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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 15, 2021 19:04:43 GMT
It's A Sin reminded me, to a certain extent, of Craig Lucas and Norman Rene's Longtime Companion. It spanned the same period of time, and looked at the impact of AIDS on a group of gay friends in Manhattan, although they are older and more affluent (and less ethnically diverse) than those in IAS - though one is an actor! It also has a 'Jill' character. One major difference is that it was written and released in 1989 when AIDS was still very much a death threat - so was a contemporary drama rather than a period piece. I haven't seen it for years and it doesn't seem to be available on any streaming services so don't know how it holds up - but I bet Russell T Davies has watched it. It appears to be on the YouTubes |
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 15, 2021 21:40:18 GMT
No. Something that takes the raw emotion of It's a Sin and gives it an American twist. It would need to be better that QAF US. But it could be done. I thought the first 3 seasons of the US QAF were great, then it turned real lame real fast. I would argue that this has any raw emotion, it's very manipulative. |
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Post by danb on Feb 16, 2021 17:16:18 GMT
No. Something that takes the raw emotion of It's a Sin and gives it an American twist. It would need to be better that QAF US. But it could be done. I thought the first 3 seasons of the US QAF were great, then it turned real lame real fast. I would argue that this has any raw emotion, it's very manipulative. I would agree. I enjoyed it but everything was clearly signposted and the only moment of real emotion for me came when Shaun Dooleys Dad immediately sprang to his sons side when he revealed his illness after being thoroughly distant before. That was a moment of heartbreak I could understand and relate to. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 16, 2021 17:32:20 GMT
I thought the first 3 seasons of the US QAF were great, then it turned real lame real fast. I would argue that this has any raw emotion, it's very manipulative. I would agree. I enjoyed it but everything was clearly signposted and the only moment of real emotion for me came when Shaun Dooleys Dad immediately sprang to his sons side when he revealed his illness after being thoroughly distant before. That was a moment of heartbreak I could understand and relate to. Yes, agreed. None of it really rang true for me until the last episode which did definitely save the series for me. I mean it's not really a criticism as it is definitely a 'for the masses' series, but it was pretty predictable and formulaic. The first 2 Ep's both had 'happy happy joy joy' montage scenes and then slaps in the face with the bed cleaning in Ep 1 and the fire scene in Ep 2 and I don't think any of us were at all surprised when Colin got the most horrifying death because he had been set up as the 'nice guy' of the series. |
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Post by anthony40 on Feb 16, 2021 17:55:49 GMT
What an interesting point you raise about Colin.
I for one what quite surprised.; possibly even shocked.
Yes, he had been set up at the nice guy, dressed smartly, quiet, reserved, always phoning his mother.
Even among the group he seemed the odd one out.
But to me, Colin was the audience. As the outsider we, as the audience, coukd follow him into this world.
Also, because up until that point he had not seen him sexually.
We knew he was gay and had seen him ward off advances but had never actually seen him as a sexual being
For me too (and I have referenced this in a earlier post) I was unaware that seizures are a side effect of the HIV diagnisis.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 16, 2021 18:21:27 GMT
I literally had a moment when I thought, ‘oh no you’re the one who is going to catch it next because you’re lovely and this is a RTD show so he’s going to stab the audience right through the heart’, so I was expecting that, but I wasn’t expecting the ‘treatment’ he got and his lovely Mum charging in to rescue him...
🥺
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 16, 2021 19:10:19 GMT
What an interesting point you raise about Colin. I for one what quite surprised.; possibly even shocked. Yes, he had been set up at the nice guy, dressed smartly, quiet, reserved, always phoning his mother. Even among the group he seemed the odd one out. But to me, Colin was the audience. As the outsider we, as the audience, coukd follow him into this world. Also, because up until that point he had not seen him sexually. We knew he was gay and had seen him ward off advances but had never actually seen him as a sexual being For me too (and I have referenced this in a earlier post) I was unaware that seizures are a side effect of the HIV diagnisis. It's the quiet ones you've got to watch out for  I actually disliked what they did during Colin's final moments. It became a very weird kind of 'whodunnit' moment where the mystery of who infected him became the focal point of his death scene instead of letting us grieve properly for his passing. They could've very easily revealed that earlier on when it was being discussed. It annoyed me as it took me out of the moment. Maybe it was done on purpose to lessen the misery of his passing, but it didn't work for me because I wanted to feel 'his' passing, not go 'ahhhh that's who he got it from' in the middle of it. The music playing over the scene (which they played over the next few scenes) was also dreadful. As I grew up during the era I think most of the horrors of the disease were covered fairly well in both And the Band Played On and Philadelphia so I knew most of that stuff already so nothing in this really shocked me I have to say. |
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Post by alece10 on Feb 16, 2021 19:11:01 GMT
Can I ask People to be a bit careful when posting as many of are watching this "live" every Friday and haven't got to episode 5 yet.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Feb 16, 2021 22:58:30 GMT
What an interesting point you raise about Colin. I for one what quite surprised.; possibly even shocked. Yes, he had been set up at the nice guy, dressed smartly, quiet, reserved, always phoning his mother. Even among the group he seemed the odd one out. But to me, Colin was the audience. As the outsider we, as the audience, coukd follow him into this world. Also, because up until that point he had not seen him sexually. We knew he was gay and had seen him ward off advances but had never actually seen him as a sexual being For me too (and I have referenced this in a earlier post) I was unaware that seizures are a side effect of the HIV diagnisis. It's the quiet ones you've got to watch out for I actually disliked what they did during Colin's final moments. It became a very weird kind of 'whodunnit' moment where the mystery of who infected him became the focal point of his death scene instead of letting us grieve properly for his passing. They could've very easily revealed that earlier on when it was being discussed. It annoyed me as it took me out of the moment. Maybe it was done on purpose to lessen the misery of his passing, but it didn't work for me because I wanted to feel 'his' passing, not go 'ahhhh that's who he got it from' in the middle of it. The music playing over the scene (which they played over the next few scenes) was also dreadful. As I grew up during the era I think most of the horrors of the disease were covered fairly well in both And the Band Played On and Philadelphia so I knew most of that stuff already so nothing in this really shocked me I have to say. Yeah this was the one major scene that did not nail the tone for me (I think I mentioned it vaguely in my initial post without trying to overtly spoil anything) but yeah it totally dampened the impact of his death. One moment I'm sobbing and the next I'm like wait I recognise that woman, oh that's how he got it, what is this music? Just did not strike the right tone and honestly maybe would have been better to just not show how he got it and leave it up to the audience to decide like maybe he had a fling when he was young, maybe he was just private about his sex life etc. it's not like they didn't leave it ambiguous with other characters. |
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Post by londonpostie on Feb 16, 2021 23:57:59 GMT
What was the point of the Colin character if not to contrast with the main themes.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 0:07:24 GMT
It's the quiet ones you've got to watch out for I actually disliked what they did during Colin's final moments. It became a very weird kind of 'whodunnit' moment where the mystery of who infected him became the focal point of his death scene instead of letting us grieve properly for his passing. They could've very easily revealed that earlier on when it was being discussed. It annoyed me as it took me out of the moment. Maybe it was done on purpose to lessen the misery of his passing, but it didn't work for me because I wanted to feel 'his' passing, not go 'ahhhh that's who he got it from' in the middle of it. The music playing over the scene (which they played over the next few scenes) was also dreadful. As I grew up during the era I think most of the horrors of the disease were covered fairly well in both And the Band Played On and Philadelphia so I knew most of that stuff already so nothing in this really shocked me I have to say. Yeah this was the one major scene that did not nail the tone for me (I think I mentioned it vaguely in my initial post without trying to overtly spoil anything) but yeah it totally dampened the impact of his death. One moment I'm sobbing and the next I'm like wait I recognise that woman, oh that's how he got it, what is this music? Just did not strike the right tone and honestly maybe would have been better to just not show how he got it and leave it up to the audience to decide like maybe he had a fling when he was young, maybe he was just private about his sex life etc. it's not like they didn't leave it ambiguous with other characters. It had already been discussed in an earlier scene (by the room mates from memory) and it could've been revealed then or much earlier in his illness so it didn't destroy that moment. It was obviously meant to highlight closeted gays having it and passing it around, but it was very clumsily done. It was also weirdly 'sexual assaulty' which made it even weirder and showed his character in an oddly pathetic light which I didn't think was fair considering the situation. Urgh that music was just dire and so utterly inappropriate! The entire Stephen Fry storyline was also an utterly ridiculous way of getting those particular hypocrisies across. Tea pissing? Really? I found it's constant leaps into almost juvenile fantasy (has any gay man ever had sex the way his gay characters always seem to?) mixed with the horrific realities quite jarring and ill conceived. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 0:10:46 GMT
What was the point of the Colin character if not to contrast with the main themes. I didn't have a problem with his character, I had a problem with how they chose to tell his story. |
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Post by kathryn on Feb 17, 2021 9:07:38 GMT
I found it's constant leaps into almost juvenile fantasy (has any gay man ever had sex the way his gay characters always seem to?) mixed with the horrific realities quite jarring and ill conceived. [/quote]br] Uh, series written by a gay man based on the stories and experiences of his gay male friends, directed by a gay man and performed by an all-gay cast - I’m going with yeah, at least some gay men have had sex like that! It’s a sexually transmitted disease - the sex is really part and parcel of it. Not showing it would feel wrong. Colin’s story is there to represent the guys who contracted HIV the first and only time they had sex. Just through bad luck. Roscoe to represent the guys who had lots of sex with lots of people but were lucky enough to not have sex with anyone who had HIV and didn’t get infected. Quite surprised anyone thinks Colin’s encounter with the landlord’s son was assaulty, given all the looks we see them exchanging, and how they arranged to be alone together when the parents went out, it seemed obvious to me it was a planned encounter. We only had a glimpse of actual sex mid-act, most of the sequence was set-up. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 15:59:28 GMT
I found it's constant leaps into almost juvenile fantasy (has any gay man ever had sex the way his gay characters always seem to?) mixed with the horrific realities quite jarring and ill conceived. br] Uh, series written by a gay man based on the stories and experiences of his gay male friends, directed by a gay man and performed by an all-gay cast - I’m going with yeah, at least some gay men have had sex like that! I'm a 50 year old gay man and I have had a LOT of sex in my time and never once have I had sex in the way he portrayed it in either this or QAF. There was probably one sex scene in the whole of QAF UK (the American series got it right) that I found even remotely believable and there was none in this. Bob & Rose is probably the only series he has ever done which portrayed it realistically.
It is either portrayed as some frenzied almost violent momentary act or as an event so hysterical it's inspires laughing fits for all involved. Maybe I'm just a little odd I don't know (I have certainly never had any complaints and have managed to secure a man for 20 years) but I can assure you if I started laughing in someone's face while they were penetrating me or vice versa, they would probably either hit me, leave or call the nuthouse. It is not exactly the kind of moment that inspires laughter (after yes, during no ma'm) and most men don't usually find sex a laughing matter especially mid act. Maybe UK men are just atrocious lovers? I've never encountered that personally, but if this is the way Russell and everyone he knows has sex, maybe I just lucked out with a few good ones?
I expect to see it portrayed that way in porn because it looks good for the camera and the purpose it's intended for ...ahem... but in a serious drama it does not work for me and never has in any of his shows apart from Bob and Rose. This implies to me that he sees gay sex in one way and straight sex in another way and as someone who has had experienced both I think that is highly inaccurate portrayal which helps enforce negative stereotypes.
It’s a sexually transmitted disease - the sex is really part and parcel of it. Not showing it would feel wrong. I would like you to go back through all my posts in this thread and point out the one where I ever said or even implied they shouldn't show sex? But if you're going to show it, show it in a realistic way especially when it is such an integral part of the story.Colin’s story is there to represent the guys who contracted HIV the first and only time they had sex. Just through bad luck. Roscoe to represent the guys who had lots of sex with lots of people but were lucky enough to not have sex with anyone who had HIV and didn’t get infected. Thank you for pointing that out, I hadn't never worked that out by myself despite watching the whole series 3 times...
Quite surprised anyone thinks Colin’s encounter with the landlord’s son was assaulty, given all the looks we see them exchanging, and how they arranged to be alone together when the parents went out, it seemed obvious to me it was a planned encounter. We only had a glimpse of actual sex mid-act, most of the sequence was set-up. They are shown having sex 4 times and only the last 'flash' implies that Colin is getting any enjoyment out of it at all. The rest of the time it is like he is in great pain or being forced into performing the act. Yes these are quick flashes and there are coy glances (of the Benny Hill kind) from Colin, but the other guy seems to use him as some kind of meaningless lump of meat. Colin comes off as some kind of sad desperado who is willing to put up with whatever this guy will do to him just to get laid.
Now there is nothing wrong with that as that was probably exactly what was happening, but why show the character in that way as he taking his last breath? It could've been used to much greater effect earlier on in the story and been a meaningful moment instead of the answer to a Sherlock Holmes mystery and the final parting glance from the most liked character in the series.[/quote] I have replied within your post x |
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Post by karloscar on Feb 17, 2021 16:03:44 GMT
Colin's encounter with the landlady's son was hinted at from the moment they first clapped eyes on each other. It was subtle, but it was there. The way they handled the reveal was a bit like when Effie in Dreamgirls gets her Act One finale applause snatched away by The Dreams sudden appearance just before the curtain. A shock and totally unfair, but that's showbiz/life.
There is a plot similarity to My Night with Reg too, where quiet sexually repressed Guy ends up dead after a single loveless encounter with the title character, and nobody else knew anything about it.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 16:12:07 GMT
Colin's encounter with the landlady's son was hinted at from the moment they first clapped eyes on each other. It was subtle, but it was there. The way they handled the reveal was a bit like when Effie in Dreamgirls gets her Act One finale applause snatched away by The Dreams sudden appearance just before the curtain. A shock and totally unfair, but that's showbiz/life. There is a plot similarity to My Night with Reg too, where quiet sexually repressed Guy ends up dead after a single loveless encounter with the title character, and nobody else knew anything about it. Once of my mates got HIV from his first sexual encounter, I think it was probably a pretty common occurrence at the time. The fact he had gone to great lengths to be 'safe' made it even more of a shock. |
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Post by n1david on Feb 17, 2021 16:13:25 GMT
It is either portrayed as some frenzied almost violent momentary act or as an event so hysterical it's inspires laughing fits for all involved. Maybe I'm just a little odd I don't know (I have certainly never had any complaints and have managed to secure a man for 20 years) but I can assure you if I started laughing in someone's face while they were penetrating me or vice versa, they would probably either hit me, leave or call the nuthouse. It is not exactly the kind of moment that inspires laughter (after yes, during no ma'm) and most men don't usually find sex a laughing matter especially mid act. Maybe UK men are just atrocious lovers? I've never encountered that personally, but if this is the way Russell and everyone he knows has sex, maybe I just lucked out with a few good ones? Gosh I've certainly had my fair share of laughter before, during and after the act - after all, the whole thing is frankly a bit absurd and designed to be enjoyable. And I don't think that makes them, or me, "atrocious lovers". Maybe you shouldn't extrapolate your own experience to every gay man on the planet? Given the risk of being "hit" maybe I wouldn't laugh if I was having sex with you either... |
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Post by kathryn on Feb 17, 2021 16:22:00 GMT
intoanewlife I reckon there’s enough diversity of experience out there to be ok with the idea that someone may have laughed during sex at some point. It is surely not beyond the bounds of possibility. The point of the sequence is to show Ritchie’s growing confidence, growing experience, growing adventurousness with sex and just get across that it was joyous and fun for him. Obviously Colin’s experience was quite different with his one partner and sadly he never got the a chance to broaden it. I don’t quite see the problem with portraying both of those sets of experiences. It’s a TV show and not a documentary so of course it’s stylised to get across storytelling points to the audience. No-one is expecting it to be ‘real’.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 16:22:58 GMT
It is either portrayed as some frenzied almost violent momentary act or as an event so hysterical it's inspires laughing fits for all involved. Maybe I'm just a little odd I don't know (I have certainly never had any complaints and have managed to secure a man for 20 years) but I can assure you if I started laughing in someone's face while they were penetrating me or vice versa, they would probably either hit me, leave or call the nuthouse. It is not exactly the kind of moment that inspires laughter (after yes, during no ma'm) and most men don't usually find sex a laughing matter especially mid act. Maybe UK men are just atrocious lovers? I've never encountered that personally, but if this is the way Russell and everyone he knows has sex, maybe I just lucked out with a few good ones? Gosh I've certainly had my fair share of laughter before, during and after the act - after all, the whole thing is frankly a bit absurd and designed to be enjoyable. And I don't think that makes them, or me, "atrocious lovers". Maybe you shouldn't extrapolate your own experience to every gay man on the planet? Given the risk of being "hit" maybe I wouldn't laugh if I was having sex with you either... Nervous laughter during the odd awkward moment or mishap yes, not guffawing wildly through every sexual encounter as it was portrayed here. You wouldn't think it was slightly odd if you were having sex with someone and they started randomly laughing in your face? I said 'I' would think they would do that to me, not that I would do it to them. But thanks for twisting my words around to try and make me look bad, that seems to be a firm favourite with the members on this board  |
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Post by n1david on Feb 17, 2021 16:39:23 GMT
I said 'I' would think they would do that to me, not that I would do it to them. But thanks for twisting my words around to try and make me look bad, that seems to be a firm favourite with the members on this board I take that inference back, but what I will say is that I've never had sex with someone who I've been worried would hit me if I did the wrong thing. Or that would immediately leave or "call the nuthouse". Sure, it doesn't always go as planned, but even when one of us has done something unexpected, like "laughing in my face", it find it tends to provoke communication rather than an instinctive (possibly violent) reaction. Maybe that's what makes UK men "atrocious lovers" - that we aren't playing a role, we're just being ourselves. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 16:52:27 GMT
intoanewlife I reckon there’s enough diversity of experience out there to be ok with the idea that someone may have laughed during sex at some point. It is surely not beyond the bounds of possibility. Of course and there are some gay men who probably do have this as their only way of experiencing sex (not the laughing, the frenzy) for whatever reason. But it is how Russell always portrays it and by every character in his shows. Considering his work probably has the highest number of heterosexual viewers of any 'gay' work who will tune in simply because his name is on it, he does have a responsibility I think to portray it realistically especially in such a 'serious' series.The point of the sequence is to show Ritchie’s growing confidence, growing experience, growing adventurousness with sex and just get across that it was joyous and fun for him. Obviously Colin’s experience was quite different with his one partner and sadly he never got the a chance to broaden it. I know the point of the sequences...I don’t quite see the problem with portraying both of those sets of experiences. It’s a TV show and not a documentary so of course it’s stylised to get across storytelling points to the audience. No-one is expecting it to be ‘real’. Y'all are missing my point.Davis can do what he wants how he wants. He is an artist and if this is how he choses to portray stuff then that is his choice. I as a viewer (as did others) found the switching between the 2 moods jarring because one was shown in such an unbelievable fantastical way and the other was played with deadpan seriousness showing horrific things. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, I am just saying that to me I found the 'fun' aspect at odds with the serious stuff because they were done in completely different styles and then more often than not, haphazardly placed together.
I enjoyed the series a lot, I have watched it 3 times. These are actually very minor complaints that seem like a sh*tstorm when placed into word form.
It is just my opinion, no one HAS to agree with me. It just seems like anyone who has an opinion that differs from anyone else gets shouted down all the time and then it turns personal. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 17, 2021 17:10:02 GMT
I said 'I' would think they would do that to me, not that I would do it to them. But thanks for twisting my words around to try and make me look bad, that seems to be a firm favourite with the members on this board I take that inference back, but what I will say is that I've never had sex with someone who I've been worried would hit me if I did the wrong thing. Or that would immediately leave or "call the nuthouse". Sure, it doesn't always go as planned, but even when one of us has done something unexpected, like "laughing in my face", it find it tends to provoke communication rather than an instinctive (possibly violent) reaction. Maybe that's what makes UK men "atrocious lovers" - that we aren't playing a role, we're just being ourselves. So basically you took some kind of MASSIVE offence to my sarcastic reference that Davis's portrays UK gay men as bad in bed (despite the fact I said I had never personally experienced that) and are now just throwing sh*t at a wall hoping something will stick? It was not intended in a serious way, that was clearly implied by the ridiculousness of the statement. I was just saying I don't find the way Russell constantly portrays gay sex believable in any way and have never experienced sex the way he constantly shows it. Yes sex can be frenzied. Yes you sometimes laugh during it, but that is all he ever shows and there is a lot more to than that. What about showing a few of the moments that are routed in reality and are the reason most of us have sex in the first place? There were a couple of scenes in QAF that got this across, it was however missing completely from this series. |
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Post by dontdreamit on Feb 19, 2021 16:50:47 GMT
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Post by justfran on Feb 19, 2021 18:51:02 GMT
Enjoy the last episode tonight weekly watchers 😊
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Post by SuperTrooper on Feb 19, 2021 19:37:46 GMT
Enjoy the last episode tonight weekly watchers 😊 Looking forward to it but at the same time I don't want it to end! |
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