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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 10, 2018 0:58:46 GMT
Say following on from the Dromsgrove’s Wilde season he decides to do a Shaw/Beckett Season (think this has been rumoured anyway). What plays by each Irish dramatist should be done?
same as the Wilde season you can have 4 for Show and the same for Beckett.
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Post by Jon on Feb 10, 2018 3:32:51 GMT
For the Shaw season, I imagine it'd be Pygmalion, Major Barbara, Heartbreak House and Mrs Warren's Profession.
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 10, 2018 9:49:05 GMT
For Shaw: Heartbreak House, Apple Cart, Devil's Disciple and Caesar&Cleopatra
As for Beckett, i doubt it would happen unless you had mahoosive stars vecause beyond Godot, joe public wint know the plays but Endgame, Happy Days and Krapps last tape. But as i say it should be Shaw next and i hope Dromgoole takes the opportunity to programme some of the plays not done for a while.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 10, 2018 10:00:42 GMT
Shaw will be everywhere in 2020 when he drops out of copyright.
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Post by Jan on Feb 10, 2018 10:06:07 GMT
Two of my least favourite playwrights - brothers in tedium. The best option would be Shaw's "Shakes versus Shav" which has a running time of ten minutes (and uses puppets) and Beckett's "Breath" which lasts 35 seconds.
I have always been vaguely interested in Shaw's other Shakespeare-related plays "Caesar and Cleopatra" and "Cymbeline Refinished" but doubt they'd be worthwhile. Best of a bad job would be "Pygmalion" and "Waiting for Godot".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 10:53:37 GMT
My Fair Lady please.
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Post by tonyloco on Feb 10, 2018 11:33:03 GMT
Two of my least favourite playwrights - brothers in tedium. The best option would be Shaw's "Shakes versus Shav" which has a running time of ten minutes (and uses puppets) and Beckett's "Breath" which lasts 35 seconds. Just for a bit more tonyloco showing off, here is part of what I wrote about the production of Sondheim's 'The Frogs' recently at the Jermyn Street Theatre: "In the original play by Aristophenes, the competition is between the Greek poets Aeschelus and Euripides (they are mentioned in the verse of Cole Porter’s ‘Brush Up Your Shakespeare’) and it is this competition that is replaced by the competition between Shakespeare and Shaw as envisaged by Shaw himself in the very last play he ever wrote – a ten minute piece for puppets where the two rivals quote from their own works in trying to outdo each other on various subjects. It made me feel very smug that I recognised this play by Shaw – nobody else anywhere mentions the existence of Shaw’s play." Thus the memoirs are coming along nicely! |
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 10, 2018 11:39:55 GMT
Two of my least favourite playwrights - brothers in tedium. The best option would be Shaw's "Shakes versus Shav" which has a running time of ten minutes (and uses puppets) and Beckett's "Breath" which lasts 35 seconds. I have always been vaguely interested in Shaw's other Shakespeare-related plays "Caesar and Cleopatra" and "Cymbeline Refinished" but doubt they'd be worthwhile. Best of a bad job would be "Pygmalion" and "Waiting for Godot". Half agree with you as ive never "got" Beckett but you cant, indeed i would argue, shouldnt like everyone. I saw C&C ages ago with Alec McCowen and Amanda Root, very good. I love Shaw, he is one of the titans. |
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 10, 2018 11:40:41 GMT
Shaw will be everywhere in 2020 when he drops out of copyright. Cant wait☺ |
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Post by Jan on Feb 10, 2018 13:47:20 GMT
Two of my least favourite playwrights - brothers in tedium. The best option would be Shaw's "Shakes versus Shav" which has a running time of ten minutes (and uses puppets) and Beckett's "Breath" which lasts 35 seconds. I have always been vaguely interested in Shaw's other Shakespeare-related plays "Caesar and Cleopatra" and "Cymbeline Refinished" but doubt they'd be worthwhile. Best of a bad job would be "Pygmalion" and "Waiting for Godot". Half agree with you as ive never "got" Beckett but you cant, indeed i would argue, shouldnt like everyone. I saw C&C ages ago with Alec McCowen and Amanda Root, very good. I love Shaw, he is one of the titans. Amanda Root. Haven’t seen her for ages. Juliet opposite Daniel Day-Lewis’ Romeo in the best production of that play I’ve seen. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 10, 2018 13:59:00 GMT
I haven’t seen too much of Shaw.
But I would like to see Major Barbara, Mre Warren’s Profession, The Doctor’s Dilemma and Man an Superman. But a commercial producer drop 2 of my suggestions and do Pygmalion and Saint Joan.
For Beckett obviously Waiting for Godot, Endgame, Happy Days and one other Maybe All That Fall.
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 10, 2018 14:49:44 GMT
I haven’t seen too much of Shaw. But I would like to see Major Barbara, Mre Warren’s Profession, The Doctor’s Dilemma and Man an Superman. But a commercial producer drop 2 of my suggestions and do Pygmalion and Saint Joan. For Beckett obviously Waiting for Godot, Endgame, Happy Days and one other Maybe All That Fall. Hmmm, Mrs Warren had WE run and tour not too long ago and the other three on your list have all had recent revivals at the NT. I would hope Dromgoole will pick some others. |
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Post by lynette on Feb 10, 2018 14:50:53 GMT
Two of my least favourite playwrights - brothers in tedium. The best option would be Shaw's "Shakes versus Shav" which has a running time of ten minutes (and uses puppets) and Beckett's "Breath" which lasts 35 seconds. Just for a bit more tonyloco showing off, here is part of what I wrote about the production of Sondheim's 'The Frogs' recently at the Jermyn Street Theatre: "In the original play by Aristophenes, the competition is between the Greek poets Aeschelus and Euripides (they are mentioned in the verse of Cole Porter’s ‘Brush Up Your Shakespeare’) and it is this competition that is replaced by the competition between Shakespeare and Shaw as envisaged by Shaw himself in the very last play he ever wrote – a ten minute piece for puppets where the two rivals quote from their own works in trying to outdo each other on various subjects. It made me feel very smug that I recognised this play by Shaw – nobody else anywhere mentions the existence of Shaw’s play." Thus the memoirs are coming along nicely! Yes, Shaw saw himself as Shakespeare's equal didn't he? But Shaw , though he has his moments, isn’t 'for all time'. We don’t 'speak' Shaw every day do we? But funnily enough we often quote Willie as we make our way through this imperfect world. Ryan, I’m all for another My Fair Lady, which I consider a superior work to Pygmalion. Causes the odd argument in my house 😉 |
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 10, 2018 14:52:33 GMT
Half agree with you as ive never "got" Beckett but you cant, indeed i would argue, shouldnt like everyone. I saw C&C ages ago with Alec McCowen and Amanda Root, very good. I love Shaw, he is one of the titans. Amanda Root. Haven’t seen her for ages. Juliet opposite Daniel Day-Lewis’ Romeo in the best production of that play I’ve seen. Didnt see that but i think she is v underrated. Her RSC season in 1990 as Cressida and Rosaline both opp Ralph Fiennes was superb. She seems to pick her roles sparingly these days. |
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 10, 2018 14:53:31 GMT
Just for a bit more tonyloco showing off, here is part of what I wrote about the production of Sondheim's 'The Frogs' recently at the Jermyn Street Theatre: "In the original play by Aristophenes, the competition is between the Greek poets Aeschelus and Euripides (they are mentioned in the verse of Cole Porter’s ‘Brush Up Your Shakespeare’) and it is this competition that is replaced by the competition between Shakespeare and Shaw as envisaged by Shaw himself in the very last play he ever wrote – a ten minute piece for puppets where the two rivals quote from their own works in trying to outdo each other on various subjects. It made me feel very smug that I recognised this play by Shaw – nobody else anywhere mentions the existence of Shaw’s play." Thus the memoirs are coming along nicely! Yes, Shaw saw himself as Shakespeare's equal didn't he? But Shaw , though he has his moments, isn’t 'for all time'. We don’t 'speak' Shaw every day do we? But funnily enough we often quote Willie as we make our way through this imperfect world. Ryan, I’m all for another My Fair Lady, which I consider a superior work to Pygmalion. Causes the odd argument in my house 😉 Hmmm, yes lets agree to disagree on that L! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 20:35:06 GMT
Beckett: Footfalls, Krapp’s last Tape, Not I, Waiting for Godot
Shaw: St Joan, Pygmalion, Major Barbara - can’t think of another I want to see.
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Post by Jan on Feb 11, 2018 5:24:10 GMT
Just for a bit more tonyloco showing off, here is part of what I wrote about the production of Sondheim's 'The Frogs' recently at the Jermyn Street Theatre: "In the original play by Aristophenes, the competition is between the Greek poets Aeschelus and Euripides (they are mentioned in the verse of Cole Porter’s ‘Brush Up Your Shakespeare’) and it is this competition that is replaced by the competition between Shakespeare and Shaw as envisaged by Shaw himself in the very last play he ever wrote – a ten minute piece for puppets where the two rivals quote from their own works in trying to outdo each other on various subjects. It made me feel very smug that I recognised this play by Shaw – nobody else anywhere mentions the existence of Shaw’s play." Thus the memoirs are coming along nicely! Yes, Shaw saw himself as Shakespeare's equal didn't he? But Shaw , though he has his moments, isn’t 'for all time'. We don’t 'speak' Shaw every day do we? But funnily enough we often quote Willie as we make our way through this imperfect world. Ryan, I’m all for another My Fair Lady, which I consider a superior work to Pygmalion. Causes the odd argument in my house 😉 The late Howard Davies directed both. A successful Pygmalion at NT then an unsuccessful My Fair Lady on Broadway. Someone said at the time he directed Pygmalion as if it was My Fair Lady but then My Fair Lady as if it was Pygmalion, hence the relative success of each production. |
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Post by showgirl on Feb 11, 2018 5:58:15 GMT
Unlike some I do like (selected) Shaw plays and have enjoyed filling in the gaps recently as the lesser-known have been produced. However, I think I may now have ticked all those off and as for Beckett, not for me, ever, and I don't see that changing.
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 11, 2018 20:27:11 GMT
I haven’t seen too much of Shaw. But I would like to see Major Barbara, Mre Warren’s Profession, The Doctor’s Dilemma and Man an Superman. But a commercial producer drop 2 of my suggestions and do Pygmalion and Saint Joan. For Beckett obviously Waiting for Godot, Endgame, Happy Days and one other Maybe All That Fall. Hmmm, Mrs Warren had WE run and tour not too long ago and the other three on your list have all had recent revivals at the NT. I would hope Dromgoole will pick some others. You make a great point. However popular plays get put on frequently now, think of the Importance of Being Earnest, this year it would be its third revival in 6 years. People flock back for great titles, especially if there is a star included. it was 2010 that Mrs Warren’s Profession was revived with Feliciy Kendal at the Comedy. Simin makes a great point about Shaw, he comes out of copyright in 2020, so any producer would hold their breathe for 2 years. |
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Post by lynette on Feb 11, 2018 22:18:19 GMT
Star names would attract an audience and maybe the cognoscenti would flock to the few actors that we know are really worth seeing ( me, Rory Kinnear 😁) but most of Shaw is like boring homework. Sorry, but there you are. Maybe in 2020 someone will do something exciting with his work and it will revive. I know I risk being proved horribly wrong like the man who turned down the Beatles 😂😂
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Post by peggs on Feb 11, 2018 22:31:57 GMT
I don't know if I've just got lucky with the Shaw I've seen which did all star well known, very good actors, NTs st joan, Major Barbara, Man and superman and Pygmalion at the old vic I think? as I really enjoyed them all and off the back of them would probably be inclined to see more. Beckett I've just see Godot and Happy Days and whilst I think I saw good productions they both left me slightly uncomfortable and unnerved that it probably would require someone a really like to call me back.
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Post by lynette on Feb 12, 2018 19:50:11 GMT
I’ll be honest, I've seen brilliant actresses in Happy Days and it is a challenging piece. But the last one, I had to leave. It is very hard to take.
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Post by Jan on Feb 12, 2018 19:57:49 GMT
Star names would attract an audience and maybe the cognoscenti would flock to the few actors that we know are really worth seeing ( me, Rory Kinnear 😁) but most of Shaw is like boring homework. Sorry, but there you are. Maybe in 2020 someone will do something exciting with his work and it will revive. I know I risk being proved horribly wrong like the man who turned down the Beatles 😂😂 Shaw ranked himself alongside Shakespeare so maybe they should treat him like Shakespeare: set it in modern dress, cut 45 minutes off the running time, write extra text to clarify the plot and swap the gender of characters - when he’s out of copyright he’s fair game. |
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Post by peggs on Feb 12, 2018 21:02:31 GMT
I’ll be honest, I've seen brilliant actresses in Happy Days and it is a challenging piece. But the last one, I had to leave. It is very hard to take. Good to know, come to realise they might be plays I shouldn't see alone and then go home alone as really need taking out of my head  |
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 12, 2018 21:11:20 GMT
Star names would attract an audience and maybe the cognoscenti would flock to the few actors that we know are really worth seeing ( me, Rory Kinnear 😁) but most of Shaw is like boring homework. Sorry, but there you are. Maybe in 2020 someone will do something exciting with his work and it will revive. I know I risk being proved horribly wrong like the man who turned down the Beatles 😂😂 Was that the one at the Young Vic with Juliet Stevenson. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 8:16:30 GMT
Are people regularly cutting 45 minutes out of Shakespeare plays these days? Please let me know which companies these are so I can stop subjecting myself to 3+ hour trips to the RSC and the Globe.
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Post by Jan on Feb 13, 2018 8:41:28 GMT
Are people regularly cutting 45 minutes out of Shakespeare plays these days? Please let me know which companies these are so I can stop subjecting myself to 3+ hour trips to the RSC and the Globe. Bridge Julius Caesar and McKellan King Lear and Almeida Hamlet were all heavily cut. However RSC Titus Andronicus managed to run much longer than is usual for that play. I was talking to a director the other day and they had been asked to direct a particular play and their contract specifically stated the running time (it needed lots of cuts to meet it). |
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Post by johng on Feb 13, 2018 11:00:34 GMT
McKellen King Lear ran 2 hours 55 minutes plus interval in the Minerva and Almeida Hamlet 3 hours 6 minutes plus intervals so not "heavily cut" surely.
Rose Bankside currently doing an 80 minute Macbeth and next month a 90 minute Loves Laboours Lost.
My highlights of 2017 included a 60 minute one actor Richard III in the back room of a pub, and a 93 minute plus interval two performer puppet Richard II in the freezing cellar of an art gallery in Brighton. This took place under a plastic roof in a biblical downpour and was one of the best Shakespeare productions I've ever seen. It's my favourite play and I normally like a full three hours at least as almost every word is joyous to me, but this showed how malleable these plays are.
Also Richard III in Salisbury Cathedral at under 2 hours plus interval required a lot of cutting for what is a very long text, but managed to retain Queen Margaret, who sadly often seems to get excised when a reduced running time is required.
Certainly the RSC could have improved all 3 Roman plays I saw (I missed JC due to being "Southerned" on the inward journey) by cutting 20-30 minutes from them.
Beckett would benefit from allowing more imaginative adaptations but that's not going to happen while they are treated with such absurd reverence and rigidity.
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Post by jasper on Feb 13, 2018 11:41:25 GMT
McKellen King Lear ran 2 hours 55 minutes plus interval in the Minerva and Almeida Hamlet 3 hours 6 minutes plus intervals so not "heavily cut" surely. Rose Bankside currently doing an 80 minute Macbeth and next month a 90 minute Loves Laboours Lost. My highlights of 2017 included a 60 minute one actor Richard III in the back room of a pub, and a 93 minute plus interval two performer puppet Richard II in the freezing cellar of an art gallery in Brighton. This took place under a plastic roof in a biblical downpour and was one of the best Shakespeare productions I've ever seen. It's my favourite play and I normally like a full three hours at least as almost every word is joyous to me, but this showed how malleable these plays are. Also Richard III in Salisbury Cathedral at under 2 hours plus interval required a lot of cutting for what is a very long text, but managed to retain Queen Margaret, who sadly often seems to get excised when a reduced running time is required. Certainly the RSC could have improved all 3 Roman plays I saw (I missed JC due to being "Southerned" on the inward journey) by cutting 20-30 minutes from them. Beckett would benefit from allowing more imaginative adaptations but that's not going to happen while they are treated with such absurd reverence and rigidity. I think you will find it is the Beckett estate who specify the plays must be played as written and not choices of the creative team. Footfalls with Fiona Shaw was a problem for them. |
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Post by johng on Feb 13, 2018 11:59:11 GMT
Not just the estate but Beckett himself, as shown by the note he legally insisted be added to the programme of a 1984 production:
“Any production of Endgame which ignores my stage directions is completely unacceptable to me. My play requires an empty room and two small windows. The American Repertory Theater production which dismisses my directions is a complete parody of the play as conceived by me. Anybody who cares for the work couldn’t fail to be disgusted by this.”
The Footfalls led to Beckett's literary agent issuing a statement that "the director will be forbidden to do his plays in the future", while Billie Whitelaw said she "felt as if Samuel Beckett were burned at the stake; I felt numb, physically ill."
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