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Post by talkingheads on May 21, 2020 12:12:34 GMT
I don't want to go all Piers Morgan, but what exactly has the government done well? Changing their minds about their original approach. Having a lockdown, and getting legislation passed to enable it. Getting the reproduction rate of the virus down. Making funding available to support people who can't work. What do you think they've done badly and how would you have done it better, without the benefit of hindsight? Most of the criticism I've seen is people complaining that the government should have known months ago what we know now, or the government should support their preferred causes at the expense of everyone else, or that the government's message is muddled because they refuse to think for themselves and want the government to do it for them. *Having a lockdown (and a laughabley vague one at that) far too late and ignoring scientific evidence because Johnson couldn't be arsed to go to any Cobra meetings you mean? |
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 21, 2020 12:13:30 GMT
Apart from the stupidity of the initial approach that's resulted in us having ten times as many cases as we should have had, I think the government has actually done pretty well. The whole world is having to make it as as we go along, and at least in Britain we don't have to deal with politicians who are either denying that the disease exists or are acting as though it's all a scheme to bring down the government. Or boasting about how having more infections than anywhere else means "we're number one!" Having said that, I think heads should roll over the initial approach. The original assumption that we could build up natural herd immunity when nobody knew whether this disease was one where that could happen, along with the idea that the mortality rate among the healthy would be close enough to zero as makes no difference and all we had to do was "flatten the curve", plus the fact that the initial inaction was exactly the opposite of what was required to flatten the curve anyway, all suggest a staggering degree of incompetence that needs to be investigated. I don't want to go all Piers Morgan, but what exactly has the government done well? Very good at blaming scientists |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 21, 2020 12:15:09 GMT
I don't want to go all Piers Morgan, but what exactly has the government done well? Changing their minds about their original approach. Having a lockdown, and getting legislation passed to enable it. Getting the reproduction rate of the virus down. Making funding available to support people who can't work. What do you think they've done badly and how would you have done it better, without the benefit of hindsight? Most of the criticism I've seen is people complaining that the government should have known months ago what we know now, or the government should support their preferred causes at the expense of everyone else, or that the government's message is muddled because they refuse to think for themselves and want the government to do it for them. Wow. Measuring doing something well because they didn't kill 250,000 of us? |
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Post by n1david on May 21, 2020 12:31:35 GMT
What do you think they've done badly and how would you have done it better, without the benefit of hindsight? What I will never understand is the week-long phoney war, when we were told not to go out, not to go to the pub, not to socialise, to work from home on March 16th - but pubs, restaurants, theatres etc were not prohibited from opening and so many of them did, until the closure of social venues on March 20 and everything else on March 23. I don't understand the logic of that week, during which people continued to mix and socialise, including most infamously at the Cheltenham Gold Cup. Given that they thought the situation was so serious on March 16 that we were asked to avoid "non-essential travel", what was the point of that week - were they thinking that a full shutdown was avoidable if we all played nicely, despite the evidence from France and Italy? I stopped going out on the 16th, some of my friends did not. That initial "fuzziness' of the advice is still something I don't understand... and I didn't understand it at the time, which is why I didn't go out in that week. |
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Post by vdcni on May 21, 2020 12:50:08 GMT
Not denying science like Trump or Bolsonaro is a very low bar to set as a sign of doing well.
The ongoing PPE f*** ups - what was that mess with Turkey, the care home disasters, the slow testing regime, the chaos around test and tracing apps - going our own way for no good reason, ignoring the devolved governments, the mess around school re-openings - all that and the government refusing to accept any responsibility and the clear attempts to reframe it as the fault of the scientists.
There's a reason we're being considered globally as one of the countries that has really made a mess of this.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 21, 2020 12:54:40 GMT
The 16th to 23rd gap is becoming the next focus and battlefield.
Report today states ¾ of the deaths so far could have been avoided if we locked down a week earlier.
This seems quite large but as we have seen in other Countries a quick lockdown leads to a shortened the tail and less lost lives.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 15:21:59 GMT
I don't think I can bear this for much longer. There has got to be some hope together us through. If everything that makes life worth living is threatened with extinction, whats the point?
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 21, 2020 15:31:33 GMT
@abby there are an abundance of things that make life worth living.
This imposed change has reignited my passion for cycling, I have more time to play the guitar which I have neglected over the last few years and a good book is always a pleasure.
We will all be slightly different people when this is over, embrace the change and the person you are becoming.
Do I miss the Theatre and just sitting in a cafe or a bar, as one who saw at least 3 plays a week the answer is obviously yes, am I despondent, no.
Maybe it is because I am older and can reflect on how my interests have changed over the years and how I bear little resemblance to my 18 year old self that I can sit back and go with the flow.
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Post by Cleo on May 21, 2020 17:11:42 GMT
I totally agree with N1David - it was a fiasco and a terrible thing to do as businesses had food, staff etc to cover and for their customers it was not clear. My friend and I had a meal date on the Thursday which we cancelled. The lead up to lock down was frightening and chaotic.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 17:19:05 GMT
@abby there are an abundance of things that make life worth living. This imposed change has reignited my passion for cycling, I have more time to play the guitar which I have neglected over the last few years and a good book is always a pleasure. We will all be slightly different people when this is over, embrace the change and the person you are becoming. Do I miss the Theatre and just sitting in a cafe or a bar, as one who saw at least 3 plays a week the answer is obviously yes, am I despondent, no. Maybe it is because I am older and can reflect on how my interests have changed over the years and how I bear little resemblance to my 18 year old self that I can sit back and go with the flow. Nature, for me. I was out for a walk a couple of nights ago and was silently tracking a badger trundling down a main road. They've got poor eyesight but when I made the slightest noise it noticed me and ran off at an incredible speed, he (an older male) was off at a hell of a lick, it surprised me how quick they can go. Simpler things, slowing down, having a sleep pattern that makes me feel better, catching up on all those CDs and DVDs that I never got around to watching, learning new technology so that I can keep in touch with people, realising that there are other ways of living. |
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Post by talkingheads on May 21, 2020 17:21:48 GMT
I don't think I can bear this for much longer. There has got to be some hope together us through. If everything that makes life worth living is threatened with extinction, whats the point? I certainly agree with you to a certain extent. The idea of facing going back to work with zero social events to look forward to, and social distancing for everything else is awful. On the flipside, there are lots of positives. I'm reading more than ever, I'm listening to music I never had time for, actually being able to sit and listen to albums all the way through is glorious. There was a line Ronnie Barker says in Porridge that really resonates with me. "Little victories". Succesfully completing a task every day no matter how small or mundane helps to keep some semblance of routine and normality. |
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Post by londonpostie on May 21, 2020 17:36:08 GMT
I don't think I can bear this for much longer. There has got to be some hope together us through. If everything that makes life worth living is threatened with extinction, whats the point? Hey abby, what are you struggling with?
I've just been reading in the park which was pretty busy. Friends groups, family groups, lots of under 5s cycling around, people being very careful about a little distance but pretty much normal socialising with food and drink. You can enjoy all these things and still be following the rules 
Even the park cafe was open for not sitting dwn stuff.
Also popped in to the community garden and they've been sweating life crazy all afternoon getting tomato plants in.
A beautiful, life-affirming afternoon with random nature and people! There's loads to see and be involved in - everyone is so desperate to enjoy the outside.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 21, 2020 19:15:37 GMT
I don't want to go all Piers Morgan, but what exactly has the government done well? Changing their minds about their original approach. Having a lockdown, and getting legislation passed to enable it. Getting the reproduction rate of the virus down. Making funding available to support people who can't work. What do you think they've done badly and how would you have done it better, without the benefit of hindsight? Most of the criticism I've seen is people complaining that the government should have known months ago what we know now, or the government should support their preferred causes at the expense of everyone else, or that the government's message is muddled because they refuse to think for themselves and want the government to do it for them. I reckon this site answers that question pretty well. All of that I don't think you needed hindsight to do better appeasement.org/I have thought of a government success. Our hospitals were not over run. We did not get images on the news of people in hospital corridors and car parks. I know, I know we threw the elderly and in particular those in social care nursing homes under the proverbial bus but hey, still... the NHS was not over run. |
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Post by basdfg on May 21, 2020 20:56:55 GMT
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Post by basdfg on May 21, 2020 21:26:35 GMT
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Post by basdfg on May 22, 2020 10:12:16 GMT
Will the Government new 'Operation Defend' for production of key supplies be used to justify not protecting other jobs - with the idea that people in service industries made redundant can simply work in factories and others places linked the project instead. Afterall we have had ministers telling unemployed people to apply for fruit picking work.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 22, 2020 10:25:23 GMT
Took a long time to see the drive for a service led economy is not much use when you need tangible products.
A nation that cannot generate enough energy, produce enough food and manufacture key supplies is dependant on third parties in difficult times and even more so now as we are moving away from globalisation and towards protectionism.
The infrastructure to become a manufacturing focused economy will be a difficult and most probably a long one as we decimated the foundation in the 80’s.
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Post by distantcousin on May 22, 2020 10:57:40 GMT
The first socially distanced concert has now taken place. I really hate to be negative but it looks like the most depressing night out. I'd ratger they stayed off for longer until it's safe than this. Gigs are all about the social, the get together. At the very least relaxing. Whatever this is certainly doesn't qualify! I'd rather not bother. It's a depressing fascimile |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 22, 2020 15:16:07 GMT
Took a long time to see the drive for a service led economy is not much use when you need tangible products. A nation that cannot generate enough energy, produce enough food and manufacture key supplies is dependant on third parties in difficult times and even more so now as we are moving away from globalisation and towards protectionism. The infrastructure to become a manufacturing focused economy will be a difficult and most probably a long one as we decimated the foundation in the 80’s. Bloody Thatcher |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 22, 2020 15:17:37 GMT
Took a long time to see the drive for a service led economy is not much use when you need tangible products. A nation that cannot generate enough energy, produce enough food and manufacture key supplies is dependant on third parties in difficult times and even more so now as we are moving away from globalisation and towards protectionism. The infrastructure to become a manufacturing focused economy will be a difficult and most probably a long one as we decimated the foundation in the 80’s. Bloody Thatcher Saying that, she'd have been all over an authoritarian lockdown. She'd have had the army on the street, nobody would have dared leave the house. We'd have been South Korea |
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Post by basdfg on May 22, 2020 15:41:22 GMT
Theatres will re open in parts of Spain on Monday but only at 1/3 capacity. But not in it's biggest cities who are a stage further behind.
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Post by basdfg on May 22, 2020 16:05:44 GMT
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Post by basdfg on May 22, 2020 18:14:41 GMT
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Post by Jan on May 22, 2020 18:30:55 GMT
Saying that, she'd have been all over an authoritarian lockdown. She'd have had the army on the street, nobody would have dared leave the house. We'd have been South Korea The South Korea lockdown was much easier because society as a whole there is there is far more compliant (I have spent quite a bit of time there). The original modelling here, used to determine the lockdown date, assumed only 5 weeks of high levels of compliance would be possible, in fact we got a few weeks more than that before it started to widely break down. Austria have a 14 day quarantine too but if you have a medical certificate with a negative test result you don't have to do it - seems a more sensible approach. One fact to ponder, there isn't a country anywhere in the world that's seen a second peak after relaxing lockdown, including countries who lifted their lockdown 4 weeks ago. Why not ? |
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Post by basdfg on May 22, 2020 18:40:42 GMT
Saying that, she'd have been all over an authoritarian lockdown. She'd have had the army on the street, nobody would have dared leave the house. We'd have been South Korea The South Korea lockdown was much easier because society as a whole there is there is far more compliant (I have spent quite a bit of time there). The original modelling here, used to determine the lockdown date, assumed only 5 weeks of high levels of compliance would be possible, in fact we got a few weeks more than that before it started to widely break down. Austria have a 14 day quarantine too but if you have a medical certificate with a negative test result you don't have to do it - seems a more sensible approach. One fact to ponder, there isn't a country anywhere in the world that's seen a second peak after relaxing lockdown, including countries who lifted their lockdown 4 weeks ago. Why not ? While not a country one state in Argentina, Chaco, lifted restrictions on gatherings earlier than others and cases have not dropped much at all there from their high.
Mainly because everyone is still trying to avoid each other, wear masks and isolate if their have symptoms.
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