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Post by max on May 10, 2021 12:18:26 GMT
Hi FairyGodmother - I'm sure you're right about the love interest (as any FairyGodmother should be!), I was just looking after the princes, lol. But seriously, there are many ways of slicing the pie when looking at who plays what, and who is represented: role type, whole production team or actors only, whether Musicals pick up the slack for representation in plays, whether the entertainment world picks up the slack for low profile in other parts of society (and if that lets those other areas off the hook).
I noticed your comment about the videos of ALW with cast. It does feel a bit haphazard, and homemade at CINDERELLA. The personal / vloggy feel can work, but online content still has to be good! There was some lovely stuff a few days ago for 'Beauty & the Beast - tour'; stylish, warm, professional. Do you think this is just early days fun stuff for CINDERELLA, and it'll get more slick later? First impressions count though, that's my worry.
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942 posts
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Post by max on May 10, 2021 13:24:34 GMT
Lloyd Webber has done so well on social media and been creative with it during the pandemic, but that casual touch doesn't seem to transfer here.
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Post by inthenose on May 10, 2021 14:00:13 GMT
Equality within theatre has to come from everyone earning their roles by merit. There is no suggestion that any of the actors hired this year are anything other than good professionals, who have received their roles by virtue of their talent. Even if a casting call went out looking specifically for a non-traditional casting of an existing role (as happened with Christine in Phantom), there is still a tough field of talented performers competing for a coveted role.
At Phantom, whilst it is historically inaccurate that a young person of colour would've been allowed to perform in an opera in France at the time of the show (Christiane Eda-Pierre, France's first black opera singer, wasn't even born until 1932), the show is about a supernatural deformed serial killer, who can make magical candles appear at will, so frankly historical realism isn't a concern. Similarly, Cinderella, Wicked et al are fairy tales, it really doesn't matter or affect the narrative. In Matilda, Mrs Trunchbull is played by a man to portray the masculinity and physical aura of the character. We suspend disbelief, because there isn't much at stake.
Most will agree, there should be no such thing as a "white musical". Oklahoma, Anything Goes and the like are nowadays being cast more equally - this is a good thing. There should be no such thing as a "black musical", a "Hispanic musical" or "Asian musical" either. This is because equality means equality for ALL.
"In the Heights" at the King's Cross Theatre featured a white man as Usnavi who was superb (Sam Mackay, brilliant guy too), a role originated by a Hispanic. This was a good thing because he was excellent in the role. Benny is a black guy. Swap the two roles and the story is compromised and makes no sense.
"Colourblind" casting only works if it does not structurally harming the narrative. If you're doing Chitty, you CAN have two black parents in a piece with a white child, without that becoming a focus of the narrative. Because it's about a magical flying car. You can't do the same thing in say Next to Normal, because it is to all intents and purposes meant to be taken seriously.
It creates subtext. Subtext the author certainly didn't intend. Is the child supposed to be adopted? How does that affect her relationships and behaviours? Did it come from Father or Mother having an affair - is that addressed in the show or appropriate for the character? Whilst the theatre has a duty to be inclusive, it also has a duty to serve the arts - not only social politics.
We have a long way to go. Throwing diverse casts together willy-nilly "because it's 2021" is very short sighted, without the proper structure for ensuring it means what it should mean - blanket equality for all - not what it is danger of meaning, "we have to look like we are casting equally by hiring more people of colour to play roles traditionally played by white people".
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Post by danb on May 10, 2021 14:27:45 GMT
“You can't do the same thing in say Next to Normal, because it is to all intents and purposes meant to be taken seriously.
It creates subtext”
I respectfully cannot agree. The audience are being asked to suspend disbelief. It is a work of fiction whether it is about a flying car or a dysfunctional family. If that jars for people they are perhaps not in the right place to have a story told to them. These actors are demonstrating events not living them. If there is a sociopolitical context to the story they are telling, or it is set within a place where them being of their colour is a plot point it could be considered poor taste to cast outside of that caste. If it is a creative decision eg:to have black men playing the white men that shaped the formation of the USA; making a juxtaposition then fair enough. But I don’t agree that it being a serious subject should negate colourblind casting.
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4,603 posts
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Post by Mark on May 10, 2021 14:50:46 GMT
“You can't do the same thing in say Next to Normal, because it is to all intents and purposes meant to be taken seriously. It creates subtext” I respectfully cannot agree. The audience are being asked to suspend disbelief. It is a work of fiction whether it is about a flying car or a dysfunctional family. If that jars for people they are perhaps not in the right place to have a story told to them. These actors are demonstrating events not living them. If there is a sociopolitical context to the story they are telling, or it is set within a place where them being of their colour is a plot point it could be considered poor taste to cast outside of that caste. If it is a creative decision eg:to have black men playing the white men that shaped the formation of the USA; making a juxtaposition then fair enough. But I don’t agree that it being a serious subject should negate colourblind casting. It's an interesting one, because watching Jagged Little Pill on Broadway, I did wonder if the character of Frankie was adopted, or whether it was color-blind casting before it was clarified that yes, she was adopted, and I'm sure the same question would be asked about next to normal should they have colour-blind casting - and that's more down to the nature of the show and the issues which are dealt with in that it could be a question if people aren't familiar with the piece. Interestingly in Everybody's Talkin about Jamie they recast the dad as a black actor when Layton took over the role. Back to Cinderella, it's great to see diverse casting, and that this extends to the ensemble and presumably all the covers.
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Post by max on May 10, 2021 15:58:17 GMT
Agreed Mark - I've got warm feelings about heading back to the Gillian Lynne Theatre in that regard. I left it late to see 'School Of Rock' there (penultimate theatre visit before lockdown as it turned out) but the vibrant diversity of the young cast was one of the highlights for me. They won't all stick in the theatre industry, but they made their mark and will have inspired a few young audience members too. Not wild about seeing any telling of CINDERELLA tbh, but I'm hoping Emerald Fennell's input was more than a scenario she came up with and ALW got mega excited about before it was cooked (as he tends to do). She's an asset to the whole project, but her reputation since she was first involved is now sky high - people will be expecting a lot, and quite fairly.
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Post by danb on May 10, 2021 16:24:12 GMT
After ‘Promising Young Woman’ I’m expecting an awful lot. She doesn’t strike me as someone that would allow anyone to weaken her vision.
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Post by max on May 10, 2021 17:33:36 GMT
Funny things happen with status Danb, and people can go a bit fuzzy around musicals, it's such a different world you can lose your usual centre of creative gravity. Imagine if the pandemic had started now not a year ago (save us!); ALW finding himself with an Oscar winning book writer on the team, with an acclaimed film under her belt about one woman's experience today. That's a lot of unexpected writing/refining time to make it amazing. I just hope her status did already get honoured in the collaboration from the start. We'll see!
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Post by danb on May 10, 2021 17:48:49 GMT
Series 3 of ‘Killing Eve’ was to the same standard as the first two, and refreshingly introduced new characters and situations to keep it fresh. She could be a one trick pony, but it’s a good trick and she knows how to use it well.
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Post by j0shwaterfield on May 11, 2021 8:41:19 GMT
does anyone have any clue about seats for this? i saw school of rock a couple of times in side seats and they were great value but i’m looking at refurb pictures and pictures of the set and it looks like you could miss quite a lot from the side seats so i’m really debating what to book 😩
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Post by nick on May 11, 2021 13:30:44 GMT
does anyone have any clue about seats for this? i saw school of rock a couple of times in side seats and they were great value but i’m looking at refurb pictures and pictures of the set and it looks like you could miss quite a lot from the side seats so i’m really debating what to book 😩 I hope not. I went for cheap seats (£25 each or something like that - it's a long time since I booked and I used vouchers) and was hoping they'd be OK. Mind you if it's any good I can always go again in decent seats.
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Post by danb on May 11, 2021 13:39:39 GMT
I’ve been moved over a couple of seats more central with the rebooking shenanigans so am hoping its ok.
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Post by j0shwaterfield on May 11, 2021 14:23:47 GMT
does anyone have any clue about seats for this? i saw school of rock a couple of times in side seats and they were great value but i’m looking at refurb pictures and pictures of the set and it looks like you could miss quite a lot from the side seats so i’m really debating what to book 😩 I hope not. I went for cheap seats (£25 each or something like that - it's a long time since I booked and I used vouchers) and was hoping they'd be OK. Mind you if it's any good I can always go again in decent seats. yea i’m really debating what to book for myself, as in some pictures it looks quite restricted but then some pictures the stage is further out into the audience and it looks like a great view so 😣
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4,978 posts
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Post by TallPaul on May 11, 2021 14:28:24 GMT
If the stage and front stalls do swap places, that should make the view from the rear stalls better, shouldn't it?
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Post by fluxcapacitor on May 12, 2021 10:29:50 GMT
Series 3 of ‘Killing Eve’ was to the same standard as the first two, and refreshingly introduced new characters and situations to keep it fresh. She could be a one trick pony, but it’s a good trick and she knows how to use it well. Totally disagree about 'Killing Eve'. Having loved Series 1 and quite enjoyed Series 2, I found Series 3 completely tedious - it became a chore to watch, and whilst it didn't become style over substance it felt like the focus had moved to visual set pieces and gimmicky twists at the expense of storytelling. I thought the through line of the series became confused and meandering and I gave up caring about any of the characters. There were some good moments, and she's definitely brilliant at writing clever dialogue both witty and emotion-driven, but I found the overall storytelling loose and messy. I do highly rate her work usually, though, and loved Promising Young Woman. So there's potential there for it to be brilliant. A musical can be a difficult beast to master even for the most experienced writers though - just look at Jennifer Saunders' attempt in Viva Forever.
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Post by theatrelover123 on May 12, 2021 12:00:43 GMT
does anyone have any clue about seats for this? i saw school of rock a couple of times in side seats and they were great value but i’m looking at refurb pictures and pictures of the set and it looks like you could miss quite a lot from the side seats so i’m really debating what to book 😩 I have the same concerns but ALL the seats in the front moveable block are being sold later in the run (post previews) at around £99/£109 so I'm assuming they should be good ones on the side, considering the uniform price?
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on May 12, 2021 12:32:15 GMT
Series 3 of ‘Killing Eve’ was to the same standard as the first two, and refreshingly introduced new characters and situations to keep it fresh. She could be a one trick pony, but it’s a good trick and she knows how to use it well. Totally disagree about 'Killing Eve'. Having loved Series 1 and quite enjoyed Series 2, I found Series 3 completely tedious - it became a chore to watch, and whilst it didn't become style over substance it felt like the focus had moved to visual set pieces and gimmicky twists at the expense of storytelling. I thought the through line of the series became confused and meandering and I gave up caring about any of the characters. There were some good moments, and she's definitely brilliant at writing clever dialogue both witty and emotion-driven, but I found the overall storytelling loose and messy. I do highly rate her work usually, though, and loved Promising Young Woman. So there's potential there for it to be brilliant. A musical can be a difficult beast to master even for the most experienced writers though - just look at Jennifer Saunders' attempt in Viva Forever. I was quite shocked that Series 4 is going to be a thing, I thought it would end on S3!
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Post by newyorkcityboy on May 12, 2021 13:48:44 GMT
Hi. First post here (after a long time lurking). Thought I’d point out that Emerald Fennell was in charge of S2 of Killing Eve, i.e. one of the good ones, not the third one (which is when it all went pear shaped).
I too am surprised they’re carrying on with it...
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Post by danb on May 12, 2021 13:56:43 GMT
Wow, that’s even better news. Series 2 was my favourite.
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Post by fluxcapacitor on May 13, 2021 9:26:26 GMT
Hi. First post here (after a long time lurking). Thought I’d point out that Emerald Fennell was in charge of S2 of Killing Eve, i.e. one of the good ones, not the third one (which is when it all went pear shaped). I too am surprised they’re carrying on with it... I'm with danb, then and take back my criticism (of her, not of series 3!) That's a very good sign, and makes sense as that was up to her usual standards.
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Post by elibal on May 20, 2021 17:35:00 GMT
Accidentally or on purpose ALW revealed a snippet of a new number on an unrelated video
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Post by FairyGodmother on May 23, 2021 10:50:32 GMT
Good spot! I was hoping we might get another song before it opens, but that seems doubtful now.
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Post by johnie21 on May 23, 2021 12:37:53 GMT
Good spot! I was hoping we might get another song before it opens, but that seems doubtful now. Full cast recording comes out on the 25th! There was a video posted on Andrews Instagram. Of a song from the show. called it’s called the vanishing of the 3 witch.
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Post by FairyGodmother on May 23, 2021 15:46:04 GMT
Ooh, which post please? I've compared it with what I can see of the 'hidden' song list in this tweet and I'm guessing it's 13 (although I think it might be "Vanquishing", rather than "Vanishing").
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Post by FairyGodmother on May 23, 2021 16:32:29 GMT
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Post by FairyGodmother on May 24, 2021 9:32:05 GMT
This tweet has a good picture of the map, and there is a Sea Witch lookout. I'll be interested to see how that's weaved in — I don't think of Cinderella with any links to the sea!
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Post by marob on May 24, 2021 9:49:52 GMT
I’ll be equally interested to see how they work Hunk’s Gymnasium into the show. Presumably that’s where the “pneumatic choirboys” come into into play.
I’ve only really taken notice of this show in the past couple of weeks, but it sounds completely nuts in a way that makes me really want to see it.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jun 3, 2021 23:21:21 GMT
Far Too Late has just appeared on Apple Music. It's my favourite of the ones so far — some gorgeous sweeping strings.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 4, 2021 5:50:18 GMT
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Post by viserys on Jun 4, 2021 6:11:18 GMT
Not very impressed. The Cinderella songs I've heard so far just seem to meander, but never build up to a proper bang the way his old major hits like Memory or Don't cry for me Argentina did.
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