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Post by sph on Aug 30, 2021 20:55:56 GMT
I totally understand the disappointment people felt booking to see Glenn Close in Sunset Boulevard for example and then finding out she was off that night. Nor should they, otherwise hardly anyone could afford to take on the burden of putting on a star vehicle production. For example, if Bette Midler got sick and missed a month of her run in Hello Dolly the finances would be completely different to her just missing one show. That's why a refund guarantee makes no commercial sense whatsoever and no-one should feel entitled to one. Exchanges are perhaps different but generally the shows affected by the absence of a star will be such a hot ticket that there wouldn't be availability to switch everyone. And they still need an audience for the understudy show. Also, you say that, but wouldn't Midler's run in Dolly have come under the "above the title" rule? If so your point doesn't apply to the production you use as an example. In such a case producers understand the huge gamble they are taking to produce a show based on a star. If Midler had missed a performance, they'd have taken the financial hit. If she were signed off sick for a month they'd have SCRAMBLED to find a replacement star of similar stature in order to alleviate audience disappointment, similar to how producers had to quickly book Sutton Foster for Anything Goes when Megan Mullally was unable to play the role. |
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Post by Jon on Aug 30, 2021 20:59:52 GMT
Two different things are being conflated here though - tickets and feelings. I think everyone can understand feeling disappointed about the person you wanted to see not being on, and I don't think anyone would say that isn't perfectly natural. But feelings don't govern the terms and conditions of any business. Simple as that. Nor should they, otherwise hardly anyone could afford to take on the burden of putting on a star vehicle production. For example, if Bette Midler got sick and missed a month of her run in Hello Dolly the finances would be completely different to her just missing one show. That's why a refund guarantee makes no commercial sense whatsoever and no-one should feel entitled to one. Exchanges are perhaps different but generally the shows affected by the absence of a star will be such a hot ticket that there wouldn't be availability to switch everyone. And they still need an audience for the understudy show. The Linzi situation is slightly different as she isn't an A-List star and there are some tickets left for another performance she's scheduled to do, but there is also something to be said for not opening a can of worms and setting a precedent not all shows could live up to. It's also a shame how many people in this thread seem not to care about the understudies at all, and rudely dismiss them out of hand and demand a refund rather than taking a chance and potentially seeing a future star. Sheridan Smith in Funny Girl is what I thought of when this discussion came up. She was off for a month or two and if the producers decided to refund the majority of the audience for the time she was off, the show would have had to close and poor Sheridan would have gotten the blame for throwing people out of work. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 30, 2021 21:30:04 GMT
One issue from my point of view about getting a refund/exchange if the performer you specifically booked to see is of is how far down do you go? I've seen a number of shows over the years because performers I like have been in shows in supporting roles. So if someone who's booked in just order to see a "star" gets a refund if the star is off then what about someone who's booked just to see a performer in a smaller role who's off? Do they get a refund too?
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Post by sph on Aug 30, 2021 21:38:01 GMT
One issue from my point of view about getting a refund/exchange if the performer you specifically booked to see is of is how far down do you go? I've seen a number of shows over the years because performers I like have been in shows in supporting roles. So if someone who's booked in just order to see a "star" gets a refund if the star is off then what about someone who's booked just to see a performer in a smaller role who's off? Do they get a refund too? No, as that person is not being used to sell the production. Hence the "above the title" rule. |
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Post by caroliner on Aug 30, 2021 21:42:41 GMT
One issue from my point of view about getting a refund/exchange if the performer you specifically booked to see is of is how far down do you go? I've seen a number of shows over the years because performers I like have been in shows in supporting roles. So if someone who's booked in just order to see a "star" gets a refund if the star is off then what about someone who's booked just to see a performer in a smaller role who's off? Do they get a refund too? I wonder what the deal is if you're booking to watch a non-immediate family member..?! If I had a nephew performing as a kid in Joseph, and I couldn't get a guest ticket, and the nephew is off sick, you'd imagine they'd exchange the ticket right..?! But anyway, I agree, official exchange policies can't work, because where do you draw the line? I do feel though (as another poster said) there's room for discretion and to be honest I was surprised yesterday when the manager said nothing could be done. I wasn't angry, didn't stamp my feet etc... just expressed my disappointment in a polite/friendly/sincere way. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 30, 2021 21:47:47 GMT
One issue from my point of view about getting a refund/exchange if the performer you specifically booked to see is of is how far down do you go? I've seen a number of shows over the years because performers I like have been in shows in supporting roles. So if someone who's booked in just order to see a "star" gets a refund if the star is off then what about someone who's booked just to see a performer in a smaller role who's off? Do they get a refund too? I wonder what the deal is if you're booking to watch a non-immediate family member..?! If I had a nephew performing as a kid in Joseph, and I couldn't get a guest ticket, and the nephew is off sick, you'd imagine they'd exchange the ticket right..?! But anyway, I agree, official exchange policies can't work, because where do you draw the line? I do feel though (as another poster said) there's room for discretion and to be honest I was surprised yesterday when the manager said nothing could be done. I wasn't angry, didn't stamp my feet etc... just expressed my disappointment in a polite/friendly/sincere way.If it had happened to me for Glenn’ in Sunset I’d have been like Squeaky Mouse Woman on Airline. |
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Post by Roxie on Aug 30, 2021 22:12:05 GMT
Ha ha Burly! That woman is ridiculous!
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Post by Jon on Aug 30, 2021 22:15:15 GMT
I have no shame in admitting that I enjoy watching the likes of Airline and Heathrow: Britain's Busiest Airport!
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Post by Roxie on Aug 30, 2021 22:16:15 GMT
I need to chip in here cos I know quite a bit about consumer law. A show is a service so under the consumer rights act it must be performed with reasonable care and skill (amongst other things but that’s the main one that applies). It’s also covered under contract law so there will be terms and conditions that apply and that you will have had to agree to when you buy a ticket. If the theatre put on a show as agreed to a reasonable standard, then they’ve fulfilled the contract and CRA so as a consumer you don’t have legal rights to a refund. If you think they’ve breached their contract by not putting on an advertised star then you need to check terms and conditions to see if they stipulate the appearance of said star. If not, it becomes very difficult. I can understand why people feel they want a refund but they are not legally entitled to one in most circumstances. You pay to see a show and understudies exist to fill a gap so the show can go on. Unfortunately the nature of the beast has always been even pre pandemic that certain people cannot be guaranteed and that’s even more likely in these days when there’s daily covid tests and one positive result can bench a performer for 10 days! It’s always disappointing when the person you booked to see isn’t on, but it is what it is and can’t be helped. Life’s full of disappointment, u just handle it like an adult, take it on the chin, square your shoulders and move on without stamping your foot or being miserable about it. Hi Roxie! Thanks for your post. Personally, I'm absolutely aware of the T&Cs... I do take it on the chin, but also can't help but feel a tad miserable at the same time!  Out of interest though... (again, I don't want a refund, never did) THIS is my one issue in terms of the "contract" - when I booked my ticket on Saturday morning (for Sunday evening's performance), the ticketing website specifically said "At this performance the role of the Narrator will be played be Linzi Hateley". It also specified her in the role for both of Saturday's performances, and Sunday's matinee. Having done a bit of digging, it seems Linzi dropped out of Saturday's performances, and Sunday's matinee, as early as Thursday - so this wasn't a last-minute withdrawal. I don't think it's right that the official ticketing website (ie literally point of sale) had the wrong information and sold tickets specifying Linzi as the Narrator at a time when she'd dropped out two days earlier. On this basis, I'd probably be within my rights to request a refund, but I won't be. What's your view on this though, from a consumer law point of view? Linzi was still being sold as the Narrator five minutes before my show started - I screen-grabbed the page as proof! You could argue it’s misleading advertising but they might argue you agreed to T&Cs saying the appearance of a star isn’t guaranteed and then if you couldn’t agree you’d have to duke it out in court! It’s difficult to say who’s in the right and who’s in the wrong cos there’s laws yes but the decision of whether they’re being followed correctly can usually only be made by a judge. How do you know she dropped out on Thursday? I know she dropped out of Thursdays show on Thursday but I always thought it was a ‘see how you feel on the day’ thing. |
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Post by caroliner on Aug 30, 2021 22:34:08 GMT
You could argue it’s misleading advertising but they might argue you agreed to T&Cs saying the appearance of a star isn’t guaranteed and then if you couldn’t agree you’d have to duke it out in court! It’s difficult to say who’s in the right and who’s in the wrong cos there’s laws yes but the decision of whether they’re being followed correctly can usually only be made by a judge. How do you know she dropped out on Thursday? I know she dropped out of Thursdays show on Thursday but I always thought it was a ‘see how you feel on the day’ thing. On Thursday evening someone (who'd attended Thursday's matinee to see Linzi) said they were tempted to book again for Sunday, assuming Linzi would be back by then, and Linzi said "5 o clock show fingers crossed". So clearly her involvement for the weekend was at least very much up in the air on Thursday. They really should have amended the ticketing page, I think we can all agree on that! |
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Post by mkb on Sept 1, 2021 1:12:14 GMT
Where it's completely unacceptable is when a production is charging premium pricing above what the same show would normally command without the star name. Angela Lansbury in Blithe Spirit springs to mind.
If that star were off, and replaced by someone of lesser celebrity, no matter how great an actor, I would be pretty peeved if I wasn't given the options of a refund or rebooking.
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Post by sfsusan on Sept 9, 2021 17:55:58 GMT
like Squeaky Mouse Woman on Airline. From her reaction, I originally assumed she'd missed a flight to a dying loved one's bedside! |
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Post by Dawnstar on Sept 9, 2021 18:54:06 GMT
Sheridan Smith in Funny Girl is what I thought of when this discussion came up. She was off for a month or two and if the producers decided to refund the majority of the audience for the time she was off, the show would have had to close and poor Sheridan would have gotten the blame for throwing people out of work. The Menier were wonderful about this though - they knew Sheridan was the draw and were more than happy to change ticket dates so people could see her, including swapping tickets for the Chocolate Factory to the Savoy. It was very handy because then people like me, who wanted to see the show but not see Sheridan Smith, could get tickets at the last minute when Natasha Barnes was confirmed to be on. I got an excellent seat for what was IIRC the final performance at the Menier only an hour or so beforehand. |
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