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Post by danb on Jun 5, 2020 16:21:42 GMT
Yes, all 6 hours of it. Apparently in the book her father is specified as abusive, but here it's left vague, a brief hint early on that was then contradicted by her apparently nostalgic preciousness over her father's glassware in the Call Me By Your Name episode (It's a small town, her Mum is actually the cleaner in her house every day, he has gone to school with her presumably for years - surely he'd know more than he does?) . And yes, I noted than Connell was laudably careful about ensuring her consent in the early episodes, and refreshingly upset that she wanted him to take her roughly from behind later on, but that doesn't make me feel any more happy about the way she was portrayed and the way audiences seem to think her doe-eyed helplessness is romantic. They are criticising Connell for not being her 'white knight' when his friends insult her or boyfriends bully her, rather than being angry that she - supposedly the smartest girl at school and college - doesn't stand up for herself and actively seeks out horrible men who hurt her. There's a short Twitter film made by an Irish performer skitting it - where she's asking him about wanting a cup of tea - that really summed up the series for me. This is a character submitting herself to extreme abuse from men and it just wasn't explored enough why. Do young people in this post Twilight, 50 Shades, Fleabag world not see this as extreme any more? The semi-autobiographical series Patrick Melrose explored the rich, bright, self-destructive character with so much more depth and understanding. We will have to agree to disagree...I thought they showed quite clearly why she felt like she did and thought the ending was hopeful and optimistic and showed a couple who, despite their backgrounds had managed to find self worth and respect. I felt more that the spark had been lit in them both (mostly thanks to each other) rather than actually finding any sort of finite happiness or closure. That was much more interesting than any trite happy ending they could’ve cobbled together. |
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Post by Forrest on Jun 5, 2020 16:43:06 GMT
Glad it lived to your hopes.
Yes, it's the best instruction manual for teenagers I can imagine. I was also in pieces at the watchful skype scene. What a genius device. And what a gift to come in the time of lockdown isolation! For people of all ages it will be bitter-sweet, I think. We all have memories of that age and struggling. It was pitch perfect for me. I heard a review in which one of the speakers was a BBC newsreader who had read the book and binged the BBC version, but then felt a compulsion to share and watch it with her 15-yo daughter. The only difference was mum was too embarrassed to watch the sex scenes with her daughter and so left the room for those. That was also lovely  I could not agree more: I think it has a way of communicating with audience of any age. Whether as a reminder of what was, or as an instruction manual, as you say. Your little story about the BBC newsreader reminded me of watching Tillsammans with my father, a long time ago. For some odd reason he - who doesn't normally care about films at all - decided to join me for it. There was quite a lot of sex in that film, as far as I recall, although I might be wrong (but it was all extremely liberal and openminded, in any case, as it is set in a commune). I didn't blink, but my dad was as red as a tomato. We still laugh about that to this day. Did you watch to the end? Did you see where she ended up? Did you see perhaps why she subjected herself to abusive relationships? I thought that was the whole point. It didn’t glamorise it... I enjoyed the portrayal of first sex as well...he asked, she asked for a condom, there wasn’t the usual grappling with clothes, they just stripped off. He checked all was ok mid sex....it was refreshing. Yes, all 6 hours of it. Apparently in the book her father is specified as abusive, but here it's left vague, a brief hint early on that was then contradicted by her apparently nostalgic preciousness over her father's glassware in the Call Me By Your Name episode (It's a small town, her Mum is actually the cleaner in her house every day, he has gone to school with her presumably for years - surely he'd know more than he does?) . And yes, I noted than Connell was laudably careful about ensuring her consent in the early episodes, and refreshingly upset that she wanted him to take her roughly from behind later on, but that doesn't make me feel any more happy about the way she was portrayed and the way audiences seem to think her doe-eyed helplessness is romantic. They are criticising Connell for not being her 'white knight' when his friends insult her or boyfriends bully her, rather than being angry that she - supposedly the smartest girl at school and college - doesn't stand up for herself and actively seeks out horrible men who hurt her. There's a short Twitter film made by an Irish performer skitting it - where she's asking him about wanting a cup of tea - that really summed up the series for me. This is a character submitting herself to extreme abuse from men and it just wasn't explored enough why. Do young people in this post Twilight, 50 Shades, Fleabag world not see this as extreme any more? The semi-autobiographical series Patrick Melrose explored the rich, bright, self-destructive character with so much more depth and understanding. , I do see what you mean. There are moments when she is, indeed, not a heroine at all, but seems to subordinate everything in her life to his wishes (I mean, she even says it to him - she would do anything he wanted). I can understand why that would make you cringe a little. But I did feel that by the end of the series - although it did take her a while - she had grown and learned to take her stance and own her independence. That is perhaps most evident in the final scene, when it is she who encourages him to go to NY, stating that they will both be alright on their own. She finally acknowledges that her happiness is not down to him, but to her, and she encourages him not to be afraid of taking that step into the unknown, too. There is some of the prince charming/white knight thing in there, absolutely, they could have made her stronger from the start, but then it would have been a different series altogether. Also, perhaps in some scenes (like with his friends) she was weak because she wanted his protection? She was perfectly able to defend herself at school before he entered her life, but once he did she wanted him to take some of the burden of her struggle? You've certaintly given me something to think about... [To be honest the changes in the balances of their strengths and weaknesses which challenge the usual gender-based expectations - sometimes it was her who needed (or craved) protection, sometimes it was him (but it was hard for him to show it) - reminded me of Glass.Kill.Bluebeard.Imp. Both in Glass and in Imp, the characters who were in need of protecting were the men: the boy with the invisible pain in contrast to the girl made of glass whom everyone is sheltering; the grown man with the broken heart and with nothing left to lose in contrast to the girl who is successful and acknowledged... That scene between Mothersdale and Jones - You're not fixing me. You're not broken. - which is kind of a lie, because there's so much that's broken about him... OMG, how much I love(d) that play! Sorry about the digression.] |
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 5, 2020 20:12:48 GMT
One of the architectural shapes I enjoyed was the contrast between Connell, who started off as the home town boy afraid of his own shadow who - via Trinity and inter-railing - eventually looked forward to moving a continent away alone, and Marieanne who needed to go to big city Dublin and then abroad in order to lose herself in self-loathing, before she could make the opposite journey (and finally reconciling with hometown Sligo). Not easy to get away with that. Turned out - in the very last scene - they were on opposite journey's. Sally Rooney: busting some big shapes.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jun 6, 2020 18:12:41 GMT
This is a VERY common problem in society for both men and women on both sides of the problem and it boils down to this.
She was a very strong character in every other area of her life except for 'love' because of her upbringing.
Our parents and family are 'meant' to represent love in its purest form. They made us, we are literally a part of them and their love is supposed to be never ending and unconditional. She was taught that love = abuse and therefore if someone wasn't abusing her it didn't feel like real love to her.
She needed the abuse to feel loved because her definition of what love was is so skewed, without it the love didn't feel real to her as that was the only kind of love she learned from her family.
Connell showed her that was not true and proved to her what real love was.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 27, 2020 10:09:08 GMT
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Post by marob on May 28, 2024 22:33:30 GMT
Is there going to be a season 2? Daisy Edgar Jones posted a picture on Instagram teasing an announcement. She’s posing with Paul Mescal and they’re both holding two fingers up ✌️
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Post by n1david on May 28, 2024 23:30:52 GMT
There isn't a further book to adapt. Maybe, given its success, Sally Rooney is preparing something but at the moment there isn't the material to work from.
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Post by solotheatregoer on May 29, 2024 8:16:13 GMT
I bumped in to Paul Mescal at Heathrow (literally bumped as he dashed to Yo Sushi for a pre-flight meal) and was sat in the row next to him on my flight to Cork last week. Didn't get a chance to speak to him unfortunately and he looked like he didn't want to be disturbed. But I would love a season 2!
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Post by aspieandy on May 30, 2024 17:53:01 GMT
I've bumped into Daisy E-J in Sainsbury's at Angel 3 times. Once, she patiently waited as I peered closely at the salmon steaks.
No idea what she's doing slumming it with M&S and Waitrose on the same stretch. Collecting Nectar points, I expect.
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2,760 posts
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Post by n1david on Jun 3, 2024 16:15:05 GMT
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