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Post by richey on May 2, 2022 18:26:41 GMT
This situ isn’t unique to theatre though. Companies of all types will take liberties if they can get away with it.. P&O Ferries for example - sacked their workforce by Zoom and hired cheap foreign Labour to replace them the following day. Terrible. As for ranting or going crazy, Summer Strallen’s bf is ranting a fair bit in her live stream, using the F bomb and C bomb multiple times. Then he asks the viewers to let him know if they know who made the decision so that he can “make their life difficult for a while”. Back off Danny, you’re not doing anybody any favours behaving like that, least of all Summer. I agree entirely. His participation felt really inadvisable. She was calm and collected and he was ranting and swearing. Never heard of him before and don’t care to again. Yes, I only watched the first few minutes but he came across as really obnoxious. |
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Post by zak97 on May 2, 2022 18:31:04 GMT
This situ isn’t unique to theatre though. Companies of all types will take liberties if they can get away with it.. P&O Ferries for example - sacked their workforce by Zoom and hired cheap foreign Labour to replace them the following day. Terrible. As for ranting or going crazy, Summer Strallen’s bf is ranting a fair bit in her live stream, using the F bomb and C bomb multiple times. Then he asks the viewers to let him know if they know who made the decision so that he can “make their life difficult for a while”. Back off Danny, you’re not doing anybody any favours behaving like that, least of all Summer. I agree entirely. His participation felt really inadvisable. She was calm and collected and he was ranting and swearing. Never heard of him before and don’t care to again. He was the winner of the grease programme on itv for the grease revival at the Piccadilly |
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Post by LaLuPone on May 2, 2022 18:36:02 GMT
God yeah I found the live unwatchable because of him. Summer can speak for herself and did so a lot more eloquently than he did! I was shocked to find out he was actually an actor afterwards.
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Post by danielwhit on May 2, 2022 18:41:12 GMT
This is one of those shows I had planned to get around to seeing, probably in the summer. Immediately after closing was announced I was thinking about seeing it in late May.
Now - no chance. I get the fact this industry is flexible as all hell and closures get organised pretty swiftly, however this type of behaviour can't be rewarded with more money going into the production.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 2, 2022 18:41:48 GMT
If I was going to be named after a season, I’d be called Autumn.
Just saying!
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 2, 2022 18:43:14 GMT
This is one of those shows I had planned to get around to seeing, probably in the summer. Immediately after closing was announced I was thinking about seeing it in late May. Now - no chance. I get the fact this industry is flexible as all hell and closures get organised pretty swiftly, however this type of behaviour can't be rewarded with more money going into the production. If too many others take that view - which I fully understand - then the show will close even sooner which hurts the cast, crew and staff. Not an easy situation |
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526 posts
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Post by danielwhit on May 2, 2022 18:45:11 GMT
This is one of those shows I had planned to get around to seeing, probably in the summer. Immediately after closing was announced I was thinking about seeing it in late May. Now - no chance. I get the fact this industry is flexible as all hell and closures get organised pretty swiftly, however this type of behaviour can't be rewarded with more money going into the production. If too many others take that view - which I fully understand - then the show will close even sooner which hurts the cast, crew and staff. Not an easy situation Not exactly - as I had no plans to book for the next 6 weeks before yesterday anyway. But yes, not an easy situation all round. |
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2022 20:29:18 GMT
God yeah I found the live unwatchable because of him. Summer can speak for herself and did so a lot more eloquently than he did! I was shocked to find out he was actually an actor afterwards. He's currently in Only Fools and Horses, bit stupid to act unprofessionally on your partner's Instagram. |
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Post by singingbird on May 2, 2022 20:33:05 GMT
There's nothing I can add to comments about this fiasco, really, but it doesn't surprise me. Everything about this show has been a mess from start to finish. I will be stunned if it opens on Broadway. It hardly seems like a viable financial proposition for anyone other than ALW himself.
What I'm interested in is why and how ALW keeps messing up. I know musical theatre is notoriously hard, from both an artistic and business pov, but you'd think that, after 50+ years in the business, he would have mastered his chosen field.
ALW's trajectory is the opposite - he really nails stuff for almost all his first 20 years and then, with each successive show, he gets it a bit more wrong each time until we end up here. School of Rock was a reprieve from this trajectory, but only a very minor one. Cinderella feels like a production from a rooky producer of a show created by a writer just starting out. I just don't get it.
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Post by inthenose on May 2, 2022 20:33:51 GMT
Anyone going tomorrow? I hope a sudden Covid outbreak doesn't happen.
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Post by sweets7 on May 2, 2022 21:09:25 GMT
There's nothing I can add to comments about this fiasco, really, but it doesn't surprise me. Everything about this show has been a mess from start to finish. I will be stunned if it opens on Broadway. It hardly seems like a viable financial proposition for anyone other than ALW himself. What I'm interested in is why and how ALW keeps messing up. I know musical theatre is notoriously hard, from both an artistic and business pov, but you'd think that, after 50+ years in the business, he would have mastered his chosen field. ALW's trajectory is the opposite - he really nails stuff for almost all his first 20 years and then, with each successive show, he gets it a bit more wrong each time until we end up here. School of Rock was a reprieve from this trajectory, but only a very minor one. Cinderella feels like a production from a rooky producer of a show created by a writer just starting out. I just don't get it. Getting older. Just not doing as well as he once did. It happens. |
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Post by spathzthecat on May 2, 2022 21:18:15 GMT
Just got one of the last tickets for the show.
Just seen the bookings for Phantom, they are only half full a month in advance.
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7,060 posts
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2022 21:24:31 GMT
I think ALW has himself admitted in interviews he'd be a lot richer if he's just stuck to composing. It would be interesting to see ALW do a new show where he's only involved in a composer capacity and have the creative decision done by someone else.
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Post by scarpia on May 2, 2022 21:35:15 GMT
I think ALW has himself admitted in interviews he'd be a lot richer if he's just stuck to composing. It would be interesting to see ALW do a new show where he's only involved in a composer capacity and have the creative decision done by someone else. He's said that since Sunset imploded around the world exactly 25 years ago but it's never happened. Up to the peak of his career he still had people questioning him. Even with RUG producing in his post-Stigwood years he either had Cameron co-producing, or had a very strong director such as Trevor Nunn or Hal Prince, or both of these things were the case. These days he's surrounded himself with yes men (as has Cameron). Neither seems interested in doing the sheer hard work it takes for making a show good. That involves a lot of time, a lot of arguing, and a lot of rewrites...and a lot of accepting that you're not going to get your way all the time. In ALW's case as well his work would benefit from genuine workshopping and out-of-town try-outs rather than opening cold in the West End. And no, the Sydmonton Festival is not a workshop. It's not unusual though for artists of various genres (not just MT) to decline like this. 'I prefer their early work' is a cliché applicable to many individuals' output. And even in the MT world it's not uncommon. Rodgers' last few works were not on par with him at his pinnacle, and does anyone seriously put Road Show/ Bounce in the same league as Sweeney? Got to admit, though, I do miss the magic of the days where an announcement of a new show by him was a cause for genuine excitement...and often the scores were so good that you weren't disappointed. But I haven't felt that way since Sunset. |
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Post by Oliver on May 2, 2022 21:48:30 GMT
I think ALW has himself admitted in interviews he'd be a lot richer if he's just stuck to composing. It would be interesting to see ALW do a new show where he's only involved in a composer capacity and have the creative decision done by someone else. "Have an easier life" is what he said, not "be a lot richer". I don't want music 'written to order' in a musical. |
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2022 21:57:01 GMT
I don't want music "written to order" in a musical. Other composers let the creative team make creative decisions for shows or films so ALW's way isn't the highway. |
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Post by Oliver on May 2, 2022 21:57:49 GMT
I think ALW has himself admitted in interviews he'd be a lot richer if he's just stuck to composing. It would be interesting to see ALW do a new show where he's only involved in a composer capacity and have the creative decision done by someone else. He's said that since Sunset imploded around the world exactly 25 years ago but it's never happened. Up to the peak of his career he still had people questioning him. Even with RUG producing in his post-Stigwood years he either had Cameron co-producing, or had a very strong director such as Trevor Nunn or Hal Prince, or both of these things were the case. These days he's surrounded himself with yes men (as has Cameron). Neither seems interested in doing the sheer hard work it takes for making a show good. That involves a lot of time, a lot of arguing, and a lot of rewrites...and a lot of accepting that you're not going to get your way all the time. In ALW's case as well his work would benefit from genuine workshopping and out-of-town try-outs rather than opening cold in the West End. And no, the Sydmonton Festival is not a workshop. It's not unusual though for artists of various genres (not just MT) to decline like this. 'I prefer their early work' is a cliché applicable to many individuals' output. And even in the MT world it's not uncommon. Rodgers' last few works were not on par with him at his pinnacle, and does anyone seriously put Road Show/ Bounce in the same league as Sweeney? Got to admit, though, I do miss the magic of the days where an announcement of a new show by him was a cause for genuine excitement...and often the scores were so good that you weren't disappointed. But I haven't felt that way since Sunset. Trevor Nunn, who you mention as one of these strong creatives, directed Woman in White, so how do you rate that show? Everything that was good about that musical was ALW. |
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Post by Oliver on May 2, 2022 22:00:38 GMT
I don't want music "written to order" in a musical. Other composers let the creative team make creative decisions for shows or films so ALW's way isn't the highway. I prefer his way though, and I like that he actually tells the story dramatically through music, in a way that few others are able to. Take away his creative input into the storytelling and his work would be greatly diminished. |
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Post by inthenose on May 2, 2022 22:02:01 GMT
I think ALW has himself admitted in interviews he'd be a lot richer if he's just stuck to composing. It would be interesting to see ALW do a new show where he's only involved in a composer capacity and have the creative decision done by someone else. "Have an easier life" is what he said, not "be a lot richer". I don't want music 'written to order' in a musical. I do, because I love many of his scores, which are my favourite musicals. Evita, Phantom, Sunset Boulevard are three of my favourite musicals ever. JCS and Joseph are good shows too. I would love him to write scores, never go on television doing talent shows or make a circus of himself ever again. I'd like him to write a beautiful score, hand it over to a world class director, orchestrator and MD and be locked out of rehearsals with absolutely no creative input or producing responsibility whatsoever. That is exactly what I want. |
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Post by Oliver on May 2, 2022 22:04:11 GMT
"Have an easier life" is what he said, not "be a lot richer". I don't want music 'written to order' in a musical. I do, because I love many of his scores, which are my favourite musicals. Evita, Phantom, Sunset Boulevard are three of my favourite musicals ever. JCS and Joseph are good shows too. I would love him to write scores, never go on television doing talent shows or make a circus of himself ever again. I'd like him to write a beautiful score, hand it over to a world class director, orchestrator and MD and be locked out of rehearsals with absolutely no creative input or producing responsibility whatsoever. That is exactly what I want. All of those musicals had his full creative input, I don't know where you're getting the idea that the music was "written to order", certainly not. I will agree with you about the talent shows. |
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Post by Peter on May 2, 2022 22:12:37 GMT
He's said that since Sunset imploded around the world exactly 25 years ago but it's never happened. Up to the peak of his career he still had people questioning him. Even with RUG producing in his post-Stigwood years he either had Cameron co-producing, or had a very strong director such as Trevor Nunn or Hal Prince, or both of these things were the case. These days he's surrounded himself with yes men (as has Cameron). Neither seems interested in doing the sheer hard work it takes for making a show good. That involves a lot of time, a lot of arguing, and a lot of rewrites...and a lot of accepting that you're not going to get your way all the time. In ALW's case as well his work would benefit from genuine workshopping and out-of-town try-outs rather than opening cold in the West End. And no, the Sydmonton Festival is not a workshop. It's not unusual though for artists of various genres (not just MT) to decline like this. 'I prefer their early work' is a cliché applicable to many individuals' output. And even in the MT world it's not uncommon. Rodgers' last few works were not on par with him at his pinnacle, and does anyone seriously put Road Show/ Bounce in the same league as Sweeney? Got to admit, though, I do miss the magic of the days where an announcement of a new show by him was a cause for genuine excitement...and often the scores were so good that you weren't disappointed. But I haven't felt that way since Sunset. Trevor Nunn, who you mention as one of these strong creatives, directed Woman in White, so how do you rate that show? Everything that was good about that musical was ALW. I actually quite liked a lot of it, but the whole thing was ham strung by that set design which limited Nunn’s options - it impacted the lighting (which couldn’t be raised above ‘murky’), the staging, the direction, and the acting choices. The question is, who engaged William Dudley and signed off on the approach - the director or the producers? Not much you can do as director when someone else has already decided to set the whole thing inside a BBC Micro… |
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2022 22:14:59 GMT
I prefer his way though, and I like that he actually tells the story dramatically through music, in a way that few others are able to. Take away his creative input into the storytelling and his work would be greatly diminished. I would say Evita was more Tim Rice's idea than ALW but they were able to create something extraordinary. I bring up Jeeves again but the fact that failed in 1975 proves ALW doesn't always get it right. |
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Post by Peter on May 2, 2022 22:25:46 GMT
I prefer his way though, and I like that he actually tells the story dramatically through music, in a way that few others are able to. Take away his creative input into the storytelling and his work would be greatly diminished. I would say Evita was more Tim Rice's idea than ALW but they were able to create something extraordinary. I bring up Jeeves again but the fact that failed in 1975 proves ALW doesn't always get it right. I’m pretty sure that that experience, and the original Broadway production of Jesus Christ Superstar, were actually motivating factors in him setting up RUG in the first place, in order to get more control and input into how his material was staged. It seems that the writing was on the wall for Jeeves during the tryout in Bristol but he was unable to challenge this to any meaningful effect amid the chaotic production circumstances… The irony seemingly being that now he is in almost full control, and so is similarly unable to be effectively challenged by those around him… |
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Post by chernjam on May 2, 2022 22:33:58 GMT
Got to admit, though, I do miss the magic of the days where an announcement of a new show by him was a cause for genuine excitement...and often the scores were so good that you weren't disappointed. But I haven't felt that way since Sunset. Have to agree with you on this point Scarpia Will never forget the day when I first found Sunset Blvd. the World Premiere Recording. It was those pre-internet days when these CD's were selling as an "import" from stores in NYC that would charge upwards of $150 for the 2 CD set (which as a college student there was no way I could afford). Simply stumbled on it at a much smaller import shop in Allentown PA for $30 (not much more than the usual for a double CD) and was beyond excited to get home and listen the first time and sincerely loved every minute of the 2 + hours, and simply repeated it again... Haven't had that experience since. I liked a lot of WDTW - and have found things to like in subsequent shows (WIW I enjoyed a lot as well) but nothing has matched that experience. |
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Post by djp on May 3, 2022 1:31:51 GMT
Any idea if Cinderella had a particular sales problem , or just not enough seats filled for the boss's liking? Or, put another way, is it part of a bigger problem?
I just ask because I added another unused theatre ticket to my collection last week at the Marlowe - covid at 1 in 17 infected without a mask in sight, is too high a risk for me and my odd endocrinology. But when I looked, the the theatre was only about 30 percent full anyway. And when i today looked at Wicked 5 days before, the next Saturday matinee was also about a third full? is this common now ? If it is do we have a bigger problem than Cinderella not being high on my to see list?
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