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Post by londonpostie on Apr 26, 2020 13:29:07 GMT
I also know people who's lives has improved from taking a break from bullsh*t capitalism, the long days, the commutes and being expected to compromise their values too often. A lot of people are not in a hurry to return to abnormal, in fact are anxious about that.
Given the demographic of theatre-goers as I experience them, maybe a levy would work for some theatres - the West End, perhaps. I think the fringes are probably more price sensitive but it's a guess ..
Personally, I'm on a fixed budget. If the average price goes up I go to fewer performances. It's okay, it is what it is
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 26, 2020 13:34:14 GMT
I can't see it being sustainable that theatres will remain closed until a vaccine is found. There's no guarantee there ever will be a vaccine. I think with many of these public gatherings you have to be given your own choice to make. Well tough, basically. If we can't get this disease under control then there's no theatre. Not sure this is true. When the antibody test is ready we may move to a 'passport' scenario.
I'm not sure that's been thought through, though; when we get that test, surely some people - esp. young people (hge survival rate)- will go out looking for a damn Covid infection.
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Post by sph on Apr 26, 2020 13:47:54 GMT
Well tough, basically. If we can't get this disease under control then there's no theatre. Not sure this is true. When the antibody test is ready we may move to a 'passport' scenario.
I'm not sure that's been thought through, though; when we get that test, surely some people - esp. young people (hge survival rate)- will go out looking for a damn Covid infection.
Yes I think saying it's just "tough" and there'll be no theatre is a bit more heavy-handed than the reality, which is that the restrictions that would prevent theatre from happening would be the same ones which extend to the closure of other industries such as bars, restaurants, air travel, hotels, sports, music etc. I'm not sure that the world is going to end huge sectors of the economy if they can get the numbers of infected people low enough to let them continue. And the people higher up the production chain than we are must be getting their optimism from somewhere, as shows are still pushing for autumn openings and pantos are being announced and cast. All of these things could fall through of course, but I just think that a year from now, even without a vaccine, it's hard to imagine that all these things will be closed still. And is the government going to pay furlough for all these displaced employees forever? That can't be practical surely. And if they do end the furlough scheme, what is everyone whose industry has just died going to do? There won't be any work for them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 14:34:53 GMT
Not sure this is true. When the antibody test is ready we may move to a 'passport' scenario.
I'm not sure that's been thought through, though; when we get that test, surely some people - esp. young people (hge survival rate)- will go out looking for a damn Covid infection.
Yes I think saying it's just "tough" and there'll be no theatre is a bit more heavy-handed than the reality, which is that the restrictions that would prevent theatre from happening would be the same ones which extend to the closure of other industries such as bars, restaurants, air travel, hotels, sports, music etc. I'm not sure that the world is going to end huge sectors of the economy if they can get the numbers of infected people low enough to let them continue. I think that there's a particular problem with theatre because it's both one of the highest-risk environments and also one of the lowest concerns for the majority of people, so when it comes to getting it back up and running it's going to be right down at the bottom of the list. I don't want to give the impression that my last comment means I think we're going to be in total lockdown for many months; it's more that things will need to be opened up in stages according to how easy it is to keep transmission rates down and theatre is going to be one of the last things to return. I agree that we can't carry on the way we are right now for any great length of time. Once the number of infections in the wild is low enough we can start to reopen most shops with the same two-metre distances rules currently applied to supermarkets, I can see restaurants opening with reduced capacity and precautions in place for staff, and some office workers will be able to start returning to the office so long as others stay home. But until we have a vaccine or a cure the disease won't have gone away. It went from 13 victims to 143,000 in two months and it will do the same all over again if we give it the chance, so as we open things up again we need to make sure it never gets that chance. And I don't see any way that theatres can operate in that environment, what with their huge staffing costs meaning they need to run at around 60% capacity just to break even. Unless there's some breakthrough with cheap and reliable virus-blocking masks or ultra-accurate tests, theatre is going to have to wait.
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Post by theatreian on Apr 26, 2020 14:50:08 GMT
theatre is going to have to wait Yes I think that is what will happen. We just need to face reality. Hopefully something will come from the government in the not too distant future which will end this period of speculation, but theatre is just too risky as are concerts etc.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 26, 2020 15:17:04 GMT
Asbestos is not the same thing as it has a far more quantifiable risk and solution. I think when theatres reopen there will be limited contact between patrons and staff, as in no physical bag checks or ticket tearing, and possibly a limit to what is sold in the way of bars/merchandise to discourage contact, but aside from that, if the numbers of people with the virus start to go down significantly by the end of the summer, we may just all have to get on with it of we aren't in the "at risk" category. That's unlikely to happen - no ticket or bag checks, limited front of house staff, restricted drink or cafe, another big income source for venues lost etc.? This is a virus that travels 2m or more just by talking and breathing. Everyone on this site loves theatre but it isn't worth dying for, or endangering life for.
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Post by sph on Apr 26, 2020 15:19:18 GMT
I don't think a restaurant can run at reduced capacity though, and I say that as someone who worked in restaurants for years. It's hard enough getting people into hotels and restaurants in order for them to make a profit without limiting numbers. Sure, they might all look busy in London, but head out of the major cities and look at businesses in smaller towns and you're looking at an industry that's potentially about to die on it's... well, yes.
I think the bottom line will ultimately be financial. Otherwise by the end of the year we'll be in a situation where people literally cannot pay for food and rent.
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Post by sph on Apr 26, 2020 15:20:54 GMT
Asbestos is not the same thing as it has a far more quantifiable risk and solution. I think when theatres reopen there will be limited contact between patrons and staff, as in no physical bag checks or ticket tearing, and possibly a limit to what is sold in the way of bars/merchandise to discourage contact, but aside from that, if the numbers of people with the virus start to go down significantly by the end of the summer, we may just all have to get on with it of we aren't in the "at risk" category. That's unlikely to happen - no ticket or bag checks, limited front of house staff, restricted drink or cafe, another big income source for venues lost etc.? This is a virus that travels 2m or more just by talking and breathing. Everyone on this site loves theatre but it isn't worth dying for, or endangering life for. You can check a bag and check a ticket without physically touching it.
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Post by Dawnstar on Apr 26, 2020 15:49:46 GMT
Yes, if involvement in it could potentially kill you. If they find extensive asbestos in a building they generally close it until it has been removed or made safe. Its potential to kill you is small for the average person. Asbestos is not the same thing as it has a far more quantifiable risk and solution. I think I'd rather take risks with asbestos than coronavirus, given asbestos generally takes a couple of decades to kill you whereas coronavirus can kill you in a couple of weeks.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 26, 2020 15:57:09 GMT
I do wonder how places can be expected to open at limited capacity given how little money they will make? Restaurants, theaters, cafes etc struggle to go into profit as it is.
I wonder if for example you could have a half full house and sell reduced price tickets to watch a livestream of the production at home? Say £25 to sit in the theatre, £10 to watch at home?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 17:38:49 GMT
I do wonder how places can be expected to open at limited capacity given how little money they will make? Restaurants, theaters, cafes etc struggle to go into profit as it is. I think some will manage. The pubs I frequented for meals rarely operated at capacity except on Sunday afternoons, but they were all out in the country or small villages where the rent was low or where the property was owned outright by the landlord. It'll obviously be a very different matter in expensive locations where high throughput is essential. If I was the government my approach would be to set out distancing regulations and say "If you can operate within these restrictions then you can open" and perhaps "If you cheat and we catch you the fine will be unlimited". That's considerably more complicated than a simple "This type of business can open; this type can't" but I think it'll be necessary to allow people to get back to work where it's safe for them to do so. Give people the opportunity to use their own knowledge of their own business to see if they can come up with innovative ways to keep going. It might even be fun, in a wartime spirit all-pull-together kind of way.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 26, 2020 20:29:36 GMT
You can check a bag and check a ticket without physically touching it. I have had severe OCD for many years so am very conscious about contact when I'm out and about. This is a virus that travels 2m and then hangs around in the air. It can even piggy-back on pollution particles. Not handing over a ticket as you walk through the narrow door into the average British theatre space isn't going to keep you or the usher that much safer.
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Post by sph on Apr 26, 2020 21:30:16 GMT
You can check a bag and check a ticket without physically touching it. I have had severe OCD for many years so am very conscious about contact when I'm out and about. This is a virus that travels 2m and then hangs around in the air. It can even piggy-back on pollution particles. Not handing over a ticket as you walk through the narrow door into the average British theatre space isn't going to keep you or the usher that much safer. No, but I still expect that actual physical contact will be prohibited. It may not help THAT much, but in a busier setting it's something and would also probably make audiences feel slightly more secure. A person could probably stand to be near another person when things start to ease, but may still not want them touching them or anything they have to handle. That's not how it works, I know, but it's how people's minds work.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 21:49:45 GMT
I can't see it being sustainable that theatres will remain closed until a vaccine is found. There's no guarantee there ever will be a vaccine. I think with many of these public gatherings you have to be given your own choice to make. Do you want to risk getting the illness and help improve your mental health or do you want to avoid getting the illness and completely but potentially let your mental health suffer? I do wonder whether we might see smaller, fringe-type theatres reopening sooner than the huge barns of a theatre. There is a false dichotomy here. There has been a rush from some quarters to suggest that mental health is only affected by being locked down. The truth, however, is that it is a more akin to a seesaw. Those who are in that group are balanced by an equal number whose mental health is improved by not making them exposed to the virus. Now, rather than suddenly say ‘everybody out’, the seesaw needs to find an equilibrium, so that as few on each side of it are affected. How that affects theatre is that it needs to provide for each of those groups and in between, a tough balancing act. Absolutely, and the biggest question at the minute is at what point do we tip it back to equilibrium. At the minute it is 100% on the side of measures to combat coronavirus and 0% on the side of every other health condition on the planet and the economy... ...or at least that is what it feels like to many I suspect, and certainly to many people I know, and that is part of the problem. That is unsustainable. I'm going to be brutally honest about my own experience now as I'm getting very frustrated by the tunnel vision of some people on here (not you) and the idea that this is only about coronavirus. It isn't. I'm just about managing to control my mental health at the minute, but it's getting more difficult as the weeks of isolation go on, and I don't know how much longer I will last before I have to ask for help and undo all of the good work I've done over the past couple of years in getting to a place where I don't need it. I am lucky that I have never been so low as to have suicidal thoughts, but many are worse off that me. Many people who aren't self-isolating alone really don't understand the mental health impact of all of this - yes, some will be happy they can hide away from it all, but many of us aren't wired like that, or at least need human contact at least some of the time, when we choose. To go without through no choice of your own isn't normal, it isn't healthy. If there are many more like me, and I suspect there are from my own experience and people I know, then the seesaw needs to tip soon or there will be a massive strain on mental health resources that already couldn't cope before the crisis. Do I want us to find a cure/vaccine and prevent unnecessary deaths? Of course, but unnecessary deaths don't just come from coronavirus, so we need to look at the bigger picture both in terms of avoiding unnecessary victims and preserving resources. That will of course involve an element of choice, but no-one has ever been forced to go to the theatre, cinema, restaurants etc so in that respect it will be nothing new, just added space between tables or empty seats. Everyone can then choose their risk in light of their own personal circumstances.
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Post by theatreian on Apr 26, 2020 22:05:11 GMT
On the daily briefings from Downing street it has been mentioned several times about the different aspects of health and risk not just from covid but from other aspects such as other health issues not being dealt with. Those with mental health issues come into this category as their issues and challenges are not being dealt with or are being compounded by our present situation. I really hope that everyone can find somewhere or someone where they can find help or assistance so that there are no more casualties from this virus than absolutely necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 4:45:09 GMT
I can sympathise with those who are struggling. I'm struggling. Thanks to my ASD I'm self-harming like you would not believe at the moment. Multiple breakdowns a day are no fun. And it's now nearly two months since I had a conversation with another human being. There are loads of people I was acquainted with I can't contact and I have no idea how they're doing and I might never see them again. I rarely get more than three hours sleep a night over this.
But we know from history that in the event of a pandemic if restrictions are relaxed too early you just end up going through it all again. Yes, there will be mental health issues, and I'm getting increasingly angry that some people — most notably the police — are concentrating on enforcing the government's guidance rather than the purpose behind the guidance and are clamping down on anyone who is indulging in perfectly safe activities that are no risk to anyone instead of people who are increasing the risk. Mental health matters. But half a million deaths matter too, and that won't be the end of it. That's just the first pass.
The good news is that we're over the worst of it. There's a new emergency hospital in Birmingham that might never be needed because the spread and occurrence of serious cases has fallen, and that's great. But we're only in this position because the measures we have in place are working. If we stop now and remove those measures we'll just have to go through it all again in a couple of months.
Everyone wants to be able to get back to normal before there's a vaccine or cure while somehow avoiding having hundreds of thousands of deaths but that's not one of the options reality has given us.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 6:09:39 GMT
The day they announced the lock-in there were 102 deaths, we aint getting out until it’s below that again
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Post by jess173 on Apr 27, 2020 13:41:21 GMT
I'm going to be brutally honest about my own experience now as I'm getting very frustrated by the tunnel vision of some people on here (not you) and the idea that this is only about coronavirus. It isn't. I'm just about managing to control my mental health at the minute, but it's getting more difficult as the weeks of isolation go on, and I don't know how much longer I will last before I have to ask for help and undo all of the good work I've done over the past couple of years in getting to a place where I don't need it. I am lucky that I have never been so low as to have suicidal thoughts, but many are worse off that me. Many people who aren't self-isolating alone really don't understand the mental health impact of all of this - yes, some will be happy they can hide away from it all, but many of us aren't wired like that, or at least need human contact at least some of the time, when we choose. To go without through no choice of your own isn't normal, it isn't healthy. Thank you for this. I feel exactly the same. I actually never had mental health issues before but since this lockdown I’ve started to develop some. I had a full blown panic attack last week. I’ve never experienced anything like this. I live alone about an hour drive away from friends and family. It was required from me to move here for work and that wasn’t really a problem as I own a car and could always go and see my friends and family whenever I liked. I also used to travel a lot and go to the theatre to escape the dull every day work life. Now I’m basically locked away miles from everyone. I never liked talking on the phone so that doesn't help me. I miss physical contact. I miss just meeting friends for dinner, to go shopping or see a show. I miss hopping on a plane to London. What scares me the most is that I don’t know when anything like that will be possible again. And every single day they paint new disaster scenarios on the news (over here daily infections have been dropping constantly but there’s never good news). I‘m back at the office now. We have to do business as usual. But there’s nothing I can look forward to anymore. I’ve got no choice but to work and then go home. Every single day. I really don’t know how long I can keep on doing this. I really hope we‘ll find a way to get some kind of „normality“ back soon. I don’t believe in a vaccine. It would take years until everyone got a dose. So we either find a cure or we will implement measures to live with it. I understand that theatres pose a huge risk at the moment and I have kind of accepted that I won’t be going to see a show in a long time. But life has to go on. At least for me it has to, or I‘m going to get real big problems pretty soon.
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Post by theatreian on Apr 27, 2020 15:32:18 GMT
I guess it's difficult to appreciate what some are going through in this crisis. All I can say is it is temporary and we just have to take one day at a time. Try and find small positives each day and remember things will change , but don't look too far ahead. I hope anyone suffering at the moment can try and find something positive even if it something like there is someone else worse off than me. Take care everyone.
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Post by properjob on Apr 27, 2020 18:05:26 GMT
For those that are missing watching theatre I would really recommend trying some of the streamed theatre options out there if you haven't already. There is a thread in this very forum collating them and there are a lot out there. I have the good fortune to still be working and I am struggling to fit them all in. Some are obviously better than others but the ones that were filmed with the intention of releasing them e.g. broadcast to cinema's rather than the archive recordings are very good and certainly keep me distracted.
Stay safe, look after yourself and don't be afraid to ask for help.
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Post by clair on Apr 27, 2020 20:31:37 GMT
The streaming ones really don't work for me as I just don't enjoy watching a screen - I never go to the cinema and rarely watch tv. In a theatre I get totally absorbed and the rest of the world disappears, at home with a screen I get restless and do other things at the same time. I've tried a couple but no, not for me sadly although I seriously love the fact that so many places are making the effort to get stuff out there for us all
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Post by basdfg on Apr 27, 2020 21:07:29 GMT
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Post by showgirl on Apr 28, 2020 3:49:10 GMT
The streaming ones really don't work for me as I just don't enjoy watching a screen - I never go to the cinema and rarely watch tv. In a theatre I get totally absorbed and the rest of the world disappears, at home with a screen I get restless and do other things at the same time. I've tried a couple but no, not for me sadly although I seriously love the fact that so many places are making the effort to get stuff out there for us all Absolutely, clair - though unlike you, I do go to the cinema - or rather, I did. Although I find it hard to switch off and focus whether in a cinema or theatre, I feel I have a better chance of doing so in a dedicated space with a decent view. I have zero interest in peering at the same things on a tiny screen, especially when I spend all day glued to the same screen for work. I know I'm not missing anything theatre-wise that others aren't also missing, as productions have been paused, postponed or cancelled, but I am concerned about missing out on cinema releases as some customers can and do still watch at home, so I'm not sure that cinemas will still put those films on belatedly when they re-open or whether I'll have missed out completely.
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Post by 49thand8th on Apr 28, 2020 4:21:02 GMT
I try to watch streaming theatre on my TV via the YouTube app on the Roku or my Switch. It's a lot more enjoyable that way.
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Post by properjob on Apr 28, 2020 5:00:41 GMT
I try to watch streaming theatre on my TV via the YouTube app on the Roku or my Switch. It's a lot more enjoyable that way. I completely agree I only watch them on my TV and avoid the fixed camera archive recordings as even on the TV I get frustrated and not being able to see probably. Shut the curtains, turn off the lights and imagine you are surrounded by theatre board members who will give you the hard stare if you so much as twitch during the performance. Charging yourself 5 quid for an ice cream during the interval is optional.
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