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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 19, 2024 15:17:18 GMT
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/shakespeare-play-theatre-rscHow can their Chief Theatre Critic be so clueless? The last train from Stratford to London was (certainly pre COVID) just after 11pm. Yes now it is 9.33pm. But that is a relatively recent reduction in service. Her lack of depth of knowledge shows through in that alone. Shakespeare does not benefit from being massively cut. It can work (and I have done it myself when I cut H4 into one play) but AYLI at 80 minutes is too short. You lose too much. Most of the comedies can work with a run time of two hours plus interval. And most of the tragedies can work at no more than 2 hours 30 plus interval. So cutting can absolutely be successful. But you need enough text left to get a true sense of the power of the language and the scope of the narrative. And the idea that a massively cut Shakespeare is less stressful for audiences just doesn't stack up for me. The solution to travel/accommodation costs is to work with the rail company to restore a decent service on at least some nights per week. And for the RSC to not have shows that make it impossible to catch the restored last trains I was looking back at recalled reviewing the More d'Arthur which started at 7pm and had a run time of 3hrs 45. I missed the final few minutes in order to get the train. The RSC should have ensured a 10.30pm finish time to avoid such problems. I would never advocate for only ever performing uncut texts. That is not the solution. Theatre should never be that reverential or self indulgent. But cutting AYLI to 80 minutes will lose too much and just panders to the idea that Shakespeare is difficult. Shakespeare done well is captivating and engaging. That is where the focus should be.
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Post by Jan on Jan 19, 2024 16:23:17 GMT
There are short schools versions of most of the plays, I’ve seen several including a 1hr Hamlet, and several theatres have been running them for years (The Orange Tree for example, and the NT and I think the Globe). I think it’s a good idea for the RSC to do a “schools” version of AYLI outdoors but aimed at tourists. But that’s all it is, a schools version, it’s not some radical new way of doing Shakespeare.
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Post by zahidf on Jan 19, 2024 17:41:10 GMT
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/shakespeare-play-theatre-rscHow can their Chief Theatre Critic be so clueless? The last train from Stratford to London was (certainly pre COVID) just after 11pm. Yes now it is 9.33pm. But that is a relatively recent reduction in service. Her lack of depth of knowledge shows through in that alone. Shakespeare does not benefit from being massively cut. It can work (and I have done it myself when I cut H4 into one play) but AYLI at 80 minutes is too short. You lose too much. Most of the comedies can work with a run time of two hours plus interval. And most of the tragedies can work at no more than 2 hours 30 plus interval. So cutting can absolutely be successful. But you need enough text left to get a true sense of the power of the language and the scope of the narrative. And the idea that a massively cut Shakespeare is less stressful for audiences just doesn't stack up for me. The solution to travel/accommodation costs is to work with the rail company to restore a decent service on at least some nights per week. And for the RSC to not have shows that make it impossible to catch the restored last trains I was looking back at recalled reviewing the More d'Arthur which started at 7pm and had a run time of 3hrs 45. I missed the final few minutes in order to get the train. The RSC should have ensured a 10.30pm finish time to avoid such problems. I would never advocate for only ever performing uncut texts. That is not the solution. Theatre should never be that reverential or self indulgent. But cutting AYLI to 80 minutes will lose too much and just panders to the idea that Shakespeare is difficult. Shakespeare done well is captivating and engaging. That is where the focus should be. Tbh, it's not really the case that the railway company can be worked with in that way you suggest to accommodate the RSC. The numbers in question wouldn't justify it the same way a Glastonbury or football match would As to cutting the play to that length, I don't have as much an opinion on that, would be on a case by case basis! |
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Post by Jan on Jan 19, 2024 18:06:35 GMT
Tbh, it's not really the case that the railway company can be worked with in that way you suggest to accommodate the RSC. The numbers in question wouldn't justify it the same way a Glastonbury or football match would There used to be a bus though which after the evening performance took you to somewhere you could get a train to London - I can't remember where, might have been Banbury. Anyway, a bus services between London and RST to fit evening performance times would surely be economic, maybe Friday & Saturday. |
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Post by foxa on Jan 19, 2024 18:06:57 GMT
I am not a particular Arifa fan as I don't feel guided or inspired by most of her reviews (WAY too many on the fence 3 stars) BUT I think a shortened outdoor show aimed at tourists isn't a bad idea. As Jan mentioned other companies have been doing this, particularly for school groups, and it can work very well (the Orange Tree brought their one hour four person A Midsummer Night's Dream to a school where I worked and it was delightful.) I didn't get the impression this would be the RSC's main offering, but a chance for tourists/younger audiences/whateer to have a taste of Shakespeare in a unique location and then perhaps be enticed back to a longer show.
In terms of trains from Stratford to London for tonight, Trainline is showing a 9.33 p.m. train that gets into London at 11.56 and a 11.15 train that gets into London the next day at 7 a.m.! So doesn't sound ideal for evening shows.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 19, 2024 18:28:49 GMT
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/shakespeare-play-theatre-rscHow can their Chief Theatre Critic be so clueless? The last train from Stratford to London was (certainly pre COVID) just after 11pm. Yes now it is 9.33pm. But that is a relatively recent reduction in service. Her lack of depth of knowledge shows through in that alone. Shakespeare does not benefit from being massively cut. It can work (and I have done it myself when I cut H4 into one play) but AYLI at 80 minutes is too short. You lose too much. Most of the comedies can work with a run time of two hours plus interval. And most of the tragedies can work at no more than 2 hours 30 plus interval. So cutting can absolutely be successful. But you need enough text left to get a true sense of the power of the language and the scope of the narrative. And the idea that a massively cut Shakespeare is less stressful for audiences just doesn't stack up for me. The solution to travel/accommodation costs is to work with the rail company to restore a decent service on at least some nights per week. And for the RSC to not have shows that make it impossible to catch the restored last trains I was looking back at recalled reviewing the More d'Arthur which started at 7pm and had a run time of 3hrs 45. I missed the final few minutes in order to get the train. The RSC should have ensured a 10.30pm finish time to avoid such problems. I would never advocate for only ever performing uncut texts. That is not the solution. Theatre should never be that reverential or self indulgent. But cutting AYLI to 80 minutes will lose too much and just panders to the idea that Shakespeare is difficult. Shakespeare done well is captivating and engaging. That is where the focus should be. Tbh, it's not really the case that the railway company can be worked with in that way you suggest to accommodate the RSC. The numbers in question wouldn't justify it the same way a Glastonbury or football match would As to cutting the play to that length, I don't have as much an opinion on that, would be on a case by case basis! I used that final train for years to get after press nights. It was never full. But it was also never empty. It wasn't direct to London (you had to change in Oxford) but it did keep Stratford connected. I think there is a conversation to be held to make Stratford better connected because it is the home of a major cultural hub. Stratford could help itself by keeping more of the town centre open beyond 5.30pm. it does feel like a ghost town when you arrive for an evening show. |
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Post by lichtie on Jan 20, 2024 15:32:35 GMT
The problem for London bound public transport users isn't strictly at the Stratford end though - it's the lack of a connecting train to London from Leamington for the last train to Leamington from Stratford. And the lack of such a service will be entirely down to the DfT given they now control all the TOCs either directly, or through their managment contracts. The fact that all of the direct London trains vanished should tell you all you need to know as to the chances of any real late night Stratford-London service being resurrected. The RSC don't have the clout to change that. If people find the Stratford hotel prices too much, there are later trains back to Moor Street and lots more choice in Birmingham at cheaper rates (if you can avoid the stag and hen party nights).
For what it's worth the RSC have a lot of experience with cutting, as their touring schools programmes get chopped to 90 minutes. DOn't know what the results are like though!
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Post by Ranger on Jan 20, 2024 21:09:36 GMT
I am not a particular Arifa fan as I don't feel guided or inspired by most of her reviews (WAY too many on the fence 3 stars) BUT I think a shortened outdoor show aimed at tourists isn't a bad idea. As Jan mentioned other companies have been doing this, particularly for school groups, and it can work very well (the Orange Tree brought their one hour four person A Midsummer Night's Dream to a school where I worked and it was delightful.) I didn't get the impression this would be the RSC's main offering, but a chance for tourists/younger audiences/whateer to have a taste of Shakespeare in a unique location and then perhaps be enticed back to a longer show. In terms of trains from Stratford to London for tonight, Trainline is showing a 9.33 p.m. train that gets into London at 11.56 and a 11.15 train that gets into London the next day at 7 a.m.! So doesn't sound ideal for evening shows. The same guardian critic made a remark in another recent review (https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/jan/14/kims-convenience-review-park-theatre-london-ins-choi) that I find the sign of a bad trend: "Theatre has increasingly started to adapt television shows or feel episodic in their script." So I agree with you there's value in a shorter version of Shakespeare compared to having younger audiences learn about drama from episodic sitcom plots. |
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Post by aspieandy on Jan 21, 2024 6:05:45 GMT
Given the poor transport links, perhaps they could look at cutting an evening and adding a matinee. Might also prove popular with retirees, as well.
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Post by kate8 on Jan 21, 2024 7:57:13 GMT
Given the poor transport links, perhaps they could look at cutting an evening and adding a matinee. Might also prove popular with retirees, as well. I’d love an extra weekday matinee. Also popular with school parties. |
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jan 21, 2024 12:00:12 GMT
haven't they introduced a late-night bus to coventry in order to pick up later trains?
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Post by lichtie on Jan 21, 2024 13:13:36 GMT
There are only later trains to Euston during the week though, and even then you'd want the bus to be on time and be ready to sprint.... And you're still leaving Stratford at much the same time as the last Leamington train. The problem isn't at Stratford - it's the lack of late night connections to London further on. And that's unlikely to change - and would you really want to run the risk of the final Avanti service of the night actually turning up anyway!
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Post by jek on Jan 21, 2024 13:17:15 GMT
Out of interest I used the RSC getting here app on their website - You.Smart.Thing to see what a journey from my well connected part of East London (the other Stratford) would involve. I used as my example the opening night of the Buddha of Suburbia (18th April) leaving at 3 pm. Getting to Paddington is a cinch for me (using the Elizabeth line). It then suggests a train to Moreton in the Marsh followed by a bus to Stratford - a complete journey time, it tells me, of 3 hrs and 18 minutes. The return journey (at 11pm) involves a train to Birmingham Moor Street, a coach to Heathrow and then two buses to Liverpool Street before catching the Elizabeth Line - a total of 6 hours and 32 minutes. It's like one of those extreme travel challenges people who like public transport undertake.
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Post by aspieandy on Jan 21, 2024 15:26:19 GMT
Party of 4, madam? £175 back to North London on Uber, atm. Presumably less, in the week, if you choose your time carefully ..
Of course ridiculous to even have to think of that, but that is on the RSC, imo: take the government subsidy, exclude many in the capital city by failing to adjust.
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Post by Ranger on Jan 21, 2024 16:09:35 GMT
Party of 4, madam? £175 back to North London on Uber, atm. Presumably less, in the week, if you choose your time carefully ..
Of course ridiculous to even have to think of that, but that is on the RSC, imo: take the government subsidy, exclude many in the capital city by failing to adjust.
Maybe Stratford town council finds it in their economic interest to have poorer travel connections to promote overnight stays. |
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Post by aspieandy on Jan 21, 2024 17:07:48 GMT
As far as I understand, train operators (not even Network Rail) are the decision-makers, though who's to say an overnight stay creates more local wealth than day-trippers.
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Post by cavocado on Jan 21, 2024 20:01:55 GMT
Is there still a bus/coach from Stratford to Oxford? I'm sure I remember years ago getting a bus to Oxford and then the Oxford Tube which runs late (maybe 24 hours?) to London.
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Post by Cleo on Jan 21, 2024 20:27:19 GMT
haven't they introduced a late-night bus to coventry in order to pick up later trains? It was only for a few weeks as a pilot but looks as if it is still running. www.stratford-herald.com/news/bus-of-delights-9336406/Generally I do think that public transport travel from London to Stratford is not easy but it may be that many overseas visitors do a organised coach trip eg Oxford-Warwick-Stratford then the Cotswolds. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 21, 2024 21:02:12 GMT
If Stratford is a cultural hub it should be accessible to everyone in the U.K. shouldn’t it? Not just London?
This is starting to feel like a lot of people who live in London and are already VERY well served when it comes to theatre and Shakespeare moaning because they can’t have more.
Tip: Get a hotel. Those of us who don’t live in London do it all the time.
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Post by jek on Jan 22, 2024 9:28:45 GMT
I get what you are saying BurlyBeaR BurlyBeaR . I lived in Manchester for 15 years of my adult life, Edinburgh for four and Birmingham and Coventry for four. What brought me back to the East London of my childhood was work. The quality of life we could have with our children in any of those other cities was better than we have in the capital but the jobs weren't there. In one particular nightmare period I was commuting between Manchester and Leeds - a line which is so poor it would quite possibly have been quicker to cycle. Having said all that it is an unfortunate truth that what would make the difference to audience sizes at Stratford would be a good London connection - given the density of population and tourist visits. It's a similar argument to the opposition to the relocation of the ENO to Manchester. A much bigger seismic shift is needed in terms of relocating jobs and opportunities around the UK before any of this changes. |
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Post by aspieandy on Jan 22, 2024 11:58:58 GMT
You might think the RSC could do with convenient access to a market that makes 16 and half million theatre trips a year. No one is suggesting the RSC relocate. It's about bums on seats. Adjust, is all; add/swap an evening for a matinee so people can have a nice time around the town, and get home afterwards.
Also, a fair number of those 16.5 million already have hotels booked because they tend to be London-centric tourists.
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Post by Jan on Jan 22, 2024 11:59:14 GMT
If Stratford is a cultural hub it should be accessible to everyone in the U.K. shouldn’t it? Not just London? This is starting to feel like a lot of people who live in London and are already VERY well served when it comes to theatre and Shakespeare moaning because they can’t have more. Tip: Get a hotel. Those of us who don’t live in London do it all the time. The RSC under the terms of their ACE grant are supposed to maintain a base in London so transport difficulties between London and Stratford should be irrelevant. They are also supposed to be a national company but the recent season announcement didn’t mention performances in London or anywhere else in the country. That may come later. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 22, 2024 12:29:36 GMT
Looking at the performance schedule for Ben and Imo & Dream and i am unable to see any sunday matinées for either. Shame as this would make the organisation more accessible. Although sunday trains can be a nightmare ...
How well attended are the Stratford performances? And do they need to think about connecting trains etc or can they unfortunately, just carry on as usual?
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Post by Dave B on Jan 22, 2024 12:31:06 GMT
Maybe a title update or a merge with RSC please BurlyBeaR? |
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Post by Samwise on Jan 22, 2024 13:15:08 GMT
That article confirmed what I've thought for a while now: Arifa Akbar doesn't like going to the theatre very much
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 22, 2024 14:23:51 GMT
That article confirmed what I've thought for a while now: Arifa Akbar doesn't like going to the theatre very much Not to mention a serious lack of awareness Seriously 🙄 |
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Post by lynette on Jan 22, 2024 17:23:16 GMT
I think that the short AYLI is really for tourists and day trippers and/or toes in the water/ let’s get the kids interested people. They are going to do two a day so plenty of flexibility for fish and chips before or after.
When i was a kid the bus to Brum used to wait for us to come walking down from the theatre whatever the finish time. The driver would be looking our way watching us stroll, laughing down the road and left when we got aboard.
The best thing the RSC could do would be to get a train service from Stratford to London on a regular basis. Game changer.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jan 24, 2024 9:22:27 GMT
I'm sure more people are put off by the added expenses of going to London for theatre than the other way around!
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Post by aspieandy on Jan 24, 2024 9:50:06 GMT
Fwiw, the biggest issue - absent a train service - isn't so much the fact or price of a hotel; it's going to work in the morning.
For most people most of the time, waking up in Warwickshire isn't ideal. Being able to go to work facilitates their theatre habit.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 24, 2024 10:12:26 GMT
Fwiw, the biggest issue - absent a train service - isn't so much the fact or price of a hotel; it's going to work in the morning. For most people most of the time, waking up in Warwickshire isn't ideal. Being able to go to work facilitates their theatre habit. Those of us who have to travel as a matter of course arrange it for the weekends, or scheduled days off so that waking up in a different city isn’t an issue. It does require planning, committing to the plan and booking ahead but thousands do it. |
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