4,179 posts
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jan 25, 2022 11:35:14 GMT
I understand that the parliamentary party can trigger a no confidence vote but what about the opposition? They can trigger another vote of the whole house of commons? I know we went through all this with Theresa May but I can't remember how all that happened.
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5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 25, 2022 11:44:00 GMT
Our greatest ever Prime Minister Winston Churchill said ‘the opposition sit opposite you, your enemy sit behind you.’ Theresa May became Prime Minister unopposed, had a confidence vote and won it, which meant her position as Prime Minister was secure for a whole year, in 2 months it all ended up in tears and she was gone. A lot of people say about Margaret Thatcher being stabbed in the back she wasn’t, she was stabbed in the front. Boris is/was popular with the electored (you decide), he is/was popular with members of the wider Conservative Party (you decide) however he is detested in parliament (I decided) they cannot wait to depose him, if they can, That wallpaper and parties comes across as arrogance and could be fatal, we will see over the coming weeks. That bubbling buffoonery that is actually all put on, that endears the public to him but when people get hit in the pockets and struggling to pay bills and unemployment goes up, actually will rile people instead. We have to wait and see what happens. Is Winston Churchill our greatest ever leader? Saying with a heavy heart, but he did lead us through the WW2. If we lost that there would have been no NHS or Clement Attlee. |
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2,340 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 25, 2022 12:18:28 GMT
Is Winston Churchill our greatest ever leader? Saying with a heavy heart, but he did lead us through the WW2. If we lost that there would have been no NHS or Clement Attlee. Why not Lloyd George? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 12:26:18 GMT
Is Winston Churchill our greatest ever leader? I'd probably have gone for Attlee, but it's a subjective judgement. Ironically both were deposed after their greatest achivements. Churchill got lots of things wrong but he got the major things right. Also he was warning about the Reich years before others and if people had listened then history may have been changed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 12:39:15 GMT
I understand that the parliamentary party can trigger a no confidence vote but what about the opposition? They can trigger another vote of the whole house of commons? I know we went through all this with Theresa May but I can't remember how all that happen ed. The Opposition can call a vote of confidence in the Government which if lost did in effect trigger an election ( Jim Callaghan March 1979). But as the Tories have a majority this wouldn't get passed. This is still in place. The Conservative Party if 15 per cent of their MPs submit a letter of No Confidence in the leader (regardless of if he or she is PM I think) then triggers a leadership election. Mrs May didn't come to such a vote with her party. She resigned as or announced she would stand down as Party Leader but carried on as PM whilst leadership election took place. Boris was elected leader and thus became PM as the Tories were in power. If Boris took his ball and went home resigning as PM like other ministers resign then I guess Dominic Rabb as deputy PM takes over as an interim PM. If he declined to do so then it becomes very murky. |
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 25, 2022 12:43:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 12:46:04 GMT
Our greatest ever Prime Minister Winston Churchill said ‘the opposition sit opposite you, your enemy sit behind you.’ Theresa May became Prime Minister unopposed, had a confidence vote and won it, which meant her position as Prime Minister was secure for a whole year, in 2 months it all ended up in tears and she was gone. A lot of people say about Margaret Thatcher being stabbed in the back she wasn’t, she was stabbed in the front. Boris is/was popular with the electored (you decide), he is/was popular with members of the wider Conservative Party (you decide) however he is detested in parliament (I decided) they cannot wait to depose him, if they can, That wallpaper and parties comes across as arrogance and could be fatal, we will see over the coming weeks. That bubbling buffoonery that is actually all put on, that endears the public to him but when people get hit in the pockets and struggling to pay bills and unemployment goes up, actually will rile people instead. We have to wait and see what happens. Boris seems to be popular with the working class Tory or the same faction who voted Maggie into power in 79 or who swapped to Tony Blaur in 1997. The aspirational person on the street who may live in a marginal seat and can switch votes. The location of these people change across the years but it is the same core swing voters. The Tories and Socialists have their broad 20 to 25% hard core support who support their part whatever. Other smaller parties have their core support. But winning an election is appealing to that 30 odd percent of swing voters. Boris has local support in the Tory membership but I do think the more traditional older shire seat Tory member might not be that keen on him thinking him unkempt and a buffoon. I'm generalising here but the retired Colonel and Wife chair of the local WI type if you want to stereotype them. |
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jan 25, 2022 14:36:29 GMT
The Met were bought into the investigation as the evidence gathered indicated criminal activity which only the Police can determine.
Whether a fine or imprisonment Gray has suspicion of an offence being committed and certain conditions are satisfied indicating the Prime Ministers office engaged in criminal activity.
Bringing in the Met means that the conclusion of Gray’s report is known and that in her opinion the events broke the law, we may not know the details but we do know the conclusion.
Johnson is now in the unenviable position of being accused of breaking the law and misleading Parliament.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 16:05:16 GMT
The Met were bought into the investigation as the evidence gathered indicated criminal activity which only the Police can determine. Whether a fine or imprisonment Gray has suspicion of an offence being committed and certain conditions are satisfied indicating the Prime Ministers office engaged in criminal activity. Bringing in the Met means that the conclusion of Gray’s report is known and that in her opinion the events broke the law, we may not know the details but we do know the conclusion. Johnson is now in the unenviable position of being accused of breaking the law and misleading Parliament. So Sue Gray passes her report to the police but not Parliament, Government, Cabinet. I would guess the Cabinet Secretary would see it. Or does the police deciding to get involved superceed her report so she cannot publish it as it might influence any court action? |
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5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 25, 2022 21:33:03 GMT
Our greatest ever Prime Minister Winston Churchill said ‘the opposition sit opposite you, your enemy sit behind you.’ Theresa May became Prime Minister unopposed, had a confidence vote and won it, which meant her position as Prime Minister was secure for a whole year, in 2 months it all ended up in tears and she was gone. A lot of people say about Margaret Thatcher being stabbed in the back she wasn’t, she was stabbed in the front. Boris is/was popular with the electored (you decide), he is/was popular with members of the wider Conservative Party (you decide) however he is detested in parliament (I decided) they cannot wait to depose him, if they can, That wallpaper and parties comes across as arrogance and could be fatal, we will see over the coming weeks. That bubbling buffoonery that is actually all put on, that endears the public to him but when people get hit in the pockets and struggling to pay bills and unemployment goes up, actually will rile people instead. We have to wait and see what happens. Boris seems to be popular with the working class Tory or the same faction who voted Maggie into power in 79 or who swapped to Tony Blaur in 1997. The aspirational person on the street who may live in a marginal seat and can switch votes. The location of these people change across the years but it is the same core swing voters. The Tories and Socialists have their broad 20 to 25% hard core support who support their part whatever. Other smaller parties have their core support. But winning an election is appealing to that 30 odd percent of swing voters. Boris has local support in the Tory membership but I do think the more traditional older shire seat Tory member might not be that keen on him thinking him unkempt and a buffoon. I'm generalising here but the retired Colonel and Wife chair of the local WI type if you want to stereotype them. Was popular I wouldn’t disagree with that one. But listening to LBC last night a caller rung in to defend Boris and then went on to claim that all the left wing press are against him (The Sun, yeah you heard right) and now his mates who were ardent Boris fans are against Boris. Boris will always be popular with the ardent Brexiters, he made their fantasy come true, didn’t he, they will always will have his back! But they won’t win him a General Election. The first nail in his coffin, was to change the law to protect his mate Owen Paterson, he could of sat out his suspension, all would have been forgotten, which was the equivalent of 5 yellow cards in football, but that failure triggered a by-election, which was one of the biggest swings ever in a by-election, then the wallpaper £850 a roll and now the parties. The fair weather voter abhor double standards, as it is not ‘British.’ There have been more parties, as when Boris got asked the question if there were anymore, he answered the question by pointing out his success his successes, he certainly didn’t answer the question. If there was a confidence vote triggered he wouldn’t win it, he has his sycophants such as Peter Bone, Nadine Dorries and hapless and hopeless Jacob Reece-Mogg, but many want him gone, he served his purpose to get Brexit done, now close the door behind you. Graham Brady chairman of the powerful 1922 committee could be sitting on one letter, or it could be possible he may have 63 letters. I can see a cabinet reshuffle happening soon, but who will be doing it is anyone’s guess. |
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311 posts
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Post by olliebean on Jan 26, 2022 9:32:21 GMT
The Met were bought into the investigation as the evidence gathered indicated criminal activity which only the Police can determine. Whether a fine or imprisonment Gray has suspicion of an offence being committed and certain conditions are satisfied indicating the Prime Ministers office engaged in criminal activity. Bringing in the Met means that the conclusion of Gray’s report is known and that in her opinion the events broke the law, we may not know the details but we do know the conclusion. Johnson is now in the unenviable position of being accused of breaking the law and misleading Parliament. So Sue Gray passes her report to the police but not Parliament, Government, Cabinet. I would guess the Cabinet Secretary would see it. Or does the police deciding to get involved superceed her report so she cannot publish it as it might influence any court action? Much as Johnson might like this to be the case, the police have been very clear that they see no reason why the report cannot be published. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2022 10:13:18 GMT
So Sue Gray passes her report to the police but not Parliament, Government, Cabinet. I would guess the Cabinet Secretary would see it. Or does the police deciding to get involved superceed her report so she cannot publish it as it might influence any court action? Much as Johnson might like this to be the case, the police have been very clear that they see no reason why the report cannot be published. I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase "I pay your wages" has been used. |
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311 posts
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Post by olliebean on Jan 26, 2022 11:27:48 GMT
Much as Johnson might like this to be the case, the police have been very clear that they see no reason why the report cannot be published. I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase "I pay your wages" has been used. Hmm. If it has, I rather hope the reply was "No you don't, the taxpayers do. And they pay yours as well." |
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19,793 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 27, 2022 11:26:13 GMT
This is what I imagine Sue Gray to look like…  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 15:39:29 GMT
The thought that JRM would see Boris as anything more than to be used as a means to an end would surprise me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2022 16:32:53 GMT
Unsurprisingly, Johnson's response to the Gray report is basically "I will do everything in my power to make sure that the scapegoats are found".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2022 20:10:57 GMT
Unsurprisingly, Johnson's response to the Gray report is basically "I will do everything in my power to make sure that the scapegoats are found". Look in the mirror or across the dinning table. Andrew Mitchell a long serving Tory MP in a true blue seat saying he has lost support for Boris could be a good indicator of the Tory grassroots feelings. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 12:15:15 GMT
I know Andrew Mitchell is but one MP and had all that Downing Street fiasco with the police about a decade back but he is an MP with over 30 years experience and Sutton Coldfield which is the next consticuency to where is about as strong a Tory seat as you can get so I'd think their party membership would be a pretty good cross section of the upper middle class traditional Tory voters so that is why I found that significant.
Also the consitency I live in has a by-election next month after the death of Jack Dromey last month so we may have the national spotlight on us then. Seat has been Labour since at least 1945 and the nearest it came to going blue was in 1983 when majority was cut to only 200. But Mr Dromey had a 3.5k majority last time so I can see seat staying red.
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594 posts
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Post by og on Feb 1, 2022 12:55:44 GMT
Johnson has drawn this out excruciatingly and made this far worse than it needed to be all in pursuit of saving face.
If months ago when word started to break, like any normal human, he'd put his hands up there and then shown admission and remorse, this could have been far less of an issue than it is. The government would then all be able to do their jobs now, focus on the catastrophic energy crisis, respond and assist in dialogue with the Russian/Ukrainian situation and be looking to fix some of the glaring issues with the NHS, look at addressing the looming care crisis, the housing market, perhaps even spend some time considering the future of the country rather than the present. But he's a self absorbed monster lacking accountability and many other qualities that make a human humane.
The most frustrating part of this whole debacle is that whilst it's distracting everyone and causing such a ruckus (rightly so) nothing will happen. He'll get away scott free and it'll all blow over.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 15:15:04 GMT
If the stories about May 2020 had come out around the time of Barnard Castle then they would have all been blown over. But now we have politicians taking cheap jibes at each other and the Speaker having to act like a frustrated Headmaster.
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Feb 4, 2022 14:19:49 GMT
one of those rants that is difficult to argue against
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5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 4, 2022 22:49:08 GMT
Looks like big dog is whimpering in a corner in need of a brush. This week just hasn’t got any better for the prime minister. With the redacted Sue Gray’s report coming out on Monday, where the PM had a disaster in the Commons and stooped so low to use a heinous sex offender. Then off to Ukraine where he was presented with a birthday cake and the media claims he is controlled by the heel of Carrie. 3 MPs send in letters to the 1922 committee on Wednesday. 5 Downing Street (most important) ones resign/jump ship. All those will have Dominic Cummins on speed dial. Good news finally the Conservatives win the Southend West by-election. 1 MP sends letter today. Expolosive serialisation coming out in the Mail on Sunday from Lord Ashcroft www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10478351/Carrie-Johnson-blamed-Downing-Street-chaos-Tory-peers-bombshell-book.htmlPerhaps a theatre board poll should be started who will be the next Prime Minister. |
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Post by karloscar on Feb 5, 2022 11:12:02 GMT
Liz Truss being ripped to shreds by Russia for her stupidity when it comes to geography and history (and every other subject to be honest) should ideally put her leadership hopes in the non-recyclables, but hey, the Tory party hates an intellectual so it may have the opposite effect.
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Post by talkingheads on Feb 6, 2022 10:58:11 GMT
Is there any way to appeal Sunak's £200 energy bill loan he's forcing on us? I don't need it and I certainly will not be forced into debt, which I thought was illegal anyway.
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594 posts
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Post by og on Feb 6, 2022 11:05:05 GMT
Is there any way to appeal Sunak's £200 energy bill loan he's forcing on us? I don't need it and I certainly will not be forced into debt, which I thought was illegal anyway. I thought it was only for those on council tax support schemes. Stick it in a savings pot? Maybe its a political tactic, call it a loan then at the 11th hour (when they're struggling and need some points) they'll wipe off the debt for everyone and become heros. |
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