|
|
Post by marob on Jan 18, 2023 22:48:13 GMT
Even though it’s on another continent it’s still got cack-handed publicity. First a weird series of posts trying to make it look like the cast are getting ‘papped.’ (They aren’t.) And now there’s a short reel on Instagram of ALW with various members of the cast gathering round him. The song playing over it is Popular. There’s either an amazing lack of self-awareness or someone in his media team is low-key taking the piss. But we’ll see how popular he is when it opens next month, especially if just one bad review made him have a meltdown last time. Finding the whole thing grimly fascinating. I'm sure he would be in on that joke, and may have even thought of it, he's not stupid. He hasn't been popular over the last few months so it's clearly an ironic gesture. Why else would a non-ALW show tune be played over the clip? However, it also works as publicity for the show so it hits on a number of levels. If the show fails in New York will you feel happy? Sorry, long post. Anyone other than Oliver please skip. Here’s the thing… I actually quite enjoyed the show when I saw it. It’s hardly a classic, but it kept me entertained for a couple of hours. The closure coincided with a trip I had booked to London, and as I’d never been to a final performance I went to see it a second time, which I rarely ever do (especially with so many shows to see in London and so few slots to fill.) I think the performances I saw were about 8 or 9 months apart, and despite the changes reportedly made during the various closures I don’t think there was anything substantially different. The show seemed to have changed quite a lot between The Other Palace and the Gillian Lynne, but here there seemed to be just minor tinkering with things like the bird or the statue. They need to drop the idea that it’s suitable for kids; it isn’t. I think if it was more overtly comedic and ‘adult’ in tone it would be better for it. I listened to the album a handful of times on Spotify. Bizarrely this was enough for the year end summary they do to proclaim that I was one of the top ALW fans in the world, which suggests he’s nowhere near as popular as he once was. I don’t want to rehash the various backstage shenanigans, but obviously having a picket line outside your theatre is not a good look (and that went quiet very quickly, so presumably they were successful.) And while I despise this government I don’t think the closure of Cinderella can be blamed on them. Or the cast, who are ultimately just performing what they’ve been given. (“If it ain’t on the page…”) And this is hardly the first show he’s had behind the scenes issues with. I don’t take much notice of Broadway as I’m unlikely ever to go there. I may be wrong, but from what I’ve read on here they seem to be more transparent (i.e. publishing grosses) and are consequently more cut-throat with shows that may not be selling as well as expected. I’d like the show to do well. I’d love to hear the score with a decent sized band. If it came back here in a few years in a new production I’d quite happily book to see it again. I don’t want it to fail. I just expect that it will. And it will probably be someone else’s fault when it does… ——————— Anyway… I may have moaned about the publicity, but I think the post promoting Prince Sebastian’s autobiography ‘Spare’ is quite funny. |
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Jan 18, 2023 23:42:09 GMT
I'm sure he would be in on that joke, and may have even thought of it, he's not stupid. He hasn't been popular over the last few months so it's clearly an ironic gesture. Why else would a non-ALW show tune be played over the clip? However, it also works as publicity for the show so it hits on a number of levels. If the show fails in New York will you feel happy? Sorry, long post. Anyone other than Oliver please skip. Here’s the thing… I actually quite enjoyed the show when I saw it. It’s hardly a classic, but it kept me entertained for a couple of hours. The closure coincided with a trip I had booked to London, and as I’d never been to a final performance I went to see it a second time, which I rarely ever do (especially with so many shows to see in London and so few slots to fill.) I think the performances I saw were about 8 or 9 months apart, and despite the changes reportedly made during the various closures I don’t think there was anything substantially different. The show seemed to have changed quite a lot between The Other Palace and the Gillian Lynne, but here there seemed to be just minor tinkering with things like the bird or the statue. They need to drop the idea that it’s suitable for kids; it isn’t. I think if it was more overtly comedic and ‘adult’ in tone it would be better for it. I listened to the album a handful of times on Spotify. Bizarrely this was enough for the year end summary they do to proclaim that I was one of the top ALW fans in the world, which suggests he’s nowhere near as popular as he once was. I don’t want to rehash the various backstage shenanigans, but obviously having a picket line outside your theatre is not a good look (and that went quiet very quickly, so presumably they were successful.) And while I despise this government I don’t think the closure of Cinderella can be blamed on them. Or the cast, who are ultimately just performing what they’ve been given. (“If it ain’t on the page…”) And this is hardly the first show he’s had behind the scenes issues with. I don’t take much notice of Broadway as I’m unlikely ever to go there. I may be wrong, but from what I’ve read on here they seem to be more transparent (i.e. publishing grosses) and are consequently more cut-throat with shows that may not be selling as well as expected. I’d like the show to do well. I’d love to hear the score with a decent sized band. If it came back here in a few years in a new production I’d quite happily book to see it again. I don’t want it to fail. I just expect that it will. And it will probably be someone else’s fault when it does… ——————— Anyway… I may have moaned about the publicity, but I think the post promoting Prince Sebastian’s autobiography ‘Spare’ is quite funny. Thank you for your reply. I agree with you that it probably won't do well on Broadway, at least not without an extensive rewrite. For me, it's not the music that's the problem, I love the score, not suggesting it's equal to his best work, but a joy nevertheless. In the cold light of day, however, I am prepared to accept that while I enjoyed the experience of watching it in the West End, the musical just doesn't work on stage when looked at from a more objective standpoint, and the fault for this, in my opinion, lies with the book; Emerald Fennel's half-baked plot, and the director most likely. This is not to excuse ALW as he is also to blame for not choosing better collaborators (a consistent problem wtih him), and for thinking that this particular take on Cinderella would work. I want it to do well on Broadway only because I love the score and lyrics (not every song). However, if I didn't like that either, I would want it to fail on Broadway because I would think success isn't deserved, which is why I was asking this question. He must have reasons for thinking it has a good chance of success though, otherwise he would be worried, surely? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 2:11:54 GMT
What will succeed on Broadway right now is a bit of an open question as the old "rules" don't seem to apply as much post-pandemic. Several shows people thought would be surefire hits have fizzled quite quickly.
Ticket prices are high and discounts are less frequent and less generous.
Quite a few posts over at BroadwayWorld have their fangs out for Bad Cinderella though based on the comments in its thread there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Jan 19, 2023 10:23:23 GMT
What will succeed on Broadway right now is a bit of an open question as the old "rules" don't seem to apply as much post-pandemic. Several shows people thought would be surefire hits have fizzled quite quickly. Ticket prices are high and discounts are less frequent and less generous. Quite a few posts over at BroadwayWorld have their fangs out for Bad Cinderella though based on the comments in its thread there. Yes, unfortunately the internet can destroy musicals. The success of a musical depends not on the reviews but on word of mouth.That has always been the case but what's changed is the way this negativity can be spread before the event, and its enormous reach. I haven't seen the Broadway World forum but what you describe is indeed an indicator that Bad Cinderella won't succeed on Broadway. This will do far more damage than any review. If people are determined to make a show fail, they now have the power to do so. That's exactly what happened with the wonderful Cats (2019) movie. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 13:20:42 GMT
I'm with you in spirit about the power of the Internet, but the BroadwayWorld Forum is unlikely to kill a show.
It would take negative social media on Facebook, TikTok, and perhaps still Twitter so that the criticism reaches and potentially influences a much more mainstream audience.
I don't have much interest in Bad Cinderella so I'm not aware if critical chatter about the Broadway production is currently on those platforms. Time will tell I guess once previews begin.
|
|
|
|
Post by fiyerorocher on Jan 19, 2023 13:45:12 GMT
People are not sharing their opinions on a show because they want to see it fail. They're sharing them because those are their valid opinions and this is a discussion forum. If a show gets lots of negative reviews, it's not because the site, or any site, is actively trying to bring it down. It just deserves lots of bad reviews. The people sharing their opinions aren't to blame for that - the creators of the show are. If Cinderella tanks on Broadway because of negative audience opinion, it's because it earned it, not because people were honest about what they saw.
|
|
1,483 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Jan 19, 2023 13:50:35 GMT
I don’t buy into social media killing a show. Bad shows kill themselves. How people find out it’s a bad show is irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
Post by cezbear on Jan 19, 2023 13:56:18 GMT
People are not sharing their opinions on a show because they want to see it fail. They're sharing them because those are their valid opinions and this is a discussion forum. If a show gets lots of negative reviews, it's not because the site, or any site, is actively trying to bring it down. It just deserves lots of bad reviews. The people sharing their opinions aren't to blame for that - the creators of the show are. If Cinderella tanks on Broadway because of negative audience opinion, it's because it earned it, not because people were honest about what they saw. I don't know that I totally agree with that. I don't read the BroadwayWorld forums but I can't imagine everyone there has actually seen the show before sharing negative opinions. Now perhaps negative opinions based on the way the show was handled in London are justified, I don't know. Probably. But there's a bit of a herd mentality that starts up and I absolutely do believe some people being negative online want it to fail without ever having seen it. Or any intention of seeing it.
I suspect it will fail for a good number of reasons but I wouldn't discount the overwhelmingly negative impression people have before it even begins. A little humility from ALW might have helped dampen some of that but we'll file that under 'Extremely Unlikely - Impossible'.
|
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Jan 19, 2023 14:09:19 GMT
People are not sharing their opinions on a show because they want to see it fail. They're sharing them because those are their valid opinions and this is a discussion forum. If a show gets lots of negative reviews, it's not because the site, or any site, is actively trying to bring it down. It just deserves lots of bad reviews. The people sharing their opinions aren't to blame for that - the creators of the show are. If Cinderella tanks on Broadway because of negative audience opinion, it's because it earned it, not because people were honest about what they saw. I don't know that I totally agree with that. I don't read the BroadwayWorld forums but I can't imagine everyone there has actually seen the show before sharing negative opinions. Now perhaps negative opinions based on the way the show was handled in London are justified, I don't know. Probably. But there's a bit of a herd mentality that starts up and I absolutely do believe some people being negative online want it to fail without ever having seen it. Or any intention of seeing it.
I suspect it will fail for a good number of reasons but I wouldn't discount the overwhelmingly negative impression people have before it even begins. A little humility from ALW might have helped dampen some of that but we'll file that under 'Extremely Unlikely - Impossible'.
Exactly. And that herd mentality was fully apparent before the Cats (2019) movie had been released. |
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Jan 19, 2023 14:22:04 GMT
I don’t buy into social media killing a show. Bad shows kill themselves. How people find out it’s a bad show is irrelevant. That would imply that a show is bad unless it's commercially successful, do you hold to that view? edit: misinterpreted your post, sorry. |
|
1,483 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Jan 19, 2023 14:39:07 GMT
I don’t buy into social media killing a show. Bad shows kill themselves. How people find out it’s a bad show is irrelevant. That would imply that a show is bad unless it's commercially successful, do you hold to that view? edit: misinterpreted your post, sorry. Yeah, I mean a bad show will close however people discover it’s bad. A good show can also close because it’s not successful, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t good. All Blackbirds are black birds, but not all black birds are Blackbirds. |
|
|
|
Post by fiyerorocher on Jan 19, 2023 15:05:06 GMT
People not seeing a show because of bad reviews is just a natural progression of a show being bad. If someone had warned me about Hex, I would not have seen it. So if people are saying 'I didn't see Cinderella because I heard X, Y or Z about it', I don't think there's anything wrong with passing on a warning not to waste your money. There might be a few people out there who are actively malicious in their online comments, but I think most people are just echoing the consensus and sharing what they've heard and honestly I don't see much of a problem with that. If a show is bad and not worth seeing, people deserve to hear that before they waste money on a ticket!
|
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Jan 19, 2023 17:46:22 GMT
People not seeing a show because of bad reviews is just a natural progression of a show being bad. If someone had warned me about Hex, I would not have seen it. So if people are saying 'I didn't see Cinderella because I heard X, Y or Z about it', I don't think there's anything wrong with passing on a warning not to waste your money. There might be a few people out there who are actively malicious in their online comments, but I think most people are just echoing the consensus and sharing what they've heard and honestly I don't see much of a problem with that. If a show is bad and not worth seeing, people deserve to hear that before they waste money on a ticket! I often disagree with the critics, especially when it comes to musicals. I like to make up my own mind. |
|
271 posts
|
Post by gmoneyoutlaw on Jan 19, 2023 18:36:13 GMT
People not seeing a show because of bad reviews is just a natural progression of a show being bad. If someone had warned me about Hex, I would not have seen it. So if people are saying 'I didn't see Cinderella because I heard X, Y or Z about it', I don't think there's anything wrong with passing on a warning not to waste your money. There might be a few people out there who are actively malicious in their online comments, but I think most people are just echoing the consensus and sharing what they've heard and honestly I don't see much of a problem with that. If a show is bad and not worth seeing, people deserve to hear that before they waste money on a ticket! I often disagree with the critics, especially when it comes to musicals. I like to make up my own mind. I saw Cinderella and it was the "what is this" for me, and my two friends. I enjoyed it and the price I paid was about on par with the quality of the experience. It really is a mess in construction and if I had multiple viewings I could give more specific details. For £25 it was worth a visit. At Broadway prices the cast does not have a box-office draw, unless there are substantial changes in the libretto and score, it will not sell enough at the Imperial to survive. |
|
|
|
Post by fiyerorocher on Jan 19, 2023 22:18:15 GMT
No one is telling you you can't make up your own opinions - many of my favourite shows are far from critical successes. But you can make a decision to still see a show even knowing it's book has more holes in it than swiss cheese. That's just factual information that can help people make up their minds to book tickets or not. If you see one show a year, it's helpful to know these things.
|
|
914 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Jan 20, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
Forums like BroadwayWorld and this one are of little interest to the vast majority of theatre customers, never mind the wider population. Most people have never even heard of them. I'm genuinely interested in theatre, and tend to follow what's going on, but the obsession with the minutiae of individual shows and careers is extremely niche and of no consequence in the real world. It's often highly entertaining and amusing don't get me wrong, but the idea that they can influence whether a show is successful or not is frankly laughable.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobbievanhusen on Jan 20, 2023 16:29:57 GMT
I think the marketing and social media of Bad Cinderella on Broadway is hilarious. It might not be everyones cupnof tea but its doing something different and having fun with it. It's not dissimilar to the fun that Diana the musical had online, not taking itself too seriously and getting people talking about it, good or bad.
|
|
641 posts
|
Post by christya on Feb 10, 2023 13:53:25 GMT
Oh good grief. This is appalling. Even the quality of the recording is bad. I can't believe they took that gorgeous, soaring song and made it into this lispy, painful, shouty mess.
|
|
4,803 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Mark on Feb 10, 2023 14:57:58 GMT
Absolutely awful!
|
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 10, 2023 18:25:55 GMT
To be fair, I think it's a poor sound quality in the clip, it will likely sound much better on the recording. That said, she's clearly an inferior talent to CHF. My guess is the casting was rushed or they couldn't attract major talent due to the controversies in the London production. Never liked this song, too 'pop' for my liking (which is why I'm not a fan of 'Wicked' either). This is somewhat contrived melodically, one of his weaker efforts in my view.
|
|
19,773 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 10, 2023 19:10:04 GMT
Bring back CHF! 🤯
|
|
641 posts
|
Post by christya on Feb 10, 2023 19:17:10 GMT
To be fair, I think it's a poor sound quality in the clip, it will likely sound much better on the recording. That said, she's clearly an inferior talent to CHF. My guess is the casting was rushed or they couldn't attract major talent due to the controversies in the London production. Never liked this song, too 'pop' for my liking (which is why I'm not a fan of 'Wicked' either). This is somewhat contrived melodically, one of his weaker efforts in my view. I thought so too, but it wasn’t any better in Spotify, and that’s supposed to be an official single. |
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 10, 2023 21:08:59 GMT
Shocking. The singer has no voice at all. The new arrangement serves no purpose other than to accommodate her limited talents. It also sounds suspiciously like they've used autotune on the recording. It makes me wonder what the competition was like for her to win through.
|
|
|
|
Post by marob on Feb 10, 2023 22:12:16 GMT
I was curious to hear the re-orchestrations, but that’s terrible. I think the original Phil Spector-ish version was one of the standout tracks.
|
|
2,261 posts
|
Post by richey on Feb 10, 2023 23:13:11 GMT
Oh good grief. This is appalling. Even the quality of the recording is bad. I can't believe they took that gorgeous, soaring song and made it into this lispy, painful, shouty mess. wow. That is just awful. |
|
