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Post by annette on Nov 15, 2024 16:03:07 GMT
I wonder if Andrew Rannells dropped out because he feared the writing was on the wall for this one? I don't think his presence alone would have made enough difference to keeping the show buoyant, but I image he's a bigger draw that Christian Borle (despite CB being a wonderful performer himself, Rannells is sexier casting to put it crudely).
I can't remember ever seeing a lack of ticket sales quite like this one. I would have thought even Elton John & Jake Shears's names would have counted for something. I saw the show at The Almeida and really enjoyed it. It was obviously a work in progress, but I would have thought it had stronger legs than this. Could an American audience be touchy about the religious criticism? That's kind of hard to imagine given how Mormon thrived, but maybe the audience demographic is completely different?
Perhaps Katie in the lead being an unknown quantity in the US is a problem, but again that's not something that has been a problem for other Brits.
I'd say it's unlikely to be a big draw for tourists given the subject matter, maybe the same goes for people coming to NY from other parts of the US.
Overall though I do find it hard to understand why it struggling to the extent that it is.
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Post by Jon on Nov 15, 2024 16:06:10 GMT
I wonder if Andrew Rannells dropped out because he feared the writing was on the wall for this one? I don't think his presence alone would have made enough difference to keeping the show buoyant, but I image he's a bigger draw that Christian Borle (despite CB being a wonderful performer himself, Rannells is sexier casting to put it crudely). I can't remember ever seeing a lack of ticket sales quite like this one. I would have thought even Elton John & Jake Shears's names would have counted for something. I saw the show at The Almeida and really enjoyed it. It was obviously a work in progress, but I would have thought it had stronger legs than this. Could an American audience be touchy about the religious criticism? That's kind of hard to imagine given how Mormon thrived, but maybe the audience demographic is completely different? Perhaps Katie in the lead being an unknown quantity in the US is a problem, but again that's not something that has been a problem for other Brits. I'd say it's unlikely to be a big draw for tourists given the subject matter, maybe the same goes for people coming to NY from other parts of the US. Overall though I do find it hard to understand why it struggling to the extent that it is. Mormon's draw is it's from the creators of South Park and the combination of that it is a draw people who normally don't like theatre and a smallish theatre has meant it has run quite successfully. Elton's name doesn't alway sell, look at Lestat! |
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Post by annette on Nov 15, 2024 16:12:29 GMT
Do I have to (look at Lestat)?
I forgot to add to my post that maybe opening this show in the newly anointed political regime in the US makes it unattractive to both the right and left? Offensive for the former and not funny at all for people mourning the new dawn given the fundamentalist aspect in the show.
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Post by theatrefan62 on Nov 15, 2024 16:38:21 GMT
I think this and Lestat show Eltons name isn't a draw.
All his other shows have had well known IP to draw audiences in. Even Aida had the opera and the Disney name and brand to help sell it.
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Post by Jon on Nov 15, 2024 16:47:11 GMT
I think this and Lestat show Eltons name isn't a draw. All his other shows have had well known IP to draw audiences in. Even Aida had the opera and the Disney name and brand to help sell it. Billy Elliot wasn't well known in the US but the success in London helped a lot. Lestat while not unknown as an IP was two years after Dance of the Vampires. |
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Post by pjw on Nov 15, 2024 17:19:14 GMT
I'm not sure that taking it into a West End house would have improved its lot on Broadway, although it may have given the show some more buzz. The bunch who pass for critics in the UK are average columnists who know little about theatre and almost nothing about musicals. Just like Groundhog Day and (Bad) Cinderella, which reviewed relatively favourably in the UK, its creators would have had a rude awakening on Broadway. I remember years ago Michael Riedel smirking on an episode of Talkin' Broadway as he warned 'beware the musical from London...' an attitude that still holds true. It's a shame, albeit a predictable one, that this is bombing on Broadway. But the knowledge and insightful analysis of New York critics is wonderful and its a joy to read their response. The quality of their copy and the word counts make me envious. If London had stronger critical insight, we'd have a healthier ecology that generated better musicals to begin with. The New York Times gave the Almeida production a good review... |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Nov 15, 2024 17:26:23 GMT
What I hear is that it’s going to close quickly and Ragtime from Encores starring Caissie Levy will be transferring into that theatre. I thought Cassie was taking Next To Normal to broadway this season? |
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Post by notsotheatrical on Nov 15, 2024 17:28:35 GMT
What I hear is that it’s going to close quickly and Ragtime from Encores starring Caissie Levy will be transferring into that theatre. I thought Cassie was taking Next To Normal to broadway this season? Next To Normal is highly unlikely to come in this season as it would get lost in the Revival competition. Best bet is next season if it happens. |
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Post by aloysius on Nov 15, 2024 18:02:02 GMT
I love Six and Operation Mincemeat but I'm not sure if they're good comparisons because they both started as tiny fringe shows created as passion projects by unknowns and evolved organically from being able to see which bits connected or didn't connect with audiences. Or maybe I'm wrong and that's why they are good comparisons, because maybe Tammy Faye's creative push was coming from the wrong place. I assume people know this, but Tammy Faye only exists because Elton John has long been obsessed with Tammy and decided to use his vast wealth and fame to essentially commission a huge West End musical around his personal pet interest. He created the idea and concept and put everything in place for that musical to go into the West End, then after everything was in place he went out and started interviewing playwrights. James Graham landed the gig off being one of several playwrights who interviewed. Then James suggested Rupert Goold as director. Compare that to Dear England which started from James and Rupert's shared passion for football, shared obsession with Gareth Southgate, and shared interest in using theatre to explore 21stC masculinity. Or compare to Six or Operation Mincemeat which like Dear England both had the starting point of group of creatives realising they had a mutual interest and wanting to mutually explore that interest theatrically. I know Elton was also one of the creatives, but it somewhat reminds me of playwrights in the Elizabethan era writing plays to serve the needs and interests of their wealthy patrons or royals. Maybe wealthy person hiring a playwright to write a custom-show to serve their own pet interest isn't the best way to create a show that will connect with wide audiences. Your insights into this production are absolutely fascinating. It seems such a shame it's failing as I was among many who enjoyed it at the Almeida. From reading your posts it seems like a succession of wrong decisions may well sink this. I'd be interested in your view of what, if any decisions, Elton John should've done differently if he could go back in time... Launching the musical on Broadway during the immediate aftermath of a traumatic election? Going into the Palace Theater (not just too big but has the critics' pride been dented by their flagship theater relaunching by those cocky Brits?) Andrew Rannells being kept onboard somehow to prevent the show appearing in disarray just as it launched Stateside? Katie's pregnancy - obviously that comes first for her but should Tammy have been recast to keep the Gillian Lynne out of the hands of the Sheffield interlopers? Rupert Goold being hired as director and requesting the pre West End run that in the end prevented the launchpad for its Broadway transfer? James Graham getting the gig as bookwright - given most of the criticism from the reviewers today seems directed his way? |
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Post by doornumberthree on Nov 15, 2024 18:13:54 GMT
I'm not sure that taking it into a West End house would have improved its lot on Broadway, although it may have given the show some more buzz. The bunch who pass for critics in the UK are average columnists who know little about theatre and almost nothing about musicals. Just like Groundhog Day and (Bad) Cinderella, which reviewed relatively favourably in the UK, its creators would have had a rude awakening on Broadway. I remember years ago Michael Riedel smirking on an episode of Talkin' Broadway as he warned 'beware the musical from London...' an attitude that still holds true. It's a shame, albeit a predictable one, that this is bombing on Broadway. But the knowledge and insightful analysis of New York critics is wonderful and its a joy to read their response. The quality of their copy and the word counts make me envious. If London had stronger critical insight, we'd have a healthier ecology that generated better musicals to begin with. The New York Times gave the Almeida production a good review... It’s wild because they really have made the show better and cut some of the parts that dragged it down/made it feel bloated at the Almeida. Even though the stage is too big for the show, it’s a solid 3 * show now, I feel so sad for everyone involved. |
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Post by max on Nov 15, 2024 22:23:24 GMT
There couldn't have been a worse political moment to open this on Broadway. But another (paradoxical) piece of 'bad luck' was Katie Brayben being so good in London. It needed more allegiance and buy-in for the American audience; though I'm happy that Katie Brayben has been so respected in the reviews (and no doubt by audiences).
At least 8 years ago Kristin Chinoweth was talking about the version she was part of, and heading to Broadway - though the opening question suggests it had already been a long time coming even then.
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 16, 2024 1:27:00 GMT
A very poorly produced show. Should’ve gone to the West End first then a small 1000 seat Broadway theatre.
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Post by danb on Nov 16, 2024 6:55:33 GMT
It looks like a white elephant; stuck down a side street off Times Square. I was sure that the Palace used to have signage facing out onto Broadway rather than just onto 47th? Regardless, It was hard to miss the enormous ‘Tammy Faye’ hoarding that sat there for six months before opening. Even that doesn’t seem to have drummed up any trade. I think that even NYC is becoming more conservative in its tastes. If you look at some of the revivals and IP titles that have come & gone in the last year its clear the sort of fayre the Broadway audience is engaging with atm.
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Post by mattnyc on Nov 16, 2024 14:58:21 GMT
It looks like a white elephant; stuck down a side street off Times Square. I was sure that the Palace used to have signage facing out onto Broadway rather than just onto 47th? Regardless, It was hard to miss the enormous ‘Tammy Faye’ hoarding that sat there for six months before opening. Even that doesn’t seem to have drummed up any trade. I think that even NYC is becoming more conservative in its tastes. If you look at some of the revivals and IP titles that have come & gone in the last year its clear the sort of fayre the Broadway audience is engaging with atm. The original marquee for The Palace was enormous and billboard sized, facing onto Times Square, yes. It’s such a shame to lose that. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 16, 2024 15:07:41 GMT
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Nov 17, 2024 12:38:06 GMT
I wonder if Andrew Rannells dropped out because he feared the writing was on the wall for this one? I don't think his presence alone would have made enough difference to keeping the show buoyant, but I image he's a bigger draw that Christian Borle (despite CB being a wonderful performer himself, Rannells is sexier casting to put it crudely). It was, uh, not entirely his choice to leave. The more I think about this, the more I think it was deeply unwise and tone deaf to put a show (especially one created mainly by Brits) about televangelists and the American religious right into a huge American theatre. It did well in Britain because Brits love taking the piss out of America, and televangelists are cartoon characters to us, they have no real meaning or impact on us because we don't really have a Christofascist religious right. Tammy Faye seems to have been a nice enough person but she was instrumental in making the whole televangelist movement (or the concept of religious leaders being celebrities) a thing and that movement played a huge part in creating Trump. To many Americans, that's terrifying and not something to be praised or mocked. It's a shame the West End run fell through because I think it would have been a huge hit in the West End. But it's tone deaf for America and it's a shocking error of timing to have the show open weeks after an election that has so many Americans fearing for the very future of democracy. |
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Post by theatre2023 on Nov 17, 2024 12:44:36 GMT
I went into this cold - knowing not much about the show - and surprisingly enjoyed it.
It’s perhaps a little too ‘non commercial’ for Broadway’s current diet of mind-numbing, movie to musical transfers.
Definitely worth watching before it’s inevitable early closing. Shows that offer something different - and try break the mould - need to be supported.
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Post by anthony40 on Nov 17, 2024 18:15:52 GMT
Start your day with a blessing! ✨ The cast of Tammy Faye lit up the @gmastage this morning, bringing the energy and spirit of Broadway to your screens. Catch all the inspiration LIVE at the theater—tickets are available now! 🎟️ #TammyFayeBway #GMA x.com/TammyFayeBway/status/1856768283648618970 |
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Post by max on Nov 17, 2024 22:01:02 GMT
I think you're spot on with this. However... Though it's not been holding sway for decades (as in America) there's enough of a Christofascist right building in the UK for that West End run (that didn't happen) to have been more than a piss take of Americans but a somewhat useful warning. I spent 45mins on the phone talking to the monsignor of a particular church in London, in horror that his church was hosting some people with particularly aggressive ideologies who use Twitter/X to outright lie about non-Christian communities and whip up division. Calvin Robinson, dog collar wearing (former) GBNews darling was one. He called Rishi Sunak "the heathen prime minister" twice on GBNews. I'm only entertained by Robinson being known by many on social media as 'the sinister minister' 'the clerical error' 'Leo Prayer', and my favourite: 'Altar Mitty' I just hope our mockery can run ahead of the financiers and certain churches amplifying these people in the UK. 'Tammy Faye' had a useful function in the UK (while also being entertaining); America's too far gone. |
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Post by chernjam on Nov 18, 2024 3:13:29 GMT
As a devout Catholic Christian American, watching/listening to televangelists has never been a part of my life. I remember bits and pieces of Tammy Faye's story and have never been particularly interested in revisiting it. But reading some of these posts has only solidified my reasons for not even considering checking it out. The outright contempt that some demonstrate for people's religious beliefs is repulsive to me and to many other Americans, even those who aren't particularly religious. Shelling out $100 to see Tammy Faye mocked? Canonized? somewhere in between? or even those things being put on those who were followers? Yeah, not interested in that.
We're not "too far gone." We try to "live and let live."
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Post by craigbowker on Nov 18, 2024 9:56:21 GMT
What I hear is that it’s going to close quickly and Ragtime from Encores starring Caissie Levy will be transferring into that theatre. I thought Cassie was taking Next To Normal to broadway this season? I believe that was the plan but got delayed. Whether that delay is because of Ragtime or her participation in Ragtime is a result of the delay, who knows. Ragtime won't last more than a few months though. |
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Post by craig on Nov 19, 2024 1:06:21 GMT
I loved this at the Almeida and, whilst I'm truly sad it's flopping on Broadway, the scale of the flop is frankly quite iconic. The legendary Broadway flops tend to get canonised by musical theatre fans, and there's so much to love about this musical.
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Post by mattnyc on Nov 19, 2024 20:40:57 GMT
Final performance will be on 8 Dec.
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Post by Rory on Nov 19, 2024 20:45:21 GMT
Final performance will be on 8 Dec. Brutal. |
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Post by westendcub on Nov 19, 2024 20:55:57 GMT
We are never getting a cast recording of this show, what a shame.
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