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Post by jaggy on Feb 27, 2022 21:33:36 GMT
I agree on this - almost all the actors, established and newcomers, I had down as theatre 'must sees' 4 or 5 years ago are now doing TV or film instead, most for US companies. Jodie Comer has had to turn down a scheduled but covid-delayed Napoleon film to do Prima Facie, but with covid messing up schedules too, can actors committed to Netflix or Amazon series take any time out for theatre now? Still, it must be a great time to be an actor or anyone else with screen skills - I've got a relative who works on the technical side of filmmaking and he's always busy now going all over the place c/o the big streamers. But that's always been in the case. Olivia Colman admitted during a talk for Mosquitos that theatre's difficult for her because of the scheduling which is why she's rarely does it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see certain actors like Keeley Hawes do more theatre but we have to be realistic on the fact they have other commitments. Has it? When I look into the careers of Maggie Smith or Judi Dench. Both became globally adored, revered and known yet still gave time to theatre. I don't think I see that nowadays; a good balance between film/ TV and theatre. It's a complicated issue that is influenced by many, many factors: age, money, free time, the actor's agents, the actors themselves, the state of theatre and its relevancy, streaming contracts and now covid. I will say when I look back at actors working 20, 30, 40 years ago there's definitely a shift. We don't have the likes of Fiona Shaw, Lindsay Duncan, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, Eileen Atkins, Ian McKellen, Paul Scofield, Derek Jacobi, Clare Higgins, etc anymore. Is that because before we can develop a new generation of renowned theatre actors they're taken away for film and TV or just nostalgia blinding me?
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Post by jaggy on Feb 27, 2022 21:47:44 GMT
I have to say that I agree with Rufus Norris with regard to "Most actors who would sell a theatre are now attached to some kind of contract with Netflix or Amazon." We're seeing a great deal of British actors who began in theatre become big names in Hollywood I agree on this - almost all the actors, established and newcomers, I had down as theatre 'must sees' 4 or 5 years ago are now doing TV or film instead, most for US companies. Jodie Comer has had to turn down a scheduled but covid-delayed Napoleon film to do Prima Facie, but with covid messing up schedules too, can actors committed to Netflix or Amazon series take any time out for theatre now? Still, it must be a great time to be an actor or anyone else with screen skills - I've got a relative who works on the technical side of filmmaking and he's always busy now going all over the place c/o the big streamers. The thing is I watch far more films than anything else. I'm more than happy to see a fantastic performance from Olivia Coleman in The Lost Daughter on Netflix. I'm overjoyed when a theatre actor becomes widely beloved and respected. However, I worry about theatre, its relevancy, the lack of interest in theatre from my generation and the generation after me, etc. I think it all influences each other. A great big circle or spider web of causes and effects.
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Post by Jon on Feb 27, 2022 22:04:07 GMT
The thing is I watch far more films than anything else. I'm more than happy to see a fantastic performance from Olivia Coleman in The Lost Daughter on Netflix. I'm overjoyed when a theatre actor becomes widely beloved and respected. However, I worry about theatre, its relevancy, the lack of interest in theatre from my generation and the generation after me, etc. I think it all influences each other. A great big circle or spider web of causes and effects. Theatre is not going to become extinct just because some actors prefer to do TV or film.
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Post by jaggy on Feb 27, 2022 22:15:28 GMT
The thing is I watch far more films than anything else. I'm more than happy to see a fantastic performance from Olivia Coleman in The Lost Daughter on Netflix. I'm overjoyed when a theatre actor becomes widely beloved and respected. However, I worry about theatre, its relevancy, the lack of interest in theatre from my generation and the generation after me, etc. I think it all influences each other. A great big circle or spider web of causes and effects. Theatre is not going to become extinct just because some actors prefer to do TV or film. Ofc it isn't going to become extinct! I know and believe theatre will survive whatever. My point being, I find there to be a lack of interest in theatre from my generation (more so plays than musicals) and certain big names would attract a younger audience who then may go on to explore the works of that playwright or decided to see more shows. I think of when they hired Sean Combs for A Raisin in the Sun all those years ago. The actors gushed about how a whole new audience were introduced to theatre and Lorraine Hansberry because of the casting. The point is big names attract big crowds from all demographics which is beneficial to the theatres and theatre as a whole.
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Post by sph on Feb 28, 2022 0:31:53 GMT
I don't think theatre actors are being lost to TV and film any more now than they ever have. Stage actors have been going off to do these things since the literal beginning of the screen industry.
I think sometimes people like Rufus Norris just get an interview and say any old rubbish, whether they mean it or not.
People said the "talkies" were taking away theatre actors. People said the studio system was taking away theatre actors. People said the newly-founded TV industry was taking them away. This is something that has been happeing in every generation of the screen industry. And yet people fall over in shock like it's something new.
And besides, screen work pays better and acting is an insecure career. Theatre might pay your rent, but TV will buy your house.
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 28, 2022 1:39:22 GMT
Theatre has always been the hardest work for the smallest pay. But then again you have the instant gratification of a large audience, which in itself is aphrodisiac that is lacking in tv and film.
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Post by crowblack on Feb 28, 2022 9:32:53 GMT
I think you are very optimistic. We have never had a TV boom like this before: lots of streaming giants with deep pockets making numerous English language long running series with 8 hour plus running times per season, large casts, generally of younger people, global locations, most I'd imagine with good pay and contracts that bind the main cast in to doing (or prioritising) just that one thing, and reaching a global audience. Meanwhile on the ground we have sky-high living costs which means it's mainly wealthier or already major-city-based people who can go in for theatre, and the theatregoing experience itself which has rarely been comfortable in venues that were designed for the viewing expectations of a century ago.
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Post by Jan on Feb 28, 2022 13:37:39 GMT
A related problem Norris doesn’t mention is that famous TV/film actors can choose the theatre parts they want to play whether they’re suitable for them or not. Most recently I thought Saoirse Ronan was miscast in Macbeth although that isn’t the most egregious example of it I’ve seen.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 28, 2022 18:41:47 GMT
The Donmar over the years has managed to attract very high profile casts to perform for next to no money in a tiny space.
Less so in recent years but you don't have to travel back far in time to see the calibre of actor they have attracted.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 28, 2022 19:29:57 GMT
Discussing this with my theatre buddy at the weekend, we couldn’t help but note that other theatres appear to have attracted name talent - Kit Harrington, Eddie Redmayne, Paul Bettany, Taron Egerton, Amy Adams, Ruth Wilson, Emilia Clarke, James McAvoy, Ralph Fiennes….
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Post by mkb on Mar 1, 2022 0:30:14 GMT
I've just seen Gina Mckee, Toby Stephens and Paul McGann at The Hampstead. So they don't have a problem attracting good actors from the telly.
There is no shortage of lesser known, but excellent, actors out there. The National Theatre, of all places, shouldn't need big names to draw in an audience.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 1, 2022 10:06:44 GMT
Indeed it isn't the lure of telly that is holding the National back, it is the work it has been producing.
Sure there have been a few hits since Norris took over. But there have been a significant number of high profile flops.
It is not seen as the top quality gig it has been in the past.
Would you risk your reputation on being cast in another Hex or Macbeth?
Or would you rather wait a few years in the hope that a new AD will set it on a better path?
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Post by crowblack on Mar 1, 2022 10:41:10 GMT
I've just seen Gina Mckee, Toby Stephens and Paul McGann at The Hampstead. So they don't have a problem attracting good actors from the telly. There is no shortage of lesser known, but excellent, actors out there. The National Theatre, of all places, shouldn't need big names to draw in an audience. They're actors from the telly but from a previous generation of terrestrial telly. It's the young to middle aged who are being drawn to Netflix, Amazon, Apple, HBO and the like. And realistically, if it's a new play with an unfamiliar cast, it's less likely to pull in an audience.
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Post by Jan on Mar 1, 2022 11:08:27 GMT
Indeed it isn't the lure of telly that is holding the National back, it is the work it has been producing. Sure there have been a few hits since Norris took over. But there have been a significant number of high profile flops. It is not seen as the top quality gig it has been in the past. Would you risk your reputation on being cast in another Hex or Macbeth? Bertie Carvel in Damned By Despair for example. Straight from his Matilda fame into that monstrous turkey - he seemed embarrassed to take a bow at the end. He appears elsewhere now, Rupert Goold is not only a better director than Norris but a better producer also.
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Post by crowblack on Mar 1, 2022 17:20:41 GMT
I've just seen that America's A24 has just 'poached' (in the words of the Hollywood Reporter) the BBC's head of film and the BBC's head of drama. It does really feel like British TV and theatre are fast becoming the 'nursery slopes' for the big US production companies.
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Post by mkb on Mar 2, 2022 0:43:22 GMT
In football, clubs like Southampton do very well out of training up players in their Academy and selling the best on to big clubs. There's no reason the NT and the BBC can't be like that, nurturing and training the next generation and allowing the high-flyers to depart when they become too expensive to keep. It's not like there is any shortage of potential talent.
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Post by crowblack on Mar 2, 2022 10:02:20 GMT
In football, clubs like Southampton do very well out of training up players in their Academy and selling the best on to big clubs. There's no reason the NT and the BBC can't be like that, nurturing and training the next generation and allowing the high-flyers to depart when they become too expensive to keep. It's not like there is any shortage of potential talent. The BBC do seem to be going on an active search for new writers, but it's not really a long-term model for theatre though: young actors will not learn stage skills, being picked up very early in their careers by TV because so much TV wants young casts for young audiences, upcoming writers will be writing for the TV execs in the audience rather than plays that work satisfyingly on stage, and if the only time the tv and film names set foot back on stage is to Cabaret pricing, you'll not be bringing in a younger generation of audience to keep theatres full and running.
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Post by nottobe on Mar 6, 2022 12:54:07 GMT
One thing I have also noticed just now is that they don't seem to have shows running in repertory any more. Would be a shame if they scrap doing this as it was one of the standouts of the NT. Maybe this could be why they are struggling to get stars, I remember Olivia Coleman did mosquitoes as it wasn't 8 shows a week so she could be with her family more.
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Post by mkb on Mar 6, 2022 13:09:28 GMT
They make it very hard for those of us outside London too. To avoid spending on hotels, the Saturday matinée is the only option (since English trains shut down early on Saturday evenings).
It was brilliant when they did Sunday shows, but they have long gone. They put out some guff about them not being popular, but that wasn't my experience. They always seemed to be busy and the hardest to get good seats for.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 6, 2022 13:11:23 GMT
They make it very hard for those of us outside London too. To avoid spending on hotels, the Saturday matinée is the only option (since English trains shut down early on Saturday evenings). It was brilliant when they did Sunday shows, but they have long gone. They put out some guff about them not being popular, but that wasn't my experience. They always seemed to be busy and the hardest to get good seats for. they meant with the actors… 🙂
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Post by n1david on Mar 6, 2022 13:45:27 GMT
One thing I have also noticed just now is that they don't seem to have shows running in repertory any more. Would be a shame if they scrap doing this as it was one of the standouts of the NT. They spoke about this when they reopened - it's to reduce the amount of work involved in changing sets on a regular basis, to reduce the exposure of backstage staff to Covid. This should mean that they're able to go back to rep soon, but I'm guessing it also saves money if there is less work for backstage crews...
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Post by jojo on Mar 6, 2022 18:54:36 GMT
But that's always been in the case. Olivia Colman admitted during a talk for Mosquitos that theatre's difficult for her because of the scheduling which is why she's rarely does it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see certain actors like Keeley Hawes do more theatre but we have to be realistic on the fact they have other commitments. Has it? When I look into the careers of Maggie Smith or Judi Dench. Both became globally adored, revered and known yet still gave time to theatre. I don't think I see that nowadays; a good balance between film/ TV and theatre. It's a complicated issue that is influenced by many, many factors: age, money, free time, the actor's agents, the actors themselves, the state of theatre and its relevancy, streaming contracts and now covid. I will say when I look back at actors working 20, 30, 40 years ago there's definitely a shift. We don't have the likes of Fiona Shaw, Lindsay Duncan, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, Eileen Atkins, Ian McKellen, Paul Scofield, Derek Jacobi, Clare Higgins, etc anymore. Is that because before we can develop a new generation of renowned theatre actors they're taken away for film and TV or just nostalgia blinding me? There is the theory that everyone thinks the best decade for music is the one they grew up with. Nostalgia does play a big role in how we related to certain things, and theatre is not exempt. But they had a decent chat about theatre on Graham Norton's tv show a few weeks ago, so I stay optimistic. However, there's no denying that the tv and film landscape has changed, and the money for quality tv is considerable in what remains an uncertain profession for most actors. The chance at a well paying stint on tv is going to be attractive for actors at all levels, moreso if it's going to raise their profile. It still seems to be desirable and sense of pride for top British film and tv actors to do theatre. British film actors have always been less snobby than the Americans about doing tv, but tv has become more prestigious, and some of that prestige tv requires a bigger commitment than doing the odd mini-series for the BBC. Scheduling is perhaps the real issue, complicated by COVID. The really big stars with the bigger bank balances can afford to block off time in their calendars for theatre with enough wriggle room to satisfy contracts, but it's harder for jobbing actors or their agents to risk the hit. Perhaps tv and theatres companies need to learn to work together to make it easier for actors to do both. Scheduling too. I can't blame parents of school aged children who don't need to work 6 evenings a week not wanting to work 6 evenings a week too often.
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Post by teamyali on Mar 8, 2022 23:15:57 GMT
With The Normal Heart (kinda) overperforming with 5 nominations at this year’s Olivier Awards, what does it mean for the National? There’s been years where the NT dominates the Oliviers, the other times they don’t.
The National can submit multiple productions for the awards, but the Olivier voters only cared about The Normal Heart. I see some Michael Sheen stans fuming that he’s snubbed again. Though I wish there are six nominees per category like the BAFTAs do.
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Post by artea on Mar 9, 2022 13:33:09 GMT
If you're thinking about regaining the NT habit....
Today is Amex booking day for Summer 2022 and, for the first time, you're allowed to pay with credit vouchers. (Amex card used to be mandatory.) Even more remarkably, all your credit vouchers have been consolidated and actually appear now on your account - the total value appears on the payment page. Another first as far as I'm aware.
NT productions might not improve but using NT credit vouchers is undeniably better.
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Post by peggs on Mar 9, 2022 22:08:09 GMT
Thanks for the heads up artea I don't have any vouchers (panicked a month or so back and used them in case there wasn't nothing I wanted/could go to and they ran out) but that's a definite improvement and I'd forgotten it was amex today.
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