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Post by gskater on Jun 10, 2018 22:24:08 GMT
I adore Andrew Lloyd Webber for so many of his amazing songs. That I GOT ME new song melody is the most annoying horrible repetitive tune I’ve ever heard in my life. To think that replaced A Lotta Locomotion makes me want to set myself on fire and throw myself on a train track in protest! Arggghhhhhh!!! I actually like I got me. Much prefer it to a whole lotta locomotion. It’s been stuck in my head since the workshop.
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Post by Raven on Jun 11, 2018 12:10:17 GMT
Reva Rice fell during one of the races in act 1 last night. They haven't managed to rehearse the swing for her yet so there was no cover for her. She sang the rest of the show from a wheelchair in a disabled seating area space of the auditorium. We don't know how badly injured she is though so will be interesting to see what happens on Wednesday.
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Post by musicalmarge on Jun 11, 2018 19:55:26 GMT
That’s not good news.
On another note I don’t get why the admins have LOCKED the starlight UK thread on the musicals page when we are discussing the workshop from Other Palace as well as future UK plans following the new German production this week.
Wrong choice in my opinion, if it was Frozen I would understand.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 10:14:48 GMT
Anyone from here going to Bochum this weekend for the Jubilaum Shows?
I’m off tmr morning. Can’t wait :-)
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Post by musicalmarge on Jun 16, 2018 8:37:14 GMT
Me. I’m here in Bochum now!
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Post by musicalmarge on Jun 21, 2018 0:24:24 GMT
Anyone from here going to Bochum this weekend for the Jubilaum Shows? I’m off tmr morning. Can’t wait :-) Any thoughts Dom?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 13:53:13 GMT
Anyone from here going to Bochum this weekend for the Jubilaum Shows? I’m off tmr morning. Can’t wait :-) Any thoughts Dom? So I wrote a review on one of the FB sites. Wondered if was too long for here! But in fact here’s a copy of it. Love to hear other people’s thoughts :-) Just back in Brighton after a weekend in Bochum seeing the new show. I saw the show Saturday evening and then twice on Sunday. Was a fabulous weekend! On Sunday evening they had invited all the old casts back so the atmosphere was electric. Spent a lot of time playing spot the actor! Arlene gave a lovely speech before the show started and thanked all the casts. At the end they all filled the stage for photos – was great! So what about the show? I guess the headline is that overall they have done an amazing job. Was clear that the whole team had come together with a shared vision to create something special and I think they achieved it. A lot of the isolated info about songs, arrangements, cuts, costumes etc that has been drip fed over the last few weeks and caused concern among fans, actually when you see the show as a whole, it’s all fine. There were things I didn’t like, but I think most are just down to my personal taste. Saturday evening I was unsure about lots of stuff (I LOVED the 25th anniversary version, so was hard to say goodbye to it) but by Sunday evening I was much happier. The show: Considering there is just one new song, the show feels completely different. They have really concentrated on a strong and logical narrative and a lot of problems with storytelling from the past have been ironed out. It is pretty much the same version as The Other Palace from what I could tell. Though exactly how it translates I don’t know as I don’t speak German. There is much more focus (via a new lighting design) on the characters that are singing. There is also a bit more singing between main songs, all plot driven I assume. There is also a lot more light and shade and things happen at a more gentle pace. The design: Light and sound are completely redesigned. It sounds great. You hear the actor’s voice from where they are standing rather than just everything coming from the front. The set design I slightly struggled with though. I am a set geek and I LOVE physical sets. I have a great fondness for the mega sets of the 80s, before projections came along. I am obsessed with the Starlight bridge and I love the chrome and metal of the tracks, the see-saw, the little gates that go up and down to lead onto the see-saw/bridge etc etc. Now they are still there, but the whole set has been painted black, so that it can show all the projections. It means that you don’t really see them as you did before (sorry, it’s a bit hard to explain what I mean). The bridge which used to be the centre piece is now often high up out of the way so you can see the projections on the back wall. And when it isn’t it’s so dark that it’s great structure is hard to appreciate. It does now have 56 colour changing lights on it’s underside and acts more as part of the lighting design. Anyway, it may well just be me for which this is an issue. My own misgivings aside, the projections were great. Used to frame scenes to show we are moving to different locations. The station, a freight yard, a field with trees, somewhere with graffiti etc etc. They often changed as characters skated to a new location. Very clever. Lighting is more focused which is good for the storytelling. Overall the show is slightly darker I think. There were lots of scenes in the previous version where they just chucked every colour going at things and lit up the whole theatre. Now we have themes of colours and more focus where the action is. Again a personal thing, I missed the bright sensory overload of colour everywhere. Prob just me though! (Don’t get me wrong, it’s still an incredibly colourful show, just not all the time). Costumes: All fine I thought! Electra looks great (his costume lights up different colours) and Pearl’s new costume made sense with her new more shy character. Choreography: Lots of new stuff. Bit less dancing than previous version maybe? Also the skating at times felt a bit slower. I think probably because many of the numbers are slower. Rolling Stock and Right Place in particular. This seemed to have a positive effect on the singing. Never heard the voices sounding so good. New characters: Were good I thought! Loved Killerwatt, really cool costume. Coco got a great cheer. Mama worked brilliantly. Carrie and Belle were fine, but under developed. Male Volta – really cool. Cast: Amazing, not a weak link. Was full cast other than Carla Pullen as Carrie all weekend and Dennis Spee as Volta. Had Bianca Atalaya as Mama Sat eve and Sun mat. Reva back for Sun eve though. Bianca was fab but Reva was incredible – had the audience eating out of her hand! Overall – I think all the fans on here are gonna love it, there’s a lot of good there. I think to be honest is a better musical now which makes much more sense. I think I will grow to love it as I did the old version. I just miss the old design a bit! And I also miss the intense pace and relentless multi-colour lighting of the 25th. But I can’t wait to go again! 2 more posts I wrote.... Should also mention there are some really cool elements of the new lighting design and overall it looks very very slick and they have clearly spent a lot of money on it! It's less cheesy! (Though I am someone that does like cheese. In appropriate amounts lol). Gosh, so much I've forgotten. Another thing, I loved the new Caboose. Played brilliantly by Daniel Ellison. Really worked. Also the drone sequence in I Am The Starlight was breathtaking. Though the bit after where Rusty's chest becomes a glitter ball - I liked; I think others might feel it spoils the moment!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 18:25:28 GMT
What I'd love to know now is whether there are any plans to bring this version to the UK! I hope so.....
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Post by bodobear on Jun 22, 2018 8:09:11 GMT
What I'd love to know now is whether there are any plans to bring this version to the UK! I hope so..... I’m pretty sure they’re looking at bringing it back to London...
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Post by Raven on Jun 22, 2018 18:01:28 GMT
What I'd love to know now is whether there are any plans to bring this version to the UK! I hope so..... I’m pretty sure they’re looking at bringing it back to London... ALW stated in his autobiography that he was looking at bringing Starlight back for a UK tour as well as a production in Asia. There's definitely hope!
Thanks for your in-depth review, Dom! Very interesting to read all the changes and what you thought worked and didn't work.
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Post by musicalmarge on Jun 25, 2018 7:52:24 GMT
I thought the new version was very good but I had lots of issues with it.
If you’re going to change Papa to Mama - at least give her a different song or something. It was word for word what Papa said and sang. Why change sex? What’s the issue?
The two new carraiges seemed change for changing sake. Cutting Lotta locomotion is a bad idea because it’s THAT song that explains to the audience who they are and what they do. It was unclear. The costumes also didn’t work.
The entrance to the show has now lost all its magic also. The “skate around” as it’s called used to give me goosebumps, was one of the best moments in theatre and now it’s abrupt and GONE!!! Whyy on earth did they cut that?!
Rolling Stock too has lost the power, danger and strength it used to have and the dance break is now 1/5th of the skating/jumps/tricks it used to be.
AC/DC is ruined. Electra’s choreography has all been cut and it’s now just boring. The new gray costume and wig horrible. The components just stand there and hardly dance anymore!
Starlight Sequence used to be the biggest goosebump giver of any song EVER for me. The new hydraulic/drone/glitterball version is amazing but doesn’t work as well as the old green laser one. The constant key changes between Mama and Rusty really stops the emotional crescendo.
The new Rockie number doesn’t work. It’s slower, less energetic and I just couldn’t put my finger on why the audience didn’t love it as much. Again the magic has gone and the new costumes awful.
The races are now confusing, I missed Du Allein (Only You) and the cut Megamix with the new medley and ending was also odd. You didn’t know if the show had finished or not.
I liked many of the new changes but for me - they have ruined the show. 6/10. (It used to be 9.5/10)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 9:14:37 GMT
I thought the new version was very good but I had lots of issues with it. If you’re going to change Papa to Mama - at least give her a different song or something. It was word for word what Papa said and sang. Why change sex? What’s the issue? The two new carraiges seemed change for changing sake. Cutting Lotta locomotion is a bad idea because it’s fhag song that explains to the audience who they are and what they do. It was unclear. The costumes also didn’t work. The entrance to the show has now lost all its magic also. The skate around used to give me goosebumps and now it’s abrupt. Rolling Stock too has lost the power, danger and strength it used to have and the dance break is now 1/5th of the skating/jumps/tricks it used to be. AC/DC is ruined. Electra’s choreography has all been cut and it’s now just boring. The components just stand there! Starlight Sequence used to be the biggest goosebump giver of any song EVER for me. The new hydraulic/drone/glitterball version is amazing but doesn’t work as well as the old green laser one. The constant key changes between Mama and Rusty really stops the emotional crescendo. The new Rockie number doesn’t work. It’s slower, less energetic and I just couldn’t put my finger on why the audience didn’t love it as much. Again the magic has gone. The races are now confusing, I missed Du Allein (Only You) and the cut Megamix with the new medley and ending was also odd. You didn’t know if the show had finished or not. I liked many of the new changes but for me - they have ruined the show. 6/10 Good to read your review. Agree with a lot of your points! For me the main issues with the new show were also the loss of some of the goosebump moments and loss of pace and energy in parts. Ditto re the Rockies number. And I really don't like the headgear. Covers so much head/face that I think it's hard for the actors to bring individual character. There's loads I do like though. Out of interest, what were the new changes you liked?!
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Post by d'James on Jun 25, 2018 14:27:56 GMT
I’m really sad about the intro. The bit where Rusty and the carriages appeared over the bridge was one of the most magical moments in Theatre ever. Sounds like they’ve totally ruined that for a cheap joke.
I hope they’re open to changes over the next few months.
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Post by viserys on Jun 25, 2018 19:01:42 GMT
Virtually everyone I've heard talking about the new version has been bitching over the new overture and how much it sucked. I won't see the new show for another few weeks but if for once in the history of musical theatre everyone is in agreement about something, maybe they'll listen.
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Post by musicalmarge on Jun 25, 2018 21:06:15 GMT
I thought the new version was very good but I had lots of issues with it. If you’re going to change Papa to Mama - at least give her a different song or something. It was word for word what Papa said and sang. Why change sex? What’s the issue? The two new carraiges seemed change for changing sake. Cutting Lotta locomotion is a bad idea because it’s fhag song that explains to the audience who they are and what they do. It was unclear. The costumes also didn’t work. The entrance to the show has now lost all its magic also. The skate around used to give me goosebumps and now it’s abrupt. Rolling Stock too has lost the power, danger and strength it used to have and the dance break is now 1/5th of the skating/jumps/tricks it used to be. AC/DC is ruined. Electra’s choreography has all been cut and it’s now just boring. The components just stand there! Starlight Sequence used to be the biggest goosebump giver of any song EVER for me. The new hydraulic/drone/glitterball version is amazing but doesn’t work as well as the old green laser one. The constant key changes between Mama and Rusty really stops the emotional crescendo. The new Rockie number doesn’t work. It’s slower, less energetic and I just couldn’t put my finger on why the audience didn’t love it as much. Again the magic has gone. The races are now confusing, I missed Du Allein (Only You) and the cut Megamix with the new medley and ending was also odd. You didn’t know if the show had finished or not. I liked many of the new changes but for me - they have ruined the show. 6/10 Good to read your review. Agree with a lot of your points! For me the main issues with the new show were also the loss of some of the goosebump moments and loss of pace and energy in parts. Ditto re the Rockies number. And I really don't like the headgear. Covers so much head/face that I think it's hard for the actors to bring individual character. There's loads I do like though. Out of interest, what were the new changes you liked?! This is what I did like - I like the female engine Coco. I liked Brexit the UK train. I liked some of the incidental/recitative music and hints of other songs I loved Whistle At Me and the jokes about Pearl asking Rusty can he whistle. I liked Pearl being First Class and not the Observation Car. I also liked her being Pearl coloured and not pink (although I didn’t like the new wig and off headgear Georgina had to wear. I liked that race 2 is now long (it used to be very short) LOVED the drones and Rusty lift but the rest of Starlight Sequence was a mess. I love the new inline trax stunt skaters they brought in 2010 or whenever it was. I liked Dinah being made more of a comedy role. I love the fireworks on the skates for Greaseball. I liked Cabooses costume and that he mentions fake news. Gutted they cut his song Ganz Allien from Act 1. It makes the part much smaller and you really get to see the sweet side of CB. This makes much more sense when he turns in Act 2. Loved Pearl being saved on the bridge in race 4 (this used to be on the flat stage. Loved the role KillerWatt and his costume though again it was change for change sake. I hated I Got Me but actually liked it as incidental music and when Rusty wins the race. Generally none of the changes make the show ANY better, in general they have ruined what was theatre magic. I asked 20 people who saw the same show and everyone’s opinion was the same. It’s good and works but the creatives have ruined what was theatre gold. Next year Debbie Heardon (the big boss there) is retiring so I really wonder what will come of Starlight in Bochum. I think they will change lots of It back after a few years. That said the German team have nothing to do with the new show, RUG came in, told them to do it and that was that!
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Post by bodobear on Jun 26, 2018 7:18:23 GMT
Next year Debbie Heardon (the big boss there) is retiring so I really wonder what will come of Starlight in Bochum. I think they will change lots of It back after a few years. That said the German team have nothing to do with the new show, RUG came in, told them to do it and that was that! Oh I didn’t even know Debbie is going to retire next year! Mehr! Entertainment keep saying they hope to keep the show running for another 5-10 years but I’m honestly not sure that’s going to happen. Ticket sales have been quite bad I believe (judging from all the offers in the past couple of months) and I doubt the new show will get more people back into the theatre. So we’ll see if they have a few years to change things back. 😅
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 17:11:09 GMT
Next year Debbie Heardon (the big boss there) is retiring so I really wonder what will come of Starlight in Bochum. I think they will change lots of It back after a few years. That said the German team have nothing to do with the new show, RUG came in, told them to do it and that was that! Oh I didn’t even know Debbie is going to retire next year! Mehr! Entertainment keep saying they hope to keep the show running for another 5-10 years but I’m honestly not sure that’s going to happen. Ticket sales have been quite bad I believe (judging from all the offers in the past couple of months) and I doubt the new show will get more people back into the theatre. So we’ll see if they have a few years to change things back. 😅 I also didn't know Debbie was retiring. She's been there almost since the start hasn't she? As resident choreographer/director is that right? I am never quite sure how involved Stephen Rosso, Michael Fraley, Ruth Stephens and Arlene are day to day and what they all do. The latter I suspect minimally day to day. Anyway, where have you heard Mehr putting a date on how long they want it to run just out of interest? I've not seen this anywhere. Surely they can't predict 5-10 years. At any one point a producer can only really say it's likely or unlikely to close within 6 months ish! I don't really know the economics of running this production. What I do know is I have been going for 10 years and it is almost never full. Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon tend to be busy ish. Sunday afternoon can be very quiet. I haven't noticed a change in that time! I guess it doesn't need to sell out to make money. Is it well advertised in Germany beyond Bochum and the Ruhr? Do Germans come from further afield to visit? Also anyone know of individual ticket discounts? I only ever see Mother's Dad, Valentine's Day, Friends and Family etc etc but rarely cheap tickets for the solo traveller? Every year they do seats at the price of the bday (€30 last year) but that's it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 17:13:06 GMT
Good to read your review. Agree with a lot of your points! For me the main issues with the new show were also the loss of some of the goosebump moments and loss of pace and energy in parts. Ditto re the Rockies number. And I really don't like the headgear. Covers so much head/face that I think it's hard for the actors to bring individual character. There's loads I do like though. Out of interest, what were the new changes you liked?! I think they will change lots of It back after a few years. That said the German team have nothing to do with the new show, RUG came in, told them to do it and that was that! I think RUG have done this with all changes over the years. Not sure they are allowed to initiate changes locally? I agree I think some things will inevitably revert back....
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Post by bodobear on Jun 26, 2018 17:35:32 GMT
Oh I didn’t even know Debbie is going to retire next year! Mehr! Entertainment keep saying they hope to keep the show running for another 5-10 years but I’m honestly not sure that’s going to happen. Ticket sales have been quite bad I believe (judging from all the offers in the past couple of months) and I doubt the new show will get more people back into the theatre. So we’ll see if they have a few years to change things back. 😅 I also didn't know Debbie was retiring. She's been there almost since the start hasn't she? As resident choreographer/director is that right? I am never quite sure how involved Stephen Rosso, Michael Fraley, Ruth Stephens and Arlene are day to day and what they all do. The latter I suspect minimally day to day. Anyway, where have you heard Mehr putting a date on how long they want it to run just out of interest? I've not seen this anywhere. Surely they can't predict 5-10 years. At any one point a producer can only really say it's likely or unlikely to close within 6 months ish! I don't really know the economics of running this production. What I do know is I have been going for 10 years and it is almost never full. Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon tend to be busy ish. Sunday afternoon can be very quiet. I haven't noticed a change in that time! I guess it doesn't need to sell out to make money. Is it well advertised in Germany beyond Bochum and the Ruhr? Do Germans come from further afield to visit? Also anyone know of individual ticket discounts? I only ever see Mother's Dad, Valentine's Day, Friends and Family etc etc but rarely cheap tickets for the solo traveller? Every year they do seats at the price of the bday (€30 last year) but that's it! Mehr! or Maik Klokow have said in several interviews that they expect the show to run for another 5-10 years now with the new version. Prior to initiating the changes they apparently just gave it another 6-12 months if I remember correctly. That could of course just be another selling point as to why people should come and see the show now... I have only really been going quite a lot in the past year (17/18 Cast) and the 12/13 Cast year and the 06-08 years, and just once or twice a year in the years between that, and they usually were able to pretty much sell out the place during school holidays, especially summer or Christmas, but last year, even with ticket offers throughout the year, you could still easily get decent tickets during those peak periods on the day. As I’m from Düsseldorf myself originally, so not too far from Bochum, I’m not sure how well it is advertised. Bochum heavily relies on tourists coming to see Starlight but I remember an article recently where they said that about half the visitors are from the broad area. As for ticket discounts. They usually have one on the Open Day (also available online I believe), and they did Black Friday sales in the past years (30€ or 60€).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 17:52:21 GMT
Ahh thanks that's very interesting! Thinking back it probably was busier a decade ago - as I go every year maybe I don't notice the reduction in audiences! I have never seen the Rang used though. There was also a period before the 360 degree chairs when the two seating areas at front of Parkett where covered up and not used at all.
I do really hope they do everything they can to keep this running in the long term. Hoping it will go on indefinitely like Les Mis and Phantom in London. But of course they must sell tickets for that to happen. As the world musical with the most visitors to one theatre there is surely something there that needs protection.
They should advertise it more in England - sure many MT fans here who have no idea of it's existence would love it!
Ahhh yes, I have used the Black Friday deals before!
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Post by viserys on Jun 26, 2018 18:13:25 GMT
The local rag ran some interesting statistics for the 30th anniversary:
89% of all Germans (well those asked in a survey) knew Starlight Express by name
Last season they had 416,000 visitors (not a bad number at all)
49% of all visitors hail from North Rhine-Westphalia (so presumably daytrippers), 10% from Baden-Württemberg, 8% from Bavaria and 6% from Hessen and Rheinland-Pfalz respectively (can't be arsed to look up the English names of these states, sorry). Those from further afield stay 1-2 nights and do some sightseeing in the area as well.
Inn 1987 (before the show opened) Bochum counted 166,000 overnight stays in their hotels, 2017 they had 646,000. Which is of course not ONLY to do with Starlight Express, but a significant increase (especially compared with other cities in the area).
So... I don't think they really NEED to do a lot of marketing. People know it exists and is there to be seen like a theme park or something that'll never go away. I'm sure a bigger marketing buzz would sell a few more tickets, but they seem to be content. It helps that there is so little competition in the Ruhrgebiet area too. Düsseldorf's Capitol Theatre is only showing mediocre tours these days, so that leaves the overpriced Stage Entertainment theatre in Oberhausen (and I suppose there are several who combine both shows).
I'm also quite sure the city would be terrified of losing Starlight Express and might help with some nice hidden subsidies somewhere.
And yes, if they had any sense, they would do regular performances in English, not just for English musical theatre fans, but primarily for people from neighbouring countries. The Netherlands are just an hour's drive away for example.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 16:57:09 GMT
The local rag ran some interesting statistics for the 30th anniversary: 89% of all Germans (well those asked in a survey) knew Starlight Express by name Last season they had 416,000 visitors (not a bad number at all) 49% of all visitors hail from North Rhine-Westphalia (so presumably daytrippers), 10% from Baden-Württemberg, 8% from Bavaria and 6% from Hessen and Rheinland-Pfalz respectively (can't be arsed to look up the English names of these states, sorry). Those from further afield stay 1-2 nights and do some sightseeing in the area as well. Inn 1987 (before the show opened) Bochum counted 166,000 overnight stays in their hotels, 2017 they had 646,000. Which is of course not ONLY to do with Starlight Express, but a significant increase (especially compared with other cities in the area). So... I don't think they really NEED to do a lot of marketing. People know it exists and is there to be seen like a theme park or something that'll never go away. I'm sure a bigger marketing buzz would sell a few more tickets, but they seem to be content. It helps that there is so little competition in the Ruhrgebiet area too. Düsseldorf's Capitol Theatre is only showing mediocre tours these days, so that leaves the overpriced Stage Entertainment theatre in Oberhausen (and I suppose there are several who combine both shows). I'm also quite sure the city would be terrified of losing Starlight Express and might help with some nice hidden subsidies somewhere. And yes, if they had any sense, they would do regular performances in English, not just for English musical theatre fans, but primarily for people from neighbouring countries. The Netherlands are just an hour's drive away for example. Thanks Viserys, that's all really interesting info! Cleary is something of an institution in Germany if 89% of people know it by name. Agree I think there is a feel that is something like a theme park that will never go away (I slightly naively hope it will be there forever!) And quite clearly it has made a difference to the economic fortune of Bochum. I watched the German documentary recently on TV and I hadn't previously known how much the City had fought to stage Starlight and it was their idea to build a theatre. I had always thought it was RUG who had picked Bochum and decided to build a theatre as a solution to the inherent problems in staging Starlight in a conventional theatre.... I also wonder if there are hidden subsidies. Certainly it has managed well for a long time without needing to be regularly sold out! And the economics I guess are quite different to running in a West End theatre.
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Post by viserys on Jun 27, 2018 17:14:39 GMT
I watched the German documentary recently on TV and I hadn't previously known how much the City had fought to stage Starlight and it was their idea to build a theatre. I had always thought it was RUG who had picked Bochum and decided to build a theatre as a solution to the inherent problems in staging Starlight in a conventional theatre....
Germany owes basically everything to Friedrich Kurz, the guy featured in the docu (I was SO pleased they brought him in for it) and by extension to Peter Weck, who had taken over the Theater an der Wien in Vienna in 1983 and brought "Cats" as his first production. The German version of Memory became a huge chart hit in both countries and "Cats" was a sell-out smash hit in Vienna (featuring, among others, a young Ute Lemper, Steve Barton and of course Angelika Milster as Grizabella). Tourists swamped Vienna wanting to see it and Kurz realized that this could work in Germany too, where theatregoers had long been alienated by Regietheater nonsense and theatre in general was seen as something dull, heady and elitist. So he talked the council in Hamburg into letting him have the un-used Operettenhaus at the dull end of the Reeperbahn and he brought "Cats" there in 1986. And the Vienna story repeated itself... with thousands storming the theatre, many from far away, spending money in hotels, restaurants, etc.
This got Bochum's attention, as, as the docu said, city coffers were empty with the traditional industries in the Ruhrgebiet going downhill and they were hoping to draw tourists with a musical. Hence Starlight Express, for which Kurz had to fight a lot of bile by the elitist local theatres who were whinging about the financial support he got or simply deriding the show as commercial crap. Meanwhile up in Hamburg they wanted to add another musical and Hamburg wanted to give Kurz the "Flora Theatre", which sadly, was in the middle of a very left-wing anarchist area, so there were massive protests and Hamburg decided to rather build a new theatre nearby, hence the name Neue (New) Flora. When Phantom of the Opera opened there, opening night guests were pelted with eggs and worse by rioters, so many people who had planned to see the show cancelled again.
If Kurz hadn't persevered against all the typical German "egads, something new, don't want this, don't need this" mentality and fought to established his three shows, musicals as a genre had never established itself. I still wonder what had happened if he had been able to hold on Stella (his production company) and I'm pleased the docu acknowledged his work. I also remember how often he was on TV back then, explaining, promoting, introducing his shows. These days Stage Entertainment does hardly anything of the sort. They just slap the shows on stage, run a few lame TV commercials and then wonder why people aren't coming and close a fantastic show like Kinky Boots after less than year due to terrible sales.
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Post by viserys on Jun 27, 2018 19:01:40 GMT
The German version of Memory became a huge chart hit Is this it? . If so, I was impressed.
Indeed, that was (is) Angelika Milster's original version from Vienna (they used another translation in Hamburg later and had a far weaker Grizabella, sadly). I saw there's also a clip from when she appeared on TV in what was basically the German version of "Top of the Pops" with great ratings:
I was a kid at the time, but I remember how her appearances on that show made everyone sit up and take notice because "What's that woman doing there dressed as a cat?!" and then she sang that killer song and I don't want to know how many people picked up the phone to book tickets to Cats.
It all has a very special place in my heart because the Vienna cast recording of Cats was the very first musical album (vinyl!) I ever bought and I don't exaggerate when I say it changed my life completely.
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Post by tommy on Jul 1, 2018 19:55:39 GMT
Also find this fascinating being the longest running open end musical in Germany I think (on the same location). Germany like Holland seems to do well in terms of musical theatre, but still impressive how they keep this show running for so many years. Saw it a couple of years ago, I usually prefer a (West End) theatre instead of such a large arena, but have to say I was impressed and consider to revist this one at some point. The local rag ran some interesting statistics for the 30th anniversary: 89% of all Germans (well those asked in a survey) knew Starlight Express by name Last season they had 416,000 visitors (not a bad number at all) 49% of all visitors hail from North Rhine-Westphalia (so presumably daytrippers), 10% from Baden-Württemberg, 8% from Bavaria and 6% from Hessen and Rheinland-Pfalz respectively (can't be arsed to look up the English names of these states, sorry). Those from further afield stay 1-2 nights and do some sightseeing in the area as well. Inn 1987 (before the show opened) Bochum counted 166,000 overnight stays in their hotels, 2017 they had 646,000. Which is of course not ONLY to do with Starlight Express, but a significant increase (especially compared with other cities in the area). So... I don't think they really NEED to do a lot of marketing. People know it exists and is there to be seen like a theme park or something that'll never go away. I'm sure a bigger marketing buzz would sell a few more tickets, but they seem to be content. It helps that there is so little competition in the Ruhrgebiet area too. Düsseldorf's Capitol Theatre is only showing mediocre tours these days, so that leaves the overpriced Stage Entertainment theatre in Oberhausen (and I suppose there are several who combine both shows). I'm also quite sure the city would be terrified of losing Starlight Express and might help with some nice hidden subsidies somewhere. And yes, if they had any sense, they would do regular performances in English, not just for English musical theatre fans, but primarily for people from neighbouring countries. The Netherlands are just an hour's drive away for example. Thanks Viserys, that's all really interesting info! Cleary is something of an institution in Germany if 89% of people know it by name. Agree I think there is a feel that is something like a theme park that will never go away (I slightly naively hope it will be there forever!) And quite clearly it has made a difference to the economic fortune of Bochum. I watched the German documentary recently on TV and I hadn't previously known how much the City had fought to stage Starlight and it was their idea to build a theatre. I had always thought it was RUG who had picked Bochum and decided to build a theatre as a solution to the inherent problems in staging Starlight in a conventional theatre.... I also wonder if there are hidden subsidies. Certainly it has managed well for a long time without needing to be regularly sold out! And the economics I guess are quite different to running in a West End theatre.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 9:01:26 GMT
I watched the German documentary recently on TV and I hadn't previously known how much the City had fought to stage Starlight and it was their idea to build a theatre. I had always thought it was RUG who had picked Bochum and decided to build a theatre as a solution to the inherent problems in staging Starlight in a conventional theatre....
Germany owes basically everything to Friedrich Kurz, the guy featured in the docu (I was SO pleased they brought him in for it) and by extension to Peter Weck, who had taken over the Theater an der Wien in Vienna in 1983 and brought "Cats" as his first production. The German version of Memory became a huge chart hit in both countries and "Cats" was a sell-out smash hit in Vienna (featuring, among others, a young Ute Lemper, Steve Barton and of course Angelika Milster as Grizabella). Tourists swamped Vienna wanting to see it and Kurz realized that this could work in Germany too, where theatregoers had long been alienated by Regietheater nonsense and theatre in general was seen as something dull, heady and elitist. So he talked the council in Hamburg into letting him have the un-used Operettenhaus at the dull end of the Reeperbahn and he brought "Cats" there in 1986. And the Vienna story repeated itself... with thousands storming the theatre, many from far away, spending money in hotels, restaurants, etc.
This got Bochum's attention, as, as the docu said, city coffers were empty with the traditional industries in the Ruhrgebiet going downhill and they were hoping to draw tourists with a musical. Hence Starlight Express, for which Kurz had to fight a lot of bile by the elitist local theatres who were whinging about the financial support he got or simply deriding the show as commercial crap. Meanwhile up in Hamburg they wanted to add another musical and Hamburg wanted to give Kurz the "Flora Theatre", which sadly, was in the middle of a very left-wing anarchist area, so there were massive protests and Hamburg decided to rather build a new theatre nearby, hence the name Neue (New) Flora. When Phantom of the Opera opened there, opening night guests were pelted with eggs and worse by rioters, so many people who had planned to see the show cancelled again.
If Kurz hadn't persevered against all the typical German "egads, something new, don't want this, don't need this" mentality and fought to established his three shows, musicals as a genre had never established itself. I still wonder what had happened if he had been able to hold on Stella (his production company) and I'm pleased the docu acknowledged his work. I also remember how often he was on TV back then, explaining, promoting, introducing his shows. These days Stage Entertainment does hardly anything of the sort. They just slap the shows on stage, run a few lame TV commercials and then wonder why people aren't coming and close a fantastic show like Kinky Boots after less than year due to terrible sales.
I always find your posts about the musical scene in Germany so interesting Viserys :-) As someone who travels to Germany lot as it's really the only country in Europe that has embraced musicals and although clearly there aren't as many as London there is choice and a lot of the great shows mount productions there. So I had not previously heard of Kurz, but certainly sounds have a lot to thank him for. Can I ask then, was he part of Stella, the original producer, or did they play different roles? I remember when Stella went bust (was this due to ventures separate from Starlight?) and Starlight nearly closed... Still gives me shivers as to what might have been. Often heard you talk about how Stage Entertainment do things on the cheap. Sort of makes me think the German equivalent of Kenwright (though surely they can't be THAT cheap lol?!). That said Love Never Dies in Hamburg was done by them (correct me if I am wrong!) and that was the full Aus production and was very impressive I thought. So would you say Mehr, the current Starlight producer, spend a bit more money on their shows? Also are Mehr and Stage completely separate or are they all owned by a parent company? Thanks as ever for your explanations of the German scene!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 9:04:29 GMT
Is this it? . If so, I was impressed.
Indeed, that was (is) Angelika Milster's original version from Vienna (they used another translation in Hamburg later and had a far weaker Grizabella, sadly). I saw there's also a clip from when she appeared on TV in what was basically the German version of "Top of the Pops" with great ratings:
I was a kid at the time, but I remember how her appearances on that show made everyone sit up and take notice because "What's that woman doing there dressed as a cat?!" and then she sang that killer song and I don't want to know how many people picked up the phone to book tickets to Cats.
It all has a very special place in my heart because the Vienna cast recording of Cats was the very first musical album (vinyl!) I ever bought and I don't exaggerate when I say it changed my life completely.
Agree about Memory - in fact the whole Vienna recording is wonderful, shame it's not complete! I also have the Hamburg recording which I like mainly as it is complete (does sound a bit thinner than Vienna though); I too noticed lots of lyric changes. Sadly, though I understand some German, it's not enough to speak it. Do you know why the lyrics were changed? Would you say they were improved from Vienna to Hamburg?!
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Post by viserys on Jul 2, 2018 15:05:30 GMT
Well, thanks, I'm happy to share what I know and I'm glad I'm not boring anyone to tears Do you know why the lyrics were changed? Would you say they were improved from Vienna to Hamburg?! Nope, not really - the Vienna version was more poetic and creative, while the Hamburg version sticks closer to the original... which I don't think is absolutely necessary, so I prefer the better-crafted Vienna version. I have no idea why Hamburg did its own, I ASSUME that it was because there was quite a fierce rivalry back then (Vienna didn't want to lose the German tourist dollar) and they wouldn't allow them to use it? Though later the same translation (bar some tweaks) was used for Phantom in Vienna and Hamburg and the Vienna version of Cats was used when the new "tour in a tent" launched. So I had not previously heard of Kurz, but certainly sounds have a lot to thank him for. Can I ask then, was he part of Stella, the original producer, or did they play different roles? So would you say Mehr, the current Starlight producer, spend a bit more money on their shows? Also are Mehr and Stage completely separate or are they all owned by a parent company? Well, this can get long, so bear with me: Friedrich Kurz founded Stella and was its first CEO (initially the flyers and posters would say "Friedrich Kurz presents...", then later "Stella presents..."). His fatal mistake was to find a partner in the early 90s, Rolf Deyhle, to build the oversized stupid "SI Centrum" in Stuttgart which opened with Miss Saigon in 1994 and had a second theatre added a few years later. Deyhle elbowed Kurz out of his own company and Kurz tried again with a German version of "Return to the Forbidden Planet" in Berlin, but that was a massive flop and he disappeared from sight. Deyhle was not a "theatre man" though, he was only interested in money and sunk the entire Stella fortune into real estate speculation - which eventually caused Stella to go bust and the theatres to be sold. Meanwhile across the border... the Netherlands had a similar development to Germany. Here it was Joop van den Ende, who had made his fortune with TV productions (his company Endemol gave the world gems like Big Brother) and who was - like Kurz - a private musical lover. He brought Les Miserables, Phantom and many other productions to the Netherlands in the 90s and turned them into huge successes. And just like Kurz created Stella, Van den Ende created Stage Entertainment in the Netherlands. Stage Entertainment had dipped its foot into the German market before by taking over "Buddy" in Hamburg and of course had a field day when Stella went bust, buying almost all theatres (except, ironically, Starlight Express) and launched their first proper German production "Elisabeth" in Essen's Colosseum Theatre in 2001. Enter a new name: Maik Klokow. He had begun as a technician for Stella (at Starlight Express no less) and worked his way to the top in management positions. When Stage Entertainment moved into the German market after buying Stella's theatres, Joop van den Ende put Klokow in charge of the German branch of the company. In my opinion he did a very good job, bringing both international productions in and developing new German productions. But somehow (don't ask me) things between Klokow and Van den Ende soured and Klokow eventually departed to found his own production company "Mehr!" and produced his own shows. Yet ANOTHER player in Germany was Michael Brenner, who founded BB Promotion in the 80s and mainly brought (and brings) international tours (as well as concerts and dance productions) to Germany. BB Promotion and Mehr! often work together (one has the shows, the other the theatres). Interestingly Mehr! was bought by ATG last year which I think explains how and why UK Tours such as Billy Elliot, Cats and soon Miss Saigon turn up in Germany (and I personally hope that they will keep bringing many more over). I'm not really sure how the whole ATG/Mehr!/BB Promotion thing hangs together, but they are basically one side and Stage Entertainment is the other side - although they seem to be working together sometimes now, with Mehr!'s "Bodyguard" moving from their theatre in Cologne to Stage Entertainment's theatre in Stuttgart and Stage Entertainment's grotty Tanz der Vampire clogging up the Musical Dome here for half a year. As for who's cheaper... I think both producers are about the same level quality-wise. The problem is that Stage Entertainment is far more expensive. They try to flog their shows as some sort of super premium experience but the quality is just not premium. They reduced orchestras greatly over the years, so most shows sound terrible now (although i found that a problem at Starlight Express too and am looking forward to hear the re-orchestrated new sound) and the quality of their performers is "just-so". Too often you don't understand a single blessed word because once again they hired foreign performers who can't speak German and just sing "parrot-fashion" and more often than not you don't even see the first casts but some unknown understudies who often don't have the vocal chops for the part or are far too young. So I'm just not willing to pay the equivalent of £100-140 for a tinny cheap-sounding orchestra and unknown performers who can't sing in German and/or can't handle the score. And before I'm accused of bashing understudies: I know that some are great and just as good or even better than the first casts, but it's not often the case here. And more importantly, I, as a customer, feel treated like crap when there's never any clear information who's on when. I rarely ever see German productions these days, but I made a valiant attempt a while ago when I could hitch a free ride to Hamburg and caught "Rocky". Naturally I was keen on seeing the leading man, Drew Sarich, an American who's made a great name for himself both in the German-speaking region and on Broadway. Was he there? Nope, of course not. Nor was the first cast Adrian (and the understudy was terrible). So you open the programme, see the leads and their long list of credits featured big on the first pages, then realize you see none of them. And this is not a one-off, this is pretty much par for the course. When they announced "Love never dies" with Gardar Thor Cortes, I was mildly interested in seeing him, but since I knew there was such a huge risk to not see him, I never bothered. So... by comparison, when I go to London, I get to see shows for far better prices (even when paying full prices, not to mention opportunities like dayseats), better-sounding orchestras and almost always the full first casts. Sure I had bummers too, like when I booked 42nd Street for Ashley Day and he decided to take that weekend off, but it's a rare exception, not the rule (and -when- you get an understudy in London, you can be sure you get quality, after all I had first seen Mr Day himself when he understudied Elder Price in Book of Mormon and started keeping tabs on him). So I guess by "cheap" I mostly mean that you don't get value for money here, if you weigh the crazy prices against what you see on stage. Now take "Bat out of Hell" for example, where I've kept booking the front row in London for £55 (now £45 apparently), whereas the front row in Oberhausen will cost twice as much. Casting is not yet known (I fear the worst) and of course the whole production died for me the moment I heard it will be performed in German. MEAT LOAF'S LEGENDARY HITS TRANSLATED INTO GERMAN. Now even if they found a massively talented young leading man / leading lady (not that I expect them to) and I would be curious to see them and compare them to their London counter parts, I could never be sure to actually see them. So why pay €120 to see this show done in German and with some foreign understudies in the lead who can't even sing in German, when I can see the fabulous London cast singing the original rock classics for half the price? Okay, done ranting, I apologize for derailing this Starlight Express (fnarr) and will shut up now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 17:20:29 GMT
Thanks so much for writing all that Viserys - must have taken ages! Really enjoyable read, love hearing about all this kind of stuff and is fascinating to hear about the driving forces behind the German musical scene.
I love the optimism they had in the 80s/90s that they actually built new theatres for productions like Starlight and Miss Saigon (and was Sunset Boulevard the same?)
So I agree, I used to find Starlight expensive but am gobsmacked how expensive other shows are in Germany. I saw Love Never Dies a couple of times and was extortionate. Twice West End prices; more like Broadway really. Are regular Germans happy to pay these prices? Is it a once a year event?
I also find the swing/understudy structure quite different there as you mention. Completely normal at Starlight to have 50% ish non 1st cast (doesn't bother me at all as they are all so good!). Not sure why this is though. Do they get more booked holiday? It it to do with frequent injuries? Does mean a huge company where 50% of them are swings and must cost a bit. Surprised (but pleased!) this has not been addressed in a cost cutting exercise.
But yes, is annoying if you are booking to see a specific cast member. Basically you can't really do that in Germany. I never saw Gardar at LND!
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Post by Raven on Jul 4, 2018 19:06:39 GMT
Thanks so much for writing all that Viserys - must have taken ages! Really enjoyable read, love hearing about all this kind of stuff and is fascinating to hear about the driving forces behind the German musical scene. I love the optimism they had in the 80s/90s that they actually built new theatres for productions like Starlight and Miss Saigon (and was Sunset Boulevard the same?) So I agree, I used to find Starlight expensive but am gobsmacked how expensive other shows are in Germany. I saw Love Never Dies a couple of times and was extortionate. Twice West End prices; more like Broadway really. Are regular Germans happy to pay these prices? Is it a once a year event? I also find the swing/understudy structure quite different there as you mention. Completely normal at Starlight to have 50% ish non 1st cast (doesn't bother me at all as they are all so good!). Not sure why this is though. Do they get more booked holiday? It it to do with frequent injuries? Does mean a huge company where 50% of them are swings and must cost a bit. Surprised (but pleased!) this has not been addressed in a cost cutting exercise. But yes, is annoying if you are booking to see a specific cast member. Basically you can't really do that in Germany. I never saw Gardar at LND! I'm glad you have asked this question, as it's something I'm curious about too with Starlight! How do they chose which swing goes on when and for whom?
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