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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2024 23:04:20 GMT
Yep likes of Abbott and Rayner saying what they like about other parties but if anyone insults one of them they claim racism/victimisation.
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Post by jojo on Jun 2, 2024 8:59:53 GMT
The NHS has had above inflation spending increases every single year the Conservatives have been in power both in absolute and over the whole period in per capita terms too and yet it has got worse in terms of waiting lists and patient outcomes compared to EU mixed public/private insurance based systems like the Netherlands. Do Labour voters not worry that simply spending even more on it simply won’t work ? For example if you give junior doctors a 35% pay increase as they want how will that improve matters ? Junior doctors have had a real terms pay cut in recent years, and restoring it to its former level would require a rise of 35% Framing the request for pay restoration as simply a 35% pay increase is not fair, and misses the point IMO. Apart from anything else, the 35% request is a starting point of negotiations, and just shows the difference between what is being offered to what is reasonable. Many of our junior doctors are leaving the UK to work in Australia and elsewhere. It's getting worse with each passing year, and while it's already causing problems, there's a ticking time-bomb to us having a shortage of skilled consultants. Consultants have had enough too, but are usually that bit older so more settled here and the pull of better pay and conditions abroad comes with more personal consequences. As I said above, staff retention is about more than pay, but when your salary, as well as your conditions are insulting, it's no surprise we're short-staffed. And a reminder that paying public sector workers a liveable wage is good for the economy and the arts, because they, more than bankers, are the ones spending money in the high street and in theatres. It's all very well saying that NHS spending has increased above inflation, and even if you account for the increase in the population - have you accounted for the aging population? The NHS is arguably a victim of its success. If you save someone from a heart attack in their 50s or cure their cancer in their 60s, they live long enough to come back again in their 70s and 80s in need of a hip replacement or a second round of cancer treatment. This is a good problem to have, but it means it will be more expensive. We spend less per head of population on the NHS than equivalent European countries - and way less than America (who have worse health outcomes). So if we decide as a nation that we don't want to spend as much as our neighbouring countries - how do we do that? It's not just an aging population. Younger people are less healthy than their parents, and we're only in the foothills of that additional pressure on the NHS. This is an area where we're not as bad as the Americans, but worse than our European neighbours. The reasons are many and complex, but bad food and not enough exercise are big factors. We need long-term thinking with more investment in public health, which includes anti-poverty measures. More investment in active travel, ensure that newer developments are less car-centric, and allowing access to nature, alongside some kind of regulation of Ultra-Processed Foods and restricting the powers of the multi-national 'edible chemicals' industry. And fix dentistry. You can't eat well if you can only eat soft foods.
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Post by mkb on Jun 2, 2024 13:25:03 GMT
If the story’s true, it was agreed she was supposed to be reinstated, announce she was stepping down, they’d issue some blandishments thanking her for decades of service, and then off she’d go. Instead they briefed the media against her. I hope she does stand, and I hope she wins. She was suspended for saying, in a letter, that Jews, Travellers, and Irish can’t be subject to racism. ... Except she didn't. What she actually said is that "they are not all their lives subject to racism." She has a point, albeit very poorly expressed. If I, as a gay man, walk around in public, I am not going to experience prejudice from strangers, because they will have no idea of my sexuality. Skin colour on the other hand is not so easy to hide. Clearly the argument does not work for people who reveal aspects of their identity through appearance or behaviour, as they have every right to do.
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Post by aspieandy on Jun 3, 2024 6:35:51 GMT
There was enthusiasm for 'New Labour' in the 90s - we knew who the personalities were before the election, there was a 'story' and a 'journey', we had a clear idea of where they stood even if those of us further Left weren't happy about some of their agenda. There are no political 'big beasts' now in the way there were then. Bluntly, I don't think Starmer and co are as intelligent as their predecessors. We're very much in an era of second, even third rate politicians here and in the USA. Well, the former head of the DPP has run the most complete strategy I've ever seen; ruthless, clear-eyed leadership. A consumate political pragmatist.
Hasn't been easy to de-toxify the brand. But he has done that, and built a lead that may well exceed Blair in '97.
I am wary of him because no one can be sure what will come after the election but I admire how he has shaped a 20-point lead and, so far, kept it. You assume Raynor and her powerful clan will keep him honest to traditional Labour values.
Obv. he has had the advantage of the Tories shooting themselves in both feet and then the head.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 3, 2024 11:18:11 GMT
Well, the former head of the DPP has run the most complete strategy I've ever seen; ruthless, clear-eyed leadership. A consumate political pragmatist. I know what his old job was, but there are different types of skill and intelligence and I don't think there are many in the current House of Commons who are of the calibre of the sort of person who went into politics a generation or more ago. It's a very frustrating thing to see people - some in literature, the media, or writing TV comedies, who are clearly bright, politically engaged and good communicators and passionate about some issues but chose those other fields instead. I think it's partly the effect of shows like HIGNFY or The Thick of It or the Paxman Newsnight 'why is this lying bastard lying to me', or the way in recent years real decision-making power shifted to Brussels or big corporations, instilling the idea for a couple of generations of youngsters that politics is an ignoble profession, charlatans like Johnson or hapless fools pushed around by spin doctors, and not an attractive one. (It's also why I've changed my mind over the years on the (now reformed) House of Lords - it's a valuable resource with the likes of Professor Robert Winston et al)
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Post by Jon on Jun 3, 2024 11:23:01 GMT
Well, the former head of the DPP has run the most complete strategy I've ever seen; ruthless, clear-eyed leadership. A consumate political pragmatist. I know what his old job was, but there are different types of skill and intelligence and I don't think there are many in the current House of Commons who are of the calibre of the sort of person who went into politics a generation or more ago. It's a very frustrating thing to see people - some in literature, the media, or writing TV comedies, who are clearly bright, politically engaged and good communicators and passionate about some issues but chose those other fields instead. I think it's partly the effect of shows like HIGNFY or The Thick of It or the Paxman Newsnight 'why is this lying bastard lying to me', or the way in recent years real decision-making power shifted to Brussels or big corporations, instilling the idea for a couple of generations of youngsters that politics is an ignoble profession, charlatans like Johnson or hapless fools pushed around by spin doctors, and not an attractive one. Politics is not for everyone, you can't force people to go into it.
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Post by aspieandy on Jun 3, 2024 11:27:22 GMT
crowblack I'm sure you are right. However, I do think Starmer is more an astute politician than some believe. It's not tv, it's the inability to earn a living that is the problem (that allows MPs to send their kids to *good schools*, pay a mortgage and generally provide a middle-class lifestyle for a family)- combined with the lure of The City where they see their friends from Uni making multiples of what they earn, for a lot less effort. Both Starmer and Sunak are 2nd career politicians, having made their money in The City and at the Bar. Other senior politicians are supported by high earning partners, or family money. Very few are old-school working class. Even my local MP - Corbyn - made his money decades ago with his brother.
MPs pay sounds a lot to some but, with the skill set they mostly have, there are many opportunities out there in the £000'sK
Even the high principled Diane Abbott sent her son to private school ..
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Post by crowblack on Jun 3, 2024 11:34:21 GMT
Politics is not for everyone, you can't force people to go into it. I wasn't suggesting anyone be forced into anything!
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Post by mkb on Jun 3, 2024 12:25:08 GMT
crowblack I'm sure you are right. However, I do think Starmer is more an astute politician than some believe. It's not tv, it's the inability to earn a living that is the problem (that allows MPs to send their kids to *good schools*, pay a mortgage and generally provide a middle-class lifestyle for a family)- combined with the lure of The City where they see their friends from Uni making multiples of what they earn, for a lot less effort. Both Starmer and Sunak are 2nd career politicians, having made their money in The City and at the Bar. Other senior politicians are supported by high earning partners, or family money. Very few are old-school working class. Even my local MP - Corbyn - made his money decades ago with his brother.
MPs pay sounds a lot to some but, with the skill set they mostly have, there are many opportunities out there in the £000'sK
Even the high principled Diane Abbott sent her son to private school .. I'm not sure I buy the argument that money is the problem. Most people I know, some of them very passionate about social justice and changing society for the better, just want to be financially comfortable and don't hanker after vast wealth, as nice as that might be were it to come along. The vast majority of people with good talents don't take high-flying jobs. To put your head above the parapet and take on public office today, you need to have a skin thicker than most empathetic people can muster, to have carefully hidden all skeletons in your closet, and to be prepared for a complete invasion of your privacy. Look for the sort of single-minded, ego-driven people for whom none of that is a problem, and you have the calibre of politicians we typically create nowadays.
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Post by aspieandy on Jun 3, 2024 13:09:39 GMT
I don't know if you have children but the world looks very different when you are charged with providing opportunites for positive life outcomes, to the best of your ability.
School fees literally define the life choices of a broad class - people like Matt Hancock didn't go on those tv shows for the sake of it. People don't publish books or diaries for the sake of it. Hancock did what he had to do to pay for a divorce and keep the kids in fee-paying schools. For those who do not come from money but have the ability to generate money, the biggest factor driving decisions is school fees.
edit: Lizz Truss is another example; she didn't suddenly become more 'right-wing'. She needs income (2 kids?) so wrote a book intended to appeal to the US lecture/book signing circuit, and filled her boots as best that allowed. Boris Johnson has how many children - six? Perpetually flogging something across the pond.
PM before that: Theresa May: Not - no kids, husband in the City.
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Post by mkb on Jun 3, 2024 13:55:05 GMT
Google tells me that 5.9% of UK kids go to private schools, so I wouldn't call that a "broad" class.
There's a good argument to be made that money should not be the attraction for potential MPs. Then maybe we might get fewer of the school-fee-paying set and more people with actual ability and passion.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 3, 2024 15:26:42 GMT
And now Nige has entered the race. I suspect he wasnt getting enough attention.
Good to see the Tories will now sweat a bit more
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Post by Jon on Jun 3, 2024 15:54:15 GMT
And now Nige has entered the race. I suspect he wasnt getting enough attention. Good to see the Tories will now sweat a bit more I can't help but think this will just split the vote between the Conservatives and Reform. The current MP had a very comfortable majority in the last election so may be difficult for Farage to overcome
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Post by mkb on Jun 3, 2024 16:19:58 GMT
And now Nige has entered the race. I suspect he wasnt getting enough attention. Good to see the Tories will now sweat a bit more I can't help but think this will just split the vote between the Conservatives and Reform. The current MP had a very comfortable majority in the last election so may be difficult for Farage to overcome On Twitter, @britainelects is predicting, without factoring in personalities: CON: 32% (-40) REF: 24% (+24) LAB: 24% (+8) However, their analyst, Ben Walker, wrote an article back in January citing a poll that found with Farage standing: REF: 37% CON: 27% LAB: 23% www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2024/01/nigel-farage-finally-become-mp-clactonThere's another 10% or so between the Greens and Lib Dems. Given the media focus this seat will now inevitably get and how that can influence voters, were they to throw their weight behind a resurgent Labour as the only viable chance of unseating the right here, who knows how this will pan out. My money is on Farage taking it though.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 3, 2024 17:45:54 GMT
And now Nige has entered the race. I suspect he wasnt getting enough attention. Good to see the Tories will now sweat a bit more And the clattering of zimmer frames down Clacton seafront is palatable.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 3, 2024 21:21:43 GMT
I think Farage could be trouble for Labour too, in the red wall / blue wall areas as well as Sun reader territory down south.
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Post by n1david on Jun 3, 2024 21:25:42 GMT
I am slightly bemused that amongst all the complaints that politics programmes focus on personality rather than policies, the BBC Ten O'Clock News leads on the personality Nigel Farage rather than the policy announcements of Conservative and Labour today. And how many of the talking heads on Farage say "he's where he likes to be, the focus of attention". Well, given he's a 7-time loser and UKIP have won precisely one seat in a UK General Election (far fewer than the Greens, or Plaid Cymru) - who exactly made him "the focus of attention"?
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Post by crowblack on Jun 3, 2024 22:46:29 GMT
Well, given he's a 7-time loser and UKIP have won precisely one seat in a UK General Election (far fewer than the Greens, or Plaid Cymru) - who exactly made him "the focus of attention"? Fwiw (nothing) I've sent the BBC plenty of complaints over the years about the people they seem to have on speed dial, the same handful of obnoxious sh*t stirrers the BBC gets on time after time because UK programme makers are following the tawdry Fox News model, more interested in generating heat than light. Farage did have a massive impact though - Brexit. He's not just a footnote in UK politics. Ironically, if we were more 'European' with that kind of continental voting system, he'd have even more political power.
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Post by n1david on Jun 3, 2024 23:17:28 GMT
I agree that he made a massive impact on British politics, but the referendum was 8 years ago and he wasn't even the leader of the official Brexit campaign team. You're right that he was important, but he's done nothing meaningful in domestic or European politics since the referendum apart from condemning UK politicians without providing constructive alternatives. He's been a force for discord and disharmony without any positive proposals.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 3, 2024 23:37:56 GMT
Nigel Farage will win in Clacton, he will become an mp for the first time, congratulations- in a seat that Labour/Liberals have no chance of winning, it is also one less Tory seat, Nigel will boost Reform votes in the South of England at the expense of the Tories, which also will mean that Reform will not benefit by winning any seats, but the Liberals will. There are 25 seats that are marginal Tory/Liberal, if current opinion polls are anything to go by and a swing in these seat to Liberal, also it is a small number of seats for the Liberals to run a decent campaign in - Then that swing would be enough to make the Liberals His Majesty’s opposition.
We could have a Canadian style meltdown.
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Post by nick on Jun 4, 2024 6:53:26 GMT
Nigel Farage will win in Clacton, he will become an mp for the first time, congratulations- in a seat that Labour/Liberals have no chance of winning, it is also one less Tory seat, Nigel will boost Reform votes in the South of England at the expense of the Tories, which also will mean that Reform will not benefit by winning any seats, but the Liberals will. There are 25 seats that are marginal Tory/Liberal, if current opinion polls are anything to go by and a swing in these seat to Liberal, also it is a small number of seats for the Liberals to run a decent campaign in - Then that swing would be enough to make the Liberals His Majesty’s opposition. We could have a Canadian style meltdown. Gosh. That analysis seems so plausible. Is It Farage's plan? Destroy the Tory party so, either, he becomes Tory leader or Reform replaces the Tories? Do we end up with a proper three party system? Left, Middle and Right? Now that seems quite exciting.
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Post by ceebee on Jun 4, 2024 10:21:27 GMT
Recon coalition anybody?
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 4, 2024 10:37:10 GMT
Nigel Farage will win in Clacton, he will become an mp for the first time, congratulations- in a seat that Labour/Liberals have no chance of winning, it is also one less Tory seat, Nigel will boost Reform votes in the South of England at the expense of the Tories, which also will mean that Reform will not benefit by winning any seats, but the Liberals will. There are 25 seats that are marginal Tory/Liberal, if current opinion polls are anything to go by and a swing in these seat to Liberal, also it is a small number of seats for the Liberals to run a decent campaign in - Then that swing would be enough to make the Liberals His Majesty’s opposition. We could have a Canadian style meltdown. Gosh. That analysis seems so plausible. Is It Farage's plan? Destroy the Tory party so, either, he becomes Tory leader or Reform replaces the Tories? Do we end up with a proper three party system? Left, Middle and Right? Now that seems quite exciting. Farage and the rest of the Tufton Street mafia hate Rishi Sunak, after he took knocked the king (Johnson) off the horse. So Farage and Reform are desperate for Rishi to fail. The Conservative parliamentary party is very different to the 2019 Conservative parliamentary party. For the record Rishi stands no chance of winning after Johnson/Truss, he is a better Prime Minister than those two and I would include Theresa May in that.
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Post by vdcni on Jun 4, 2024 12:40:14 GMT
Reform look like at most winning 1 seat. Can't really make a coalition from that.
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Post by ceebee on Jun 4, 2024 14:25:27 GMT
Reform look like at most winning 1 seat. Can't really make a coalition from that. Some surveys indicate a three-way split in the late 20's% for Con/Ref/Lab with Lib/Green/Other taking the crumbs. I still think a hung parliament is possible, particularly as Farage gives the ABL's an alternative to spoiling their papers.
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