722 posts
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 9:34:22 GMT
Post by hulmeman on Sept 11, 2019 9:34:22 GMT
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4,995 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 11, 2019 10:12:07 GMT
If it was upto to me I would of cancelled the conference season and got to Parliament to debate everything that is non brexit related. As that also matters! |
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Post by lynette on Sept 11, 2019 18:49:19 GMT
The conference season is a money tree for the hoteliers, the branded goods, the sideshows so a lot of people would be cross if cancelled. But you are right, priorities. They could have had a conference season in January but hey who wants to go to a boring town in the UK in January? MPs have on the whole lost my respect. A few exceptions...
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 10:50:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 10:50:45 GMT
So with The John Bercow resigning. I wonder who of the former Tory MPs and Change MPs will switch to the Liberal Democrats? I could see Heidi Allen, Amber Rudd, Ken Clarke and possible Ruth Davidson (that would be a major scalp.) A lot of those MPs who quit both Labour and Tories could defect to the Lib Dems as their new party seems to be a bit of a lame duck and a lot would stand no chance of re-election currently. Ironic how Mr Farage started a new party from scratch and made a go of it.
Another new centralist party could be created but would it be that different politically from Lib Dems?
Also if David Miliband ever returned to frontline politics he could be a figure to build a sustainable new party around.
The Lib Dems are no doubt delighted to get a politician of the ability of Chuka Umunna and would likewise do cartwheels if Ruth Davidson jumped ship too.
Amber Rudd may be looking to play the long game but has a wafer thin majority in her current seat so could be a sitting duck.
John Bercow was always likely to finish soon but although I don't think he remained as neutral as he should, I'll give him credit for ensuring this Parliament will likely elect his successor. The Labour MP Sir Lindsay Hoyle is a very well respected Deputy Speaker and would be the perfect replacement in my mind.
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 11:09:51 GMT
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Post by n1david on Sept 12, 2019 11:09:51 GMT
Ironic how Mr Farage started a new party from scratch and made a go of it. Although the Brexit Party isn't a political party as we generally know it in the UK, it's a limited company, has no members and no democratic process for making policy or even deciding who its leader is - Nigel Farage is in charge until he decides not to be, and then presumably he will choose a new leader or the company will be dissolved. I'm sure the leaders of all the other parties would find their job a lot easier if they didn't have to take any account of their members, officeholders or elected representatives. |
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 6:30:46 GMT
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 24, 2019 6:30:46 GMT
Supreme Court Judgment is today (incidentally I visited it at the weekend as part of Open House beautiful building if you are a fan of the Arts & Crafts movement...).
The Boris story that I am finding more interesting is how the right wing press are covering the Jennifer Arcuri story. Have they got tired of BJ or am I just hopeful?
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 7:04:38 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 24, 2019 7:04:38 GMT
My gut feeling is from a legal perspective the Prorogation of Parliament will be considered lawful as we do not have a written constitution Prorogation will be considered outside of the law and a Parliamentary process.
I hope I am wrong and when Parliament reconvenes in a similar way to the No-Deal Act was fast tracked a Bill will be introduced to constrain the misuse of Prorogation.
The fun will resume on the 14th Oct, everything will pivot around the timing of the No-Confidence vote.
Do love the way Johnson talks about his agenda for Parliament following the Queen’s Speech knowing full well it is not worth the paper it is printed on now that he is in a minority Government. (by defections, most of the Tory rebels will support as their issue is No-Deal Brexit)
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 24, 2019 9:48:04 GMT
Wow, this is a momentous day, Prorogation was unlawful and Parliament can resume immediately without any action from the Prime Minister.
My issue with Prorogation has been upheld and Parliamentary Sovereignty is confirmed.
Never been glad to be so wrong in my previous post.
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4,995 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 24, 2019 10:05:25 GMT
Do Brexiteers still like parliamentary sovereignty?
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Post by vdcni on Sept 24, 2019 10:24:15 GMT
Absolutely incredible judgement and unanimous! Interesting that our unwritten constitution is actually operating to stop the government acting unlawfully in a way that the US constitution isn't managing right now.
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Post by jadnoop on Sept 24, 2019 10:25:08 GMT
Do Brexiteers still like parliamentary sovereignty? No doubt we're not long from another 'Enemy of the people'-type story. It's sad that some can't seem to recognise that not everything should be considered solely in terms of brexit; ignoring the fact that government behaviour now will set the precedent for what's acceptable for the long-term.
On a side note, Boris' losing streak can't really be described as 'strong' but the consistency technically could be framed as 'stable' I suppose...
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Post by d'James on Sept 24, 2019 11:06:38 GMT
I know it’s not possible but I would love it if the Government could appeal to an EU court and have them come out on the Government’s side, just to see them try and explain it to Brexit fans.
The fact that this result was unanimous is particularly damning. The opposition parties must play this cleverly though.
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Post by Being Alive on Sept 24, 2019 13:07:50 GMT
What a great morning!
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 14:03:59 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Sept 24, 2019 14:03:59 GMT
just to see them try and explain it to Brexit fans. Literally reduced now to a team sport. |
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 15:30:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 15:30:06 GMT
Absolutely incredible judgement and unanimous! Interesting that our unwritten constitution is actually operating to stop the government acting unlawfully in a way that the US constitution isn't managing right now. We have an independent judiciary and it is our saving grace. The US Supreme Court is politicised to a massive degree (and they have a role for life). More than Trump (who is temporary) it is the Supreme Court that is a greater crisis in American Democracy, currently planned to have a Republican majority for decades and able to attack any Democrat President with impunity. I would hope that any future US government packs the court, announces term limits and takes away its political edge but I'm not holding my breath.
Anyone who thinks this is political should just turn it around. Any future PM Corbyn or some such is now clear that their power over Parliament is limited.
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:01:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 16:01:41 GMT
Our judiciary is appointed by the Government of the day to a certain degree but not as much as the US is. With this intervention could the politicians start looking at the US based Supreme Court.
With Labour being at Conference this week and the Tories next week how can Parliament effectively sit I wonder.
Will the prorogued session just resume and we have the Queen's Speech on 14th October too.
Also with the legislation passed earlier this month and Labour not wanting an election before 31st October will Parliament have much to really do?
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:05:22 GMT
Post by n1david on Sept 24, 2019 16:05:22 GMT
With Labour being at Conference this week and the Tories next week how can Parliament effectively sit I wonder. The Labour Conference is finishing early at the end of today, hence Corbyn's speech being moved to today. The Tories are still considering whether to go ahead with their conference, or in a shortened or amended form. Some people are suggesting Parliament could go into recess to allow the Conservative conference to take place, although in the current environment that seems unlikely. |
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:06:15 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 24, 2019 16:06:15 GMT
just to see them try and explain it to Brexit fans. Literally reduced now to a team sport. A bad thing? |
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:06:38 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 24, 2019 16:06:38 GMT
Going to be Corbyn by tea time
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5,707 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:14:00 GMT
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Post by lynette on Sept 24, 2019 16:14:00 GMT
Everyone seems very jolly about this but I’m fearful. The Gina Millers of this world now in control so hey, money talking and anything a future government decides will be vulnerable to similar tactics thus making the judges political appointees by default.
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:33:02 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 24, 2019 16:33:02 GMT
Everyone seems very jolly about this but I’m fearful. The Gina Millers of this world now in control so hey, money talking and anything a future government decides will be vulnerable to similar tactics thus making the judges political appointees by default. Not sure you can throw Gina Miller in with the Gina Miller's Lynette? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 16:35:09 GMT
Everyone seems very jolly about this but I’m fearful. The Gina Millers of this world now in control so hey, money talking and anything a future government decides will be vulnerable to similar tactics thus making the judges political appointees by default. It's quite simple, the executive is not able to override parliament. The only politics involved is to stop this and the judgment made it very clear that that, not any political import such as Brexit is the reason.
Johnson said that the prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit, yet now is complaining that overturning the prorogation is everything to do with Brexit. He can't even get his lies straight.
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:41:03 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 24, 2019 16:41:03 GMT
Everyone seems very jolly about this but I’m fearful. The Gina Millers of this world now in control so hey, money talking and anything a future government decides will be vulnerable to similar tactics thus making the judges political appointees by default. It's quite simple, the executive is not able to override parliament. The only politics involved is to stop this and the judgment made it very clear that that, not any political import such as Brexit is the reason.
Johnson said that the prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit, yet now is complaining that overturning the prorogation is everything to do with Brexit. He can't even get his lies straight.
Got to resign hasn't he? |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 24, 2019 16:51:00 GMT
lynette , do share your concern as this is a momentous shift in our Democracy and has defined the relationship between the Executive (Government) and Parliament. I have read the ruling and the judiciary have tried as best to distance the decision on the Political process only on the Executive/Parliament relationship. The decision was based on the legal position that the Executive is subservient to Parliament who have the duty to hold the Executive accountable, in this instance this was removed without a valid reason, the Prorogation was exceptional (my view throughout) and the Executive was hiding from Parliamentary accountability to push through their agenda. (If Corbyn prorogued Parliament to remove Trident (include your own simile here) would we be as equally complacent? which he or another PM could do if this precedent was upheld) This I believe has given power back to Parliament and the precedent set is about minimising the impact of a rogue Executive who want to diminish Parliamentary sovereignty. There will be surprises as this could be seen the start of defining our Constitution in Law and need to tread carefully and Parliament will need to rise to ensure Parliamentary processes going forwarded do not need to include the Judiciary.
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5,073 posts
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 16:56:24 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Sept 24, 2019 16:56:24 GMT
We have gone from a weak and unstable prime minister to a lying, weak and unstable prime minister.
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