77 posts
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Post by tributary on Aug 6, 2022 15:28:21 GMT
If it’s Whyman then they’re kaput. She has no record of attracting first-rank directors and likely no ability to attract them. I remember the RSC under Trevor Nunn and Terry Hands. I remember the RNT under Richard Eyre. If this autumn brings us Whyman at the RSC to set alongside the useless Norris at the RNT, I think I might start to oppose arts funding.
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Post by Jan on Aug 6, 2022 15:40:42 GMT
If it’s Whyman then they’re kaput. She has no record of attracting first-rank directors and likely no ability to attract them. I remember the RSC under Trevor Nunn and Terry Hands. I remember the RNT under Richard Eyre. If this autumn brings us Whyman at the RSC to set alongside the useless Norris at the RNT, I think I might start to oppose arts funding. What would also be odd is that as far as I can see she’s only ever directed (sorry, made) three Shakespeare plays in her life including her nine years at the RSC. Although to be fair she’s directed one of them, Winter’s Tale, twice.
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350 posts
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Post by cirque on Aug 6, 2022 15:42:30 GMT
Fully agree. It is a horror show .
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Post by Jan on Aug 6, 2022 15:53:20 GMT
I agree Norris is useless but at least he’s managed to programme two popular-looking Shakespeare plays for the rest of this year, something the RSC hasn’t managed despite it being their main job. I’m not that bothered about Norris, he’ll be gone in 2025 and whoever takes over has a clean slate. The RSC’s problems are much deeper and more structural, they’re in long-term decline which may actually be irreversible.
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77 posts
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Post by tributary on Aug 6, 2022 16:12:56 GMT
Norris has lost Travelex, raised the ticket prices through the roof and made the RNT somewhere the first rank of directors simply don’t want to work. He’s got worse and worse at the job and he wasn’t much good to begin with. I suspect financially Norris’ successor will inherit an organisation deep in the red. When you think that Hytner left Norris a profitable and successful RNT it is a crying shame indeed.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 6, 2022 16:39:44 GMT
The way ACE funding is currently structured actively works to the detriment of building true audience development.
Tick box diversity and inclusivity exercises do not build audiences. Using community actors does not build audiences.
The thing that does build audiences is quality productions with talented actors. If you do good work, people will come.
If you embark on a decade of mediocrity, your audience retention drops. If you extend that decade by doing more of the same, you deserve to fold.
The RSC doesn't have a god given right to exist. If it folds, something new will emerge from the wreckage.
But the fault is not just with the RSC board, ACE are at the heart of the problems with the entire sector.
They are not fit for purpose and need to be replaced with a new body that has a laser like focus on supporting audiences and quality.
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5,585 posts
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Post by lynette on Aug 6, 2022 21:07:42 GMT
I think we shouldn’t dismiss the educational work that the RSC does. The exam system has managed to diminish Shakespeare who is hanging on with his fingernails. I am not familiar with any outreach work that the NT has been doing give or take a pandemic of course. But I never see kids at the NT whereas you can always see them at the RSC ( sometimes they are American …) But I do agree with oxfordsimon that if it is good, they will come. Word of mouth is powerful, we all know that. The RSC has been slow out of the gates post covid and may have problems getting the creatives out of London but this may improve next year. Whoever is appointed I hope with give him/her/them a decent chance before we start sniping.
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Post by Jan on Aug 7, 2022 6:30:41 GMT
I think we shouldn’t dismiss the educational work that the RSC does. The exam system has managed to diminish Shakespeare who is hanging on with his fingernails. I am not familiar with any outreach work that the NT has been doing give or take a pandemic of course. But I never see kids at the NT whereas you can always see them at the RSC ( sometimes they are American …) But I do agree with oxfordsimon that if it is good, they will come. Word of mouth is powerful, we all know that. The RSC has been slow out of the gates post covid and may have problems getting the creatives out of London but this may improve next year. Whoever is appointed I hope with give him/her/them a decent chance before we start sniping. Agree but EW has already been there 9 years, is acting AD for the current period of inactivity and was defacto AD for certain areas before that. She’s already used up some of her chance to impress.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 7, 2022 9:45:07 GMT
Whoever takes over must have a track record of directing Shakespeare.
Not just one or two plays.
Emma Rice had directed only 1 Shakespeare before getting the Globe job and that was widely panned by critics.
Erica Whyman similarly had 1 Shakespeare directing credit when she was appointed to the RSC and has only added 2 since. 1, as has already been noted, was a repeat of The Winter's Tale.
It's time to put those with a track record of excellence with Shakespeare at the heart of our national Shakespeare company.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 7, 2022 10:33:54 GMT
The RSC has done great things. But they haven't matched that ambition in years.
Open Stages had 2 iterations and made a real difference to large numbers of amateur groups, performers and directors. That is what real community engagement looks like. Mentoring, training and education. Not using a few amateur actors to bulk things out.
Plus they worked with partners round the country to mean it was accessible to a huge geographical area.
The Complete Works festival was outstanding. Bringing together companies from all over the world to showcase all the plays in one year.
But what have we had since Doran and Whyman took over?
Increasingly tame productions just aimed at ticking boxes and not upsetting too many people
A woeful reaction to the pandemic with not enough effort made to sustain activity
Dismantling of the company concept
Loss of goodwill locally and nationally
Failure to complete Doran's aim to stage all the plays on the main stage in a timely fashion
A decade of mediocrity and failure.
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Post by cavocado on Aug 7, 2022 11:06:00 GMT
The make up of the RSC's board is interesting. From what I can see, there's no UK-based Shakespeare academic and nobody representing the local area, either business or district/county council. If you were setting up the company from scratch those would be two obvious areas you'd want represented on your board. www.rsc.org.uk/about-us/whos-who
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Post by Jan on Aug 9, 2022 11:29:40 GMT
The make up of the RSC's board is interesting. From what I can see, there's no UK-based Shakespeare academic and nobody representing the local area, either business or district/county council. If you were setting up the company from scratch those would be two obvious areas you'd want represented on your board. www.rsc.org.uk/about-us/whos-whoStanley Wells is there amongst the throng of board members and governors of varying grade and titles. It is surprising how many are USA-based or linked, given I would have thought zero was an appropriate number. None from the EU of course.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 9, 2022 12:21:39 GMT
There are some brilliant Shakespeare scholars in the US so I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to have them represented. 0lys the RSC has long ties to the US
Perhaps they should have audience representatives on the board. The people who pay to see the shows should have an input!
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Post by Jan on Aug 9, 2022 14:14:17 GMT
There are some brilliant Shakespeare scholars in the US so I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to have them represented. 0lys the RSC has long ties to the US Perhaps they should have audience representatives on the board. The people who pay to see the shows should have an input! Why not someone from the Comedie Francaise, or a major European Arts festival, or similar. Just to give a wider independent perspective ? There must be problems in common across these major European organisations. The RSC just seems so complacent and Little Englander in their outlook. And replete with conflicts of interest - Hilary Mantel and David Tenant as governors and creatives - how likely were those two to ever challenge Doran ?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 9, 2022 14:22:11 GMT
Given the greater reverence given to Shakespeare in Germany and Russian I can see the case for looking there for candidates.
But how many UK representatives are on the Comedie Francaise board?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 9, 2022 14:29:37 GMT
Given the greater reverence given to Shakespeare in Germany and Russian I can see the case for looking there for candidates. But how many UK representatives are on the Comedie Francaise board? None would be the answer
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Post by cavocado on Aug 9, 2022 15:10:52 GMT
I don't disagree with having US board members especially as they seem to do a lot of fundraising there.
But, as many of us have said in discussions on the RSC, they should be aiming for excellence, the best Shakespeare productions you can see anywhere in the world. And they should be committed to their Stratford base as a centre of excellence, which can't really be done without local support and an understanding of how they are embedded in the local economy. A strong commitment to those two things might be expected to be represented at board level, just as they've got people who represent/advise on their commitment to anti-racism for example. So I find it odd that there's no local representative or no UK academic on their board.
I'm not sure how audience representation would work. How would you pick someone? I imagine most of the UK board members are also audience members (albeit not ones who pay for their tickets).
As far as I understand it, the power is with the board members, not the governors, who seem to have more of an ambassadorial role, so I don't think there's any issue with having people like Tennant as governors.
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Post by Jan on Aug 9, 2022 15:22:01 GMT
I don't disagree with having US board members especially as they seem to do a lot of fundraising there. But, as many of us have said in discussions on the RSC, they should be aiming for excellence, the best Shakespeare productions you can see anywhere in the world. And they should be committed to their Stratford base as a centre of excellence, which can't really be done without local support and an understanding of how they are embedded in the local economy. A strong commitment to those two things might be expected to be represented at board level, just as they've got people who represent/advise on their commitment to anti-racism for example. So I find it odd that there's no local representative or no UK academic on their board. I'm not sure how audience representation would work. How would you pick someone? I imagine most of the UK board members are also audience members (albeit not ones who pay for their tickets). As far as I understand it, the power is with the board members, not the governors, who seem to have more of an ambassadorial role, so I don't think there's any issue with having people like Tennant as governors. Tenant was on the selection committee that appointed Doran. Was he on it this time too ?
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1,187 posts
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Post by theatrelover123 on Aug 9, 2022 19:21:51 GMT
Why was Neil Tennant from Pet Shop Boys on the selection committee? Most odd
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77 posts
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Post by tributary on Aug 9, 2022 21:42:00 GMT
I don't disagree with having US board members especially as they seem to do a lot of fundraising there. But, as many of us have said in discussions on the RSC, they should be aiming for excellence, the best Shakespeare productions you can see anywhere in the world. This is true but I can’t imagine they could be further away from it. If they appoint Whyman or Polly Findlay or Simon Godwin, in my opinion, they really are finished. Another national theatre company allowed to dwindle into expensive indifference.
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Post by kt12 on Aug 17, 2022 9:20:31 GMT
I think one of the major issues facing the future of The RSC , is to appoint a director who has a track record of directing Shakespeare. There's a history of directors being appointed to the role of AD of companies with little, or no Shakespeare experience. Droomgoole at The Globe had directed one, Michael Boyd, at The RSC, only one Shakespeare credit. The knock-on effect of this is that directors don't like to surround themselves with experienced Shakespearean actors. They feel threatened. This goes some way to explain why there seems to be a lack of seasoned Shakespearean actors on stage at our major companies. The great strength of The RSC in the 80's/90's was the quality of its leading actors and also very experienced actors playing supporting roles. It gave productions great gravitas and power. You'd be hard-pushed to find actors with a long list of Shakespeare credits in the company now playing say, The Duke in The Merchant of Venice, or The Archbishop in Henry V. Boyd got round that issue by repeatedly casting the same actors in his 'ensemble' , elevating certain actors again and again to playing leading roles, even if they weren't suitable or experienced enough. I'm thinking of Jonathan Slinger who was given almost every male lead possible - from Hamlet to Prospero. The Globe has become an exercise in political correctness, with Terry giving herself interesting parts, casting from a small pool of actors. Think of some of the great actors who could be cast as Prospero, but instead we currently have a guy willing to play the part in a pair of tiny swimming trunks! The RSC is in desperate need of a new AD with vision and experience - who can build on the companys great history.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 17, 2022 10:10:13 GMT
I didn't realise the Boyd and Dromgoole were so inexperienced with Shakespeare
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Post by Jan on Aug 17, 2022 13:11:06 GMT
I didn't realise the Boyd and Dromgoole were so inexperienced with Shakespeare That's not true of Boyd. Here are the Shakespeare productions he directed before taking over as AD in 2002/3. Othello (1985) Macbeth (1985) Much Ado About Nothing (1995) Measure for Measure (1998) Troilus and Cressida (1999) Midsummer Night's Dream (1999) Romeo & Juliet (2000) Henry VI 1,2,3 (2000) Richard III (2000) The Tempest (2002)
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Post by kt12 on Aug 17, 2022 23:32:28 GMT
I stand corrected on the number of Shakespeare plays Boyd directed before taking over The RSC. But even 10 plays seems a slim number to run the premiere classical theatre company in the world. My point still stands about the issue of avoiding experienced Shakespearean actors - and how a new AD of The RSC needs to use and embrace its alumni.
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Post by Jan on Aug 18, 2022 7:57:33 GMT
I stand corrected on the number of Shakespeare plays Boyd directed before taking over The RSC. But even 10 plays seems a slim number to run the premiere classical theatre company in the world. My point still stands about the issue of avoiding experienced Shakespearean actors - and how a new AD of The RSC needs to use and embrace its alumni. It is 12 plays, Henry VI is 3. I 100% agree with you, it was just that the comment about Boyd struck me as being wrong and I looked it up out of interest. I think Terry Hands, Adrian Noble and Greg Doran had all directed more than that. I think the answer to the question “Who took over as AD of the RSC having only ever directed one Shakespeare production ?” is probably Trevor Nunn. The problem is there now isn’t a single candidate for the job who has directed anything near to 12 Shakespeares. Doran has seen to that, he hasn’t allowed any director other than himself to direct a substantial number of plays during his 10-year tenure, he’s just brought in different freelances and given them 1-3 productions each. I think you’re right on Dromgoole’s experience - that didn’t stop him writing an article telling the RSC where they were going wrong in directing Shakespeare.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 18, 2022 13:02:37 GMT
I knew I should have applied
I have directed:
Merry Wives Richard III As You Like It King Lear Henry IV (cut into 1 play) Much Ado Twelfth Night Love's Labour's Lost
Sadly no Marlowe. But 1 Jonson (Volpone)
I am still short of having seen all the Shakespeare plays. Timon, Henry VIII and Two Noble Kinsmen have eluded me.
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1,177 posts
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Post by joem on Aug 18, 2022 21:44:35 GMT
Why was Neil Tennant from Pet Shop Boys on the selection committee? Most odd I thought we said it couldn't happen here!
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5,585 posts
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Post by lynette on Aug 26, 2022 16:57:05 GMT
I knew I should have applied I have directed: Merry Wives Richard III As You Like It King Lear Henry IV (cut into 1 play) Much Ado Twelfth Night Love's Labour's Lost Sadly no Marlowe. But 1 Jonson (Volpone) I am still short of having seen all the Shakespeare plays. Timon, Henry VIII and Two Noble Kinsmen have eluded me. I have seen them all, most of them, too many times to count up. So I am qualified. Remind me what the job is ..
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Post by Jan on Aug 26, 2022 17:16:49 GMT
I am still short of having seen all the Shakespeare plays. Timon, Henry VIII and Two Noble Kinsmen have eluded me. Surprised you haven't seen Timon, I've seen it a few times, 4-5 maybe. The best was the Trevor Nunn/David Suchet one, I forget exactly how many lines Nunn wrote and added but it was in the hundreds.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 26, 2022 17:19:52 GMT
I was booked to see it at the National with SRB but was ill on the day
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