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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 6, 2024 11:22:33 GMT
Would Galloway get enough votes to be a significant player under PR? I would doubt it, he's able to capitalise in by-elections and local campaigns but PR would usually come with a vote share threshold to obtain representation, and I struggle to see a timeline where he breaks the 2-3% threshold you would anticipate being in place nationwide. PR could galvanise a left leaning candidate though. The left in the country could pick up 10%, maybe 15% of the vote if it was a candidate people could rally behind |
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Post by punxsutawney on Jun 6, 2024 13:39:37 GMT
I would doubt it, he's able to capitalise in by-elections and local campaigns but PR would usually come with a vote share threshold to obtain representation, and I struggle to see a timeline where he breaks the 2-3% threshold you would anticipate being in place nationwide. PR could galvanise a left leaning candidate though. The left in the country could pick up 10%, maybe 15% of the vote if it was a candidate people could rally behind Galloway isn't appealing to most of the left nowadays; too regressive on social issues. He can win in certain places, or in circumstances where he doesn't have to campaign on those issues, but he will struggle to win a broader national appeal. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 6, 2024 14:04:39 GMT
PR could galvanise a left leaning candidate though. The left in the country could pick up 10%, maybe 15% of the vote if it was a candidate people could rally behind Galloway isn't appealing to most of the left nowadays; too regressive on social issues. He can win in certain places, or in circumstances where he doesn't have to campaign on those issues, but he will struggle to win a broader national appeal. Sorry more a rally behind a Corbynesque figure |
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Post by jojo on Jun 6, 2024 14:45:04 GMT
Probably because if we believe in democracy, we should believe in the views of the people being fairly represented by the system. I despise Farage and Galloway, but if they are elected fairly by a significant proportion of the electorate, then that would be a fair outcome. Would Galloway get enough votes to be a significant player under PR? Galloway doesn't need PR to get elected. He's been an MP of four different constituencies under the current FPTP system. IMO the likes of Galloway thrive on adversarial politics. He is great at telling us why other people are terrible, which is an approach rewarded by FPTP. He thrives on being seen at the under-dog, appealing to those who don't think the current political system represents them - as do most divisive political figures. It's the system that pushes people towards the extremes. I don't know that PR would necessarily shut out those politicians, but it would be harder for them to disrupt a more stable system. Preferential voting systems mean that candidates that focus on positive policies, and how they would work with others are not discriminated against. Instead of licking wounds after a bruising campaign of attacks and counter-attacks, where politicians from different political parties emphasise their differences, they can admit to common ground, and so get straight on with working on those projects that most voters support. Under FPTP small swings in public opinion can lead to massive changes of government, with the new administration bringing in disruptive changes for the sake of it. With PR the changes in government reflect rate of change of public opinion, so long-term planning is possible and will be rewarded. As it is, politicians rarely see the point in investing in something that won't bear obvious fruit before the next election. The result is short-termism, which is hugely wasteful of money and opportunity. |
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Post by Peter on Jun 6, 2024 17:44:46 GMT
Well last night it seemed Game, Set & Match when Keir didn’t really challenge Sunak over that £2000 each families has to pay annually. Which it turns out was lies anyway - or at least prompted the highest civil servant in the Treasury to disavow the numbers as anything but politically motivated hot air (not his exact words!). But there seems to be a certain slice of the political class who have no moral qualms with throwing this kind of disinformation around to score points (see also: Brexit)… |
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Post by zahidf on Jun 7, 2024 7:57:57 GMT
Sunak publicly apologises for leaving D Day celebrations early to film an interview for ITV 9 which isnt due to be aired for 6 days)
Well done for annoying the core vote who'll be offended by this. Sunak has zero political instincts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 7, 2024 8:23:56 GMT
Sunak publicly apologises for leaving D Day celebrations early to film an interview for ITV 9 which isnt due to be aired for 6 days) Well done for annoying the core vote who'll be offended by this. Sunak has zero political instincts I know he was dealt a pretty poor hand following Johnson and Truss but he’s not even trying to win the election. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 7, 2024 8:25:02 GMT
Would Galloway get enough votes to be a significant player under PR? Galloway doesn't need PR to get elected. He's been an MP of four different constituencies under the current FPTP system. IMO the likes of Galloway thrive on adversarial politics. He is great at telling us why other people are terrible, which is an approach rewarded by FPTP. He thrives on being seen at the under-dog, appealing to those who don't think the current political system represents them - as do most divisive political figures. It's the system that pushes people towards the extremes. I don't know that PR would necessarily shut out those politicians, but it would be harder for them to disrupt a more stable system. Preferential voting systems mean that candidates that focus on positive policies, and how they would work with others are not discriminated against. Instead of licking wounds after a bruising campaign of attacks and counter-attacks, where politicians from different political parties emphasise their differences, they can admit to common ground, and so get straight on with working on those projects that most voters support. Under FPTP small swings in public opinion can lead to massive changes of government, with the new administration bringing in disruptive changes for the sake of it. With PR the changes in government reflect rate of change of public opinion, so long-term planning is possible and will be rewarded. As it is, politicians rarely see the point in investing in something that won't bear obvious fruit before the next election. The result is short-termism, which is hugely wasteful of money and opportunity. I think we are in agreement |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 7, 2024 8:31:14 GMT
Sunak publicly apologises for leaving D Day celebrations early to film an interview for ITV 9 which isnt due to be aired for 6 days) Well done for annoying the core vote who'll be offended by this. Sunak has zero political instincts One wonders if it was a deliberate test / trap, but if so, was it by ITV or his own advisors, the same ones who told him to go out into Downing Street the rain? The main beneficiary will be, I'm afraid, Farage (though in polls yesterday Farage was clearly taking votes from Labour too - they were down a percent or two in all the polls taken after Farage announced he was standing) |
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Post by punxsutawney on Jun 7, 2024 9:22:26 GMT
Galloway isn't appealing to most of the left nowadays; too regressive on social issues. He can win in certain places, or in circumstances where he doesn't have to campaign on those issues, but he will struggle to win a broader national appeal. Sorry more a rally behind a Corbynesque figure Oh, in that case I agree certainly; or at the very least we'd see a stronger Green Party at 10-15% of the national vote. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 7, 2024 9:25:57 GMT
Sorry more a rally behind a Corbynesque figure Oh, in that case I agree certainly; or at the very least we'd see a stronger Green Party at 10-15% of the national vote. That’s a good point |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jun 7, 2024 9:32:01 GMT
Sunak publicly apologises for leaving D Day celebrations early to film an interview for ITV 9 which isnt due to be aired for 6 days) Well done for annoying the core vote who'll be offended by this. Sunak has zero political instincts I don't know about offended, but most people should think that's a poor thing to do. Leader of the country leaving such a big event is bad, whichever party you belong to. Honouring D Day veterans should not be seen as a political issue. |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 7, 2024 9:41:35 GMT
I don't know about offended, but most people should think that's a poor thing to do. Older lifelong Tory voter on the radio just now was very upset. If she's representative of the generation Tories rely on as their base, a generation whose parents, many even themselves remember the war, the Tories will be wiped out, unless they do a last minute leadership change. |
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Post by karloscar on Jun 7, 2024 9:41:41 GMT
France has indicated that Tetchy Titchy Richie originally had no intention of attending the DDay commemorations at all, as he had more important things to do. His pathetic partial performance was a compromise it seems. He REALLY wants to lose and lose badly, doesn't he? Is it to late for his local party to reject him as their chosen candidate? That would be hilarious.
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Post by vdcni on Jun 7, 2024 9:57:52 GMT
It's just jaw dropping incompetence. Is there anyone in the country who didn't instantly know the D Day memorial events were more important than campaigning other than Sunak and his team.
Well apart from Kuenssberg who was attempting to defend him on the basis that as PM he's busier than Starmer.
Bet Mordaunt is furious given she'll be doing the debate tonight.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 7, 2024 10:50:50 GMT
Bet Mordaunt is furious given she'll be doing the debate tonight. If she performs well, she might be leader on Monday. |
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Post by jojo on Jun 7, 2024 10:59:14 GMT
Never mind opinions on how he runs the country, Sunak is simply bad at politics. It appears that his advisors are equally bad, or simply don't like him, but no-one in that position should need to be advised to stay. Apart from anything else, the cynically political thing was to stay and be seen with the other world leaders at an event where no-one was talking about the cost of living, or state of the NHS.
I'm not against rich people being in politics, but he is a very good demonstration of what happens when someone from a wealthy background, surrounded by wealthy people and a career in the city insert find themselves in a high position politics without having to put in the work.
I appreciate they were hoping that a reduction in inflation might lead to a reduction in interest rates, which could be spun as economic competence ahead of an election, but waiting until after the bloodbath of Conservative cllrs at the May local elections made it clear how clueless he was about how his own party works.
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Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2024 11:31:19 GMT
Never mind opinions on how he runs the country, Sunak is simply bad at politics. It appears that his advisors are equally bad, or simply don't like him, but no-one in that position should need to be advised to stay. Apart from anything else, the cynically political thing was to stay and be seen with the other world leaders at an event where no-one was talking about the cost of living, or state of the NHS. I'm not against rich people being in politics, but he is a very good demonstration of what happens when someone from a wealthy background, surrounded by wealthy people and a career in the city insert find themselves in a high position politics without having to put in the work. I appreciate they were hoping that a reduction in inflation might lead to a reduction in interest rates, which could be spun as economic competence ahead of an election, but waiting until after the bloodbath of Conservative cllrs at the May local elections made it clear how clueless he was about how his own party works. Sunak in a way got lucky with Boris Johnson becoming PM because becoming Chancellor was his way to the top job. |
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Post by mkb on Jun 7, 2024 11:46:07 GMT
According to What's On Stage, the Royal Court has cancelled all performances on election day: www.whatsonstage.com/news/royal-court-cancels-all-performances-on-election-day-to-encourage-voting_1604647/What an appalling way to treat ticket-holders! Theatres cancelling shows for unavoidable reasons is one thing, but this is entirely a decision they had no need to make. Even their bizarre rationale that it's to encourage voting is bogus when anyone on the electoral roll can register for a postal vote. I hope those affected pursue them for all their costs. Theatres showing flagrant disregard to theatregoers with non-refundable travel and accommodation need to be held to account. |
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Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2024 11:56:05 GMT
According to What's On Stage, the Royal Court has cancelled all performances on election day: www.whatsonstage.com/news/royal-court-cancels-all-performances-on-election-day-to-encourage-voting_1604647/What an appalling way to treat ticket-holders! Theatres cancelling shows for unavoidable reasons is one thing, but this is entirely a decision they had no need to make. Even their bizarre rationale that it's to encourage voting is bogus when anyone on the electoral roll can register for a postal vote. I hope those affected pursue them for all their costs. Theatres showing flagrant disregard to theatregoers with non-refundable travel and accommodation need to be held to account. You could you know, not go there anymore. Theatres cancelled performance because of the Queen's funeral, should those venues be boycotted too? |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 7, 2024 12:12:40 GMT
How could Sunak get it so wrong, his election campaign is reminiscent of Theresa May’s disaster now.
BTW what piffle that Sunak has a pre-arranged interview.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 7, 2024 12:51:04 GMT
Never mind opinions on how he runs the country, Sunak is simply bad at politics. It appears that his advisors are equally bad, or simply don't like him, but no-one in that position should need to be advised to stay. Apart from anything else, the cynically political thing was to stay and be seen with the other world leaders at an event where no-one was talking about the cost of living, or state of the NHS. I'm not against rich people being in politics, but he is a very good demonstration of what happens when someone from a wealthy background, surrounded by wealthy people and a career in the city insert find themselves in a high position politics without having to put in the work. I appreciate they were hoping that a reduction in inflation might lead to a reduction in interest rates, which could be spun as economic competence ahead of an election, but waiting until after the bloodbath of Conservative cllrs at the May local elections made it clear how clueless he was about how his own party works. Sunak in a way got lucky with Boris Johnson becoming PM because becoming Chancellor was his way to the top job. I’m not sure having to defend Johnson and his record at the next election is lucky? |
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Post by mkb on Jun 7, 2024 12:54:47 GMT
According to What's On Stage, the Royal Court has cancelled all performances on election day: www.whatsonstage.com/news/royal-court-cancels-all-performances-on-election-day-to-encourage-voting_1604647/What an appalling way to treat ticket-holders! Theatres cancelling shows for unavoidable reasons is one thing, but this is entirely a decision they had no need to make. Even their bizarre rationale that it's to encourage voting is bogus when anyone on the electoral roll can register for a postal vote. I hope those affected pursue them for all their costs. Theatres showing flagrant disregard to theatregoers with non-refundable travel and accommodation need to be held to account. You could you know, not go there anymore. Theatres cancelled performance because of the Queen's funeral, should those venues be boycotted too? Who's advocating a boycott? I'm simply expecting theatres to treat their patrons with respect. There's no good reason for this cancellation. It appears to be political grandstanding. Much as the national shutdown for royal events irks me, I recognise that many theatregoers feel differently and it's on a completely different scale, particularly with the effect on travel and accommodation in London. |
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Post by parsley1 on Jun 7, 2024 13:41:02 GMT
I think it just shows how spineless the country is
Perhaps we should close hospitals for the day
To ensure we all vote
All it demonstrates is how theatre is really not all that important or essential
Or at least this is how they view themselves
Shame but unsurprising
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Post by forfivemoreminutes on Jun 7, 2024 14:00:26 GMT
You could you know, not go there anymore. Theatres cancelled performance because of the Queen's funeral, should those venues be boycotted too? Who's advocating a boycott? I'm simply expecting theatres to treat their patrons with respect. There's no good reason for this cancellation. It appears to be political grandstanding. Much as the national shutdown for royal events irks me, I recognise that many theatregoers feel differently and it's on a completely different scale, particularly with the effect on travel and accommodation in London. Polling stations are only open 7am - 10pm, for many who have jobs and live outside of London, if you see a show in the evening then there is no time to also vote that day. I’m doing a postal vote as I had already got a show booked (elsewhere), but this isn’t an option of everyone. It’s ONE performance, and the results of the election could close the theatre for good with the way Arts Funding is going currently. They’ve given plenty of notice for people to make alternative arrangements, rather than a few hours as is normally what happens when shows are cancelled. A little annoying for a few maybe, but put it into perspective for the state of the country? |
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