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Post by lynette on Jun 16, 2023 17:34:22 GMT
I’m sorry to say that I think the Rufus era has been a disaster for the NT. He didn’t take us anywhere in terms of new work or revivals or classical theatre. My attendance just dwindled even before Covid. The Covid era was certainly bad luck for him but post Covid he should have had a few ideas ready to fly. It reminds me of when he took over. I wonder how these guys operate. If you were up for the big job would you not have a few ideas ready based on phone calls to directors, writers and actors? I do not that some of us are happy with his latest programming but as I browse through the brochure I am not inspired. Lots of new plays rather like a Donmar or a Hampstead programme, nothing to say this is the premier theatre of the UK, we put on the very best of international theatre and classical theatre, we have three dynamic spaces and with a repertoire to suit all ages and tastes….I’m dreaming. I went to see the Motive and Cue recently. Drab foyer, nothing happening there or in the vastly open spaces in front, no buskers, nada. Food offerings poor. ( snacks dire) This new restaurant? Anybody fancy? Honestly, they should get a grip. They sit on what must be one of the most iconic bits of real estate in Europe but could be a converted factory in Wembley. Apologies to Wembley but you get my drift. I’m hoping for a couple of new ADs ( yes I’m a pluralist) with ideas, who can take a company with them and create a vibrant theatre venue.
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Post by Jan on Jun 16, 2023 17:54:35 GMT
Maybe it was policy choice before whereas, now, it's necessary. Occam's razor suggests that if it was a policy choice then it's a policy choice now.
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 16, 2023 17:56:53 GMT
First stab at a summary of the Rufus Norris era in the Telegraph today. It's paywalled but you can avoid it. I won't put the link here because the post will likely be deleted but if you google '12ft ladder' you might find something. www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/what-to-see/rufus-norris-national-theatre/
It focuses on a comparison between Hytner's era and what Norris dished up (Norris suffering in the comparison). It also makes a point of Norris steering the Nash though the instability of the covid years, which might as well have been through the Woke years (surely at least as problematic). Certainly twin issues of great significance. A section >> Rufus Norris: the man who never escaped Nicholas Hytner's shadow
The self-effacing National Theatre director could not match the glamour, innovation and canny self-preservation of his predecessor
With covid and Woke, he has had both barrels of a shotgun through the guts of his tenure which makes it all very difficult to judge from outside the building. IMO!
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Post by Jan on Jun 16, 2023 17:58:27 GMT
I’m sorry to say that I think the Rufus era has been a disaster for the NT. He didn’t take us anywhere in terms of new work or revivals or classical theatre. My attendance just dwindled even before Covid. The Covid era was certainly bad luck for him but post Covid he should have had a few ideas ready to fly. It reminds me of when he took over. I wonder how these guys operate. If you were up for the big job would you not have a few ideas ready based on phone calls to directors, writers and actors? I do not that some of us are happy with his latest programming but as I browse through the brochure I am not inspired. Lots of new plays rather like a Donmar or a Hampstead programme, nothing to say this is the premier theatre of the UK, we put on the very best of international theatre and classical theatre, we have three dynamic spaces and with a repertoire to suit all ages and tastes….I’m dreaming. I went to see the Motive and Cue recently. Drab foyer, nothing happening there or in the vastly open spaces in front, no buskers, nada. Food offerings poor. ( snacks dire) This new restaurant? Anybody fancy? Honestly, they should get a grip. They sit on what must be one of the most iconic bits of real estate in Europe but could be a converted factory in Wembley. Apologies to Wembley but you get my drift. I’m hoping for a couple of new ADs ( yes I’m a pluralist) with ideas, who can take a company with them and create a vibrant theatre venue. I wouldn't say disaster - he's no Greg Doran - but it was a lacklustre appointment. He should have been AD at the Almeida and Rupert Goold should have been at the NT. Nothing to suggest they will make a better appointment next time though.
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Post by Jan on Jun 16, 2023 19:19:28 GMT
First stab at a summary of the Rufus Norris era in the Telegraph today. It's paywalled but you can avoid it. I won't put the link here because the post will likely be deleted but if you google '12ft ladder' you might find something. www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/what-to-see/rufus-norris-national-theatre/
It focuses on a comparison between Hytner's era and what Norris dished up (Norris suffering in the comparison). It also makes a point of Norris steering the Nash though the instability of the covid years, which might as well have been through the Woke years (surely at least as problematic). Certainly twin issues of great significance. A section >> Rufus Norris: the man who never escaped Nicholas Hytner's shadow
The self-effacing National Theatre director could not match the glamour, innovation and canny self-preservation of his predecessor
With covid and Woke, he has had both barrels of a shotgun through the guts of his tenure which makes it all very difficult to judge from outside the building. IMO!
On balance I think he's been the worst AD they've had, it's a toss up between him and Richard Eyre, no question the others were far better.
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Post by Jon on Jun 16, 2023 20:06:38 GMT
The Telegraph's article is quite eye rolling!
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 16, 2023 21:29:40 GMT
Lynette for the job. That is it. She has my vote!
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Post by zahidf on Jun 16, 2023 22:01:27 GMT
I'm not sure I'd agree the bridge was commercially more successful than the national. They had a lot of terrible plays as well
I think Norris has had more hits than misses. Recently especially has been a great run of stuff.
I agree they should do more to welcome people in though, the foyer is a little dull.
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Post by dlevi on Jun 16, 2023 22:48:09 GMT
In the last couple of months the National has turned out some terrific productions: The Crucible, The Corn is Green, Phaedra, The Motive and the Cue, Dancing at Lunghasa and colllectively they almost make up for the financial and artistic debacle that was "hex". But the new writing in the Dorfman has been lackluster ( Dixon and Daughters, anyone?) and as others have pointed out walking into the building isn't the joyful experience it was during the Hytner years - what happened to the Platforms? Why is the bookshop a tourist shop worthy of the London Eye and what's with all the signage saying "Welcome, we're an inclusive space...etc. etc.." Don't announce that you're an inclusive space - simply BE an inclusive space. The National is a great theatre and wonderful institution but it needs to act like a great theatre and unique institution and the nepotism and the elevation of some artists who perhaps aren't ready yet ( Clint Dyer anyone?) is what Rufus will leave behind. Of course there were some great shows but the streamlining changes - no plays in rep, some sets that were down right cheap, the farming out of all the food, the elimination of the Oliver cloak room, etc etc. are the stains on the National's reputation and they're his legacy.
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Post by lynette on Jun 16, 2023 23:02:15 GMT
I'm not sure I'd agree the bridge was commercially more successful than the national. They had a lot of terrible plays as well I think Norris has had more hits than misses. Recently especially has been a great run of stuff. I agree they should do more to welcome people in though, the foyer is a little dull. But the Bridge isn’t the “national” theatre, it is a commercial off West End ( admittedly fab location ) venue which has to wash its face and which post Covid has managed to produce a money making popular and artistically excellent show. The NT is supposed to be quality, represent the nation ( all 4 bits of the UK as it currently stands ) and put on European in translation and other English speaking theatre and classical etc but primarily British Drama, no? We can debate a programme and with three venues there is scope for disagreement, space for new work too. It is now just another theatre in London, just as pricey, fewer facilities than some, offering nothing special.
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Post by lynette on Jun 16, 2023 23:07:40 GMT
My last word ( I can hear ya all) I would not have been at all surprised if the Arts Council had done an ENO on the NT in the last audit, that is remove funding and ask it go somewhere else.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jun 16, 2023 23:11:24 GMT
My last word ( I can hear ya all) I would not have been at all surprised if the Arts Council had done an ENO on the NT in the last audit, that is remove funding and ask it go somewhere else. That was pretty much the proposal in a Yes Prime Minister episode. Sell off the South Bank and make the National Theatre truly National by making them tour! No buildings to manage. And taking theatre to all parts of the country. The arts establishment hated it as it would in real life!
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Post by zahidf on Jun 16, 2023 23:23:32 GMT
I'm not sure I'd agree the bridge was commercially more successful than the national. They had a lot of terrible plays as well I think Norris has had more hits than misses. Recently especially has been a great run of stuff. I agree they should do more to welcome people in though, the foyer is a little dull. But the Bridge isn’t the “national” theatre, it is a commercial off West End ( admittedly fab location ) venue which has to wash its face and which post Covid has managed to produce a money making popular and artistically excellent show. The NT is supposed to be quality, represent the nation ( all 4 bits of the UK as it currently stands ) and put on European in translation and other English speaking theatre and classical etc but primarily British Drama, no? We can debate a programme and with three venues there is scope for disagreement, space for new work too. It is now just another theatre in London, just as pricey, fewer facilities than some, offering nothing special. Oh yeah I only mention the Bridge because the telegraph did. Just felt like a odd comparison, especially in the time frame mentioned. I think the disagreement I have is that the recent years have been good imo. The Hex debacle aside, it's been artistically and commercially sucesful. New season looks good as well Probably needs a few years before we can properly judge it anyway. Covid, Brexit and a hostile to arts funding govt haven't made things easy in recent years
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Post by clarefh on Jun 17, 2023 5:39:46 GMT
The foyer point is a really good one - I was actually thinking that the last time I was there. It doesn’t have much of a buzz at all these days of itself ( more alive when it’s a production with buzz of course). I was actually trying to think why and what’s changed. I was noticing there is quite a lot of dead space there now - not even particular well laid out from a practical perspective.
It’s such a fab and iconic space though - by contrast I was at the Barbican the other day and although not perfect it definitely had more about it ( as an aside did the architecture tour there which I’d thoroughly recommend). The aforementioned Bridge is obviously heaps of fun atm the with Guys and Dolls ( admittedly smaller space and obviously an ideal show to play on).
But the National could do so much more ( although I guess funds are a restriction). For example with the current Dear England where hopefully you might be getting a slightly different audience they could have done so much playing on the football theme and bringing people into the space even if not the play. I’m a big believer in making people comfortable in theatres leading to them trying a play.
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Post by meister on Jun 17, 2023 6:05:36 GMT
Way back they had musical performances in the foyer, just outside the Lyttleton, which at least gave some vibrancy to the atmosphere. The elimination of the Olivier cloakroom is an odd choice as it effectively means a whole level is dead space. The whole thing needs a rethink.
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 17, 2023 7:07:04 GMT
The Barbican is similar in terms of dead public space, probably has a lot more. I guess we only experience it for 20-30 minutes per visit and, based on that vibrant throng, wonder why isn't there much more for us to do. Rest of the time, seems to only appeals to those looking for a toilet, shelter or free wifi. Barbican certainly attracts those types, too. Brutal by design, brutal by experience.
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Post by Jan on Jun 17, 2023 11:33:28 GMT
But the Bridge isn’t the “national” theatre, it is a commercial off West End ( admittedly fab location ) venue which has to wash its face and which post Covid has managed to produce a money making popular and artistically excellent show. The NT is supposed to be quality, represent the nation ( all 4 bits of the UK as it currently stands ) and put on European in translation and other English speaking theatre and classical etc but primarily British Drama, no? We can debate a programme and with three venues there is scope for disagreement, space for new work too. It is now just another theatre in London, just as pricey, fewer facilities than some, offering nothing special. Oh yeah I only mention the Bridge because the telegraph did. Just felt like an odd comparison, especially in the time frame mentioned. I think the disagreement I have is that the recent years have been good imo. The Hex debacle aside, it's been artistically and commercially sucesful. New season looks good as well Probably needs a few years before we can properly judge it anyway. Covid, Brexit and a hostile to arts funding govt haven't made things easy in recent years Brexit is of no relevance to the NT because they haven’t engaged in any way with EU actors, directors or theatres either before or after. Also the current government has been the exact opposite of hostile to arts funding - there were the huge Covid grants and bail-outs and a massive increase in ACE funding in the last funding cycle which only those in London could perceive as ungenerous.
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Post by bordeaux on Jun 17, 2023 11:59:18 GMT
Re Rufus Norris and repertoire, in his generous summing up of the Norris era, Michael Billington recalls an early interview with him in which he challenged Norris on the lack of classic plays. Norris replied that he wanted to achieve gender parity and you can't do that by programmming plays from the male-dominated classical past. Whilst I can understand the desire for gender parity in new writing, it seems absurd and wrong to deny historical reality and the NT's duty to keep the great plays of the past alive. In 35 years of theatre-going with lots of women, I've never met one who turned down a suggestion of Shakespeare, Chekhov, Ibsen or Sophocles on the grounds that they were written by a man. Does anyone outside academe and the arts really think like that? And of course the male-dominated past would presumably mean the era before Norris became AD.
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 17, 2023 12:02:49 GMT
I think NT Live and NT at Home have really taken off under Norris. Was a time, in the recent past, the only recorded material went into the V&A archive and you'd have to book a computer screen in west London to watch it.
Now you can stream almost current productions and the best of the past on your tv, or go to the local cinema if you're living in small town USA and elsewhere (poor internet connections).
Seems to have evolved. Sound balance has been an issue with some productions, time delays others.
Tonight, for example, Fleabag is on in a cinema in Skegness. Good is in cinemas around the world, etc. Seems to be a huge market around the world for well-made, high quality productions. In recent months I've spoken with people in different parts of the country who are very impressed by the close-up nature of much of this stuff. Similar reaction to ROH material which is a little behind the NT but getting there. Very significant international appeal.
It's obv. a different experience to sharing the space with the performers and an audience, but that visual closeness is impressing people.
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Post by bordeaux on Jun 17, 2023 12:04:01 GMT
Jan, I'm afraid I can't agree with you there! I think the Eyre decade was the best I've experienced. In terms of productions of classic plays, including Shakespeare (the odd failure aside), giving new directors a chance and new writing, it was a golden age. I'm a Trevor Nunn fan but with the exception of that truly fabulous year when he did six plays in rep (Merchant of Venice, Troilus and Cressida, Summerfolk etc), his was a relatively lacklustre era. What do you have against Richard Eyre, out of interest?
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 17, 2023 14:59:29 GMT
Way back they had musical performances in the foyer, just outside the Lyttleton, which at least gave some vibrancy to the atmosphere. The elimination of the Olivier cloakroom is an odd choice as it effectively means a whole level is dead space. The whole thing needs a rethink. Plus there was good “canteen style” food outside the Lyttelton….at a decent price, nice, not like the terrible offerings now. I always used to eat at the National. I don’t now.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 17, 2023 15:31:44 GMT
I think NT Live and NT at Home have really taken off under Norris. Was a time, in the recent past, the only recorded material went into the V&A archive and you'd have to book a computer screen in west London to watch it. Yes, it's been very welcome. I remember having lengthy arguments on this site where posters kept telling me how very unlikely an at home streaming NT Live scenario would be, but then along came Covid and here we are! Friends and family with limited mobility and/or income have been able to see plays they would not otherwise be able to access physically at all, and living in the NW of England and with soaringly expensive and very unreliable transport to London it's been a godsend. We've watched and discussed plays together on 3 continents for our international book group. It's no doubt introducing a new generation to plays through the chance to see TV and movie star actors in earlier roles, and hopefully will encourage these youngsters to make real theatre visits in the wake of that.
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Post by cavocado on Jun 17, 2023 15:41:00 GMT
The Festival Hall used to do great food years ago - stuff like a slice of quiche and a choice of nice salads for a reasonable price. Now they use the same expensive, average caterers as (I think) the Barbican, and generate lots of disposable cups, packaging, etc. I used to eat at the FH before NT performances and a few times ended up booking performances/events I saw advertised while I was there - an example of how getting people into these buildings to eat/shelter from rain/use the loos, etc can mean they might also end up experiencing the arts on offer. The NT building was designed to be open to the public, not just theatregoers, and the catering and foyer ought to be welcoming, accessible, buzzing places (but I do also like those apparently unused corners of the NT foyer - good places for solo theatregoers to sit and read before a show).
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Post by lynette on Jun 17, 2023 16:58:23 GMT
The Barbican is similar in terms of dead public space, probably has a lot more. I guess we only experience it for 20-30 minutes per visit and, based on that vibrant throng, wonder why isn't there much more for us to do. Rest of the time, seems to only appeals to those looking for a toilet, shelter or free wifi. Barbican certainly attracts those types, too. Brutal by design, brutal by experience. Ha ha, don’t get me started on the Barbican. They couldn’t even make the floor level there. Absurd theatre space. Been discussed many times here.
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Post by lynette on Jun 17, 2023 16:59:59 GMT
I’m sorry to say that I think the Rufus era has been a disaster for the NT. He didn’t take us anywhere in terms of new work or revivals or classical theatre. My attendance just dwindled even before Covid. The Covid era was certainly bad luck for him but post Covid he should have had a few ideas ready to fly. It reminds me of when he took over. I wonder how these guys operate. If you were up for the big job would you not have a few ideas ready based on phone calls to directors, writers and actors? I do not that some of us are happy with his latest programming but as I browse through the brochure I am not inspired. Lots of new plays rather like a Donmar or a Hampstead programme, nothing to say this is the premier theatre of the UK, we put on the very best of international theatre and classical theatre, we have three dynamic spaces and with a repertoire to suit all ages and tastes….I’m dreaming. I went to see the Motive and Cue recently. Drab foyer, nothing happening there or in the vastly open spaces in front, no buskers, nada. Food offerings poor. ( snacks dire) This new restaurant? Anybody fancy? Honestly, they should get a grip. They sit on what must be one of the most iconic bits of real estate in Europe but could be a converted factory in Wembley. Apologies to Wembley but you get my drift. I’m hoping for a couple of new ADs ( yes I’m a pluralist) with ideas, who can take a company with them and create a vibrant theatre venue. I wouldn't say disaster - he's no Greg Doran - but it was a lacklustre appointment. He should have been AD at the Almeida and Rupert Goold should have been at the NT. Nothing to suggest they will make a better appointment next time though. Just to add, I’m reading the Greg Doran book at the moment. I don’t know why I am surprised but it is very good, giving the history of productions he has been involved with, all 36 of them. Some entertaining anecdotes.
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Post by teamyali on Jun 18, 2023 8:01:41 GMT
When it comes to RuNo, his production of Small Island is one of his big successes as he directed it while Hex was a dud (but does anyone still remember the disaster that was Manor in 2021? Though that’s by the Buffinis but it was staged under RuNo’s tenure as AD). NT Live and NT at Home remain successes.
Reading from the recent comments regarding the use of Dorfman theatre for new plays and not revivals/classics during RuNo’s tenure, I already see Nimax’s @sohoplace becoming the viable venue replacement for Dorfman, and also the Almeida and Donmar. I cannot help but think that @sohoplace’s two recent stagings of classic works, As You Like It & Medea, could have been at the NT but the opportunity to do a show at a shiny brand new theatre with great seats is too good to resist. Nica Burns mentioned that the prices are more affordable than the National’s Olivier theatre (their highest charge was £95 for Medea). Although it’s too early to tell right now what would @sohoplace’s known reputation (so far they’ve staged four productions, the fifth one being a musical this autumn).
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Post by Jan on Jun 18, 2023 11:11:12 GMT
Jan, I'm afraid I can't agree with you there! I think the Eyre decade was the best I've experienced. In terms of productions of classic plays, including Shakespeare (the odd failure aside), giving new directors a chance and new writing, it was a golden age. I'm a Trevor Nunn fan but with the exception of that truly fabulous year when he did six plays in rep (Merchant of Venice, Troilus and Cressida, Summerfolk etc), his was a relatively lacklustre era. What do you have against Richard Eyre, out of interest? I haven’t got anything particularly against him, I just think his tenure was a bit dull, every production I can think of from his time was just …. grey. There were some good things of course. I suppose my dislike of Sir David Hare who Eyre fully indulged is part of my problem. That means I give bonus points to Nunn who has been the only NT AD to date who never put on one of his plays. Nunn was only there 4-5 years so it’s not really valid to compare him with all the 10+ year ADs.
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Post by zahidf on Jun 18, 2023 15:42:51 GMT
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Post by Jan on Jun 18, 2023 17:08:20 GMT
over the next 12 months, 19 out of the NT’s 21 productions will be by living writers That's absolutely incredible, and disgraceful really.
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Post by bordeaux on Jun 18, 2023 20:30:37 GMT
over the next 12 months, 19 out of the NT’s 21 productions will be by living writers That's absolutely incredible, and disgraceful really. I agree. It's absurd. Going back to Richard Eyre, just trying to defend his tenure. Some great productions of Shakespeare - his Richard III with Mckellen and Warner's Lear with Cox, Ian Holm as Lear too, the Mendes/SRB/Harewood Othello, Fiona Shaw's Richard II; Volpone with Gambon and SRB, Borkman with Scofield/Redgrave/Atkins, Fuente Ovejuna, the best Brecht I've ever seen - the McBurney Caucasian Chalk Circle, The Way of the World, An Inspector Calls, Rodney Ackland's Absolute Hell, Machinal, The Voysey Inheritance. Superb Sondheim and other musicals - Sunday in the Park, Sweeney, Little Night Music, Carousel, Guys and Dolls. Amazing new writing: Racing Demon and Skylight (Hare, sorry), Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, Bennett's Single Spies and Madness of George III, Arcadia, Dancing at Lughnasa, Dealer's Choice and Closer, The Cripple of Inishmaan, Broken Glass, The Rise and Fall of Little Voice, Angels in America. Plus giving lots of superb directors a chance to shine on a bigger stage: McBurney/Complicité, Katie Mitchell, Declan Donellan, Stephen Daldry, Deborah Warner, Phyllida Lloyd, Sean Mathias, plus lots of stuff for more established names like Howard Davies and Nick Hytner. Lots of other things too, of course, but my memory of the decade was hit after hit - though of course these things also relate to one's own time of life - I started going to the theatre in London in 1988, the end of the Hall era, so most of that first decade when one is seeing a lot and very excited about everything coincided with Eyre at the National, Kent/McDiarmid at the Almeida and Mendes at the Donmar. A superb decade.
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