11 posts
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Post by rmechanical on Apr 20, 2024 3:36:13 GMT
I saw this last week from the front row of the dress circle , which afforded a picture book view. The lighting, sound, staging and choreography were as superb as others have said so full marks to them Rosie Sheehy provided the human element in this expressionistic nightmare with a bravura performance. As you can tell I was very impressed with it as a piece of theatre but just failed to connect with it on an emotional level. Perhaps if my view had been the front row of the stalls my reaction would have been different
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Post by theoracle on Apr 20, 2024 12:28:44 GMT
Agreed Rosie Sheehy is a force to be reckoned with in this - she is up there with Patsy Ferran / Lydia Wilson etc. Absolutely breathtaking to watch. The play itself isn't the easiest to follow I would say but the performances are so powerful, you can't not be gripped. I agree it fits a little oddly in the Old Vic and doesn't scale up from the Ustinov Studio but I was quite close to the stage so didn't mind. Definitely one of the best things I've seen this year
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Post by aspieandy on Apr 20, 2024 17:05:46 GMT
This is a magnificent depiction of an unknown condition that subsequently became known as high functioning autism. Sophie Treadwell must have worked incredibly hard to try and understand – in a time when it had no name, no medical treatments, no understanding; a choice between straight up mental asylum (probably with EST) or social oddball (an ostracised, mistreated, outsider). Or for those who saw no other way, death. It’s fascinating and gripping watching Treadwell, who has obviously spent considerable time reflecting on an alien landscape, feel her way emotionally into the world she had observed (she must have been quite some individual herself; playright amd journalist in the 1920s in NYC, suffragist, struggling with mental health, part-Mexican).
And she gets a lot right, very right at times. Sometimes not, but for someone flying in the dark, it’s heroic work. The quiet but growing desperation of a young woman who can’t understand herself (esp. her emotional dissonance), or the world judging her, is compelling and captivating. She is utterly lost in this world with not the first clue as to why or what.
The tragedy here is the choice of so many throughout history; between the prison of a life alone or the prison of a sham marriage.
As a society, we also didn’t have a clue about this until the 1990s, and the beginnings of an understanding not much more that 15 or so years ago (mass MRI helped a lot). Blew me away this afternoon : 1928 for goodness sake! Well played Rosie Sheehy. Bingo update: this is the second tick on my 2024 asperger's bingo card after Dr Astrov at The Orange Tree. Could be a belter.
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2,779 posts
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Post by ceebee on Apr 20, 2024 22:51:13 GMT
Saw this again this evening with my 13 / 15 yr old daughters. It moved me as much tonight as it did before. On the train home my eldest couldn't stop talking about it, analysing the contrast between then and now, and how the societal 'machine' hasn't changed much in a hundred years. Proud that both my girls took so much from a play that isn't the easiest to follow.
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Post by alessia on Apr 23, 2024 10:44:46 GMT
There is nothing I can add to all the extremely articulate comments already made about this, just that I was very impressed with the set design (amazing) and by Rosie Sheehy- and in general. I had not seen any previous production and didn't know what the story was about until I read the programme's article. It's astonishing that this was written in 1928! I can see how some people might not like this, it is not a naturalistic dialogue - for lack of a better destription...but it's not meant to be, it's supposed to be representing how people are stuck in routines and repetitions- and how this young woman struggles with it all. It did take me a few minutes to understand what the play was trying to say, and to appreciate Rosie's acting (which for a bit I found OTT, until I realised what she was doing). Others have already remarked on Rosie's performance- she is incredible and so intense that even the other actors are looking at her in awe at the end. I've already recommended to some friends.
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Post by thistimetomorrow on Apr 24, 2024 22:48:39 GMT
Possibly a slightly niche reference, but this direction really reminded me of Mountview's 9 to 5 from last year. Anyway, I enjoyed this a lot. Rosie Sheehy is an absolute powerhouse.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Apr 26, 2024 7:34:15 GMT
I thought this was incredible, totally recommend.
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Post by lt on Apr 26, 2024 14:17:44 GMT
I thought this was incredible, totally recommend. Wasn't going to go to this, as I have been to a lot of theatre lately, but all the rave reviews have tempted me, so I've booked tickets!
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Post by ceebee on Apr 26, 2024 17:47:52 GMT
I thought this was incredible, totally recommend. Wasn't going to go to this, as I have been to a lot of theatre lately, but all the rave reviews have tempted me, so I've booked tickets! I don't think you'll regret it.
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Post by lt on Apr 27, 2024 9:03:14 GMT
Wasn't going to go to this, as I have been to a lot of theatre lately, but all the rave reviews have tempted me, so I've booked tickets! I don't think you'll regret it. I'll let you know! But looking forward to it...
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Post by keyspi on Apr 27, 2024 21:00:55 GMT
I thought this was incredible, totally recommend. Wasn't going to go to this, as I have been to a lot of theatre lately, but all the rave reviews have tempted me, so I've booked tickets! I've just left tonight's performance and I can only echo what the others have already said - totally worth seeing!
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Post by David J on Apr 28, 2024 0:23:18 GMT
Afraid this didn't do much for me.
I went on the praise on this forum and like A Number I feel I've seen a different production.
Started off well. It was the expressionist show I was expecting showing the relentless claustrophobia of the machine the central character feel trapped in. Felt slick, well choreographed, and good use of sound.
Then after the office scene the production fell off. I'm not sure Richard Jones knew what he wanted this production to be. Did he want to play the scenes expressionistically or straight? Granted I was glad it took a step back from the office scene routine before it got monotonous. But after that the production barely reached the heights of the beginning.
There were moments that reminded me of the start, particularly the speakeasy scene. But there were times were it was difficult to understand what Jones was conveying. Like in the hospital scene I was trying to work out with the drilling man appearing whether we were seeing years passing and the main character having multiple children.
The other highlight was the scene between the main character and her lover. Beautifully done with the lighting and the two involved.
Otherwise the direction felt pedestrian and the acting was varied to say the least. Even Rosie Sheehy, who I enjoyed in Oleanna, was laying on the accent a bit thick I felt.
The other problem I have is the play itself and the scenes. They jump ahead in time to the next thing and feels jarring catching up with where the character is. Like one moment the main character has a child and the next she's being taken to a speakeasy. What happened in between? May have been an opportunity for Jones to choreograph a sequence in which we see that. And consequently I felt the energy drop each time a scene started.
As a result I didn't care at all for the main character's plight
An average 3 stars. Had moments but the rest felt pedestrian and unfocused.
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Post by aspieandy on Apr 28, 2024 9:42:59 GMT
But there were times were it was difficult to understand what Jones was conveying. Like in the hospital scene I was trying to work out with the drilling man appearing whether we were seeing years passing and the main character having multiple children. You don’t ask for opinions so I will add a view in case it assists anyone else. Both seem possible or not important. Also, the scene might serve as a metaphor for her life; people constantly telling her what she should do, what is normal, what is correct behaviour (taking the hospital scene literally, for her to bond with the new born). But she cannot do what society expects, and sometimes demands. She cannot comprehend the urgings, her brains is wired differently. She is not capable of the bonding. When the crescendos of criticism come, she hears only a wall of intrusive, hostile noise. She doesn’t hear individual voices. She quickly feels the need to flee - because she knows from long experience that judgement is quickly followed by condemnation and, often times, bullying. Others don't understand she has only one way of being, and she doesn't understand why they don't understand (and won't, she is a century too early for meaningful diagnosis). Imo, the scene is an interesting doorway into the world of autism written by an empathetic person who doesn’t know she is describing autism but appears to be unusually intuitive.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 28, 2024 12:55:10 GMT
But there were times were it was difficult to understand what Jones was conveying. Like in the hospital scene I was trying to work out with the drilling man appearing whether we were seeing years passing and the main character having multiple children. You don’t ask for opinions so I will add a view in case it assists anyone else. Both seem possible or not important. Also, the scene might serve as a metaphor for her life; people constantly telling her what she should do, what is normal, what is correct behaviour (taking the hospital scene literally, for her to bond with the new born). But she cannot do what society expects, and sometimes demands. She cannot comprehend the urgings, her brains is wired differently. She is not capable of the bonding. When the crescendos of criticism come, she hears only a wall of intrusive, hostile noise. She doesn’t hear individual voices. She quickly feels the need to flee - because she knows from long experience that judgement is quickly followed by condemnation and, often times, bullying. Others don't understand she has only one way of being, and she doesn't understand why they don't understand (and won't, she is a century too early for meaningful diagnosis). Imo, the scene is an interesting doorway into the world of autism written by an empathetic person who doesn’t know she is describing autism but appears to be unusually intuitive. Just to add that I feel that the empathy extends to the superb direction which I felt left gaps and omitted storytelling deliberately, as another insight into the world of autism.
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Post by blamerobots on Apr 28, 2024 15:05:34 GMT
But there were times were it was difficult to understand what Jones was conveying. Like in the hospital scene I was trying to work out with the drilling man appearing whether we were seeing years passing and the main character having multiple children. You don’t ask for opinions so I will add a view in case it assists anyone else. Both seem possible or not important. Also, the scene might serve as a metaphor for her life; people constantly telling her what she should do, what is normal, what is correct behaviour (taking the hospital scene literally, for her to bond with the new born). But she cannot do what society expects, and sometimes demands. She cannot comprehend the urgings, her brains is wired differently. She is not capable of the bonding. When the crescendos of criticism come, she hears only a wall of intrusive, hostile noise. She doesn’t hear individual voices. She quickly feels the need to flee - because she knows from long experience that judgement is quickly followed by condemnation and, often times, bullying. Others don't understand she has only one way of being, and she doesn't understand why they don't understand (and won't, she is a century too early for meaningful diagnosis). Imo, the scene is an interesting doorway into the world of autism written by an empathetic person who doesn’t know she is describing autism but appears to be unusually intuitive. My earlier review was sort of dancing around the word "autism" for my own, scared, personal reasons, but it's what I meant and wanted to talk about, and I'm glad you brought it up because I was frankly too afraid to.
I've seen Machinal twice before this, and both of those productions definitely leaned fully into the expressionistic machinery that seems to be the go-to way to stage this play, looking at different university productions.
I've digested this production now and I wish I wasn't too hasty with voting and giving it such a mixed rating; it definitely sits at a solid 4.5 stars now because I think the reading of autism was what I was failing to "face" mostly because of my own life experience with it. It makes complete sense to me now, all of the oddities I thought I saw because I was viewing it not as myself, but as the "normal" that is expected of me.
It hit me only days later that maybe I'm still in the machine this production is trying to tell me about.
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Post by aspieandy on Apr 28, 2024 16:21:44 GMT
My earlier review was sort of dancing around the word "autism" for my own, scared, personal reasons, but it's what I meant and wanted to talk about, and I'm glad you brought it up because I was frankly too afraid to.
I've seen Machinal twice before this, and both of those productions definitely leaned fully into the expressionistic machinery that seems to be the go-to way to stage this play, looking at different university productions.
I've digested this production now and I wish I wasn't too hasty with voting and giving it such a mixed rating; it definitely sits at a solid 4.5 stars now because I think the reading of autism was what I was failing to "face" mostly because of my own life experience with it. It makes complete sense to me now, all of the oddities I thought I saw because I was viewing it not as myself, but as the "normal" that is expected of me.
It hit me only days later that maybe I'm still in the machine this production is trying to tell me about.
It's so fascinating. It's not even that it's 'hiding in plain sight' (it isn't hiding) but that, even when you are aware of what 'high functioning' is in practice, you still don't necessarily see it. An example of this is Dr Tony Attwood - world renowned in the field (much in evidence on youtube). He was watching vidoes of his son as a child one evening with his wife and all of a sudden he saw it. His son was 30 then with a life of school/social exclusion, drink/drug abuse and jail behind him. No one saw it including his expert father. Perfectly reasonable that people don't pick it up even in this superb telling. I understand things are better is schools now as staff are trained to look for specific traits; catchng them early is key (before they begin masking).
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Post by kate8 on Apr 28, 2024 19:31:51 GMT
I’m also autistic and agree this really seems to depict autism, especially the feeling of sensory overload, e.g. with the young woman’s reaction to the crowded train, and the drill depicting all the sensory stuff around hospital/birth/babies. She just made sense to me from an autistic perspective. I haven’t read the play, so am wondering if this is in the writing or a particular interpretation of the character. It’s surprising that autism hasn’t been mentioned in any of the press reviews or publicity I’ve read.
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Post by blamerobots on Apr 28, 2024 20:11:28 GMT
I’m also autistic and agree this really seems to depict autism, especially the feeling of sensory overload, e.g. with the young woman’s reaction to the crowded train, and the drill depicting all the sensory stuff around hospital/birth/babies. She just made sense to me from an autistic perspective. I haven’t read the play, so am wondering if this is in the writing or a particular interpretation of the character. It’s surprising that autism hasn’t been mentioned in any of the press reviews or publicity I’ve read. It seems ingrained in the original text to me now I've seen this production; it really does seem like Treadwell was trying to depict something that was wordless at the time and also the oppression of women who lie outside the societal norm. Unfortunately, I think because it's one of the major studied works at drama schools and because of the rigidity of the education system and, simply put, its unfeeling attitude towards those who are neurodivergent and cannot conform to their standards of answers, alternate but valid readings like this simply don't get talked about, which leads to a lot of directors doing it fairly "by the study book" as what I like to call it. I'm at a show right now but I'll share more thoughts in a bit..!
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Post by edi on Apr 28, 2024 20:54:36 GMT
Interesting all this talk about autism, because I am not remotely, yet I could totally identify with the character. My reaction to public transport is almost identical, I have got off buses over the years...
I thought that her "reactions " were the normal reaction of anyone who is forced into situations, obviously it was artistically presented in the play.
Also obvious that the final reaction wasn't normal
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Post by David J on Apr 29, 2024 8:40:22 GMT
The autism aspect is an interesting interpretation. As someone on the high-end of the spectrum and has participated with a theatre company that works with autistic people on all levels, I can certainly see characteristics. Just like I've seen characteristics in characters in other productions like Sam Tutty's character in 'Two Strangers' recently
Certainly the audio-overload affecting the woman with the drilling can be a sign. But I also saw the man holding the drill and his shadow over the woman looked very phallic, so to say, and given what was going on it was easy for me to think I'm watching her conceiving, reluctantly, multiple children over the years. It was only by the end of that scene when I realised that this was all happening after the birth of the first scene.
I also interpreted the way she was on the bed but the doctors were talking to the space next to her as a sign that she was not with it, especially in my interpretation from conceiving so many children from a man she doesn't love, and in her own world. But that could also be a sign of autism. My friend who saw with me however did not understand what it was meant to mean.
So that is why I think Richard Jones' direction was inconsistent. Started off strong at the start with it's depiction of this woman, autistic or not, overwhelmed in a world that is increasingly robotic and mechanised with the rapid development of technology and the rise of office work in the early 20th century, as people become holistically disconnected. A tell-tale sign of what the world is today.
But after that it lacked the clarity and finesse. Only the scene in the dark worked for me. Beautifully staged.
If the main drive of Richard Jones' production was portraying autism at a time when it wasn't known, I feel he should have done more. Partly its the problem with the script with the way it jumps ahead between scenes that prevents further understanding of the character. Like a good 5-6 years goes by between the birth and the speakeasy scenes, as I could tell when they said the age of the child in the trial scene. We could be finding out how the woman is coping as a mother in a loveless marriage, especially from an autism angle. It might have been an opportunity for Jones to do a sequence like the beginning or the honeymoon when the woman and husband arrive at the hotel when a party is on. Why exactly did the woman come along to a speakeasy in the first place?
It's great that people are discussing different themes and it's certainly brought my attention what was in the production. But in the end me and my friend and felt the autism angle was just a supporting theme and that this production was inconsistent what it was trying to achieve.
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Post by aspieandy on Apr 29, 2024 11:42:58 GMT
Perhaps interestingly, a similar treatment was recently given to Professor Higgins in Pygmalion, also produced at the Old Vic.
He was more obsessive/compulsive, though he was isolated, mocked, then ostracised. Again, no mention of a mental difference.
Of course, part of the reason we enjoy theatre is to join up the dots, though it obviously helps if the dots are visible enough for most to observe. That is a very interesting balance to strike.
I think twice at the same venue in recent times is quite a coincidence.
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Post by gcbf on Apr 29, 2024 13:09:47 GMT
I have seen this twice now (once second row once in the dress circle) and loved it both times. Sitting second row was obviously superior for the sense of full immersion and a feeling of being caught within the madness and desperation, but the circle gave quite a different, much more observational perspective (which also made me feel complicit in some ways). Lighting and sound as others have said were very good. Rosie Sheehy outstanding.
The notes about autism in this thread are very good, and I wonder whether it's also a reflection of the changing place of women since the 1920s - many of those strong norms for women no longer exist but strong neurotypical norms still do, so the feeling the play elicits (at least for me) about slowly being crushed in an unending dispassionate machine are more commonly felt now in autistic people than in women. Certainly I'm not autistic but still felt it. I do agree that that interpretation wasn't intentional from Richard Jones but comes through in the original play.
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Post by pochard on May 1, 2024 12:20:00 GMT
I have been tempted by this following a mailout with a code half price tickets, but has anyone booked & managed to get the code to work?
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Post by ceebee on May 1, 2024 13:02:18 GMT
I have been tempted by this following a mailout with a code half price tickets, but has anyone booked & managed to get the code to work? The code should unlock an offer price in the price options after Adult / Under 16's.
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Post by pochard on May 1, 2024 14:38:12 GMT
I have been tempted by this following a mailout with a code half price tickets, but has anyone booked & managed to get the code to work? The code should unlock an offer price in the price options after Adult / Under 16's. You're quite right! It was in such small font on the calendar page that I didn't notice it. Thank you :-)
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Post by meister on May 1, 2024 16:30:41 GMT
Any ideas what the code might be?
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Post by TallPaul on May 1, 2024 16:45:25 GMT
Any ideas what the code might be? Flash50 Sale ends 12 noon, Fri 03 May. Offer valid on performances 01–18 May.
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