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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 9:01:26 GMT
I watched the German documentary recently on TV and I hadn't previously known how much the City had fought to stage Starlight and it was their idea to build a theatre. I had always thought it was RUG who had picked Bochum and decided to build a theatre as a solution to the inherent problems in staging Starlight in a conventional theatre....
Germany owes basically everything to Friedrich Kurz, the guy featured in the docu (I was SO pleased they brought him in for it) and by extension to Peter Weck, who had taken over the Theater an der Wien in Vienna in 1983 and brought "Cats" as his first production. The German version of Memory became a huge chart hit in both countries and "Cats" was a sell-out smash hit in Vienna (featuring, among others, a young Ute Lemper, Steve Barton and of course Angelika Milster as Grizabella). Tourists swamped Vienna wanting to see it and Kurz realized that this could work in Germany too, where theatregoers had long been alienated by Regietheater nonsense and theatre in general was seen as something dull, heady and elitist. So he talked the council in Hamburg into letting him have the un-used Operettenhaus at the dull end of the Reeperbahn and he brought "Cats" there in 1986. And the Vienna story repeated itself... with thousands storming the theatre, many from far away, spending money in hotels, restaurants, etc.
This got Bochum's attention, as, as the docu said, city coffers were empty with the traditional industries in the Ruhrgebiet going downhill and they were hoping to draw tourists with a musical. Hence Starlight Express, for which Kurz had to fight a lot of bile by the elitist local theatres who were whinging about the financial support he got or simply deriding the show as commercial crap. Meanwhile up in Hamburg they wanted to add another musical and Hamburg wanted to give Kurz the "Flora Theatre", which sadly, was in the middle of a very left-wing anarchist area, so there were massive protests and Hamburg decided to rather build a new theatre nearby, hence the name Neue (New) Flora. When Phantom of the Opera opened there, opening night guests were pelted with eggs and worse by rioters, so many people who had planned to see the show cancelled again.
If Kurz hadn't persevered against all the typical German "egads, something new, don't want this, don't need this" mentality and fought to established his three shows, musicals as a genre had never established itself. I still wonder what had happened if he had been able to hold on Stella (his production company) and I'm pleased the docu acknowledged his work. I also remember how often he was on TV back then, explaining, promoting, introducing his shows. These days Stage Entertainment does hardly anything of the sort. They just slap the shows on stage, run a few lame TV commercials and then wonder why people aren't coming and close a fantastic show like Kinky Boots after less than year due to terrible sales.
I always find your posts about the musical scene in Germany so interesting Viserys :-) As someone who travels to Germany lot as it's really the only country in Europe that has embraced musicals and although clearly there aren't as many as London there is choice and a lot of the great shows mount productions there. So I had not previously heard of Kurz, but certainly sounds have a lot to thank him for. Can I ask then, was he part of Stella, the original producer, or did they play different roles? I remember when Stella went bust (was this due to ventures separate from Starlight?) and Starlight nearly closed... Still gives me shivers as to what might have been. Often heard you talk about how Stage Entertainment do things on the cheap. Sort of makes me think the German equivalent of Kenwright (though surely they can't be THAT cheap lol?!). That said Love Never Dies in Hamburg was done by them (correct me if I am wrong!) and that was the full Aus production and was very impressive I thought. So would you say Mehr, the current Starlight producer, spend a bit more money on their shows? Also are Mehr and Stage completely separate or are they all owned by a parent company? Thanks as ever for your explanations of the German scene!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 9:04:29 GMT
Is this it? . If so, I was impressed.
Indeed, that was (is) Angelika Milster's original version from Vienna (they used another translation in Hamburg later and had a far weaker Grizabella, sadly). I saw there's also a clip from when she appeared on TV in what was basically the German version of "Top of the Pops" with great ratings:
I was a kid at the time, but I remember how her appearances on that show made everyone sit up and take notice because "What's that woman doing there dressed as a cat?!" and then she sang that killer song and I don't want to know how many people picked up the phone to book tickets to Cats.
It all has a very special place in my heart because the Vienna cast recording of Cats was the very first musical album (vinyl!) I ever bought and I don't exaggerate when I say it changed my life completely.
Agree about Memory - in fact the whole Vienna recording is wonderful, shame it's not complete! I also have the Hamburg recording which I like mainly as it is complete (does sound a bit thinner than Vienna though); I too noticed lots of lyric changes. Sadly, though I understand some German, it's not enough to speak it. Do you know why the lyrics were changed? Would you say they were improved from Vienna to Hamburg?!
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Post by viserys on Jul 2, 2018 15:05:30 GMT
Well, thanks, I'm happy to share what I know and I'm glad I'm not boring anyone to tears Do you know why the lyrics were changed? Would you say they were improved from Vienna to Hamburg?! Nope, not really - the Vienna version was more poetic and creative, while the Hamburg version sticks closer to the original... which I don't think is absolutely necessary, so I prefer the better-crafted Vienna version. I have no idea why Hamburg did its own, I ASSUME that it was because there was quite a fierce rivalry back then (Vienna didn't want to lose the German tourist dollar) and they wouldn't allow them to use it? Though later the same translation (bar some tweaks) was used for Phantom in Vienna and Hamburg and the Vienna version of Cats was used when the new "tour in a tent" launched. So I had not previously heard of Kurz, but certainly sounds have a lot to thank him for. Can I ask then, was he part of Stella, the original producer, or did they play different roles? So would you say Mehr, the current Starlight producer, spend a bit more money on their shows? Also are Mehr and Stage completely separate or are they all owned by a parent company? Well, this can get long, so bear with me: Friedrich Kurz founded Stella and was its first CEO (initially the flyers and posters would say "Friedrich Kurz presents...", then later "Stella presents..."). His fatal mistake was to find a partner in the early 90s, Rolf Deyhle, to build the oversized stupid "SI Centrum" in Stuttgart which opened with Miss Saigon in 1994 and had a second theatre added a few years later. Deyhle elbowed Kurz out of his own company and Kurz tried again with a German version of "Return to the Forbidden Planet" in Berlin, but that was a massive flop and he disappeared from sight. Deyhle was not a "theatre man" though, he was only interested in money and sunk the entire Stella fortune into real estate speculation - which eventually caused Stella to go bust and the theatres to be sold. Meanwhile across the border... the Netherlands had a similar development to Germany. Here it was Joop van den Ende, who had made his fortune with TV productions (his company Endemol gave the world gems like Big Brother) and who was - like Kurz - a private musical lover. He brought Les Miserables, Phantom and many other productions to the Netherlands in the 90s and turned them into huge successes. And just like Kurz created Stella, Van den Ende created Stage Entertainment in the Netherlands. Stage Entertainment had dipped its foot into the German market before by taking over "Buddy" in Hamburg and of course had a field day when Stella went bust, buying almost all theatres (except, ironically, Starlight Express) and launched their first proper German production "Elisabeth" in Essen's Colosseum Theatre in 2001. Enter a new name: Maik Klokow. He had begun as a technician for Stella (at Starlight Express no less) and worked his way to the top in management positions. When Stage Entertainment moved into the German market after buying Stella's theatres, Joop van den Ende put Klokow in charge of the German branch of the company. In my opinion he did a very good job, bringing both international productions in and developing new German productions. But somehow (don't ask me) things between Klokow and Van den Ende soured and Klokow eventually departed to found his own production company "Mehr!" and produced his own shows. Yet ANOTHER player in Germany was Michael Brenner, who founded BB Promotion in the 80s and mainly brought (and brings) international tours (as well as concerts and dance productions) to Germany. BB Promotion and Mehr! often work together (one has the shows, the other the theatres). Interestingly Mehr! was bought by ATG last year which I think explains how and why UK Tours such as Billy Elliot, Cats and soon Miss Saigon turn up in Germany (and I personally hope that they will keep bringing many more over). I'm not really sure how the whole ATG/Mehr!/BB Promotion thing hangs together, but they are basically one side and Stage Entertainment is the other side - although they seem to be working together sometimes now, with Mehr!'s "Bodyguard" moving from their theatre in Cologne to Stage Entertainment's theatre in Stuttgart and Stage Entertainment's grotty Tanz der Vampire clogging up the Musical Dome here for half a year. As for who's cheaper... I think both producers are about the same level quality-wise. The problem is that Stage Entertainment is far more expensive. They try to flog their shows as some sort of super premium experience but the quality is just not premium. They reduced orchestras greatly over the years, so most shows sound terrible now (although i found that a problem at Starlight Express too and am looking forward to hear the re-orchestrated new sound) and the quality of their performers is "just-so". Too often you don't understand a single blessed word because once again they hired foreign performers who can't speak German and just sing "parrot-fashion" and more often than not you don't even see the first casts but some unknown understudies who often don't have the vocal chops for the part or are far too young. So I'm just not willing to pay the equivalent of £100-140 for a tinny cheap-sounding orchestra and unknown performers who can't sing in German and/or can't handle the score. And before I'm accused of bashing understudies: I know that some are great and just as good or even better than the first casts, but it's not often the case here. And more importantly, I, as a customer, feel treated like crap when there's never any clear information who's on when. I rarely ever see German productions these days, but I made a valiant attempt a while ago when I could hitch a free ride to Hamburg and caught "Rocky". Naturally I was keen on seeing the leading man, Drew Sarich, an American who's made a great name for himself both in the German-speaking region and on Broadway. Was he there? Nope, of course not. Nor was the first cast Adrian (and the understudy was terrible). So you open the programme, see the leads and their long list of credits featured big on the first pages, then realize you see none of them. And this is not a one-off, this is pretty much par for the course. When they announced "Love never dies" with Gardar Thor Cortes, I was mildly interested in seeing him, but since I knew there was such a huge risk to not see him, I never bothered. So... by comparison, when I go to London, I get to see shows for far better prices (even when paying full prices, not to mention opportunities like dayseats), better-sounding orchestras and almost always the full first casts. Sure I had bummers too, like when I booked 42nd Street for Ashley Day and he decided to take that weekend off, but it's a rare exception, not the rule (and -when- you get an understudy in London, you can be sure you get quality, after all I had first seen Mr Day himself when he understudied Elder Price in Book of Mormon and started keeping tabs on him). So I guess by "cheap" I mostly mean that you don't get value for money here, if you weigh the crazy prices against what you see on stage. Now take "Bat out of Hell" for example, where I've kept booking the front row in London for £55 (now £45 apparently), whereas the front row in Oberhausen will cost twice as much. Casting is not yet known (I fear the worst) and of course the whole production died for me the moment I heard it will be performed in German. MEAT LOAF'S LEGENDARY HITS TRANSLATED INTO GERMAN. Now even if they found a massively talented young leading man / leading lady (not that I expect them to) and I would be curious to see them and compare them to their London counter parts, I could never be sure to actually see them. So why pay €120 to see this show done in German and with some foreign understudies in the lead who can't even sing in German, when I can see the fabulous London cast singing the original rock classics for half the price? Okay, done ranting, I apologize for derailing this Starlight Express (fnarr) and will shut up now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 17:20:29 GMT
Thanks so much for writing all that Viserys - must have taken ages! Really enjoyable read, love hearing about all this kind of stuff and is fascinating to hear about the driving forces behind the German musical scene.
I love the optimism they had in the 80s/90s that they actually built new theatres for productions like Starlight and Miss Saigon (and was Sunset Boulevard the same?)
So I agree, I used to find Starlight expensive but am gobsmacked how expensive other shows are in Germany. I saw Love Never Dies a couple of times and was extortionate. Twice West End prices; more like Broadway really. Are regular Germans happy to pay these prices? Is it a once a year event?
I also find the swing/understudy structure quite different there as you mention. Completely normal at Starlight to have 50% ish non 1st cast (doesn't bother me at all as they are all so good!). Not sure why this is though. Do they get more booked holiday? It it to do with frequent injuries? Does mean a huge company where 50% of them are swings and must cost a bit. Surprised (but pleased!) this has not been addressed in a cost cutting exercise.
But yes, is annoying if you are booking to see a specific cast member. Basically you can't really do that in Germany. I never saw Gardar at LND!
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Post by Raven on Jul 4, 2018 19:06:39 GMT
Thanks so much for writing all that Viserys - must have taken ages! Really enjoyable read, love hearing about all this kind of stuff and is fascinating to hear about the driving forces behind the German musical scene. I love the optimism they had in the 80s/90s that they actually built new theatres for productions like Starlight and Miss Saigon (and was Sunset Boulevard the same?) So I agree, I used to find Starlight expensive but am gobsmacked how expensive other shows are in Germany. I saw Love Never Dies a couple of times and was extortionate. Twice West End prices; more like Broadway really. Are regular Germans happy to pay these prices? Is it a once a year event? I also find the swing/understudy structure quite different there as you mention. Completely normal at Starlight to have 50% ish non 1st cast (doesn't bother me at all as they are all so good!). Not sure why this is though. Do they get more booked holiday? It it to do with frequent injuries? Does mean a huge company where 50% of them are swings and must cost a bit. Surprised (but pleased!) this has not been addressed in a cost cutting exercise. But yes, is annoying if you are booking to see a specific cast member. Basically you can't really do that in Germany. I never saw Gardar at LND! I'm glad you have asked this question, as it's something I'm curious about too with Starlight! How do they chose which swing goes on when and for whom?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 19:17:52 GMT
Thanks so much for writing all that Viserys - must have taken ages! Really enjoyable read, love hearing about all this kind of stuff and is fascinating to hear about the driving forces behind the German musical scene. I love the optimism they had in the 80s/90s that they actually built new theatres for productions like Starlight and Miss Saigon (and was Sunset Boulevard the same?) So I agree, I used to find Starlight expensive but am gobsmacked how expensive other shows are in Germany. I saw Love Never Dies a couple of times and was extortionate. Twice West End prices; more like Broadway really. Are regular Germans happy to pay these prices? Is it a once a year event? I also find the swing/understudy structure quite different there as you mention. Completely normal at Starlight to have 50% ish non 1st cast (doesn't bother me at all as they are all so good!). Not sure why this is though. Do they get more booked holiday? It it to do with frequent injuries? Does mean a huge company where 50% of them are swings and must cost a bit. Surprised (but pleased!) this has not been addressed in a cost cutting exercise. But yes, is annoying if you are booking to see a specific cast member. Basically you can't really do that in Germany. I never saw Gardar at LND! I'm glad you have asked this question, as it's something I'm curious about too with Starlight! How do they chose which swing goes on when and for whom? Yeah I'd love to know! What I also find very bizarre is that the leads all understudy the next role up from themselves. So for example I have frequently seen if Pearl was off, then Dinah would play Pearl, Ashley would play Dinah and a swing would play Ashley. Surely it would be simpler for Dinah and Ashley to play themselves and a swing to play Pearl. Similarly Caboose understudies GB/Electra/Rusty and Electra understudies Greaseball. Always strikes me as very inefficient as the cast need to learn far more roles that is strictly necessary. Saying that I do love all these Bochum quirks, just wish I understood them more!
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Post by bodobear on Jul 4, 2018 22:55:08 GMT
As for which cover goes on first: I’m pretty sure they used to have a 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/... cover hierarchy that they kind of threw overboard the last couple of years - although not completely as I believe Abigail was 1st cover Pearl last year for example and Dan Ellison 1st Cover Rusty and Gavin Ashbarry 1st Cover Poppa nur they didn’t really stick to the rule for whatever reason (I hear they wanna go back to it though). This year the covers don’t make sense to me at all anymore. It used to be for example of a girl understudies Ashley, she also understudied Buffy, but this year, not all girls covering Belle also cover Carrie and vice versa. Which doesn’t make sense to me especially as both part are almost identical in what they’re doing, even more than Buffy and Ashley felt to me.
In recent years especially I believe they tried to have less covers on throughout the week. I remember for example in the 05/06 or 06/07 casts, especially on double show days, there were a lot more swings on for bigger parts than there are now. I keep wondering if it has to do with the payment structure or sth like that that they decide to rather have a 1st cast go on for one of his/her covers and let a swing play the “smaller” part than have a swing play the bigger part. 🤔
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Post by viserys on Jul 5, 2018 6:26:04 GMT
Well, you're setting yourself up for another epic ramble here (but I don't mind, I type fast and I love being able to share what I know. One of the few advantages of being old(er) now is that I was already around back then... I love the optimism they had in the 80s/90s that they actually built new theatres for productions like Starlight and Miss Saigon (and was Sunset Boulevard the same?) One of the most problematic issues in Germany is the state-funded Stadttheater system (which I could write books about) with their repertory theatre, so there were simply no bigger houses available for long-runs and they needed to build new ones. And it was some sort of "gold rush" atmosphere in the 90s – when towns saw what Cats and Phantom were doing for Hamburg and Starlight Express for Bochum in terms of visitors, they all wanted a slice of that business. So those theatres sprung up and often not even proper theatres because there was no time for that. Instead we got tent constructions like the ugly blue bin bag of the Musical Dome here in Cologne, although to be fair, that one had always meant to be temporary only. Another tent is the now grandly named Metronom Theater in Oberhausen, future home of German Bat, and the Hafentheater in Hamburg (Lion King). As for Sunset Boulevard, that was actually the first and last foray of Really Useful Group into the German market, though they made a bunch of epic mistakes. The success of Starlight Express made producers believe that they could plonk their shows just about anywhere and not necessarily in the middle of a city, but they failed to realize that Starlight Express is a special case in the middle of the very densely populated Ruhrgebiet district, so millions of people are less than 30 mins away by car from that particular motorway exit where the theatre is. Now RUG thought they could do the same and had a theatre built in Niedernhausen near Frankfurt (look it up on Google Maps!). But while this is a very affluent area, it was just too far from the cities, especially if you needed public transport. The second mistake was the insane price structure. Until then (mid-90s) the "top price" was only ever a few carefully selected rows, i.e. at Starlight Express the first row behind each race track, then some rows "second price" and you could still get decent seats at "third price". Basically top price was what today's "ultra special premium VIP seats" are. But RUG simply copied the London system where "top price" was almost everything in the stalls and the first rows in dress circle, so by comparison Sunset Blvd was much more expensive than the Stella shows. And while she did get a lot of praise for her portrayal of Norma, I also think that casting American singer Helen Schneider was a big mistake. While she had been in Germany for many years already, she still sang with a strong accent and she wasn't really a household name people would travel to see (I think that for example Angelika Milster had been a much better choice or they could have landed a coup by getting one of the truly greats of yesteryear like Caterina Valente or Milva in). Sunset Boulevard did manage to run for 992 performances – judging by today's standards that was actually a very good run, but it sold very badly after the first year and after it closed the theatre was never used for another ensuite musical production again and RUG never tried to launch another musical in Germany. Other new theatres like the Theater am Marientor in Duisburg, where Les Miserables opened in 1995, and the Musical Theater Bremen (Jekyll & Hyde) were abandoned after a few years, too, but have managed to survive as hosts to various tours, concerts and so on. Personally I'm sad that Essen's Colosseum Theatre is no longer used for musicals – it wasn't a new theatre, but built into a beautifully restored old factory and unlike all the new awful cookie cutter theatres had a very nice genuine atmosphere. It's still owned by Stage Entertainment I believe but also used for tours, concerts and the like. So it's a bit ironic that the ugly tents in Hamburg, Cologne and Oberhausen are still being used as theatres, while the proper musical theatres shut their doors to long-run musicals but as every real estate agent knows, it's all about location, location, location. So I agree, I used to find Starlight expensive but am gobsmacked how expensive other shows are in Germany. I saw Love Never Dies a couple of times and was extortionate. Twice West End prices; more like Broadway really. Are regular Germans happy to pay these prices? Is it a once a year event? Well, the short and simple answer is: No. If you look at seating plans online you will often see that the dress circle isn't even on sale as they don't expect to fill the whole theatre and are happy to just try and fill the stalls. I believe that the Disney musicals are the only moderately successful musicals in Germany now, because people know what they can expect and that it's (probably) worth their money. "Kinky Boots" will close in September after a run of only nine (badly-sold) months in Hamburg because nobody has a clue what the show is about (and the title, left in English, means nothing to most Germans) and at these prices, nobody is giving something unknown a chance. We also come back to my previous post here of "not getting value for money" – people leave the theatre not exhilarated by having witnessed something fantastic but saying that it was "okay" at most, and you can't do "okay" at such prices. Another problem is that Germany's musical audience grew up on the "blockbusters" of the 80s, so they basically expect every musical to be a big spectacle with big sets and the more epic belter ballads the better, and "smaller" normal shows just don't stand a chance. And these days you hardly get this kind of show anymore, which is why Stage Entertainment is so reliant on Disney to produce colourful spectacles and Broadway's King of Flops Frank Wildhorn is so cherished here. They are now bringing Cirque du Soleil's "Paramour" in, which flopped on Broadway, but which I assume will do fairly well because it's a bright colourful spectacle which is what German audiences want more than anything else. And we hardly have any "long-runs" these days anymore anyway, except in Hamburg. Stage Entertainment seems to have recognized that the number of people forking out for their crazy prices is very limited in each town and that nobody drives hundreds of miles anymore just to catch a new musical somewhere else, so half the new shows now start as tours such as Disney's Hunchback that opened in Berlin and moved to Stuttgart after half a year. There was just such a general shift in attitude somehow – in the 90s musicals were "THE watercooler talk" with people in my school, my parents' offices or in the village going "Oh, we've finally seen Phantom in Hamburg/went to see Starlight Express, it was soooo good!" and you saw so many cars with stickers of the Phantom mask, Cats eyes and the Starlight logo driving around and even people in fan shirts on the streets. But these days musicals are no longer "cool" or getting anyone excited, it's just something you might do when you happen to be on a city trip in Hamburg anyway or just one thing in a mix of evening things to do like concerts, movies, dance shows, etc. I also find the swing/understudy structure quite different there as you mention. Completely normal at Starlight to have 50% ish non 1st cast (doesn't bother me at all as they are all so good!). Not sure why this is though. Do they get more booked holiday? It it to do with frequent injuries? Does mean a huge company where 50% of them are swings and must cost a bit. Surprised (but pleased!) this has not been addressed in a cost cutting exercise. I wish I had a clear answer to that, but the fact is: I don't know. "It's always been thus". For example when Phantom opened in 1990 it was heavily marketed on Peter Hofmann's name as the Phantom. Hofmann was a very well-known opera tenor at the time, most famous for doing Wagner in Bayreuth and elsewhere (and your classic big blonde Germanic hunk), so I'm sure many people booked mostly to see him. But... without any notification or warning it turned out that he wasn't doing the matinees (and probably missing other performances as well) and when we drove up to Hamburg for a matinee a few months after the opening we didn't see him either. It didn't matter that Hartwig Rudolz (who was also first cast Raoul) was probably the better actor and musical singer and was a terrific Phantom – people had booked to see the famous Wagner tenor Hofmann. A similar thing happened in Essen when "Joseph" opened there. Leading man Andreas Bieber was a musical performer, but had got himself a part in a big daytime soap in Germany to raise his profile and thus bagged the lead in Joseph. We went two days after opening night – and he was absent. It doesn't matter so much in Starlight Express (or Cats) I think as there isn't such a marked difference between first cast and swings and of course in the end none of the performers are "names" people book for. The above-mentioned Hartwig Rudolz later played Javert in the German Les Miserables and was so terrific (I can vouch for that, I was a huge fan of the man) that he was invited to reprise the role in London. And I remember him whining in an interview how "awful" it was having to do eight performances a week, that he didn't get around to do anything else, etc. - well yea, it's your day job, mate. It may all stem from the fact that there was absolutely no tradition of "ensuite" shows in Germany where people do eight shows a week and dedicate themselves wholly to one show. I've heard in more than one interview that they'd be "bored" to just do one role all the time, so there are several performers who have a role in an ensuite musical but also accept other roles in local Stadttheater (repertory) productions to do on the side. The lady who played Rachel in "Bodyguard" in Cologne for example also played Sarah in "Ragtime" somewhere else and the lead vampire in "Tanz der Vampire" also did Dracula somewhere else, missing several whole weekends. And I assume something similar also applies for Starlight Express, where Pearl might also play Dinah or Electra go on as Greaseball – they have more variation in what they do and just don't have to work that hard with more performances off. Other arguments I've heard are that the understudies and swings get X "guaranteed" performances per week or month so that they won't get "rusty" and get to play the part regularly. I suppose one aspect is the lack of really good performers. If you do an open call audition in London, you'll have 500 people turn up for a part and if a chosen performer would say "nah, I only do six performances a week, I need time for my own cabaret acts on the side", producers would simply offer the part to another one who's willing to commit for eight performances. And people are happy to get into a West End show at all because there's so much competition, they wouldn't have the chance to bargain "I'll only join this show if I also get to understudy leading part XY and get six scheduled performances a month". It's just an entirely different mindset, I believe – in London (and New York) it's a question of pride to be the first cast and do as many performances as you can unless you are really ill or have a holiday scheduled (or in some very demanding parts get an alternate to shoulder some of the load, but then it's usually very clear when that alternate will be performing), whereas here ensuite musicals with eight shows a week are more seen as repetitive drudge work. The irony of course being that they claim they don't want to be one tiny cog in a well-oiled machine, but by making themselves so interchangeable they just further the image, because with 3-4 people sharing one part and the audience never knowing who's on, it ultimately ceases to matter who's first cast Elphaba or Rusty or Aladdin and everyone is indeed just a cog in the wheel.
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Post by musicalmarge on Jul 5, 2018 6:34:53 GMT
Starlight germany works like this.
You get paid the same and don’t get paid extra to go on as a role.
Each part is normally covered by 3/4 people. They don’t have an official list but favourites for each role and unoffficial 1st, 2nd, 3rd cover. With injuries and holidays they need it.
The reason why the casting is so difficult is the best performer isn’t always the best skater/and vice versa.
It takes months to learn each role and 1 actor is signed off to play each role after a cover run every 6 weeks.
It’s a logistical nightmare but if often means lots of swapping around and lots of changes - especially when the cast changes over.
Just because someone is a good dancer on skates doesn’t mean they are good at the races - this ultimately all comes down to safety. The Starlighthalle in Bochum isn’t a theatre it’s a huge arena!
I’ve seen actors play three roles in one show, have different actors do the races and ifs often rather dramatic backstage for Steven, Michael, Debbie and Meinolf.
Finally, the best skater and performer doesn’t always have the best phonetic German! Doing starlight in Germany is one of the hardest things you can ever do; training to dance on wheels in the dark, wearing a heavy costume (some are 3 stone), singing in a different language, performing Olympic standard stunt roller skating and being out of breath for 2 hours!
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Post by viserys on Jul 18, 2018 8:35:51 GMT
Having seen the new version of Starlight Express now, I guess I should write a few lines (and by a few I mean a few thousand of course…).
Let me pre-empt this with a disclaimer: While I've heard some whinging that "this is not the Starlight Express I've loved for so long" from other fans in Germany, I've had this feeling ever since the big overhaul in 2002, when the very first version I loved, cherished and saw many times was replaced with a new one, axing favourite songs like Dein Freund/There's Me and Du allein/Only you. So while I've been dubious considering the many changes (mostly for the worst) in recent years, I've tried to approach this with an open mind.
So let's get the bad stuff out of the way first: The new "Overture" is a disaster. The old one – with the music building steadily to a climax until the "trains" rolled on the bridge and down the upper tracks was just the perfect introduction to the show. Now just before the music reaches its climax, it's rudely killed off by the Control voice, the stage is bathed in too bright light and the introduction of the trains just falls completely flat. The whole first 10-15 minutes felt oddly disjointed with too much dialogue and too few proper songs. I get the idea of a "better" setup for the show where Rusty is the kid's oldest model train and Pearl the latest model train to be introduced to the train set,, but it just doesn't really work for me. We don't need this to get into this fairy tale/dream.
The new song "Ich bin ich" is... questionable. It's not bad, but it feels crammed in to make a politically correct point of the girls not being mere appendages to the male engines and I really don't need that kind of issues rammed down my throat in such a show. However, it's not all bad, because sometimes you aren't aware of how stupid something was until you've seen it changed. After 30 years, Dinah the dining car seems to have suddenly had a personality injection that made me sit up and take notice straightaway. So far she was always the ditzy pouty blonde whose life existed solely around her dear Greaseball and now she comes across as far stronger with way more sass – and I did like that a lot and it was certainly a good step forward from the countless female cliché musical characters whose only point of existence seems to be pining for a man.
There was much whinging in the land when they first announced that Poppa would be replaced by Momma and honestly, this also worked well for me. Reva Rice has oodles of charisma and a great voice (it made me smile to think I had seen her as Pearl in London many years ago) and a mother figure for the ramshackle set of freight trucks really seems fitting. Add Coco the female engine and the female Rocky into the mix and it does all feel more balanced across the board. Was it necessary? I don't know, I can think of many shows far more in desperate need of a rethink when it comes to the portrayal of females, but it doesn't feel wrong either and I'm fine with these changes.
As for the costumes and technical changes: I feel ambivalent about most of them. I didn't need the projections of railway tracks or freight yards but I didn't mind them either. Most of the costume changes were fine too – I liked Electra's new monochromatic design that feels more in line with his components and generally more modern than the earlier red/blue get-up and the females were fine, too. Pearl's new look is a bit –too- bland and sleek for me, more nurse's outfit than first class, but it's still preferable to the awful pink wig she had in the last 10-15 years that was always more My Little Pony than model train. I liked Coco the female engine and the tiny female boxer that was now part of the Rocky gang and the new Killerwatt component. The only one that didn't work at all for me was Caboose – I suppose they went for some sort of teenage wannabe-gangsta style with bandanna and naff hat, but he mostly just looked silly, but then the role was ruined years ago when they took Dein Freund from him.
The first half of the new Starlight Sequence was absolutely brilliant – I thought it would be strange without the green laser that was such an iconic part of the show, but the floating stars were incredibly beautiful – sadly they then ruined it all by transforming Rusty himself into a disco glitter ball. Cringe.
I have nothing bad to say about the new cast – quite incredibly for Starlight Express, I had ALL first casts in the leads (except Caboose, who hardly qualifies as a lead anymore) and not a weak link among them. Blake Patrick Anderson is a totally adorable Rusty, all curly mop of hair and cute dimples, though I wish there had been more vocal power behind his "Starlight Express" which seemed strangely quiet (although I was incredibly happy that the old proper version has been reinstated). I was also very taken by Rose Ouellette's strong Dinah, for me the most improved character, but honestly, everyone was fab.
So overall... I'd say the good outweighs the bad here. It will never be the show again that I grew up with in the 90s anyway, so I don't feel the loss of the recent version strongly and most of the shake-ups feel for the better. They only need to fix the awful overture and generally get the show off to a better start again and I'm good. The new orchestrations definitely make the small band sound fuller than the reduced tinny orchestra in the last years, so that was another pro.
Lastly, I'm reminded of my first return visit to Phantom of the Opera after a long break, where I found myself bored silly, because the stage sets and everything seemed so creaky and outdated 80s style and I knew exactly what each scene was looking like and how it would be acted – and I've never felt the desire to see it again after that. And with so many long-runners clogging up the West End that start to feel like museum pieces, I do think it makes sense to shake up Starlight Express from time to time – just like they'd do if a show closed and was then revived in a new form 10-15 years later.
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1,210 posts
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Post by musicalmarge on Jul 18, 2018 17:52:16 GMT
Having seen the new version of Starlight Express now, I guess I should write a few lines (and by a few I mean a few thousand of course…). Let me pre-empt this with a disclaimer: While I've heard some whinging that "this is not the Starlight Express I've loved for so long" from other fans in Germany, I've had this feeling ever since the big overhaul in 2002, when the very first version I loved, cherished and saw many times was replaced with a new one, axing favourite songs like Dein Freund/There's Me and Du allein/Only you. So while I've been dubious considering the many changes (mostly for the worst) in recent years, I've tried to approach this with an open mind. So let's get the bad stuff out of the way first: The new "Overture" is a disaster. The old one – with the music building steadily to a climax until the "trains" rolled on the bridge and down the upper tracks was just the perfect introduction to the show. Now just before the music reaches its climax, it's rudely killed off by the Control voice, the stage is bathed in too bright light and the introduction of the trains just falls completely flat. The whole first 10-15 minutes felt oddly disjointed with too much dialogue and too few proper songs. I get the idea of a "better" setup for the show where Rusty is the kid's oldest model train and Pearl the latest model train to be introduced to the train set,, but it just doesn't really work for me. We don't need this to get into this fairy tale/dream. The new song "Ich bin ich" is... questionable. It's not bad, but it feels crammed in to make a politically correct point of the girls not being mere appendages to the male engines and I really don't need that kind of issues rammed down my throat in such a show. However, it's not all bad, because sometimes you aren't aware of how stupid something was until you've seen it changed. After 30 years, Dinah the dining car seems to have suddenly had a personality injection that made me sit up and take notice straightaway. So far she was always the ditzy pouty blonde whose life existed solely around her dear Greaseball and now she comes across as far stronger with way more sass – and I did like that a lot and it was certainly a good step forward from the countless female cliché musical characters whose only point of existence seems to be pining for a man. There was much whinging in the land when they first announced that Poppa would be replaced by Momma and honestly, this also worked well for me. Reva Rice has oodles of charisma and a great voice (it made me smile to think I had seen her as Pearl in London many years ago) and a mother figure for the ramshackle set of freight trucks really seems fitting. Add Coco the female engine and the female Rocky into the mix and it does all feel more balanced across the board. Was it necessary? I don't know, I can think of many shows far more in desperate need of a rethink when it comes to the portrayal of females, but it doesn't feel wrong either and I'm fine with these changes. As for the costumes and technical changes: I feel ambivalent about most of them. I didn't need the projections of railway tracks or freight yards but I didn't mind them either. Most of the costume changes were fine too – I liked Electra's new monochromatic design that feels more in line with his components and generally more modern than the earlier red/blue get-up and the females were fine, too. Pearl's new look is a bit –too- bland and sleek for me, more nurse's outfit than first class, but it's still preferable to the awful pink wig she had in the last 10-15 years that was always more My Little Pony than model train. I liked Coco the female engine and the tiny female boxer that was now part of the Rocky gang and the new Killerwatt component. The only one that didn't work at all for me was Caboose – I suppose they went for some sort of teenage wannabe-gangsta style with bandanna and naff hat, but he mostly just looked silly, but then the role was ruined years ago when they took Dein Freund from him. The first half of the new Starlight Sequence was absolutely brilliant – I thought it would be strange without the green laser that was such an iconic part of the show, but the floating stars were incredibly beautiful – sadly they then ruined it all by transforming Rusty himself into a disco glitter ball. Cringe. I have nothing bad to say about the new cast – quite incredibly for Starlight Express, I had ALL first casts in the leads (except Caboose, who hardly qualifies as a lead anymore) and not a weak link among them. Blake Patrick Anderson is a totally adorable Rusty, all curly mop of hair and cute dimples, though I wish there had been more vocal power behind his "Starlight Express" which seemed strangely quiet (although I was incredibly happy that the old proper version has been reinstated). I was also very taken by Rose Ouellette's strong Dinah, for me the most improved character, but honestly, everyone was fab. So overall... I'd say the good outweighs the bad here. It will never be the show again that I grew up with in the 90s anyway, so I don't feel the loss of the recent version strongly and most of the shake-ups feel for the better. They only need to fix the awful overture and generally get the show off to a better start again and I'm good. The new orchestrations definitely make the small band sound fuller than the reduced tinny orchestra in the last years, so that was another pro. Lastly, I'm reminded of my first return visit to Phantom of the Opera after a long break, where I found myself bored silly, because the stage sets and everything seemed so creaky and outdated 80s style and I knew exactly what each scene was looking like and how it would be acted – and I've never felt the desire to see it again after that. And with so many long-runners clogging up the West End that start to feel like museum pieces, I do think it makes sense to shake up Starlight Express from time to time – just like they'd do if a show closed and was then revived in a new form 10-15 years later. A great read! Thanks so much. I agree with lots you say and yes they have ruined the beginning of the show! The skate around and leibessexpress used to give me goosebumps!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:12:36 GMT
Having seen the new version of Starlight Express now, I guess I should write a few lines (and by a few I mean a few thousand of course…). Let me pre-empt this with a disclaimer: While I've heard some whinging that "this is not the Starlight Express I've loved for so long" from other fans in Germany, I've had this feeling ever since the big overhaul in 2002, when the very first version I loved, cherished and saw many times was replaced with a new one, axing favourite songs like Dein Freund/There's Me and Du allein/Only you. So while I've been dubious considering the many changes (mostly for the worst) in recent years, I've tried to approach this with an open mind. So let's get the bad stuff out of the way first: The new "Overture" is a disaster. The old one – with the music building steadily to a climax until the "trains" rolled on the bridge and down the upper tracks was just the perfect introduction to the show. Now just before the music reaches its climax, it's rudely killed off by the Control voice, the stage is bathed in too bright light and the introduction of the trains just falls completely flat. The whole first 10-15 minutes felt oddly disjointed with too much dialogue and too few proper songs. I get the idea of a "better" setup for the show where Rusty is the kid's oldest model train and Pearl the latest model train to be introduced to the train set,, but it just doesn't really work for me. We don't need this to get into this fairy tale/dream. The new song "Ich bin ich" is... questionable. It's not bad, but it feels crammed in to make a politically correct point of the girls not being mere appendages to the male engines and I really don't need that kind of issues rammed down my throat in such a show. However, it's not all bad, because sometimes you aren't aware of how stupid something was until you've seen it changed. After 30 years, Dinah the dining car seems to have suddenly had a personality injection that made me sit up and take notice straightaway. So far she was always the ditzy pouty blonde whose life existed solely around her dear Greaseball and now she comes across as far stronger with way more sass – and I did like that a lot and it was certainly a good step forward from the countless female cliché musical characters whose only point of existence seems to be pining for a man. There was much whinging in the land when they first announced that Poppa would be replaced by Momma and honestly, this also worked well for me. Reva Rice has oodles of charisma and a great voice (it made me smile to think I had seen her as Pearl in London many years ago) and a mother figure for the ramshackle set of freight trucks really seems fitting. Add Coco the female engine and the female Rocky into the mix and it does all feel more balanced across the board. Was it necessary? I don't know, I can think of many shows far more in desperate need of a rethink when it comes to the portrayal of females, but it doesn't feel wrong either and I'm fine with these changes. As for the costumes and technical changes: I feel ambivalent about most of them. I didn't need the projections of railway tracks or freight yards but I didn't mind them either. Most of the costume changes were fine too – I liked Electra's new monochromatic design that feels more in line with his components and generally more modern than the earlier red/blue get-up and the females were fine, too. Pearl's new look is a bit –too- bland and sleek for me, more nurse's outfit than first class, but it's still preferable to the awful pink wig she had in the last 10-15 years that was always more My Little Pony than model train. I liked Coco the female engine and the tiny female boxer that was now part of the Rocky gang and the new Killerwatt component. The only one that didn't work at all for me was Caboose – I suppose they went for some sort of teenage wannabe-gangsta style with bandanna and naff hat, but he mostly just looked silly, but then the role was ruined years ago when they took Dein Freund from him. The first half of the new Starlight Sequence was absolutely brilliant – I thought it would be strange without the green laser that was such an iconic part of the show, but the floating stars were incredibly beautiful – sadly they then ruined it all by transforming Rusty himself into a disco glitter ball. Cringe. I have nothing bad to say about the new cast – quite incredibly for Starlight Express, I had ALL first casts in the leads (except Caboose, who hardly qualifies as a lead anymore) and not a weak link among them. Blake Patrick Anderson is a totally adorable Rusty, all curly mop of hair and cute dimples, though I wish there had been more vocal power behind his "Starlight Express" which seemed strangely quiet (although I was incredibly happy that the old proper version has been reinstated). I was also very taken by Rose Ouellette's strong Dinah, for me the most improved character, but honestly, everyone was fab. So overall... I'd say the good outweighs the bad here. It will never be the show again that I grew up with in the 90s anyway, so I don't feel the loss of the recent version strongly and most of the shake-ups feel for the better. They only need to fix the awful overture and generally get the show off to a better start again and I'm good. The new orchestrations definitely make the small band sound fuller than the reduced tinny orchestra in the last years, so that was another pro. Lastly, I'm reminded of my first return visit to Phantom of the Opera after a long break, where I found myself bored silly, because the stage sets and everything seemed so creaky and outdated 80s style and I knew exactly what each scene was looking like and how it would be acted – and I've never felt the desire to see it again after that. And with so many long-runners clogging up the West End that start to feel like museum pieces, I do think it makes sense to shake up Starlight Express from time to time – just like they'd do if a show closed and was then revived in a new form 10-15 years later. Wonderful to read your thoughts Viserys! Great that you found the good outweighed the bad. I agree with so much. I am also quite happy with Mama, played with great character by Reva I thought. Likewise the new Electra and Pearl costumes I like. But agree, the opening is just not as good - the total goosebumps moment of Rusty pulling the carriages over the bridge I really miss. And all through the show I miss the bridge and a well lit physical set. And the least said about the disco ball chest the better. Other than that part of the sequence is the true heart of the show for me - they need to improve it! Hoping to book to go again soon now I have had some time to get used to the new version. It's very true what you say - updates are needed to keep long running shows fresh. We'll see what the next 10 years bring :-)
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2,702 posts
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Post by viserys on Jul 20, 2018 8:26:50 GMT
Thanks - you should PM me again, you know
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16 posts
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Post by coricolonzo on Nov 2, 2018 12:54:35 GMT
Something special happened at lasts night performance (unfortunately I wasn't part of it):
Manga (previously known as Hashamoto in Germany and Nintendo in the UK) was played in the 2nd act by a female swing (Sian Jones).
Looks like 9 male swings aren't enough. Stop joking - really hope nobody is hardly injured.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 1:12:56 GMT
Something special happened at lasts night performance (unfortunately I wasn't part of it): Manga (previously known as Hashamoto in Germany and Nintendo in the UK) was played in the 2nd act by a female swing (Sian Jones). Looks like 9 male swings aren't enough. Stop joking - really hope nobody is hardly injured. Love that Starlight can do gender reversal for most of the ensemble characters! They use to have a male Wrench not infrequently (in fact I think Marc McFadyen officially covered Wrench).
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271 posts
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Post by gmoneyoutlaw on Nov 13, 2018 1:11:03 GMT
I'm seeing the show on my birthday. I saw the show in 1988 on broadway and 1993 in London. I can say I know the show, I don't know it in German.
Are their resources out there to help the english speaking audience. I'll enjoy it either way as I did Hunchback in Berlin back in 2000. But I'm bringing three Americans with me and I would like to be able to offer them help as they are not familiar with the story or music.
Thank you for any help you can provide.
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2,702 posts
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Post by viserys on Nov 13, 2018 5:18:06 GMT
There's a big thread on this in the "International" section of the forum, so maybe this could be moved? And what do you mean by resources? The story fits on a stamp and there are English-language recordings around to listen to. I took an American friend who knew nothing about the show and wasn't into musicals even as far back as the mid 90s and she loved it. So I'm sure your friends will enjoy, as much as this present "new" version can be enjoyed.
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4,369 posts
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Post by Michael on Nov 13, 2018 5:39:44 GMT
There's a big thread on this in the "International" section of the forum, so maybe this could be moved? Done
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