4,029 posts
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 27, 2022 20:06:50 GMT
Shows didn't cancel last Friday when storm Eunice paralysed all rail routes in and out of London. I don't know about West End shows but both the ROH & ENO cancelled their opera performances that Friday. |
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Post by interval99 on Feb 28, 2022 15:21:34 GMT
This must be getting worrying. The tube map app which has quietly been on my phone for years has issued its first ever pop up message about the next couple of days travel.
Good luck to any board members getting around the capital.
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641 posts
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Post by christya on Mar 1, 2022 7:52:09 GMT
I’m not even going to try the Tube today. It’s a 35-40 minute walk from my hotel to Kings Cross, and I’d imagine the traffic will be awful so getting a cab might not be faster. Looks like I’ll be getting some steps in.
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Post by sph on Mar 1, 2022 23:37:50 GMT
I just got home. I sincerely hope they all get replaced by robots.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 0:14:57 GMT
Didn't even make it in to work today or to class this evening.
I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home but I feel for those who aren't, especially those who have actual justifiable concerns about their remuneration and pensions like NHS staff. Not Tube staff.
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Post by sph on Mar 2, 2022 0:53:05 GMT
Didn't even make it in to work today or to class this evening. I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home but I feel for those who aren't, especially those who have actual justifiable concerns about their remuneration and pensions like NHS staff. Not Tube staff. It took over two hours each way. In the rain. Even with buses. I can't afford to drop £40-£50 each way on an uber... I wouldn't mind if they went on strike every few years or something, but the frequency that they DO strike means they know they have the city in a choke hold. And it's the workers who HAVE to be out there getting to their physical place of work: nurses, shop assistants, waiters, cleaners etc who pay the price. Even if you manage to force your way onto a packed bus (many of which are so crowded they don't even stop to let anyone on), you're in gridlock traffic for hours. It's too much. We need to stop them somehow. It's not fair that they do this to us. They are on more money than most and get more holiday than most. We've all faced cuts and adjustments to our jobs as a result of a pandemic, but we're all out there adapting to and getting on with it. A few months ago I signed a petition to bring back the night tube to give Londoners, especially women, a safe and affordable way to get home after hours. Drivers went on strike against it and will continue to do so until June I think? It is beyond the pale. |
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7,189 posts
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Post by Jon on Mar 2, 2022 1:57:10 GMT
I don't have a problem with the unions but the RMT who are responsible for this particular strike always seem to be favour of strikes whereas the other unions only strike as a last resort.
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8,159 posts
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Post by alece10 on Mar 2, 2022 8:24:38 GMT
This morning was fun. No strike today but no trains at all first thing so only choice to get to work was taxi (Uber). Usual journey price £12. This morning £30!!!
Just like the theatre dynamic pricing.
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Post by thistimetomorrow on Mar 2, 2022 9:38:53 GMT
Ended up walking home over an hour yesterday since I waited for over 20 minutes for my bus but it didn't come and on the entire walk home (I walked the bus route in the hope that one would pass and I could get on) only 1 bus passed me and it was so full one guy was literally trying to strong arm the doors open to get on
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341 posts
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Post by adrianics on Mar 2, 2022 10:00:24 GMT
Didn't even make it in to work today or to class this evening. I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home but I feel for those who aren't, especially those who have actual justifiable concerns about their remuneration and pensions like NHS staff. Not Tube staff. How can you say that TFL staff "don't have actual justifiable concerns" when you previously said that you don't know why this strike is happening and don't care enough to find out? As a union member: Strikes really do not happen for no reason. Every day on strike has huge repercussions, both professionally and personally. Why not do the most rudimental reading and research into why this is happening and base your opinion on that rather than deciding that you don't support the strikers in advance? And I would point out that "others have it worse" is a reason to support the others who have it worse, not condemn those with the power and strength to get better deals. Why not be angry at those who treat and pay nurses badly rather than the tube workers? |
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Post by sph on Mar 2, 2022 12:41:42 GMT
Why are we angry? Because they strike all the time! That's why! We all have problems with our employers from time to time but no one goes on strike like they do.
The knee-jerk reaction to strike against everything is ridiculous and puts millions of people in a very compromising position. They aren't just hitting the higher-ups, they're affecting all of us. My commute added up to over 4 hours yesterday. What if I had kids? Who would take care of them? What if I were elderly or disabled or had an urgent medical appointment? What if I was so late to my job I lost wages? (Incidentally I was still 15 minutes late in spite of leaving much, much earlier than necessary).
No. If the drivers expect X, Y and Z that's fine. But they should find another way to negotiate with their employers rather than making everyone else suffer.
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341 posts
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Post by adrianics on Mar 2, 2022 12:49:28 GMT
I didn't ask "why are you angry", so I'm really not entirely sure why you're listing out the consequences of the strikes, which are apparent, obvious and awful.
So many falsehoods in that post, namely the implication that negotiations have not already happened, "they strike all the time", "they strike against everything" and the apparent belief that it's the tube drivers leading this particular action and I do not have the time or inclination to go through them all. I invite you, as I did Poster J, to do some actual research and reading into this situation.
And there will be nobody more aware of the negative impact of these strikes, and subsequent public opinion and interaction, than the workers themselves. I don't know if you have ever been part of a union or on strike yourself, but all I can do is assure you once again that these decisions are never taken lightly.
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Post by sph on Mar 2, 2022 13:02:41 GMT
They seem to be taken lightly enough that they happen with great frequency.
And of course negotiations have happened, but if a solution cannot be found without CONSISTENTLY shutting down the transport system of a major city then OTHER WAYS must be found to negotiate, because we cannot go through this every single time. It isn't practical. It isn't fair.
There are some places in the world, where transport systems strike by letting passengers use the service for free.
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7,189 posts
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Post by Jon on Mar 2, 2022 15:12:25 GMT
I do think we need to be careful not to tar all Tube workers with the same brush as not all of them are part of the RMT who are the ones striking.
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341 posts
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Post by adrianics on Mar 2, 2022 15:15:04 GMT
Negotiations happen constantly behind the scenes without getting anywhere close to strike action, so I don't know what you mean by "consistently shutting down" or "going through this every single time".
Are you able to give some specifics or examples of these "other ways to negotiate" that you believe haven't already been tried?
And without being too obvious, strikes aren't supposed to be "practical" or "fair"; what would the point be if there wasn't inconvenience or disruption?
I know that allowing the passengers to travel for free as strike action is a popular suggestion that happens in other countries (not certain what the consequences for doing so are in those countries), but from what I know this is illegal in the UK so is not an option. I am happy to be corrected by someone who knows more than I do but that's the impression I've gotten from my research.
And what Jon says is true; it's also worth pointing out that RMT also represent other workers besides drivers.
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Post by sph on Mar 2, 2022 15:34:07 GMT
I'm sorry, but if negotiations are breaking down to the point that the workers of ANY company are striking more than once a year, then neither side is particularly skilled in that department.
If the "last resort" is used with such frequency, it begins to look less like a last resort, and more like a first point of call to those on the outside.
Striking more than once a year (even just once is a lot) points to a major failure on both sides of the argument. It is just used particularly often by those who are members of unions for tube workers because they know they can hold a city to ransom.
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5,159 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Mar 2, 2022 17:48:37 GMT
Name one highly-charged, adversarial industrial dispute that has ever ended well for workers in the long-term. Just one.
How many deep coals mines are still operating?
How large is the UK steel industry?
When was the Dock Labour Scheme abolished?
How many large merchant ships have been built on the Clyde in the last 40 years?
When did British Leyland build its last car?
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Post by profquatermass on Mar 2, 2022 18:36:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 18:49:46 GMT
According to that link the strike is solely about the non-replacement of 900 retiring station staff?
If that's the case then I have even less sympathy given the percentage of station staff I ever see doing anything!! Some of them are great, but the ones at my local station sit in a booth at the gate line on their phones not doing anything in the slightest to stop fire dodgers or anything like that right under their noses. I'm not sure the station would be any different if it wasn't staffed at all most of the time (and indeed in the evenings it doesn't seem to be). Obviously some level of staffing is necessary for emergencies, but there seem to be plenty of superfluous staff around as it is.
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8,159 posts
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Post by alece10 on Mar 2, 2022 20:24:18 GMT
According to that link the strike is solely about the non-replacement of 900 retiring station staff? If that's the case then I have even less sympathy given the percentage of station staff I ever see doing anything!! Some of them are great, but the ones at my local station sit in a booth at the gate line on their phones not doing anything in the slightest to stop fire dodgers or anything like that right under their noses. I'm not sure the station would be any different if it wasn't staffed at all most of the time (and indeed in the evenings it doesn't seem to be). Obviously some level of staffing is necessary for emergencies, but there seem to be plenty of superfluous staff around as it is. Sounds like my station. Just looking at their phones. I once had a person push right behind me to get through the barrier without a ticket. Went to the TFL guy in the box and asked him why he didn't do anything about it. He told me "it's not my job" and said that I should have challenged him myself if I was unhappy. I asked him what his job was then and he told me "customer service". £34,000 to looknat your phone all day. Sign me up! |
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8,159 posts
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Post by alece10 on Mar 2, 2022 20:25:00 GMT
They don't need to strike for pay as they have just been given an 8% pay rise. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 20:31:36 GMT
According to that link the strike is solely about the non-replacement of 900 retiring station staff? If that's the case then I have even less sympathy given the percentage of station staff I ever see doing anything!! Some of them are great, but the ones at my local station sit in a booth at the gate line on their phones not doing anything in the slightest to stop fire dodgers or anything like that right under their noses. I'm not sure the station would be any different if it wasn't staffed at all most of the time (and indeed in the evenings it doesn't seem to be). Obviously some level of staffing is necessary for emergencies, but there seem to be plenty of superfluous staff around as it is. Sounds like my station. Just looking at their phones. I once had a person push right behind me to get through the barrier without a ticket. Went to the TFL guy in the box and asked him why he didn't do anything about it. He told me "it's not my job" and said that I should have challenged him myself if I was unhappy. I asked him what his job was then and he told me "customer service". £34,000 to looknat your phone all day. Sign me up! Yes that's happened to me too. I now walk through the barriers deliberately slowly to stop it happening. Stratford is just as bad - groups of staff members standing around chatting and doing nothing else! It was particularly infuriating during the pandemic seeing how many of them were incapable of complying with their own employer's mask rules. If I saw anything to make me feel they are in any way short changed for the job they do, I might have some sympathy for the strikes, but that just isn't the reality. |
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Post by sph on Mar 2, 2022 22:37:03 GMT
To me, it's not a case of what they actually do for their day-to-day jobs. It's the fact that striking multiple times per year is considered normal behaviour somehow?
In what other industry is that normal? There is clearly poor negotiation and unwillingness to compromise running rampant on both sides, and Londoners are left to deal with the fallout time and time again.
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Post by jojo on Mar 3, 2022 10:27:27 GMT
I'm sorry, but if negotiations are breaking down to the point that the workers of ANY company are striking more than once a year, then neither side is particularly skilled in that department. If the "last resort" is used with such frequency, it begins to look less like a last resort, and more like a first point of call to those on the outside. Striking more than once a year (even just once is a lot) points to a major failure on both sides of the argument. It is just used particularly often by those who are members of unions for tube workers because they know they can hold a city to ransom. I'm a member of a union and have gone on strike in the past (though one time I didn't go on strike when I disagreed with the reason), so I like to think I'm open minded about these things. Tube strikes do seem to be used as a planned regular reminder that it's something they can and will do. I have more sympathy with a strike to maintain posts, though I take the point that many of those currently in the role aren't doing a good job of showing their value. I saw someone earlier claim that only right-wingers would object to tube strikes, or point out that the drivers earn (much) more than nurses. Yes, nurses should earn more too, but I wonder what kind of pay rise tube drivers would expect to keep up with the extra tax demands should we decide to increase the salary of nurses, teachers and police officers to that of tube drivers? Part of me does think 'fair play', they've made a case for better pay, but then I remember that they restrict who can apply for jobs, which seems to be a tactic to keep supply low as an excuse to demand higher wages. I've heard from doctors that they think their own professional exams to be eligible to become a consultant are made artificially hard to limit supply to match the jobs available for the same reason, but at least there you can argue there's benefit to the end user. With more people able to work from home I'll be interested to see how that alters the balance of power. I have a friend who needed to go into work, so left extra early expecting massive delays, but just got into work early without much fuss. |
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Post by adrianics on Mar 3, 2022 11:35:26 GMT
Sounds like my station. Just looking at their phones. I once had a person push right behind me to get through the barrier without a ticket. Went to the TFL guy in the box and asked him why he didn't do anything about it. He told me "it's not my job" and said that I should have challenged him myself if I was unhappy. I asked him what his job was then and he told me "customer service". £34,000 to looknat your phone all day. Sign me up! Yes that's happened to me too. I now walk through the barriers deliberately slowly to stop it happening. Stratford is just as bad - groups of staff members standing around chatting and doing nothing else! It was particularly infuriating during the pandemic seeing how many of them were incapable of complying with their own employer's mask rules. If I saw anything to make me feel they are in any way short changed for the job they do, I might have some sympathy for the strikes, but that just isn't the reality. The proportional response to a negative experience at a tube station is to raise a complaint and give the staff a chance to make the situation better rather than cherrypick it as justification for your unilateral condemnation of a network of literally thousands of employees of dozens of different positions. Claiming that your extraordinarily limited, and shamelessly biased and pre-judged, experience of tube stations is "the reality" is incredibly arrogant. If you, and the others in this thread sharing similar views, are so certain that TFL staff are grossly overpaid and overcompensated compared to the work they actually do, what exactly is stopping you from resigning the post you currently have and taking one of these ultra-cushy jobs in TFL? tfl.taleo.net/careersection/external/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en |
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