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Post by sparky5000 on Apr 11, 2019 1:18:52 GMT
Not London related but wow! She's such an underrated talent IMO! I saw Shoshana at the Apollo in Harlem, NYC last year and she smashed it, such a good night. No one can riff like her! With this song though, as good as she sounds, I wish she’d sing it more how it’s meant to be sung for the musical instead of departing so much from the melody. She does it in the show too (there’s a YouTube vid floating around) and of all the Jennas she’s the one who changes it up the most. |
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Post by sparky5000 on Apr 11, 2019 1:33:12 GMT
It would be cool if they could get Shoshana over for a run when KMP leaves in mid June. She leaves Broadway run in 2nd week May so could have a break and then come over to London for rehearsals and handover. She'd know the role too so would need less time to break in. Plus she'd be a notable name to take over, Shoshana isn’t a big name at all here other than to musical theatre folk (and Wicked stans especially). I think only Sara (or a British star name) would make a bigger difference to the current box office, if that’s what they’re looking for, and even then probably nowhere near to the effect that she has in America. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 10:20:41 GMT
It would be cool if they could get Shoshana over for a run when KMP leaves in mid June. She leaves Broadway run in 2nd week May so could have a break and then come over to London for rehearsals and handover. She'd know the role too so would need less time to break in. Plus she'd be a notable name to take over, Shoshana isn’t a big name at all here other than to musical theatre folk (and Wicked stans especially). I think only Sara (or a British star name) would make a bigger difference to the current box office, if that’s what they’re looking for, and even then probably nowhere near to the effect that she has in America. I often see people fawning over certain Broadway leading ladies on here who are at a similar level to Shoshana and I'd say Shoshana was a more established leading lady than Kat although Kat has a higher profile due to being in a couple of well known TV series in recent years. Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 10:54:21 GMT
I often see people fawning over certain Broadway leading ladies on here who are at a similar level to Shoshana and I'd say Shoshana was a more established leading lady than Kat although Kat has a higher profile due to being in a couple of well known TV series in recent years. Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. People on here are not reflective of the general public, 99.9% of whom will not have heard of Shoshana Bean. And 99% of whom probably won't have heard of Sara Bareilles either, so I'm not sure why anyone thinks she would set the box office alight any more than KMP! |
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Post by Dr Tom on Apr 11, 2019 11:21:13 GMT
Oh well great Broadway show, that’s why it has run over 3 years, poor West End show, that’s why it is been speculated it will close soon, haven’t helped it hasn’t discounted. It's exactly the same show, as far as I can tell. It's just not one that really appeals over here. The Broadway show only survives with discounting and stunt casting. Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. 13 years ago and she was only runner up. Not even sure if that season of American Idol was aired in the UK. It was on ITV2 for a while, but that may have started later. |
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Post by dontdreamit on Apr 11, 2019 12:04:37 GMT
Oh well great Broadway show, that’s why it has run over 3 years, poor West End show, that’s why it is been speculated it will close soon, haven’t helped it hasn’t discounted. It's exactly the same show, as far as I can tell. It's just not one that really appeals over here. The Broadway show only survives with discounting and stunt casting. Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. 13 years ago and she was only runner up. Not even sure if that season of American Idol was aired in the UK. It was on ITV2 for a while, but that may have started later. I watched American Idol back then and remember her from that. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 12:26:24 GMT
Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. Taylor Hicks is hunting you down right now. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Apr 11, 2019 12:42:19 GMT
Oh well great Broadway show, that’s why it has run over 3 years, poor West End show, that’s why it is been speculated it will close soon, haven’t helped it hasn’t discounted. It's exactly the same show, as far as I can tell. It's just not one that really appeals over here. The Broadway show only survives with discounting and stunt casting. Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. 13 years ago and she was only runner up. Not even sure if that season of American Idol was aired in the UK. It was on ITV2 for a while, but that may have started later. Taylor-Hicks-Two-Thousand-Six (2006 American Idol). Loved that series, was a big fan of Daughtry (third place); my sister was a Taylor Hicks fan, has been to the US to see him on tour. I didn't rate KMP much at all ... |
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 11, 2019 15:57:36 GMT
Oh well great Broadway show, that’s why it has run over 3 years, poor West End show, that’s why it is been speculated it will close soon, haven’t helped it hasn’t discounted. It's exactly the same show, as far as I can tell. It's just not one that really appeals over here. The Broadway show only survives with discounting and stunt casting. Kat's American Idol win was a fair few years ago and it didn't really make her a big name in the UK. 13 years ago and she was only runner up. Not even sure if that season of American Idol was aired in the UK. It was on ITV2 for a while, but that may have started later. Sara Barellies appears on Broadway in the graveyard months (January and February) it makes enough box office to survive and this momentum carries the show through for the rest of the year, Sara being both Composer/Lyricist makes a nice little earner, so her little stint in the mean months, makes it a good business management decision for her. So why wouldn’t she open the show in the West End and give this the same momentum? But instead giving to a unknown Katherine McPhee? Waitress has been discounting from virtually Day 1 on Broadway, Both time I saw it in New York, I never paid full ticket price, one of these was seeing the amazing Jessie Mueller, so why are the producers willing to discount on Broadway and have strong attendance and not do the same in London. For me this smacks of from the producers if we can conquer New York, London will be a piece of cake, incidentally I thought the same way of the producers of Memphis and that is another show that should’ve been a hit. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 16:12:13 GMT
Sara being both Composer/Lyricist makes a nice little earner, so her little stint in the mean months, makes it a good business management decision for her. So why wouldn’t she open the show in the West End and give this the same momentum? Because most people won't care who the composer/lyricist is unless it's someone really famous, and Sara just isn't here. She is no more of a name than Kat McPhee, so her taking over wouldn't make much of a difference to the London box office. If they really want to spike sales they need a proper "name". |
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Post by danieljohnson14 on Apr 11, 2019 16:22:01 GMT
Sara being both Composer/Lyricist makes a nice little earner, so her little stint in the mean months, makes it a good business management decision for her. So why wouldn’t she open the show in the West End and give this the same momentum? Because most people won't care who the composer/lyricist is unless it's someone really famous, and Sara just isn't here. She is no more of a name than Kat McPhee, so her taking over wouldn't make much of a difference to the London box office. If they really want to spike sales they need a proper "name". you'd think Kat was famous over here based on the weekly pay she gets. I mean, it's no wonder the show isn't making any money. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 17:56:22 GMT
Agreed,dan,as brill as Kat is she is not a box-office name.Every production decision on this show seems to come from a manual on ‘How NOT to run a successful WE show’.Casting,marketing,media...even basics like merch not being available in the first week of the show...’The fridge magnets have all sold out..we have a fresh order in next week’...no real discounts even now...wonder if the brains-trust behind La Mancha have read the same manual lol
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Post by sparky5000 on Apr 11, 2019 18:07:02 GMT
Agreed,dan,as brill as Kat is she is not a box-office name.Every production decision on this show seems to come from a manual on ‘How NOT to run a successful WE show’.Casting,marketing,media...even basics like merch not being available in the first week of the show...’The fridge magnets have all sold out..we have a fresh order in next week’...no real discounts even now...wonder if the brains-trust behind La Mancha have read the same manual lol I just don’t think they threw enough money at the marketing initially - the show could really have benefitted from a tv appearance performance, but there’s been none. Get Kat on The One Show to sing “She Used To Be Mine” or smtg, although maybe that’s a bad idea (excuse the pun) considering the recent appearances by other musicals that were pilloried 😆 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 18:56:24 GMT
Agreed, sparky 5000, only tv I have seen was a typical swaggering Piers Morgan botched job on THIS MORNING in which Morgan,with Susannah Reid in tow,spent most of the time on the age gap between Kat and her intended,David Foster.At one point Morgan started to reminisce about Foster’s back-catalogue of hit-writing and Foster,who was in the studio but deliberately off-camera,then had to remind Morgan that the interview was in fact arranged to discuss WAITRESS.Kat looked aghast at the whole shoddy mess.
I think that listening back to the US CD there is so much magic in the songs and combined with the staging,characterisation and comedy, it leaves shows like OFAH for dead, but guess which one will survive longest in the WE?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 20:02:31 GMT
I am chuckling to myself ever so slightly as normally on here we complain bitterly about stunt casting, yet here we are with people calling for it.
I do think if Waitress was that good, it wouldn't need a famous composer, a UK 'name' or a never ending marketing fund.
I honestly don't think Come From Away has had any more marketing - and similarly is written by and stars people that the GBP will never have heard of.
When something is GREAT, it catches on. Waitress, whilst I found a not unpleasant evening, is I feel mediocre and unremarkable.
And re it doing better in New York - British taste is very different. You can't assume what works there works here, or vice versa.
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Post by danieljohnson14 on Apr 11, 2019 20:05:20 GMT
Come From Away has that rare success of word of mouth taking on so fast that it doesn't need the extra promo at the moment. It will eventually, but for now it is selling out on what people are saying alone.
That initial thing hasn't happened here, so what they need to really do is go out and promote the show on things like TV. Some deals to get groups in. Better Rush and Dayseat opportunities. Little things that can just push the show into a different frame.
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Post by esteveyb on Apr 11, 2019 22:11:04 GMT
I honestly don't think Come From Away has had any more marketing - and similarly is written by and stars people that the GBP will never have heard of. When something is GREAT, it catches on. Waitress, whilst I found a not unpleasant evening, is I feel mediocre and unremarkable. And re it doing better in New York - British taste is very different. You can't assume what works there works here, or vice versa. Come From Away won Tony's, and is closely aligned to a colossal cultural tragedy that most people remember, or have been told about. It has had more marketing from what I've seen - there's been promotion with specialist magazines and outlets. It also opened in time for award season and is in a theatre that is 2/3 the size of the Adelphi - and has discounts on Today Tix - and still seems to not be sold out, even in this week when it basically dominated the Oliviers. It's a fab musical, don't get me wrong, but it's completely different to Waitress. Waitress, on nights when the upper circle is closed, is probably selling close to as many, if not more, than Come From Away at 100% capacity. I am not sure why they picked such a large theatre when it's far larger than its US home, which, whilst it has devoted, hardcore fans, doesn't always sell that well unless it has star casting. |
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Post by danieljohnson14 on Apr 11, 2019 22:21:36 GMT
I honestly don't think Come From Away has had any more marketing - and similarly is written by and stars people that the GBP will never have heard of. When something is GREAT, it catches on. Waitress, whilst I found a not unpleasant evening, is I feel mediocre and unremarkable. And re it doing better in New York - British taste is very different. You can't assume what works there works here, or vice versa. Come From Away won Tony's, and is closely aligned to a colossal cultural tragedy that most people remember, or have been told about. It has had more marketing from what I've seen - there's been promotion with specialist magazines and outlets. It also opened in time for award season and is in a theatre that is 2/3 the size of the Adelphi - and has discounts on Today Tix - and still seems to not be sold out, even in this week when it basically dominated the Oliviers. It's a fab musical, don't get me wrong, but it's completely different to Waitress. Waitress, on nights when the upper circle is closed, is probably selling close to as many, if not more, than Come From Away at 100% capacity. I am not sure why they picked such a large theatre when it's far larger than its US home, which, whilst it has devoted, hardcore fans, doesn't always sell that well unless it has star casting. Come From Away was full capacity at both shows yesterday and on all reports has been sold out or close to sold out at every performance since January so like I said, sales for them are fine. This idea of selling as many seats as Come From Away is all well and good, but it's not enough to sustain that massive theatre. March that with the behind the scenes antics and ridiculous pay scales for Jack and Kat, there is no way they can make money back if they don't sell out that house every night. It's also an expensive production to run, whereas something like Come From Away is a basic production with a small cast, so it doesn't face the same problems. |
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Post by Mark on Apr 11, 2019 22:23:40 GMT
Did they report the payscales for those two Daniel?
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Post by danieljohnson14 on Apr 11, 2019 22:26:43 GMT
Did they report the payscales for those two Daniel? I have reliable sources who have told me rough numbers, it wouldn't be fair for me to share though if it isn't true or even if it is. |
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Post by anthem on Apr 11, 2019 22:30:00 GMT
Come From Away won Tony's, and is closely aligned to a colossal cultural tragedy that most people remember, or have been told about. It has had more marketing from what I've seen - there's been promotion with specialist magazines and outlets. It also opened in time for award season and is in a theatre that is 2/3 the size of the Adelphi - and has discounts on Today Tix - and still seems to not be sold out, even in this week when it basically dominated the Oliviers. It's a fab musical, don't get me wrong, but it's completely different to Waitress. Waitress, on nights when the upper circle is closed, is probably selling close to as many, if not more, than Come From Away at 100% capacity. I am not sure why they picked such a large theatre when it's far larger than its US home, which, whilst it has devoted, hardcore fans, doesn't always sell that well unless it has star casting. Come From Away was full capacity at both shows yesterday and on all reports has been sold out or close to sold out at every performance since January so like I said, sales for them are fine. This idea of selling as many seats as Come From Away is all well and good, but it's not enough to sustain that massive theatre. March that with the behind the scenes antics and ridiculous pay scales for Jack and Kat, there is no way they can make money back if they don't sell out that house every night. It's also an expensive production to run, whereas something like Come From Away is a basic production with a small cast, so it doesn't face the same problems. Can you elaborate on the ‘behind the scenes antics’ and ‘ridiculous pay scales’, Daniel or is it an unsubstantiated assumption? |
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Post by danieljohnson14 on Apr 11, 2019 22:32:23 GMT
Come From Away was full capacity at both shows yesterday and on all reports has been sold out or close to sold out at every performance since January so like I said, sales for them are fine. This idea of selling as many seats as Come From Away is all well and good, but it's not enough to sustain that massive theatre. March that with the behind the scenes antics and ridiculous pay scales for Jack and Kat, there is no way they can make money back if they don't sell out that house every night. It's also an expensive production to run, whereas something like Come From Away is a basic production with a small cast, so it doesn't face the same problems. Can you elaborate on the ‘behind the scenes antics’ and ‘ridiculous pay scales’, Daniel or is it an unsubstantiated assumption? It wouldn't be fair for me to elaborate on a public forum, but it's not an unsubstantiated assumption. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 22:41:30 GMT
Agreed, sparky 5000, only tv I have seen was a typical swaggering Piers Morgan botched job on THIS MORNING in which Morgan,with Susannah Reid in tow,spent most of the time on the age gap between Kat and her intended,David Foster.At one point Morgan started to reminisce about Foster’s back-catalogue of hit-writing and Foster,who was in the studio but deliberately off-camera,then had to remind Morgan that the interview was in fact arranged to discuss WAITRESS.Kat looked aghast at the whole shoddy mess. I think that listening back to the US CD there is so much magic in the songs and combined with the staging,characterisation and comedy, it leaves shows like OFAH for dead, but guess which one will survive longest in the WE? If the interview was with Kat then I can understand David getting annoyed if Morgan started talking about his back catalogue. If it had been a joint interview then fair enough and it is a fact that they are getting married and fair enough to point out who David is. But Kat was there to plug Waitress not her fiance's considerable music output. I could imagine Morgan dad dancing to St Elmo's fire though! |
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Post by anthem on Apr 11, 2019 22:42:53 GMT
I am chuckling to myself ever so slightly as normally on here we complain bitterly about stunt casting, yet here we are with people calling for it. I do think if Waitress was that good, it wouldn't need a famous composer, a UK 'name' or a never ending marketing fund. I honestly don't think Come From Away has had any more marketing - and similarly is written by and stars people that the GBP will never have heard of. When something is GREAT, it catches on. Waitress, whilst I found a not unpleasant evening, is I feel mediocre and unremarkable. And re it doing better in New York - British taste is very different. You can't assume what works there works here, or vice versa. This is all completely subjective though. Your version of GREAT isn’t necessarily everyone else’s. The critical reviews for Waitress in the UK were generally much more favourable than those for CFA. So who decides what is great and what isn’t? I may be in the minority here but I found CFA to be enjoyable but overrated whereas I loved Waitress and think the score is much stronger. I agree that what resonates in the US doesn’t always resonate here but I feel that linking it to the quality of the show is simplistic and just wrong. If quality were an ingredient needed for success in the West End then ‘Thriller’ would have closed a very long time ago. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 11, 2019 22:58:28 GMT
I am chuckling to myself ever so slightly as normally on here we complain bitterly about stunt casting, yet here we are with people calling for it. I do think if Waitress was that good, it wouldn't need a famous composer, a UK 'name' or a never ending marketing fund. I honestly don't think Come From Away has had any more marketing - and similarly is written by and stars people that the GBP will never have heard of. When something is GREAT, it catches on. Waitress, whilst I found a not unpleasant evening, is I feel mediocre and unremarkable. And re it doing better in New York - British taste is very different. You can't assume what works there works here, or vice versa. This is all completely subjective though. Your version of GREAT isn’t necessarily everyone else’s. The critical reviews for Waitress in the UK were generally much more favourable than those for CFA. So who decides what is great and what isn’t? I may be in the minority here but I found CFA to be enjoyable but overrated whereas I loved Waitress and think the score is much stronger. I agree that what resonates in the US doesn’t always resonate here but I feel that linking it to the quality of the show is simplistic and just wrong. If quality were an ingredient needed for success in the West End then ‘Thriller’ would have closed a very long time ago. This. 100%. Thank you for this post. I don't think we are the minority, I also believe that the Waitress score is way stronger than CFA's, which makes it an overall better show for me. However CFA is a much more mainstream musical, not with the negative meaning of mainstream, but in the way that it's designed to appeal to those who are not typical musical theatre fans. I am really tired of seeing comparisons between these two though. |
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