724 posts
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Post by basdfg on May 24, 2020 15:02:59 GMT
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 15:15:37 GMT
Well, if people are turning to make it about personality rather than politics I think the story everyone is missing is Cummings - imo - presents with very, very clear symptoms of neurodiversity. He is unable to operate, to function, in hierarchies, quite literally. Most of will have met people who appear cold or arrogant or unemotional or just plain harsh - in old money they might have been called 'the awkward squad' or contrary for te sake of it', etc - and Cummings demonstrates classic symptoms. He can no more change his personality than, say, his sexual preference. In fact, it looks as if he has never been assessed and is probably completely unaware - tools to help such people are still in their infancy, 5 years since giving half this stuff names. Atm, we understand as much about this as Victorian surgeons understood about heart surgery. Cummigs is a classic example of unassessed neurodiversity and like most of the rest of us is clueless why he 'comes across' as he does. He literally has no other way of being. People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis. |
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Post by talkingheads on May 24, 2020 15:28:23 GMT
Today's briefing will go down in history. It's already the case that whatever Johnson's decision, the Government is fundamentally weakened and all trust eroded.
But if he isn't sacked? I have no idea of the both social and political chaos that will ensue but it will be huge.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 15:29:16 GMT
Well, if people are turning to make it about personality rather than politics I think the story everyone is missing is Cummings - imo - presents with very, very clear symptoms of neurodiversity. He is unable to operate, to function, in hierarchies, quite literally. Most of will have met people who appear cold or arrogant or unemotional or just plain harsh - in old money they might have been called 'the awkward squad' or contrary for te sake of it', etc - and Cummings demonstrates classic symptoms. He can no more change his personality than, say, his sexual preference. In fact, it looks as if he has never been assessed and is probably completely unaware - tools to help such people are still in their infancy, 5 years since giving half this stuff names. Atm, we understand as much about this as Victorian surgeons understood about heart surgery. Cummigs is a classic example of unassessed neurodiversity and like most of the rest of us is clueless why he 'comes across' as he does. He literally has no other way of being. People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis. Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first. |
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 15:37:09 GMT
People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis. Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first. The man is a psychopath, clearly a very different thing to every other kind of 'brain' disorder. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 15:51:55 GMT
I love how the Internet allows diagnosis of any mental illness without the need to meet the patient, or even be a doctor.
Perhaps he's a psychopath. Perhaps he has some other mental illness. Perhaps he's just a bellend. It doesn't really matter. Whatever he is, that's an explanation. It's not an excuse.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 16:07:25 GMT
Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first. The man is a psychopath, clearly a very different thing to every other kind of 'brain' disorder. Again. Not necessarily a 'disorder'. Please watch your words. People with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society. The challenge is often the intolerance and bigotry of society not the 'fault' of their brains. And as The Matthew says - who are you to diagnose? |
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Post by talkingheads on May 24, 2020 16:14:03 GMT
So there we are then. Lockdown is over. He's chosen to back Cummimgs over 66 million people of this country. Absolutely apoplectic would be an understatement.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 16:20:39 GMT
The man is a psychopath, clearly a very different thing to every other kind of 'brain' disorder. Again. Not necessarily a 'disorder'. Please watch your words. People with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society. The challenge is often the intolerance and bigotry of society not the 'fault' of their brains. And as The Matthew says - who are you to diagnose? I am sorry that you took my words, attached your own meaning to them and got offended, but that was not my intention and has nothing to do with what I wrote. I did not mention autism so why would you even make the leap? I can not control YOUR reaction to my words, that is up to you to do. Yes 'people with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society', but not ALL mental disorders deserve our empathy. Some people are completely aware of their disorders and use them gleefully to their own advantage to destroy people for sh*ts and giggles. Do I have empathy for these people because of their condition, yes I do, I can't even imagine having to live life the way they do. But that empathy does not extend to their actions and the flagrant disregard they have for people who share their space. I 'diagnose' based on people's actions because I am very aware of the symptoms of said disorder. The fact that someone doesn't want it to be true and live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance because they cast a vote to put that person into a position of power, is their problem not mine. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 16:26:11 GMT
I doubt there will be many who look at the way Cummings is being vilified by pretty much everyone and take away from it the message that it's OK to do the same. |
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4,806 posts
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Post by Mark on May 24, 2020 16:30:55 GMT
What a disaster. Lockdown might as well be over.
Peoples livelihoods in shatters and a senior government adviser not held to account.
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 24, 2020 16:33:51 GMT
We seem to have gone off on a tangent.
The only ones with a mental disorder are the ones who believed and trusted a Governments duty Is to protect us from harm.
Anyone who lost a loved one they did not visit as they believed in the lockdown and its aim to protect us from their position are being treated as fools.
A dark day in U.K. Politics, this cannot and will not be the end, the voices of the dead must and will become tumultuous.
Addendum: We have now moved on from common sense to instinct as the core of our containment strategy. My instinct says that I am unlikely to die from Coronavirus so I should just say sod you to the ones who could so I can get my life back, my morals and values would never countenance this and hope it is true for the majority.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 16:40:54 GMT
The only ones with a mental disorder are the ones who believed and trusted a Governments duty Is to protect us from harm. I don't agree with this. Good people have been brainwashed into a certain mindset by a bunch of truly horrible people. Once there they can be manipulated very easily. People who are brainwashed have no idea they are brainwashed, that is what is so insidious about the process. |
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1,972 posts
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Post by sf on May 24, 2020 16:56:03 GMT
A car crash, and deeply insulting to the millions of people across the country who have bent over backwards to live their lives within the rules, often at considerable difficulty. I know people who haven't been able to attend funerals, people who haven't been able to see seriously ill relatives since all of this began, people who haven't been able to visit dying parents in hospital, people who have been stuck in their homes with no respite looking after a partner who needs round-the-clock care - and not only does Cummings trample all over the rules, but the entirely predictable and entirely justifiable public outcry prompts the Prime Minister to appear on television to condescendingly inform us all that Cummings acted responsibly when he broke the rules the rest of us have been doing our best to follow.
Every time I think Johnson can't sink any lower, he finds a way to prove me wrong.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 17:00:23 GMT
Again. Not necessarily a 'disorder'. Please watch your words. People with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society. The challenge is often the intolerance and bigotry of society not the 'fault' of their brains. And as The Matthew says - who are you to diagnose? I am sorry that you took my words, attached your own meaning to them and got offended, but that was not my intention and has nothing to do with what I wrote. I did not mention autism so why would you even make the leap? I can not control YOUR reaction to my words, that is up to you to do. Yes 'people with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society', but not ALL mental disorders deserve our empathy. Some people are completely aware of their disorders and use them gleefully to their own advantage to destroy people for sh*ts and giggles. Do I have empathy for these people because of their condition, yes I do, I can't even imagine having to live life the way they do. But that empathy does not extend to their actions and the flagrant disregard they have for people who share their space. I 'diagnose' based on people's actions because I am very aware of the symptoms of said disorder. The fact that someone doesn't want it to be true and live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance because they cast a vote to put that person into a position of power, is their problem not mine. You need to read LondonPosties post that you quoted. His description was very good at describing neurodiversity - that’s not a disorder it’s diversity. You then use that to talk about broken minds. For the record I am a socialist and have never voted Tory in my life. And, like everyone else, did not vote for Cummings. However he has managed to be very successful and, I believe, part of his success is to be able to think differently that “the herd”. I believe that neurodiversity is a hugely beneficial thing to society even if I don’t agree with a particular neurodiverse person. I abhor intolerance. There is absolutely no reason why a neurodiverse person shouldn’t advise or even run a country. I suspect a large proportion of leaders are in fact neurodiverse. I also agree that if they mess up then they should go. Cummings should resign. However it’s not because he has a broken mind but because he f€$%~d up. |
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Post by xanady on May 24, 2020 17:01:11 GMT
BJ failed to answer any media questions...kept repeating same mantra...very stressed body language.He wanted to bury this story but instead this is now an open wound.A massive moment of ill-judgement imo.Twitter is totally united in condemning the PM’s response.Extraordinary.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 17:03:07 GMT
Elect a clown, expect a circus.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 17:05:09 GMT
I think we can call a truce. We agree. People like Cummings deserve our empathy but cannot use their mindset as an excuse when they make a balls up. Peace?
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77 posts
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Post by adolphus on May 24, 2020 17:07:38 GMT
With regards to schools reopening I'm sure many parents will intrepret the rules a la Cummings and defy the government. They'll feel they're acting in the best interests of their kids
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19,793 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 24, 2020 17:09:40 GMT
I do hope that Mr Cummings and his family are grateful for the support they’re getting from the government. He should be kissing BJ’s backside big time for a long time to come. No matter what dirt DC might have on people in the Conservative party it has to be even-stevens now.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 17:39:59 GMT
I am sorry that you took my words, attached your own meaning to them and got offended, but that was not my intention and has nothing to do with what I wrote. I did not mention autism so why would you even make the leap? I can not control YOUR reaction to my words, that is up to you to do. Yes 'people with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society', but not ALL mental disorders deserve our empathy. Some people are completely aware of their disorders and use them gleefully to their own advantage to destroy people for sh*ts and giggles. Do I have empathy for these people because of their condition, yes I do, I can't even imagine having to live life the way they do. But that empathy does not extend to their actions and the flagrant disregard they have for people who share their space. I 'diagnose' based on people's actions because I am very aware of the symptoms of said disorder. The fact that someone doesn't want it to be true and live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance because they cast a vote to put that person into a position of power, is their problem not mine. You need to read LondonPosties post that you quoted. His description was very good at describing neurodiversity - that’s not a disorder it’s diversity. You then use that to talk about broken minds. For the record I am a socialist and have never voted Tory in my life. And, like everyone else, did not vote for Cummings. However he has managed to be very successful and, I believe, part of his success is to be able to think differently that “the herd”. I believe that neurodiversity is a hugely beneficial thing to society even if I don’t agree with a particular neurodiverse person. I abhor intolerance. There is absolutely no reason why a neurodiverse person shouldn’t advise or even run a country. I suspect a large proportion of leaders are in fact neurodiverse. I also agree that if they mess up then they should go. Cummings should resign. However it’s not because he has a broken mind but because he f€$%~d up. Your desire to prove your 'intolerance to discrimination' seems to be clouding your judgement to the fact that some people are just 'bad'. By your theory the fact that America, the UK, Russia and Brazil have the highest rates of Covid deaths is mere coincidence despite the fact that they are all currently being run by 'neurodiverse' people. People who are incapable of empathy should not be running a raffle let alone a country. |
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Post by londonpostie on May 24, 2020 18:13:25 GMT
People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis. Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first.
There is a lot of ignorance.
From what i've seen I'm pretty convinced neurodiversity may well be responsible for everything from discovering fire to walking out of Africa - the human species hasn't progressed by people pussy-footing around in polite hierarchies. It has needed 'difference' in thinking and difference in behaviours. I tend to think Issac Newton seems a classic example, but we will never know.
Without it, I suspect we'd all be sitting around in mud huts in the Rift Valley scratching our arses.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 18:38:24 GMT
Without it, I suspect we'd all be sitting around in mud huts in the Rift Valley scratching our arses. That seems like an attractive idea right now, assuming by "our" you mean individually rather than some sort of group bonding exercise. |
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Post by londonpostie on May 24, 2020 18:43:30 GMT
well! I don't know what kind of parties you've been to ...
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 24, 2020 18:56:14 GMT
A key member of the SPI-B, the Government advisory group on behavioural science Stephen Reicher backed by 3 of his fellow colleagues has said the following
I can say that in a few short minutes tonight, Boris Johnson has trashed all the advice we have given on how to build trust and secure adherence to the measures necessary to control COVID-19.
Be open and honest, we said. Trashed.
Respect the public, we said. Trashed
Ensure equity, so everyone is treated the same, we said. Trashed.
Be consistent we said. Trashed.
Make clear 'we are all in it together'. Trashed.
It is very hard to provide scientific advice to a government which doesn't want to listen to science. I hope, however, that the public will read our papers (publicly available at gov.uk/government/gro…) and continue to make up for this bad government with their own good sense.
Following the science?
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