375 posts
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Post by ctas on Sept 12, 2022 11:24:35 GMT
See How They Sing? Count me in.
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Post by marob on Sept 12, 2022 12:58:50 GMT
Interesting to see he’s using TV to drum up publicity again. Are the long runners struggling? With this and the Mamma Mia TV show can’t help wondering if we’ll see closures.
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Post by inthenose on Sept 12, 2022 15:22:16 GMT
Interesting to see he’s using TV to drum up publicity again. Are the long runners struggling? With this and the Mamma Mia TV show can’t help wondering if we’ll see closures. Phantom is certainly doing no great shakes and is discounting consistently around 30-40%. However, it was doing this prior to closure and lockdown so I wouldn’t read too much into that. When I went it was around 2/3rds full - but the ticket was a steal, plus they do dayseats now. With the show being much, much cheaper to operate now the lack of tourist rebound post-COVID is offset. No clue on Mamma Mia, which frankly I’m astonished is still going at all.
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4,462 posts
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Post by Being Alive on Sept 12, 2022 15:23:17 GMT
Mamma Mia doing remarkably well - not in any risk of closing to my knowledge
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Post by Seriously on Sept 12, 2022 16:17:38 GMT
I'm not sure the producers of a TV series asking to use Phantom as the backdrop for their show is a sign of ALW needing to drum up publicity.
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Post by sukhavati on Sept 13, 2022 2:58:26 GMT
Oh dear? I think that sounds quite fun! Agreed! I'm just remembering the Disney-fication of Darth Vader. He was supposed to be the scary villain until they started having Star Wars days at Walt Disney World and Vader was copying Michael Jackson choreography, or featured in a television advert watching the parade with popcorn or riding the Astro Orbiter or whatever it's called these days. It took Rogue One to make him scary again.
Considering how Phantom has already transitioned, not to mention the multitudes of fanart and fanfics of every ship available that make the character sweet and misunderstood, this is just one more step toward the official cutes...
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18,820 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 13, 2022 5:52:25 GMT
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18,820 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 17, 2022 4:59:07 GMT
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Post by inthenose on Sept 17, 2022 6:19:27 GMT
So *is* Phantom not long for the bong? Realistically, probably. What I will say is everyone is mum and knew nothing about Broadway’s upcoming “closure”.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2022 20:30:49 GMT
My gosh, well the news from NYC, whilst not that surprising in these tough times we are living through my Dears, has certainly made me stop to think. One sometimes imagines the shows one loves will run forever, but all good things must and do come to an end. This is life. This is reality. And through the sadness there can be positivity I think. Life is a journey. Events create change. Otherwise there would be no movement. No evolution. 35 years is amazing. Nobody could have dreamed it in 1988, Dears.
But my main conclusion - how truly lucky we are to have this glorious musical playing in London. I really shall appreciate it all the more now. I was there at the beginning and saw it in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's (my own position on the endless debate I have seen on here is that it had got very tired over the last two decades and now has new life). And now this fresh version which has risen from the ashes of the global hell of the coronavirus. And of which I am very fond.
So where NYC has sadly come to the end of the line, unviable in the current climate, London lives on. Personally I think ALW and CM have taken some brave decisions and I thank them for it - it has ensured, for now at least, the longevity of this glorious production. Bravo!
And so lovely to see 4 and 5 stars accounting for the majority of members here.
Will it stay forever? I doubt it. Tomorrow I will watch the funeral of the Queen. And I think on Tuesday I will get a ticket for Phantom London. My 7th since the lockdowns. I will see it while it's there my Dears. And long may the music of the night serenade our great capital!
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Post by FrontroverPaul on Sept 18, 2022 23:16:45 GMT
Just back from John Owen-Jones' concert at Her Majesty's Theatre tonight.
Highlight of a great show was was John and four other Phantoms performing Music Of The Night together on stage. Earl Carpenter, Ben Forster, Scott Davies and - I think - the current Canadian Phantom whose name I didn't catch.
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Post by thistimetomorrow on Sept 19, 2022 9:59:32 GMT
the current Canadian Phantom whose name I didn't catch. Tim Howar, although I don't think he's currently a Phantom anywhere. He was Phantom in the West End back in 2018 I think?
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392 posts
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Post by Distant Dreamer... on Sept 19, 2022 19:38:34 GMT
the current Canadian Phantom whose name I didn't catch. Tim Howar, although I don't think he's currently a Phantom anywhere. He was Phantom in the West End back in 2018 I think? I don’t remember him? I think this may spell bad news for Phantom in London. Let’s hope not.
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Post by FrontroverPaul on Sept 19, 2022 19:46:17 GMT
Tim Howar, although I don't think he's currently a Phantom anywhere. He was Phantom in the West End back in 2018 I think? I don’t remember him? I think this may spell bad news for Phantom in London. Let’s hope not. I think Tim Howar was announced as the " Canadian Phantom" which I wrongly took to mean that he was playing the role now in Canada, rather than a Canadian who had played the Phantom here in London.
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500 posts
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Post by anthony on Sept 19, 2022 20:53:02 GMT
Just back from John Owen-Jones' concert at Her Majesty's Theatre tonight. Highlight of a great show was was John and four other Phantoms performing Music Of The Night together on stage. Earl Carpenter, Ben Forster, Scott Davies and - I think - the current Canadian Phantom whose name I didn't catch. Carpenter is wonderful. I really hope we'll get to see him as Phantom again...
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Post by inthenose on Sept 20, 2022 0:14:50 GMT
Just back from John Owen-Jones' concert at Her Majesty's Theatre tonight. Highlight of a great show was was John and four other Phantoms performing Music Of The Night together on stage. Earl Carpenter, Ben Forster, Scott Davies and - I think - the current Canadian Phantom whose name I didn't catch. Carpenter is wonderful. I really hope we'll get to see him as Phantom again... Earl’s a strange case. I’ve seen most of Earl’s major credits - Gaston/Beast in “Beauty and the Beast” (West End and tour), Joe in “Sunset Boulevard” (tour with Faith Brown), Bishop of Digne/Javert in “Les Mis” (West End and tour), Perón in “Evita” (tour with Abi Jaye), Khasoggi in “We Will Rock You” (tour) and of course Phantom (West End and tour). But I actually saw a very nervy Earl Carpenter’s debut as The Phantom (Monday 4th September 2003, with an equally nervous Katie Knight-Adams and a young Ramin Karimloo, if you’re curious). He was John Owen-Jones’s new standby, and was thrown in with the new cast all making their debuts. His voice was… very different to how it is now. Those who enjoy bloopers and such should check out his “Mirror” on YouTube from said performance, available on YouTube. Goodness knows who recorded that. ‘Tis all in good fun! Oh, and the boat broke down. His evolution as Phantom was really quite astonishing. I was able to watch him around 10-15 times in the show during his tenure. His voice started off very thin and nasal on his big notes (MotN, Final Lair) but over time, with presumably lots of ongoing vocal coaching, his voice rivalled JoJ’s in power and gravitas. By the time he had played it full-time for a while, he was vocally superb and his acting was moving and sincere. Then… something weird happened. I don’t know if Earl stayed a little too long or perhaps the show was being neglected by the RD, but his performances got very… “big”. His vocals were in his new, brilliant powerful tenor. His acting could be seen from Jupiter.One particular performance I remember was the 20th Anniversary performance in 2006 (the one where he came out at the end and did a Frank Spencer impression!)… his acting was downright hilarious. He was shaking, wildly gesticulating… He was back somewhat to form for the Connor tour (ugh) in 2010, but hindered by that production. So yes, I really, really like Earl and it feels like I’ve seen him run the gamut of roles, his voice markedly changing, his performances ranging from bored (Evita), pantomime (WWRY) to both the sublime and ridiculous (Phantom). I can see him coming back in the future - if the show makes it. He’s probably exactly what is needed for a few years. A steady pair of hands, professionally at least.
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Post by scarpia on Sept 20, 2022 16:21:46 GMT
Agreed he grew into the role. He was rather wobbly I thought back in the standby days but then he made the role his own. I was quite astonished by the transformation after he became principal and then discovered that next to me in the front row, his father was sitting there...which might explain Carpenter putting all he had into it on that particular night.
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Post by inthenose on Sept 20, 2022 17:37:28 GMT
Agreed he grew into the role. He was rather wobbly I thought back in the standby days but then he made the role his own. I was quite astonished by the transformation after he became principal and then discovered that next to me in the front row, his father was sitting there...which might explain Carpenter putting all he had into it on that particular night. I once sat next to Earl’s (now ex, I believe) wife at one show (the wonderful Becky). I’ve also met his Dad! Weird! Earl has had personal knocks from people I know (who worked with him nightly) for coming across a bit above it - Earl has a lot of other interests outside of performing, and isn’t short of money. He phoned in one night I saw at Evita on tour. Looked really bored, wasn’t great in the role. Mark Heenehan (who covered Perón in the 2006 Grandage Evita) was hugely superior. I never saw Earl give a flat show as The Phantom though. He improved tremendously and wasn’t even close to bad to start to with. I’d rather see Earl on a bad night than any of the last handful of Phantom’s I’ve seen - they keep trading down.
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897 posts
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Post by max on Sept 20, 2022 21:32:53 GMT
Tim Howar, although I don't think he's currently a Phantom anywhere. He was Phantom in the West End back in 2018 I think? I don’t remember him? I think this may spell bad news for Phantom in London. Let’s hope not. I guess this could be a further twist to this saga - if Phantom in London endures because the running costs were brought down, in a way Broadway's weren't. It certainly means London will soon be indisputably the closest to The Brilliant Original - lol! Would be great to see them really invest in some daring and interesting casting to make it more of a talking point here. Les Mis seems to be kept more current and in the public eye. But I expect there's more on this in the International thread, so I'll take a look.
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Post by inthenose on Sept 21, 2022 1:03:31 GMT
I don’t remember him? I think this may spell bad news for Phantom in London. Let’s hope not. I guess this could be a further twist to this saga - if Phantom in London endures because the running costs were brought down, in a way Broadway's weren't. It certainly means London will soon be indisputably the closest to The Brilliant Original - lol! Would be great to see them really invest in some daring and interesting casting to make it more of a talking point here. Les Mis seems to be kept more current and in the public eye. But I expect there's more on this in the International thread, so I'll take a look. With the casting I think they tried. Lucy St. Louis was cast, an Asian Carlotta… there was a reason both of these things happened (finally!!). It turned out they weren’t great shakes, but then the show is all about “him” (despite only being on stage under 40 minutes per show). They keep screwing up the casting. With a world class cast I’d be more inclined to be kinder to a budget production - but they just can’t/won’t deliver. I feel bad for the current Phantom, being pushed way beyond his level of ability. It must feel like the weight of the world is on his shoulders.
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392 posts
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Post by Distant Dreamer... on Sept 21, 2022 6:32:16 GMT
I don’t remember him? I think this may spell bad news for Phantom in London. Let’s hope not. IIt certainly means London will soon be indisputably the closest to The Brilliant Original - lol! That should be on the new posters!
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594 posts
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Post by og on Sept 21, 2022 8:54:49 GMT
I don’t remember him? I think this may spell bad news for Phantom in London. Let’s hope not. I guess this could be a further twist to this saga - if Phantom in London endures because the running costs were brought down, in a way Broadway's weren't. It certainly means London will soon be indisputably the closest to The Brilliant Original - lol! Would be great to see them really invest in some daring and interesting casting to make it more of a talking point here. Les Mis seems to be kept more current and in the public eye. But I expect there's more on this in the International thread, so I'll take a look. Fairly sure the Japanese production is an original replica. The world tour edition that was doing the rounds pre-covid 2019 in Manilla and Singapore was original and the creative team involved in the world tour are working on the Mandarin Production to open 2023, so it's quite possible that set may end up in China next year. Which would be quite ironic, China getting the original production and London housing the knock-off.
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Post by scarpia on Sept 21, 2022 10:06:19 GMT
I guess this could be a further twist to this saga - if Phantom in London endures because the running costs were brought down, in a way Broadway's weren't. It certainly means London will soon be indisputably the closest to The Brilliant Original - lol! Would be great to see them really invest in some daring and interesting casting to make it more of a talking point here. Les Mis seems to be kept more current and in the public eye. But I expect there's more on this in the International thread, so I'll take a look. Fairly sure the Japanese production is an original replica. The world tour edition that was doing the rounds pre-covid 2019 in Manilla and Singapore was original and the creative team involved in the world tour are working on the Mandarin Production to open 2023, so it's quite possible that set may end up in China next year. Which would be quite ironic, China getting the original production and London housing the knock-off. Yes, Japan is still the original production, complete with the original designs. The World Tour edition is not quite the original as there were some cutbacks...notably a very strange-looking 'half' chandelier and a missing chunk of the proscenium that housed the Angel (which instead put on the stage). The statues on the sides on the proscenium also went AWOL.
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Post by SuttonPeron on Sept 21, 2022 11:37:27 GMT
I do have a feeling RUG will replace Hal Prince´s associates who directed Japan and the World Tour with Sklar-Heyn, "for consistency´s sake" or whatever.
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1,875 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Sept 22, 2022 10:53:56 GMT
Agreed he grew into the role. He was rather wobbly I thought back in the standby days but then he made the role his own. I was quite astonished by the transformation after he became principal and then discovered that next to me in the front row, his father was sitting there...which might explain Carpenter putting all he had into it on that particular night. I once sat next to Earl’s (now ex, I believe) wife at one show (the wonderful Becky). I’ve also met his Dad! Weird! Earl has had personal knocks from people I know (who worked with him nightly) for coming across a bit above it - Earl has a lot of other interests outside of performing, and isn’t short of money. He phoned in one night I saw at Evita on tour. Looked really bored, wasn’t great in the role. Mark Heenehan (who covered Perón in the 2006 Grandage Evita) was hugely superior. I never saw Earl give a flat show as The Phantom though. He improved tremendously and wasn’t even close to bad to start to with. I’d rather see Earl on a bad night than any of the last handful of Phantom’s I’ve seen - they keep trading down. Also, there were a lot of rumours around the Sunset Boulevard first UK tour, all those years ago. He didn't finish the run and I'm sure I heard that there was conflict with Faith Brown....
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Post by inthenose on Sept 22, 2022 11:37:28 GMT
I once sat next to Earl’s (now ex, I believe) wife at one show (the wonderful Becky). I’ve also met his Dad! Weird! Earl has had personal knocks from people I know (who worked with him nightly) for coming across a bit above it - Earl has a lot of other interests outside of performing, and isn’t short of money. He phoned in one night I saw at Evita on tour. Looked really bored, wasn’t great in the role. Mark Heenehan (who covered Perón in the 2006 Grandage Evita) was hugely superior. I never saw Earl give a flat show as The Phantom though. He improved tremendously and wasn’t even close to bad to start to with. I’d rather see Earl on a bad night than any of the last handful of Phantom’s I’ve seen - they keep trading down. Also, there were a lot of rumours around the Sunset Boulevard first UK tour, all those years ago. He didn't finish the run and I'm sure I heard that there was conflict with Faith Brown.... Faith was very close to Norma, if you get me, so I’m not sure how much Earl is to blame for this one!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2022 17:35:43 GMT
I honestly don't see anything wrong with Killian Donnelly and Lucy St Louis and find the criticism of them here rather unfair.
Is Killian the best Phantom I have ever seen? No, possibly not. Is he much better than many from the last 15 years? Oh yes, absolutely. He has a strong voice, and ok whilst perhaps not the most dynamic is very much a "safe pair of hands." And I think that is exactly what this show needed emerging from the coronavirus disaster-scape!
LSL again, not the vocally strongest Christine I have seen, but I think has a very sweet quality to her voice. I also find her a very charming Christine and has a sweetness, subtlety and vulnerability that makes her deserving of this role. She's also so delightful in interviews and publicity - every bit the leading lady!
They are also both consummate professionals. Reliable, hard working, giving of their time at stage door (but without the madness and frankly very odd antics that happens at some stage doors these days). Positive, humble people, who lead a company brilliantly. Well of course you may say, what relevance is that to what the good paying British public see on stage? But I would say these things do translate my Dears. Happy companies give the best shows, they really do!
Anyway, not really sure where I am going with this other than putting across that IMHO they are deserving of their roles and putting in great performances. And I don't really understand where the negativity comes from (other than, interestingly, from many people who don't actually seem to have gone to see them.....)
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1,445 posts
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Post by steve10086 on Sept 22, 2022 18:16:16 GMT
I get where the negativity about Killian comes from. He’s awful. Maybe there have been worse Phantoms, but that’s not the point. He’s totally unsuited to the role.
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18,820 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 22, 2022 18:28:55 GMT
I don’t think he is as good as Phantom as he was as JVJ (and I thought he was fantastic in Les Mis) but I don’t agree with “awful”. Why is he unsuited? Isn’t that what they said about Michael Crawford?
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Post by scarpia on Sept 22, 2022 18:46:50 GMT
I honestly don't see anything wrong with Killian Donnelly and Lucy St Louis and find the criticism of them here rather unfair. [...] LSL again, not the vocally strongest Christine I have seen, but I think has a very sweet quality to her voice. I also find her a very charming Christine and has a sweetness, subtlety and vulnerability that makes her deserving of this role. She's also so delightful in interviews and publicity - every bit the leading lady! [....] And I don't really understand where the negativity comes from (other than, interestingly, from many people who don't actually seem to have gone to see them.....) From reading the thread it looks like everyone criticising Killian has gone to see him. I haven't seen LSL and am indifferent to her as a performer from the clips (other than in the released title track where she sounds bad), but I don't find her delightful in publicity interviews. Not only did she keep repeatedly peddling the 'bigger and better' thing, which I thought was cruel and insensitive given the job losses and the decimation of the orchestra, but she also outright lied in that interview to the Guardian where she says what an achievement it is to sing on the travelator and then hit a high E in the title song...when the whole thing is pre-rec.
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