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Post by londonpostie on Apr 3, 2023 7:06:36 GMT
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Post by anxiousoctopus on Apr 3, 2023 7:27:12 GMT
That’s interesting - although still says a lot that when men were not allowed to vote it was because they lived with another person (parents etc.) while women were denied it because they were considered inferior and unable to handle responsibility.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 3, 2023 7:36:10 GMT
Well, the difference for working class men and women voting was two general elections. The fight for representation began with Magna Carta in 1215, and ended n 1929 - over 700 years.
Fwiw, over 700,000 men died in WW1, never having the right to vote.
As ever, some would like to make it only about gender or another characteristic, and even about a young woman running out in front of a horse at the Epsom Derby. There are many thousands of martyrs. It always was a class war. Men and women suffered, fought and died together, literally for centuries.
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Post by mrnutz on Apr 3, 2023 8:44:28 GMT
Watched this live on YouTube - most enjoyable though did find Hannah Waddingham fairly smug and verging on annoying at times.
The Band's Visit performance was the standout for me, and a huge shame they left empty-handed.
I thought Standing's performance was an odd choice - presumably picked as it has the same name as the show, but there are far better and more representative songs they could have gone with.
And Totoro - wow! Kicking myself I didn't see this last year so I'd know what all the fuss was about.
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Post by Rory on Apr 3, 2023 8:51:53 GMT
I thought The Band's Visit performance was just gorgeous.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 3, 2023 8:57:42 GMT
Watched this live on YouTube - most enjoyable though did find Hannah Waddingham fairly smug and verging on annoying at times. The Band's Visit performance was the standout for me, and a huge shame they left empty-handed. I thought Standing's performance was an odd choice - presumably picked as it has the same name as the show, but there are far better and more representative songs they could have gone with. And Totoro - wow! Kicking myself I didn't see this last year so I'd know what all the fuss was about. Agree - Anna Waddington was extremely irritating. Regarding Totoro, I'm one of the few (along with my daughters) who found it an absolute bore. The sight of grown adults desperately trying to relieve their childhoods in the audience made me want to vom (but it won six Oliviers and was a huge box office success, so I accept I am in the miserable minority with this show).
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Post by desireearmfeldt on Apr 3, 2023 9:26:39 GMT
Well, the difference for working class men and women voting was two general elections. The fight for representation began with Magna Carta in 1215, and ended n 1929 - over 700 years.
Fwiw, over 700,000 men died in WW1, never having the right to vote.
As ever, some would like to make it only about gender or another characteristic, and even about a young woman running out in front of a horse at the Epsom Derby. There are many thousands of martyrs. It always was a class war. Men and women suffered, fought and died together, literally for centuries.
This is my gripe with the show; Sylvia's clearly the more interesting figure who dedicated time to a social movement beyond women's suffrage, and the show gives that only a fragment of stage time in the final act. Most of us Brits are very aware of everything in Act One, and to see this reduced to buzzwords and showy feminism I'm sure would make Emmeline roll in her grave. There's a moment in Act Two with working class women that was, for me, one of its only saving graces. The rest I found so bland it was almost insulting.
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Post by rpvee on Apr 3, 2023 9:35:08 GMT
I don't know that any show was able to represent what it was truly about given the brief time frame. "Omar Sharif" was, in my opinion, the stand-out performance of the evening, but it tells you nothing about the plot of THE BAND'S VISIT. Agreed about Omar Sharif being the standout performance of the evening (biased as I may be), but strongly disagreed that it tells you nothing about the plot of The Band’s Visit. The show doesn’t have much of a plot to begin with, its point being about the characters themselves and how alike people are through shared emotion and music. So what better song to represent that than an Israeli telling an Egyptian of her love of his culture through a beautiful song celebrating two Egyptian legends?
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Post by shownut on Apr 3, 2023 10:26:43 GMT
I don't know that any show was able to represent what it was truly about given the brief time frame. "Omar Sharif" was, in my opinion, the stand-out performance of the evening, but it tells you nothing about the plot of THE BAND'S VISIT. Agreed about Omar Sharif being the standout performance of the evening (biased as I may be), but strongly disagreed that it tells you nothing about the plot of The Band’s Visit. The show doesn’t have much of a plot to begin with, its point being about the characters themselves and how alike people are through shared emotion and music. So what better song to represent that than an Israeli telling an Egyptian of her love of his culture through a beautiful song celebrating two Egyptian legends? You have a point.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 3, 2023 14:01:59 GMT
Was really glad that Katie Brayben won for Tammy Faye.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 3, 2023 14:04:10 GMT
Well, the difference for working class men and women voting was two general elections. The fight for representation began with Magna Carta in 1215, and ended n 1929 - over 700 years.
Fwiw, over 700,000 men died in WW1, never having the right to vote.
As ever, some would like to make it only about gender or another characteristic, and even about a young woman running out in front of a horse at the Epsom Derby. There are many thousands of martyrs. It always was a class war. Men and women suffered, fought and died together, literally for centuries.
This is my gripe with the show; Sylvia's clearly the more interesting figure who dedicated time to a social movement beyond women's suffrage, and the show gives that only a fragment of stage time in the final act. Most of us Brits are very aware of everything in Act One, and to see this reduced to buzzwords and showy feminism I'm sure would make Emmeline roll in her grave. There's a moment in Act Two with working class women that was, for me, one of its only saving graces. The rest I found so bland it was almost insulting. It is insulting, of course it's insulting. Not least to all those thousands of people who fought - and died. Welcome to the most delusional time in human history; Anglophone cities in the third decade of the 21st century. A place where history and facts have little value.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 3, 2023 14:14:03 GMT
I don’t know who did Hannah W’s make up but it looked like she’d had a run in with Sheridans chip pan.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 3, 2023 14:31:10 GMT
I don't think it was the makeup.
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Post by thistimetomorrow on Apr 3, 2023 14:47:14 GMT
Main thing I'm sad about is that I wish Miri could have won best actress or the Band's Visit to win literally anything Otherwise not too surprised by all the other winners
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Post by shownut on Apr 3, 2023 14:50:56 GMT
Main thing I'm sad about is that I wish Miri could have won best actress or the Band's Visit to win literally anything Otherwise not too surprised by all the other winners I don't begrudge Katie Brayben that well-earned Olivier but would also love to have seen THE BAND'S VISIT win the top prize. And if there was a finer rendering of Dina than what Miri gave at the Donmar, I cannot imagine it. She was perfection.
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Post by marob on Apr 3, 2023 15:31:16 GMT
I really hate the way they edit this programme. They trim down or remove pretty much everything except the musical performances, but then as soon as they start performing they cut away to the audience or to those acoustic things on the ceiling. The end of Newsies’ bit would have looked much more impressive if they’d just stayed on the spinning guy rather than showing him from three different angles. I don’t get it.
It has made me want to see Standing at the Sky’s Edge though. The closing medley put me off ever wanting to see Grease. I thought the Seasons of Love bit was quite moving, especially seeing Paul O’Grady included. Derek Jacobi’s speech was nice too, as was Cush Jumbo crying her eyes out to it.
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Post by ncbears on Apr 3, 2023 16:53:48 GMT
How much of Jacobi, Hawley and Dame Arlene Phillips speeches were left in? (I guess that's difficult to answer if you didn't see the live versions. So, Jacobi seemed like he spoke for near 10 minutes, with many Olivier stories. Dame Phillipos also spoke for at least 10 minutes, it seemed. And Hawley, well, it was more than 40 seconds!) And what did they do of Hawley.
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Post by alece10 on Apr 3, 2023 16:56:54 GMT
How much of Jacobi, Hawley and Dame Arlene Phillips speeches were left in? (I guess that's difficult to answer if you didn't see the live versions. So, Jacobi seemed like he spoke for near 10 minutes, with many Olivier stories. Dame Phillipos also spoke for at least 10 minutes, it seemed. And Hawley, well, it was more than 40 seconds!) And what did they do of Hawley. We didn't get any of Hawleys speech apart from "other awards" at the end and about 10 seconds of him. Probably 2 or 3 minutes of Jacobi and same for Arlene Philips but what we heard wasn't that exciting, she rambled on about some green ballet shoes she had as a child as her mum couldn't afford pink ones.
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Post by ncbears on Apr 3, 2023 17:04:07 GMT
Too bad about not seeing Hawley! It was a highlight or lowlight - it was definitely a different light! A shame about Dame Phillips - she spoke about much more than the ballet shoes - she spoke about the struggles of women and eloquently so. I'm sure most of Jacobi's stories have been told in other venues/shows, but he is such a joy to just listen to. He talked about starting at Birmingham, playing Laertes and being invited by Olivier to the National - then more about Olivier and less about Jacobi.
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Post by madsonmelo on Apr 3, 2023 18:14:05 GMT
I liked the award, but I saw everything and sometime gets boring. Hannah is like DeBose at the Tonys, everyone is a friend and so on, but her voice is great.
I have to say that Beverley Knight was the name of the night for me, two performances and an award after three nominations, and that voice. Wow!
I think it's funny that ''Bands Visit'' got 10 Tonys but here won nothing, that's life, right?
The performance really made me want to see ''Oklahoma!'' tho.
Comer and Mescal winning, are they the youngest duo to do it so? Huge for both of them.
Also, kinda ironic that Stanley and Stella got the award, but not Blanche. Poor Blanche!
And I think its a matter of time about when will ''Totoro'' go to New York.
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Post by ncbears on Apr 3, 2023 19:02:37 GMT
In fairness to the Oliviers, when The Band's Visit won all those Tony Awards, the other eligible musicals were: Escape to Margaritaville Frozen Mean Girls Prince of Broadway SpongeBob SquarePants Summer: The Donna Summer Musical and the revivals of Carousel, My Fair Lady and Once On This Island didn't create much excitement, once the shows were seen.
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Post by distantcousin on Apr 3, 2023 19:14:40 GMT
That opening number - SOOO American. Why do we have to follow everything they do?! Utter cringe/cheesy AF.
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Post by ncbears on Apr 3, 2023 19:27:21 GMT
That opening number - SOOO American. Why do we have to follow everything they do?! Utter cringe/cheesy AF. You will have to ask "Anna Waddington" about it.
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Post by andrew on Apr 3, 2023 20:21:56 GMT
Only about halfway through watching on catch-up. Just focusing on the show itself
Opening number was awful. It's like someone watched one Tony Awards and thought oh yeah let's do that, you boy, do a song about how great the West End is. The best by far the Tony's have done are where they go absolutely nuts with scale, get cameos from much loved faces and fundamentally have a laugh with the lyrics. For me if you search YouTube for Neil Patrick Harris's openings they're all great examples of what to do with it. A sort of saccharine and under-produced thing with the long running musical costumes walking in is just a bit cringey in my view and fundamentally doesn't do the two things the Oliviers should do: be a celebration for theatre lovers, or be an advertisement for the West End.
Almost every musical performance was a bit rubbish this year. I totally agree with the other comments here about the camerawork and vision mixing, but even worse for me is the sound. It's always a bit on-and-off for musical theatre performances on TV, having 20-odd microphones to deal with plus the orchestra behind them is always difficult. But every single number this year (apart from The Band's Visit because it was so much simpler) you could barely hear the ensemble voices and always had whoever had just sung a solo verse painfully prominent in the mix. It just makes the whole thing very weak, if the lead is a bit flat it's awkward to listen to and fundamentally it means the chorus never builds to the frisson-producing big finish you want.
It doesn't help that a bunch of the shows put up slightly duff numbers. Sylvia got it right, and had a big standing ovation for doing so. Tammy Faye was just nowhere near the best song in that show, Newsies probably just needed that number re-arranged and re-choreographed for the time slot they had rather than trying to cut up what was already in the show. The two half songs from Oklahoma should've just been one properly performed song. Just lot's of bits like that. SASE did alright actually, I just didn't like the score so didn't like the song they performed.
I don't mind Hannah Waddingham as a host (no doubt she benefited from the extremely harsh editing that littered the ITV version) but she should've been given her a comedy writer to just give her a bit more entertainment value.
I'm sure the reason for a lot of this is the fact that nobody has the time or money to put effort into rehearsing this properly. The Tony's benefit from the fact they're extremely important for a shows success, so the show producers will put effort and money into a good performance. The awards are better produced (although not perfect by any means) probably because there's more money floating around. No idea what budget the Oliviers get given they're relegated to a very dead slot in the schedule on ITV.
With regards to the winners, I'm still salty that Newsies got snubbed, every winner was probably deserving. Who cares, only the opinion of TheatreBoard matters, not some crusty SOLT voters.
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Post by mattnyc on Apr 3, 2023 21:47:44 GMT
So in the UK, people don’t have access to the 4 hour version of the ceremony that I can just watch on YouTube?
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Post by n1david on Apr 3, 2023 22:05:37 GMT
So in the UK, people don’t have access to the 4 hour version of the ceremony that I can just watch on YouTube? That's right. We get a two-hour edited version on TV, or a slightly time-delayed radio broadcast. There are obviously ways around geoblocking, but the YouTube version is not available if their servers think you are in the UK.
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Post by mattnyc on Apr 3, 2023 22:13:01 GMT
Bizarre!
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Post by Dr Tom on Apr 4, 2023 21:51:33 GMT
Having been away for a week and only just had chance to watch the ceremony (cut UK version) and largely avoided spoilers, it's great to see a wide range of shows winning awards. Excellent choices all around and I'm chuffed for Arthur Darvill's best actor win.
The performances always look rather odd when they pull together random casts when shows have closed (or you spot the same performer appearing as a member of multiple shows). Newsies, I thought, was rather hurt by them having to change the dances around so much and to work within a structure that made no sense, but at least they managed to fit a lot of flips in. Contrary to others here, I thought they did a great job with Tammy Faye, a real rousing number. Songs out of place for little-known musicals are difficult.
Good to see the Arts Ed choir there too.
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Post by d'James on May 6, 2023 5:24:33 GMT
Just catching up. Who was the In Memoriam meant to be about? It certainly didn’t seem to be about those who died…
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