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Post by lynette on Aug 9, 2021 22:37:56 GMT
That was the only Saturday on offer from the Mayor's office from what I understand Cos all the other Sats taken up with marches of protesters……. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 9, 2021 23:09:53 GMT
Other events like West End Live...
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Post by Jon on Aug 10, 2021 0:19:54 GMT
I find it odd that London Pride can't go ahead but Brighton Pride is going ahead this month.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 7:08:58 GMT
I find it odd that London Pride can't go ahead but Brighton Pride is going ahead this month. I thought Brighton Pride was cancelled? Was it not supposed to be last weekend but is now smaller events across the month? |
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Post by n1david on Aug 10, 2021 8:08:04 GMT
The main Brighton Pride event was cancelled. Manchester Pride is going ahead this month without its parade, but the organisers have got a lot of flak for what they have arranged and their perceived lack of support for LGBT+ charities and businesses, and their CEO has resigned.
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Post by richey on Aug 10, 2021 18:31:18 GMT
The main Brighton Pride event was cancelled. Manchester Pride is going ahead this month without its parade, but the organisers have got a lot of flak for what they have arranged and their perceived lack of support for LGBT+ charities and businesses, and their CEO has resigned. The CEO has not resigned. There is a petition calling for it but so far he has steadfastly avoided any interaction with the public, including locking his Twitter account and dropping out of an interview on Gaydio this morning. It is more than a "percieved" lack of support- after 27 years Manchester Pride has dropped funding for a free safe sex pack that they produced in conjunction with a local charity amongst other things. Yes the parade was cancelled, supposedly for safety reasons, yet all of the money making parts of the weeknd including the music festival, are still going ahead. |
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Post by n1david on Aug 11, 2021 8:55:40 GMT
Thanks for the correction. I had read a tweet which said he had gone but that was obviously premature!
It does seem that large-scale Pride events in the UK are struggling with their identity, London Pride has been here before in 2012 and the late 90s. We have seen an upsurge in more local Prides, many of which have been able to take place, and maybe the big city events need to think more about servicing their local population rather than being tourist magnets.
Somehow I am reminded of the discussions we have had on here about the Edinburgh Fringe, another event which has grown and perhaps lost its original intentions. I am not in Edinburgh this year but I hear positive things from those who are, it's not the same but there's a greater level of engagement. I wonder if the pandemic means that large scale Pride events should rethink their purpose.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 11, 2021 13:09:01 GMT
The purpose of Pride in London for me has always been to take over the centre of the capital with a combination of protest and celebration. Being out, loud and unapologetic.
And being free to attend
Not being in a park. Not hiding.
Not a pop concert. Not charging people to walk through Soho.
Yes it causes disruption. But that is rather the point. And it is one day per year.
You can't achieve that in a small way. It is an all or nothing thing for me. A day of a million people. A day of glitter. A day of Pride and Protest.
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Post by n1david on Aug 11, 2021 14:05:24 GMT
The problem is that Pride in London hasn't been about mass participation for a while. It's about 30,000 people being able to march in a parade - those affiliated to sponsoring companies or community groups - while the rest of us stand and watch. Trafalgar Square fills up too early and so for many of us who aren't employed by a tame employer or manage to get one of the wristbands we are only observers. I know that the intention for 2020 was to significantly increase the number of people attending from community groups, but the numbers were still severely limited.
I know that there are huge issues around the scale of the organisation, but I haven't felt like a participant in Pride for some years. I'll stand and watch the Parade, alongside the surprised tourists, the locals waving flags and the other unaffiliated members of our community. But I'm not expressing MY Pride, I'm watching other people express theirs. (And I know that having a go at sponsoring companies is cheap, given how much they pay to participate, but something distinctly odd is going on when my sister - who is straight - is invited every year to march because she is part of the ally group in her organisation, while I cannot)
I'm not meaning to denigrate the organisers who have a very difficult line to tread given that there are so many people who want to participate. And I don't know what the answer is. All I know is that I used to be part of Pride. And I don't feel like I am any more. So after I've watched the Parade for a bit and got turned away from Trafalgar Square, I'll go off drinking in Soho. Alongside the many casual observers who have just chosen to enjoy their day in town, whether they are part of our community or not. And I'll resign myself to being just an attendee and not a participant any more.
My first Pride was 1992 and that was a march through the centre of town and a free party in a park. I know it can't be that any more. But I'm not sure what it is.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 11, 2021 14:41:45 GMT
In 2019, no community group (who met the participation criteria and vetting) was denied space on the parade - meaning that the number of spaces for corporate groups was reduced. I believe the numbers were expanded to 36000 as a result. I don't know how many spaces were made available to individuals who wished to march - but I know that provision exists)
That is about the maximum given the length of time it takes for the parade to travel the route - any longer and it is impossible to have the parade finish in time. 2019 I think it took 6 hours for everyone to make it along the route - which is the limit of what it permitted from what I understand.
Trafalgar Square is only one of the places where there is a stage. IIRC there were 5 stages/areas as part of the 2019 event (I didn't get to the all as I ended up having to attend an emergency clinic because my wrist was injured by an attendee being rather to vigourous in their handshaking... best not to dwell on that though)
Trying to balance community and individual participation with the needs to pay for a huge event is never going to be easy. But I would rather it was that way round than being charged to enter the centre of London and then being charged more because a pop star was performing. And the aim is to maximise community involvement. It will never be able to include everyone - but I don't know a Pride format that would.
One thing that is coming and that is a Quiet Pride space - so that those who don't like crowds and noise can still be part of the day in a meaningful way. I have been pushing for it for some time and hopefully 2022 will see that come to fruition.
There are limitations placed on Pride in London by the Mayor's Office and the various local councils about the format, size and timing of the day - which will never make life any easier.
Getting the balance right for everyone is impossible - but I think the heart of Pride - that necessary combination of Party and Protest - is well represented in London by a free event with a range of different activities and spaces.
It isn't a perfect organisation (I know from personal experience) but it is evolving, it is trying listen and learn.
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Post by n1david on Aug 11, 2021 15:04:12 GMT
The problem isn't so much the number of community groups, it's the number of wristbands that these groups get. And the problem is it's never going to be enough to satisfy the number of people who want to march. I was at World Pride in NYC in 2019 and their parade was still going after ten hours. You have to wonder if there was anyone left to watch by that time.
I know it isn't easy, which is why I was at pains to point out that I don't know what the answer is and I do think that the organisers on the whole do a decent job given the constraints. But it's a shame that I can no longer get a bunch of friends together and march together like we used to. Some can march with their companies, some can march with community groups, others can't march at all. But we're no longer identified as gay people as individuals, we have to be connected to an organisation, commercial or community. You made me aware previously of the provision for individuals in 2019, which I had not been aware of. I was looking out for it in 2020, but unfortunately applications for that group did not open in 2020 or 2021 before the events were delayed/cancelled.
It is a victim of its own success, which is why I wonder if smaller Pride events in more local communities will give some LGBTQ+ people a greater sense of participation and engagement. As I implied in my post earlier today, I don't think Brighton or Manchester have got the mix right either.
Bottom line is I'm just an grumpy old queen who misses the old days when it felt like I knew half the people in the Pride parade and it was a day for catching up with friends and acquaintances. Harrumph!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 11, 2021 15:31:08 GMT
I would - being honest - prefer it if Pride in London morphed into a full UK Pride event which would then allow for your idea of smaller prides to pop up in London.
I think our capital should be the national focus for a Pride event. But I can also see that there would be those who would prefer the national event to move round the country so as not to be London-centric
There is no right answer but as long as we maintain a protest element alongside the party and that we make a nuisance of ourselves in the middle of London then we are doing the right thing. Plus keeping it free.
I hate the idea of paying for access to a Pride event. If London ever moved away from that I would boycott it.
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Post by vdcni on Aug 11, 2021 17:16:40 GMT
Clearly London Pride should remain London focused, Pride's are city based which allows them all to have a unique atmosphere.
It's a shame we're losing it this year even though it's been run into the ground for the last decade or so.
Any parade over two hours is too long. San Fran Pride and Sydney Mardis Gras are dull and it's a shame London has been allowed to go the same way.
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Post by kathryn on Aug 13, 2021 21:49:18 GMT
The main Brighton Pride event was cancelled. Manchester Pride is going ahead this month without its parade, but the organisers have got a lot of flak for what they have arranged and their perceived lack of support for LGBT+ charities and businesses, and their CEO has resigned. The CEO has not resigned. There is a petition calling for it but so far he has steadfastly avoided any interaction with the public, including locking his Twitter account and dropping out of an interview on Gaydio this morning. It is more than a "percieved" lack of support- after 27 years Manchester Pride has dropped funding for a free safe sex pack that they produced in conjunction with a local charity amongst other things. Yes the parade was cancelled, supposedly for safety reasons, yet all of the money making parts of the weeknd including the music festival, are still going ahead. Reading the Gruan article about this and it’s clear Manchester Pride has lost its way. Someone must be making a hefty chunk of change out of it with millions in revenue and only 3% of it actually going to charity in recent years. And now they’ve found excuses to not even pay that much out to charity. That’s not a community event, or a protest; it’s just another commercial music festival. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 14, 2021 8:01:01 GMT
Manchester Pride has been controversial for blatantly misrepresenting the facts when it comes to charging people a fee to walk along the public streets of Manchester in the Village area despite the Department for Transport explicitly ruling in 2013 that this was unlawful. The whole thing is rotten to the core and should be stopped in it’s current form. www.factsmcr.com/ |
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Post by richey on Aug 14, 2021 9:26:30 GMT
Manchester Pride has been controversial for blatantly misrepresenting the facts when it comes to charging people a fee to walk along the public streets of Manchester in the Village area despite the Department for Transport explicitly ruling in 2013 that this was unlawful. The whole thing is rotten to the core and should be stopped in it’s current form. www.factsmcr.com/This year will be the first time in nearly twenty years that I won't be going. In the past I have been happy to pay for a ticket into the Gay Village under the impression that, after paying for security etc the remainder would go to charity. However after everything that has to come to light this week I realise this isn't the case and have had my ticket refunded. I'd love to go and support the bars and businesses that have struggled over the last 18 months but to an extent they are complicit with Manchester Pride as many won't serve people without a wristband. |
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Post by kathryn on Aug 14, 2021 22:54:41 GMT
OMG I’ve just seen the ‘form’ sent to residents - how can they possibly tell people that they can’t have visitors to their home unless they pay to enter the area?! That’s outrageous!
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