716 posts
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Post by theatre-turtle on Oct 13, 2018 22:27:53 GMT
Here's a clip of SS telling PL the general public doesn't know her name
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 22:49:49 GMT
They don't know your name either. Naff orf Sondheim.
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885 posts
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Post by lonlad on Oct 13, 2018 23:48:08 GMT
Poor Patti =-== how RUDE of Stevie especially since PL is THE name around which this show is being sold, apart from his of course. The general public may not know her but they sure as hell don't know Rosalie. Mel G is the biggest English "name" in the cast.
Patti should sue!
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Oct 14, 2018 0:03:13 GMT
He’s absolutely right, though, the ‘general public’ does not know who Lupone is, as opposed to we, the theatregoing public. We live in a bubble within a bubble.
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885 posts
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Post by lonlad on Oct 14, 2018 1:10:02 GMT
His point is well taken; his timing is not, and all it does is put Patti on the spot. And, in fact, the general (playgoing) public in the US do absolutely know who she is, as she points out in her riposte: she has spent a lifetime on stage cultivating that awareness.
Not one of SS's best moments .....
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Oct 14, 2018 3:47:05 GMT
Sondheim is not wrong. But this wasn't the time or place. You're here to promote the show. Promote it. This is not a theater panel to discuss the the industry amongst peers. And to make matters worse, he wasn't even talking in abstract form, and specifically uses his colleague as an example. If there was ever a moment of mansplaining, it was this.
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4,596 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 14, 2018 6:48:06 GMT
Mansplaining - is that when a man gets into trouble for putting his views into a debate?
I agree with Sondheim. Most people have heard of Cher but not Pattie. It’s a fact not a put down
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868 posts
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Post by karloscar on Oct 14, 2018 9:41:29 GMT
Sondheim is right in that theatre doesn't make stars any more. Actors can get a good career and be quite well known to those who attend theatre, but you need a film or TV hit to become a household name. Odd that he mentions Cher, when the Cher Show coming to Broadway has three non stars (sorry Stephanie Block) playing Cher. Patti is often the reason to see a show, but great though she is, most people wouldn't be able to identify her in a line up.
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on Oct 14, 2018 10:34:55 GMT
He was very brave saying that in front of her though! Mr Sondheim should be very grateful for still being alive! Taxi?
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18,844 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 14, 2018 10:45:39 GMT
It’s a statement of fact though isn’t it? How could she possibly be offended without looking like a total diva or a bit deluded? She’s not stupid, she’ll be quite well aware of her ‘reach’ outside the world of theatre. And he didn’t seem to be saying it unkindly or with malice.
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7,538 posts
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Post by alece10 on Oct 14, 2018 11:18:24 GMT
It’s a statement of fact though isn’t it? How could she possibly be offended without looking like a total diva or a bit deluded? She’s not stupid, she’ll be quite well aware of her ‘reach’ outside the world of theatre. And he didn’t seem to be saying it unkindly or with malice. It's true and if you look at the pre show interviews they brought out bake off Mel to be interviewed even though her part is relatively small. Because the public know who she is and not Patti. It's only MT fans and gays who know Patti.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 12:14:18 GMT
How interesting. On Broadway World people are defending Patti for calling out other stars in her Guardian interview because she is brash and outspoken and people love her for doing so. Here Sondheim offers a fairly verifiable fact in fairly mild terms and he is challenged for doing so. How we make meaning of what others say is so fascinating.
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1,909 posts
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Post by sf on Oct 14, 2018 14:31:13 GMT
It’s a statement of fact though isn’t it? How could she possibly be offended without looking like a total diva or a bit deluded? She’s not stupid, she’ll be quite well aware of her ‘reach’ outside the world of theatre. And he didn’t seem to be saying it unkindly or with malice.
And she opened the door.
Fascinatingly, neither of them seemed to be entirely aware that Cher herself is not actually in The Cher Show.
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1,909 posts
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Post by sf on Oct 14, 2018 14:52:05 GMT
His point is well taken; his timing is not, and all it does is put Patti on the spot. And, in fact, the general (playgoing) public in the US do absolutely know who she is, as she points out in her riposte: she has spent a lifetime on stage cultivating that awareness. Not one of SS's best moments .....
No, he was correct, although he could maybe have been more diplomatic. Take, for example, Hugh Jackman: 'The Boy from Oz', which had basically nothing going for it apart from Jackman's star turn, was a must-see hot ticket for a year thanks to Jackman. He started in theatre, but by then he was a film star and he had the kind of recognition Sondheim talks about in that interview. LuPone does have some box-office pull, but a Broadway show isn't going to sell out for a year on the strength of her name. 'Gypsy' didn't, 'War Paint' didn't, and those were both vehicles for her (granted, the latter was also a vehicle for Christine Ebersole). She simply isn't that kind of star.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 15:18:02 GMT
I get what Sondheim means to an extent - especially if I apply the same logic to the West End. When did we last have a legitimate west end star become a huge box office draw? We’ve had certain names build up a fanbase that enables them to branch out into doing their own solo work, but their names alone don’t guarantee a ticket sale hit.
I assume this is what Sondheim meant anyway. The biggest I can think of here is Kerry Ellis and Rachel Tucker, but both have struggled to find roles post Wicked and both have had to rely on Wicked’s fandom to branch out as solo acts (which is ultimately solo work that doesn’t actually help them find a new audience).
Even if we apply the same here to Company’s cast, the leading lady is one of the least known, despite extensive work in musical theatre over the last decade.
That all said - there’s a huge lack of new musicals that allow a person to build up any sort of name. Even Kerry Ellis has had to rely on big name revivals post Wicked to really create whatever west end stardom she has (including a trip back to Wicked itself).
I accept producers have a responsibility to get bums on seats and if that means getting someone well known in the show, then so be it. But I feel like musical theatre circles could do more to support its own community more - there’s a huge pool of talented, capable performers that can do the material justice... if the material is good enough.
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Oct 14, 2018 16:47:13 GMT
What about Idina Menzel? I feel that she's pretty much the only true MT performer with legit cross-over appeal.
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18,844 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 14, 2018 17:08:46 GMT
No one outside of theatre/musical theatre knows who Idina is.
Same goes for Tucker and Ellis. Not a clue.
Seriously, the friends I got to musicals with are all MT fans in so much that they see a lot of the stuff I see without having the vested interest in it that I do (as in being involved in the running of a forum). These names are nothing to them. If you describe who they are and what they have done you’ll get an “ohhhhh right” but other than that? No.
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Post by poster J on Oct 14, 2018 17:29:37 GMT
No one outside of theatre/musical theatre knows who Idina is. I think you're wrong about that - the whole world knows her as Elsa from Frozen.
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7,538 posts
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Post by alece10 on Oct 14, 2018 17:30:52 GMT
No one outside of theatre/musical theatre knows who Idina is. Same goes for Tucker and Ellis. Not a clue. Seriously, the friends I got to musicals with are all MT fans in so much that they see a lot of the stuff I see without having the vested interest in it that I do (as in being involved in the running of a forum). These names are nothing to them. If you describe who they are and what they have done you’ll get an “ohhhhh right” but other than that? No. Probably Elaine Paige is the only MT name you could mention to people who are not theatre fans and they would show any recognition followed by Imelda Staunton but you would probably have to add "that woman from Harry Potter and Vera Drake".
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5,288 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Oct 14, 2018 17:55:11 GMT
No one outside of theatre/musical theatre knows who Idina is. I think you're wrong about that - the whole world knows her as Elsa from Frozen. I think you’re wrong. They’d have to be told she was the voice of Elsa before any recognition. I bet Patti was livid with him.. I’m sure she sees herself as a huge box office draw.
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5,288 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Oct 14, 2018 17:55:55 GMT
No one outside of theatre/musical theatre knows who Idina is. Same goes for Tucker and Ellis. Not a clue. Seriously, the friends I got to musicals with are all MT fans in so much that they see a lot of the stuff I see without having the vested interest in it that I do (as in being involved in the running of a forum). These names are nothing to them. If you describe who they are and what they have done you’ll get an “ohhhhh right” but other than that? No. Probably Elaine Paige is the only MT name you could mention to people who are not theatre fans and they would show any recognition followed by Imelda Staunton but you would probably have to add "that woman from Harry Potter and Vera Drake". And Elaine Paige can’t sell many seats- as Drowsey proved.
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18,844 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 14, 2018 18:38:16 GMT
No one outside of theatre/musical theatre knows who Idina is. I think you're wrong about that - the whole world knows her as Elsa from Frozen. I’m totally prepared to be proven wrong. On your bus/tube/train commute tomorrow, ask random day to day people who Idina Menzel is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 19:01:22 GMT
What about Idina Menzel? I feel that she's pretty much the only true MT performer with legit cross-over appeal. Her starpower overall has weakened a bit I think. Her last couple of stage outings have not sold very well.
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Post by Boob on Oct 14, 2018 19:12:41 GMT
Don’t you mean my good friend, Adele Dazeem?
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868 posts
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Post by karloscar on Oct 14, 2018 19:28:06 GMT
I think you're wrong about that - the whole world knows her as Elsa from Frozen. I think you’re wrong. They’d have to be told she was the voice of Elsa before any recognition.[brF] I bet Patti was livid with him.. I’m sure she sees herself as a huge box office draw. Nobody gets livid with Sondheim, certainly not Lupone. She's been in the business so long I'm sure she has no illusions about her bankability, having had huge hits and absolute disasters along the way, and seeing that bigger names than her flop badly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 19:31:45 GMT
To wade in on the above: I’m pretty sure LuPone doesn’t care, she’s too busy being LuPone.
Second if being a nerdy fangirl has taught me anything is that everyone is a “Star” to someone somewhere, and there’s probably about 3 actors in the world who you could guarantee everyone from your Nan to a 7 year old would deem “famous”
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 19:36:29 GMT
Didn't the TheatreBoard's other doctor declare only a few days ago that he has no idea what a Cate Blanchett is? Even international movie star fame is relative.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 19:44:31 GMT
Didn't the TheatreBoard's other doctor declare only a few days ago that he has no idea what a Cate Blanchett is? Even international movie star fame is relative. ... another not other... There are more than two TheateBoarders with a PhD on here. (And I’ve heard of both.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 20:05:26 GMT
My bad, I only keep track of the ones who've written articles for NT programmes or who feel it's so incredibly important that everyone knows about their qualification that they put it in their display name.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2018 21:00:00 GMT
The best example is surely Kerry Ellis - the leading lady of the west end that couldn’t even get through the first round of The Voice.
Anyway, back to Company... do we think we’ll get a cast recording, or a recording of any kind at all? For such a limited run, I’d be surprised if they didn’t try and find a way to make a little bit more money... especially with it being the first production with the gender swap, such a brilliant cast and with the reactions it’s getting.
It really was a brilliant production. My only niggle is that I can’t really figure out why they changed the gender of the 3 possible partners too. Not that I complain... Richard was perfect casting.
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