it packs a punch in pointing out the human condition and mankind's ability to wreck things for themselves for eternally doubting themselves instead of having faith. And many of the classics, such as "Carousel" are also very deeply moving and about the human condition without having to be exhausting. Ah yes. PARADE is upsetting so certainly not for everyone. Remains one of my favourite scores and I am heading to NYC later this month to catch that revival before it closes. And you make a good point about being a bit more discerning when you have to travel in to see a show. With high costs and unpredictable train strikes I would agree - for that journey one might want at least some guarantee of a good night out. I wish I enjoyed HADESTOWN as much as you did but seem to be one of only two people on the planet that didn't warm to it. True that many of the classics are vital and deeply moving but we will hopefully encourage todays writers to try equally challenging subjects and ways of stretching the form so that modern musical theatre informs as well as it entertains. Good luck on your next West End visit! :-)
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Post by Jon on Jul 3, 2023 12:06:07 GMT
I would point out that big scale musicals with serious subject matters hasn't really been done in quite some time. Indeed, the closest one is probably Hamilton and that is fairly low tech. Moulin Rouge at a stretch given the ending.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 3, 2023 15:00:42 GMT
Most musical fans rarely branch out into plays or opera either. Surely some must? I can't be the only one! This year the 35 performances I've seen have been made up of 7 ballets, 5 opera, 1 operetta, 4 musicals, 2 plays & 1 improv group (before anyone says that doesn't add up to 35, I've done multiple viewings of some, especially ballets with different casts). Admittedly sometimes I think I & my bank account would find it easier if I didn't want to see several different genres of theatre!
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Post by viserys on Jul 3, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
Surely some must? I can't be the only one! You are actually the only person I know who's ALSO interested in opera and ballet and I don't even know you in person! One friend likes ballet (but rarely goes to see one live) and my Mom likes opera as well as musical (but not plays) and that's about it. But generally I only hear from musical-loving friends that they're going to see a play when it's a star they're interested in seeing on stage.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 3, 2023 16:15:49 GMT
You are actually the only person I know who's ALSO interested in opera and ballet and I don't even know you in person! One friend likes ballet (but rarely goes to see one live) and my Mom likes opera as well as musical (but not plays) and that's about it. But generally I only hear from musical-loving friends that they're going to see a play when it's a star they're interested in seeing on stage. You must know a few other people besides me because there are a (admittedly fairly small) number of us who post in the Opera & Dance section on here. I know, mostly online rather than in person, a number of people who like opera, ballet & some musicals, usually the more dance-heavy end of the musicals spectrum. I'll admit I'm not a big play-goer, or at least not serious plays. When I do see plays they're almost always comedies.
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Post by A.Ham on Jul 3, 2023 16:31:44 GMT
I’m a musicals AND plays fan too!
In fact in recent years I’ve found myself enjoying the plays I’ve seen more than some trips to musicals. I find the audience behaviour generally better (even at Shirley Valentine on a Saturday night!) and I’ve found I often get more emotionally/connection-wise from the performance too. Perhaps I’ve just seen too many musicals so the bar has got higher and higher.
I will admit to being drawn by star casting though, at least when it’s a highly capable actor who I want to see. Jodie Comer, Sheridan Smith and James Norton being recent examples.
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