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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 7:27:25 GMT
Well as I'm not likely to be vaccinated until September at the earliest that's my hopes of going to summer shows knackered then. If it's a legal requirement then tests should be made either free or cheap. Also I can only assume then that only the vaccinated/those who undergo compulsory testing will be allowed into pubs when they reopen? Thought not. Don't forget this is just one line of thought from PM, and he's had many over the past year. He spoke quite noncommittally about it too. Vaccine passports have been ruled out so won't play a part in leisure. I'm as much against pubs getting a hospital pass as you are, but compared to nightclubs and theatre's pubs are less risky. Pubs can be effectively managed and patrons spaced out, theatre's inherently are less spacious (cramped) and in order to be financially viable, they need to run at their normal pre-pandemic capacity. Think about interval toilet queues, etc. There's no way they'll be able get 1500 people to relieve themselves in the tiny theatre toilets within 15 minutes using social distancing. So there's going to have to be an effective policy in place to make it sustainable and safe. We'll get back there one day. Just look for alternatives for now, outdoor theatre and events is one way forward to get your fix over the summer, fingers crossed we get weather like last year.
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Post by jojo on Feb 16, 2021 9:02:14 GMT
They'll need to do quite a lot of the population. This isn't the sort of vaccine that makes you immune. All it does is give you a head start in fighting off the disease. If the vaccine gives 80% protection to the vulnerable but relaxing restrictions makes infection 10 times more common among everyone else then the vulnerable will face twice the risk. I think that's under-selling the vaccines. Most people who have two doses and waited the extra couple of weeks will be 'immune' from the current strains of the virus. A portion won't be fully immune, but it does seem as if the minority who aren't immune will still get decent protection. New strains may reduce the proportion who are immune, and the level of protection, which is why it's important we reduce the overall incidence of disease, because new strains only appear in infected people. And of course no one person can be sure whether they are part of the 10% of people who don't get full immunity from the vaccine, so everyone needs to stay careful until there is herd immunity. That's before we mention whether or not an 'immune' person can still transmit the disease. It's likely transmission will be substantially reduced, but we need to see a lot more real world data before they can make meaningful predictions. That's not actually that different from other vaccines, but this is the first time that we've had this level of national debate on the efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines, and the first time in a long time that we've been trying to create herd immunity from scratch while a virus is prevalent in the community. A one in ten chance of not being immune is worth considering when 1 in 100 people have a virus, but practically irrelevant when it's 1 in 10,000,000. I had my rubella vaccine as a teenager, and no-one bothered to explain that it's just 95% effective, presumably because enough people have the vaccine to mean that there is hardly any German Measles in the population these days. It's still a notifiable disease, which means if you get it your GP is required by law to tell public health officials so they can take action if there is an outbreak.
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Post by properjob on Feb 16, 2021 17:56:14 GMT
I'm as much against pubs getting a hospital pass as you are, but compared to nightclubs and theatre's pubs are less risky. Pubs can be effectively managed and patrons spaced out, theatre's inherently are less spacious (cramped) and in order to be financially viable, they need to run at their normal pre-pandemic capacity. Think about interval toilet queues, etc. There's no way they'll be able get 1500 people to relieve themselves in the tiny theatre toilets within 15 minutes using social distancing. So there's going to have to be an effective policy in place to make it sustainable and safe. We'll get back there one day. Just look for alternatives for now, outdoor theatre and events is one way forward to get your fix over the summer, fingers crossed we get weather like last year. Most socially distanced shows I went to didn't have an interval (and therfore had to be short) to avoid this problem. I don't agree pubs are safer that theatres as pubs are much more likely to be filled with drunk people who don't socially distance. The theatres I went to had ushers watching the audience like hawks and were properly enforcing the rules. Pubs that act as restaurants might be OK but I will be very cross if pubs that are just drinking dens can open before other entertainment venues. A no alcohol without meals rules (and scotch eggs definitely don't count) would be sensible.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 18:17:36 GMT
I don't agree pubs are safer that theatres as pubs are much more likely to be filled with drunk people who don't socially distance. Depends on the pub. All the pubs I go to are restaurants in everything but name: they were pretty distanced before all this started, and with the greater spacing they were using over the summer they were probably the safest indoor public spaces I know.
But then there's the likes of Wetherspoon's, which are at heart places to get drunk on the cheap so you can forget how characterless they are. The boss of Wetherspoon's has been complaining that if pubs don't open soon it could lead to unemployment for staff. That's a surprising concern to express, considering that last year he wanted nothing to do with the furlough scheme and said that if his staff wanted money they could go work in a supermarket.
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 16, 2021 19:03:42 GMT
I'm as much against pubs getting a hospital pass as you are, but compared to nightclubs and theatre's pubs are less risky. Pubs can be effectively managed and patrons spaced out, theatre's inherently are less spacious (cramped) and in order to be financially viable, they need to run at their normal pre-pandemic capacity. Think about interval toilet queues, etc. There's no way they'll be able get 1500 people to relieve themselves in the tiny theatre toilets within 15 minutes using social distancing. So there's going to have to be an effective policy in place to make it sustainable and safe. We'll get back there one day. Just look for alternatives for now, outdoor theatre and events is one way forward to get your fix over the summer, fingers crossed we get weather like last year. Most socially distanced shows I went to didn't have an interval (and therfore had to be short) to avoid this problem. You've still got most people going before & after the show though. When I went to Regent's Park at the end of August (the only time I've been to theatre under socially distanced conditions) it felt very safe in the auditorium but people weren't keeping a 2m distance while queuing for the loos & unless you're at the start of the queue you have to go into a cubicle straight after someone else has left it. Fortunately as the OAT's loos are partially open-air there was that mitigation but many WE theatres have loos that don't have any windows or air con, which seems very problematic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 7:59:44 GMT
I'm as much against pubs getting a hospital pass as you are, but compared to nightclubs and theatre's pubs are less risky. Pubs can be effectively managed and patrons spaced out, theatre's inherently are less spacious (cramped) and in order to be financially viable, they need to run at their normal pre-pandemic capacity. Think about interval toilet queues, etc. There's no way they'll be able get 1500 people to relieve themselves in the tiny theatre toilets within 15 minutes using social distancing. So there's going to have to be an effective policy in place to make it sustainable and safe. We'll get back there one day. Just look for alternatives for now, outdoor theatre and events is one way forward to get your fix over the summer, fingers crossed we get weather like last year. Most socially distanced shows I went to didn't have an interval (and therfore had to be short) to avoid this problem. I don't agree pubs are safer that theatres as pubs are much more likely to be filled with drunk people who don't socially distance. The theatres I went to had ushers watching the audience like hawks and were properly enforcing the rules. Pubs that act as restaurants might be OK but I will be very cross if pubs that are just drinking dens can open before other entertainment venues. A no alcohol without meals rules (and scotch eggs definitely don't count) would be sensible. Point being, most socially distanced shows were run at a break even or loss, it's been proven not to be financially sustainable, so to get theatres running back at full capacity there needs to be something more effective than just social distancing in place. 100 people in a pub (generous) vs 1500 in a theatre - the chances of being in an enclosed space for a greater incubation period with someone cov+ is inherently much higher in a theatre. Pubs can limit their capacity much more effectively in a far greater financially viable way than theatres, so they are bound to be open first.
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Post by theatreian on Feb 17, 2021 10:23:13 GMT
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Post by marob on Feb 17, 2021 11:29:54 GMT
I always wonder how effective stuff like this is, especially as my local council repaved a couple of the shopping streets claiming it would bring more visitors to the town. When I used to be able to visit London, the only times I ever used to go to Oxford Street was to visit HMV. Is it particularly cluttered? I don’t remember it being one of those streets with loads of flowerbeds or benches. Widening the pavements would help the congestion, but would they not be better off just pedestrianising a section of it? Very intrigued by the “giant” hill at Marble Arch idea.
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Post by TallPaul on Feb 17, 2021 11:51:47 GMT
It seems like only yesterday that Westminster City Council blocked plans to pedestrianise Oxford Street: www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-44405730I doubt I'll be going out of my way to climb a 'hill'. Around here, 25 metres wouldn't even qualify as a hillock! 🙂
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 17, 2021 11:52:09 GMT
Multiple folk have tried with Oxford St over the years. I favour pedestrianisation, terminating buses at both end of the street.
I also favour pedestrianisation of Old Compton St but Mizhog Westminster Council says it would lead to a rise in crime *coughs* homophobia!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 11:54:11 GMT
There were grand plans for Oxford Street three years ago, proposed by the mayor, but the people who live and work there hadn't been consulted and the general reception by the public was that the concept would be a disaster for businesses and residents alike. The proposal was to pedestrianise it, but the locals objected because it would drive all the traffic on to surrounding roads that were less able to cope and it would make it harder for people and deliveries to get in and out.
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Post by talkingheads on Feb 17, 2021 17:08:59 GMT
Great article from What's On Stage:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 22:03:20 GMT
Great article from What's On Stage: Totally behind the message in this blog but my word, you can tell the COO wrote it and no editor was allowed within 50 paces of it. She could have said all that in about three paragraphs and probably more effectively too!
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Post by theatreian on Feb 18, 2021 13:47:34 GMT
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Post by theatreian on Feb 18, 2021 23:09:07 GMT
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 19, 2021 15:26:08 GMT
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Post by zahidf on Feb 19, 2021 19:09:47 GMT
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Post by Mark on Feb 19, 2021 20:52:53 GMT
Good in theory but this line “ But for nightclubs and theatres, a five minute test conducted on entrance could now be viable with the new technology.” This doesn’t work..... Let’s say you’re queuing for a nightclub/theatre in central london having travelled in by train/tube - and test positive at the door - how do you get home without using public transport and potentially putting people at risk?
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Post by zahidf on Feb 19, 2021 20:59:43 GMT
Good in theory but this line “ But for nightclubs and theatres, a five minute test conducted on entrance could now be viable with the new technology.” This doesn’t work..... Let’s say you’re queuing for a nightclub/theatre in central london having travelled in by train/tube - and test positive at the door - how do you get home without using public transport and potentially putting people at risk? They'd be a system by then: it's the same for all quick testing I guess. Be the same if you're going to work and get a quick test there!
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Post by Mark on Feb 19, 2021 21:05:16 GMT
What I’m saying is, how would you travel back home without getting on public transport and without getting in a cab if you tested positive? I thought lateral flow tests for employers were getting done at home.
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Post by lynette on Feb 19, 2021 22:22:15 GMT
And how will people react when one or more of the ‘party’ isn’t allowed in. A recipe for trouble. Better to rely on what little common sense remains in society and race through the vaccine programme.
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 19, 2021 22:29:49 GMT
And how will people react when one or more of the ‘party’ isn’t allowed in. A recipe for trouble. Better to rely on what little common sense remains in society and race through the vaccine programme. Horrible visions of covid-positive people screaming at the FOH house staff when denied entry, thus spreading covid even more.
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Post by talkingheads on Feb 20, 2021 0:02:09 GMT
Lots of kinks to work out given the logistics, if 1 person tests positive then what about the person behind them? A sold out theatre audience of even 500 would need to open doors about two hours pre show to get everybody done, but if it gets theatres open I'm all for it.
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Post by mhumphries on Feb 20, 2021 15:13:17 GMT
Oh look, we’re in fantasy land again for the magical COVID test.
For example, let's say on Day 1, you were exposed to COVID-19 but didn't realize it. You happen to get tested the next day, but you don't have enough viral load in your system for it to register.
Then, anytime between Day 3 and Day 5, you enter the incubation phase. Although you're not showing any symptoms, you're still contagious, you can transmit the virus 24 to 72 hours before you experience any symptoms.
A negative test at the door is not a 100% your safe badge to be around 500 people, inside for over 2 hours.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 15:30:48 GMT
Oh look, we’re in fantasy land again for the magical COVID test. For example, let's say on Day 1, you were exposed to COVID-19 but didn't realize it. You happen to get tested the next day, but you don't have enough viral load in your system for it to register. Then, anytime between Day 3 and Day 5, you enter the incubation phase. Although you're not showing any symptoms, you're still contagious, you can transmit the virus 24 to 72 hours before you experience any symptoms. A negative test at the door is not a 100% your safe badge to be around 500 people, inside for over 2 hours. No-one and nowhere will ever be 100% safe unless everyone attending has been vaccinated. People need to stop thinking about 100% anything and start being realistic about risk management, not risk avoidance. They are two different things and there comes a point where people have to choose whether or not they take certain risks. Getting rid or avoiding the virus entirely is years away if it ever happens at all.
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