724 posts
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Post by basdfg on May 4, 2020 11:17:13 GMT
My parents have just been to the bank - going by how long the queue was a cashless society is not going to work anytime soon. Not that many elderly in the queue either.
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724 posts
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Post by basdfg on May 4, 2020 11:17:46 GMT
Depends on how the next few months go. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 13:05:48 GMT
It's up to each of us whether we get out there and carry on or cower under the stairs in terror, and most people seem to be choosing the option that's the fun one. Well said. I stopped reading/engaging in this thread because of basfgds relentless negativity and unwillingness to see anything but the very worst aspects. I came here again because I thought there would have been some updates on the situation in the UK. The Fodor's article was well-writen about how tourism needs to CHANGE when this is over, especially adressing the linked issues of overtourism / cruises / too-cheap flights, but CHANGING has nothing to do with ENDING tourism. Malta is a ridiculous example, the island has very little economy apart from tourism (not counting a roaring trade in selling EU passports) and would never close its doors to tourism, but I can definitely see a need to cut down on thousands of cruise day trippers swamping the little island who contribute very little to the economy. To add some levity: Here on the continent, there are lots of discussions on how to get tourism going again, for example Austria is really pining to open the borders to Germany because they rely on German tourists. The Dutch are upset about the new French quarantine plans because they've been itching to get back to (Southern) France this summer. And Czechia is no longer "keeping its borders shut till the end of the year", they're already re-opening. Here in Germany the first states have introduced a plan to re-open everything in three stages throughout May INCLUDING theatres. While even I think that's rather positive thinking, there is none of that "everything is dead until 2021" doom-mongering here and I can't tell you how much it does for my mental health to get a few positive vibes of life carrying on and inching slowly towards normality. And that's me out again because I just can't deal with this perverse joy of doom-mongering and relentless negativity.Well said - and, on your last point, welcome to Britain! It's fascinating that we seem to be the only country where the public is urging a prolonged lockdown rather than wanting to carefully and thoughtfully lift restrictions and start to get things moving again. I'm convinced that for a lot of people it's just laziness... |
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311 posts
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Post by olliebean on May 4, 2020 13:12:59 GMT
Well said. I stopped reading/engaging in this thread because of basfgds relentless negativity and unwillingness to see anything but the very worst aspects. I came here again because I thought there would have been some updates on the situation in the UK. The Fodor's article was well-writen about how tourism needs to CHANGE when this is over, especially adressing the linked issues of overtourism / cruises / too-cheap flights, but CHANGING has nothing to do with ENDING tourism. Malta is a ridiculous example, the island has very little economy apart from tourism (not counting a roaring trade in selling EU passports) and would never close its doors to tourism, but I can definitely see a need to cut down on thousands of cruise day trippers swamping the little island who contribute very little to the economy. To add some levity: Here on the continent, there are lots of discussions on how to get tourism going again, for example Austria is really pining to open the borders to Germany because they rely on German tourists. The Dutch are upset about the new French quarantine plans because they've been itching to get back to (Southern) France this summer. And Czechia is no longer "keeping its borders shut till the end of the year", they're already re-opening. Here in Germany the first states have introduced a plan to re-open everything in three stages throughout May INCLUDING theatres. While even I think that's rather positive thinking, there is none of that "everything is dead until 2021" doom-mongering here and I can't tell you how much it does for my mental health to get a few positive vibes of life carrying on and inching slowly towards normality. And that's me out again because I just can't deal with this perverse joy of doom-mongering and relentless negativity.Well said - and, on your last point, welcome to Britain! It's fascinating that we seem to be the only country where the public is urging a prolonged lockdown rather than wanting to carefully and thoughtfully lift restrictions and start to get things moving again. I'm convinced that for a lot of people it's just laziness... I'd say it's more likely a lack of trust in the government to handle things carefully and thoughtfully enough. They haven't exactly been inspiring confidence up to now. |
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Post by talkingheads on May 4, 2020 13:57:56 GMT
I'd rather have a longer lockdown and make sure everything is properly safe again. If that's lazy then I'm proud to be so. Life over commerce, just this once.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 4, 2020 14:02:41 GMT
Wow how will the world cope without visiting Malta... |
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170 posts
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Post by jess173 on May 4, 2020 14:04:14 GMT
Well said - and, on your last point, welcome to Britain! It's fascinating that we seem to be the only country where the public is urging a prolonged lockdown rather than wanting to carefully and thoughtfully lift restrictions and start to get things moving again. I'm convinced that for a lot of people it's just laziness... Nah, you’re not... For a long time most people in Germany have supported the lock down. Whenever there was an article about lifting restrictions they would have a poll and 70% would say it was too soon. But since numbers are going down every day (~700 new infections yesterday, if I remember correctly) people are starting to wake up. You’re not over the peak yet in the UK but numbers will hopefully starting to drop soon and things will change. Hang in there. I‘m doing a lot better lately. We had so much doom mongering. „People will meet over Easter, numbers will explode!“ - nothing happened. „Oh no, shops are allowed to open again, numbers will definitely go up!“ - nothing happened. Some of our districts are lifting the contact bans and are opening schools and kindergartens again. We’re slowly getting back to normal and I hope there will be solutions for travel and theatres soon. |
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Post by intoanewlife on May 4, 2020 14:05:04 GMT
I'd rather have a longer lockdown and make sure everything is properly safe again. If that's lazy then I'm proud to be so. Life over commerce, just this once. Exactly! |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 14:11:58 GMT
I'd rather have a longer lockdown and make sure everything is properly safe again. If that's lazy then I'm proud to be so. Life over commerce, just this once. Just to clarify, I definitely don't think it's time to lift restrictions to any great extent at the moment as transmission needs to get lower than is currently the case. But lockdown won't be extended until everything is "properly safe again", because that's likely impossible unless science and drug development moves faster than it ever has before - it could be years, it could be never. And when is life ever properly safe? It's interesting that so many people in the UK are apparently so scared and that we seem to be one of the most nervous nations affected. I've always found it fascinating that people's perception of risk can be so at variance with the reality; the best example is that it's women who are generally afraid of being attacked by strangers on the street, when actually it's young men who are most at danger of that - women get hurt and killed by people they know, usually in their own homes or other familiar places, rarely by strangers in random attacks. But it's still men who offer to walk women home at night, when if you look at the risk it should really be the other way round. Also worth remembering that the point of lockdown is to stop a spike in illness that would overwhelm the health service not to stop transmission altogether, which is impossible. At some point, we are all going to have to accept an element of risk, because remaining in a state of lockdown in the time it will take to develop effective treatments and/or a vaccine (assuming they are ever developed) isn't economically or socially realistic. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 14:27:42 GMT
I'd rather have a longer lockdown and make sure everything is properly safe again. If that's lazy then I'm proud to be so. Life over commerce, just this once. Also worth remembering that the point of lockdown is to stop a spike in illness that would overwhelm the health service not to stop transmission altogether, which is impossible. At some point, we are all going to have to accept an element of risk, because remaining in a state of lockdown in the time it will take to develop effective treatments and/or a vaccine (assuming they are ever developed) isn't economically or socially realistic. Indeed - I am forever reminding people of this. The 24/7 rolling newsreel has given people a very false perception of risk from coronavirus relative to the risks they accept daily in their lives. |
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Post by sph on May 4, 2020 15:12:47 GMT
Also worth remembering that the point of lockdown is to stop a spike in illness that would overwhelm the health service not to stop transmission altogether, which is impossible. At some point, we are all going to have to accept an element of risk, because remaining in a state of lockdown in the time it will take to develop effective treatments and/or a vaccine (assuming they are ever developed) isn't economically or socially realistic. Indeed - I am forever reminding people of this. The 24/7 rolling newsreel has given people a very false perception of risk from coronavirus relative to the risks they accept daily in their lives. This is very true. I can't myself quite subscribe to the "Lockdown 4EVA" mindset that seems to sweep through social media whenever someone raises their hand about the massive economic car crash we're walking into. There is no "life vs commerce" because commerce is partly what gives you life. Your paycheck is what puts food on your table and keeps a roof over your head, and only the extremely privileged can weather a few more months of lockdown or social distancing without having to worry about it. |
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Post by youngoffender on May 4, 2020 15:48:02 GMT
Given the length of time before any vaccine is likely to be widely available (18 months+), and the fact that we won' have an economy to restart if we wait that long to try, I think those in robust health need to buckle up, take reasonable precautions, but face the fact that living has always had an element of risk.
As David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge says, your chances of dying if you get COVID-19 are roughly the same as your chances of dying this year from any cause, i.e. condensing a year's worth of risk into a couple of weeks. That's not negligible, but nor should it have us cowering indoors indefinitely in a pinched and miserable existence.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 15:56:11 GMT
Indeed - I am forever reminding people of this. The 24/7 rolling newsreel has given people a very false perception of risk from coronavirus relative to the risks they accept daily in their lives. This is very true. I can't myself quite subscribe to the "Lockdown 4EVA" mindset that seems to sweep through social media whenever someone raises their hand about the massive economic car crash we're walking into. There is no "life vs commerce" because commerce is partly what gives you life. Your paycheck is what puts food on your table and keeps a roof over your head, and only the extremely privileged can weather a few more months of lockdown or social distancing without having to worry about it. Exactly! And add to that that apparently you are more likely to die in a car crash than of COVID-19 (which doesn't surprise me given the way a lot of drivers in London drive - I'm far more nervous about walking down the street for that reason than the small chance I might catch a virus from someone walking past me for a split second), then there really is no reason for people to fear a lifting of lockdown restrictions in due course. If people want to cocoon themselves away that will be their prerogative, but once the peak is passed and the infection and death rates continue to fall, let those of us who want to live and contribute to the economy choose to take a certain level of risk to get things moving again, within our own comfort zones. No-one will be forcing anyone to go outside, but there will come a point soon where people shouldn't be forced to stay in either. |
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Post by sph on May 4, 2020 16:26:55 GMT
Yes, I do sort of wonder, for those working in industries that have been largely shut down or reduced, such as hospitality, leisure or aviation, what it is they're supposed to do in a few months time if the furlough scheme doesn't last?
That includes those working in theatre. What are they supposed to do? That's not doom-mongering, it's a genuine question. What are all those people supposed to do if we just keep everything closed?
If you're a young healthy person working in any of those industries now, you'll most likely survive the disease. You may not survive the cure.
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Post by Dawnstar on May 4, 2020 16:38:55 GMT
This is very true. I can't myself quite subscribe to the "Lockdown 4EVA" mindset that seems to sweep through social media whenever someone raises their hand about the massive economic car crash we're walking into. There is no "life vs commerce" because commerce is partly what gives you life. Your paycheck is what puts food on your table and keeps a roof over your head, and only the extremely privileged can weather a few more months of lockdown or social distancing without having to worry about it. I'd disagree that it's only the extremely privileged. I earned just under the minimum tax threshold last year, & even in my best years of temping my earnings have never made it to £20k in a year, yet because of my lifestyle I reckon I can, if I don't go to the theatre, afford to live on my savings & not have to go out to work for 2-3 years if I don't feel it is safe to do so. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 16:49:37 GMT
This is very true. I can't myself quite subscribe to the "Lockdown 4EVA" mindset that seems to sweep through social media whenever someone raises their hand about the massive economic car crash we're walking into. There is no "life vs commerce" because commerce is partly what gives you life. Your paycheck is what puts food on your table and keeps a roof over your head, and only the extremely privileged can weather a few more months of lockdown or social distancing without having to worry about it. I'd disagree that it's only the extremely privileged. I earned just under the minimum tax threshold last year, & even in my best years of temping my earnings have never made it to £20k in a year, yet because of my lifestyle I reckon I can, if I don't go to the theatre, afford to live on my savings & not have to go out to work for 2-3 years if I don't feel it is safe to do so. Am happy for you but that's extraordinarily unusual and doesn't change the point that months and months of full lockdown is impossible for the vast majority. I also think you'd be affected by economic collapse regardless - for example your savings wouldn't last that long if inflation soars. As an aside, I'd love to know where you're living that you can afford to pay years of rent/mortgage without a job - you must be one hell if a saver! |
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Post by sph on May 4, 2020 17:03:04 GMT
I'd disagree that it's only the extremely privileged. I earned just under the minimum tax threshold last year, & even in my best years of temping my earnings have never made it to £20k in a year, yet because of my lifestyle I reckon I can, if I don't go to the theatre, afford to live on my savings & not have to go out to work for 2-3 years if I don't feel it is safe to do so. Am happy for you but that's extraordinarily unusual and doesn't change the point that months and months of full lockdown is impossible for the vast majority. I also think you'd be affected by economic collapse regardless - for example your savings wouldn't last that long if inflation soars. As an aside, I'd love to know where you're living that you can afford to pay years of rent/mortgage without a job - you must be one hell if a saver! What you have achieved in terms of savings is extraordinary indeed. I'm not sure most people could say the same, and what a shame if people have to spend their life savings trying to survive the next two years in a cocoon. |
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Post by talkingheads on May 4, 2020 17:25:06 GMT
This is very true. I can't myself quite subscribe to the "Lockdown 4EVA" mindset that seems to sweep through social media whenever someone raises their hand about the massive economic car crash we're walking into. There is no "life vs commerce" because commerce is partly what gives you life. Your paycheck is what puts food on your table and keeps a roof over your head, and only the extremely privileged can weather a few more months of lockdown or social distancing without having to worry about it. Exactly! And add to that that apparently you are more likely to die in a car crash than of COVID-19 (which doesn't surprise me given the way a lot of drivers in London drive - I'm far more nervous about walking down the street for that reason than the small chance I might catch a virus from someone walking past me for a split second), then there really is no reason for people to fear a lifting of lockdown restrictions in due course. If people want to cocoon themselves away that will be their prerogative, but once the peak is passed and the infection and death rates continue to fall, let those of us who want to live and contribute to the economy choose to take a certain level of risk to get things moving again, within our own comfort zones. No-one will be forcing anyone to go outside, but there will come a point soon where people shouldn't be forced to stay in either. This is why I am astounded plans for Universal Basic Income haven't come into fruition yet. Many people aren't just staying off work. Their place of work no longer exists. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 17:51:12 GMT
And add to that that apparently you are more likely to die in a car crash than of COVID-19 Not even close. The roads are actually far safer than most people think: only 1784 deaths in 2018. You'd have to drive a little under two million miles a year to have the same chance of dying from covid-19. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 17:58:46 GMT
And add to that that apparently you are more likely to die in a car crash than of COVID-19 Not even close. The roads are actually far safer than most people think: only 1784 deaths in 2018. You'd have to drive a little under two million miles a year to have the same chance of dying from covid-19. Depends what age bracket you're in - a 20 year old male has a different statistical likelihood of dying in both a car accident and of CV-19 than a 70 year old man. The 70 year old still has a small overall chance of doing either, unless he has relevant underlying health conditions or is driving with his eyes closed. |
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Post by tommy on May 4, 2020 18:33:01 GMT
I guess we'll just have to take it day to day/week to week now, as one thing seems to be clear and that's making future plans isn't possible at the moment. I'm sure the joy will be much bigger once these and other things will be possible again.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 20:04:33 GMT
From producer David Pugh on twitter. Possibly in response to another well known producer  or maybe he's been reading a few posts in this thread |
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Post by Dawnstar on May 4, 2020 20:57:17 GMT
I'd disagree that it's only the extremely privileged. I earned just under the minimum tax threshold last year, & even in my best years of temping my earnings have never made it to £20k in a year, yet because of my lifestyle I reckon I can, if I don't go to the theatre, afford to live on my savings & not have to go out to work for 2-3 years if I don't feel it is safe to do so. Am happy for you but that's extraordinarily unusual and doesn't change the point that months and months of full lockdown is impossible for the vast majority. I also think you'd be affected by economic collapse regardless - for example your savings wouldn't last that long if inflation soars. As an aside, I'd love to know where you're living that you can afford to pay years of rent/mortgage without a job - you must be one hell if a saver! With my mother. I pay her rent, & have done ever since I finished uni & got my first temp job, but it's a lot less than it would be if I was renting somewhere on my own in the area. I don't own a car, I don't go on lots of expensive holidays, I don't eat out, I don't buy lots of clothes. Basically my main non-essential expenditure is theatregoing, plus books. So now it's just books! |
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Post by stagey on May 4, 2020 23:29:14 GMT
There’s literally Oxford scientists saying they’re fairly confident in producing a mass vaccine of some sorts by even September...i dont know about you but I’m clinging onto positive hope like that rather than thinking I’m going to have to social distance from everyone for the next 18 months coz that thought honestly destroys me. Why some people on here are SO negative really baffles me? Imagine saying countries don’t want tourism...what?! How does that make ANY sense and why would a pandemic stop countries wanting tourism after this goes back to normal...which it will one day this isn’t lasting forever. It’s just a laughable comment especially since the poster seems SO confident we will never leave our houses again!!
This is changing legit everyday...nobody can predict what’s gonna happen in 2 months I mean NOBODY expected this on NYE last year yet 2 months a lockdown started!!! Look at the positives such as the funding and research for a vaccine possibly by September because I can’t keep coming back to read this thread to see nothing but doom and gloom...not good for any of yall to be surrounded by that much despair ✌🏼
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4,806 posts
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Post by Mark on May 5, 2020 9:30:42 GMT
Does this mean there will be no plays/musicals/operas with kissing anymore? An interesting thought. A week before Broadway got shut down, I watched as Laurie Metcalf spat at Rupert Everett in the face. Can't imagine that could happen now. |
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or maybe he's been reading a few posts in this thread