2,342 posts
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 16:58:09 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 10, 2018 16:58:09 GMT
Only one other played getting warned in the whole tournament just shows you how rare it is given how much signalling goes on. And yes standard WTA tournaments have on court coaching which guess what Serena almost never uses. 2009 completely agree Serena was at fault. 2011 it was a clean winner which Stosur had no chance of making and why does Serena's scream get warned while Sharapova's constant screeching goes unremarked by umpires. So the only question is why does Serena get harsher treatment than the average player. Not the average player, the average male player. Female martyr's and all that
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 18:49:49 GMT
2011 it was a clean winner which Stosur had no chance of making and why does Serena's scream get warned while Sharapova's constant screeching goes unremarked by umpires. Because players screech/grunt when making their own shots. Serena deliberately screamed when Stosur was trying to play a shot. Whether she would have made it is irrelevant, it's unsports(wo)man like and it obviously puts the other player off. I can't believe anyone is trying to make excuses for her, but that says a lot about how much of a pedestal Serena is put on compared to other female players. It's a telling indictment of those taking Serena's side that they haven't said a word about Osaka.
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952 posts
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 21:03:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by vdcni on Sept 10, 2018 21:03:19 GMT
I'm not actually a fan of Serena, when your favourite player of all time is Justine Henin you tend not to be.
I wanted Osaka to win but I also wanted a good match and the umpire got in the way of that and treated Serena unfairly.
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494 posts
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 23:09:02 GMT
Post by ellie1981 on Sept 10, 2018 23:09:02 GMT
There were two players on that court but everything became all about her, Williams should be fined heavily and I wouldn't be unhappy with a ban of a few weeks as well. Such a display of entitlement was against the spirit of the game and either conscious or unconscious gamesmanship, Osaka should be applauded for not getting drawn in and she deserves an official apology. The crowd made Williams, and the situation, worse, if they can't keep a crowd controlled then the USTA need to be sanctioned and warned against any future similar happenings. American crowds have a habit of this, you don't get the same at Wimbledon; even with Murray there has always been an appreciation of the other player. Golf crowds are similar and the Ryder cup has, at times, gone the same way too. I distinctly remember some appalling crowds at Wimbledon in the days of Tim Henman. Some extremely disrespectful OTT cheering at every unforced error from his opponents.
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Serena
Sept 11, 2018 10:36:01 GMT
Post by Mr Snow on Sept 11, 2018 10:36:01 GMT
Whilst I can see this is more about Serena than sexism per se, she is demanding the right to be treated in the same manner as if her behaviour was exhibited by a male Tennis Player. i.e. If they can be aggressive A+++++++’s to the Umpire, then so can she.
At the same time in her rant she did reference being a mother and the high standards that implies. We often hear calls for more feminine virtues to be adopted in society and these are normally considered to involve less overt aggression.
I still feel we are working our way towards some kind of better balance in society, but it’s hard to know if this ugly incident helps or not. As so often it seems to divide us down the lines we normally lean to.
Take Serena’s explosion out of this discussion and it’s easy to see a lack of consistency of treatment (including the fact that star names and finals get more lenient treatment) by the Authorities, is plainly wrong. Particularly as they can plan and should not be acting in the heat of the moment.
The whole thing is one big mess, but the Game has the responsibility to look at this before the next aging Diva (Sic) has a moment.
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Serena
Sept 11, 2018 10:54:23 GMT
Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 11, 2018 10:54:23 GMT
The answer is simple. Enforce the rules of the game without fear or favour.
Yes, there is always a matter of interpretation. But the rules exist. Apply them. Give penalties were dictated by the rules. Fine offenders who do not live up to the rules and the spirit of the game. And make those fines actually have a financial impact.
Williams was fine a paltry amount of money for her behaviour on Saturday. Even the 6-figure fine for her 2009 incident would have sent a clearer message - even though she would hardly have noticed it out of her $1.8 million prize money.
But unless the penalties are real and the impact tangible, it is too easy to brush them off.
Make it hurt. Behaviour will change.
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316 posts
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Post by martello736 on Sept 11, 2018 11:09:29 GMT
I was really surprised to see the reaction on Twitter to this, as I watched the whole thing live and I felt it was clear that Serena was evidently at fault.
Carlos Ramos is a notoriously strict umpire, this has always been the case. Rafael Nadal moaned about him in an interview last year after he was given two official warnings for slow play, something very few umpires enforce but Carlos always does. There is more than enough evidence to suggest that he penalises male players just as badly as he does female ones, yes he's a bit of a knob, but he's a knob universally.
Whether Serena saw her coach signalling to her or not, a member of her team was breaking the rules, so she was rightly warned for it. If she was angry, she should have taken it out on her coach, who later admitted he had done the very thing she was warned for. Throwing a temper tantrum and breaking your racket before shouting personal abuse at the umpire is crappy behaviour regardless of whether it comes from a man or a woman, Serena is not making a groundbreaking heroic stand against sexism by insisting that she should be allowed to throw tantrums on the court with impunity. It is true that in many instances women get a rougher time of it than men (there was the whole debacle earlier on in the tournament about a woman changing her top during the game) but honestly, if you want to protest unequal treatment by umpires, bring it up in a press conference, or better still, wait until you are ACTUALLY being discriminated against. If your entire stance is "hey, isn't it unfair that I acted like a Tw*t and got punished accordingly" it's probably not a great position to have.
I actually was really angry at the end of the match when I saw Naomi in tears and the crowd booing. I know they weren't booing her but imagine winning your first grand slam title, being the first person from your country ever to win one in fact, only to have your opponent overshadow your win by deliberately being an asshole. I used to have the utmost respect for Serena as she is one of the few women who has managed to make a women's sport as popular as the men's equivalent, but this really made her go down in my estimations.
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Serena
Sept 11, 2018 11:29:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 11:29:51 GMT
There were two players on that court but everything became all about her, Williams should be fined heavily and I wouldn't be unhappy with a ban of a few weeks as well. Such a display of entitlement was against the spirit of the game and either conscious or unconscious gamesmanship, Osaka should be applauded for not getting drawn in and she deserves an official apology. The crowd made Williams, and the situation, worse, if they can't keep a crowd controlled then the USTA need to be sanctioned and warned against any future similar happenings. American crowds have a habit of this, you don't get the same at Wimbledon; even with Murray there has always been an appreciation of the other player. Golf crowds are similar and the Ryder cup has, at times, gone the same way too. I distinctly remember some appalling crowds at Wimbledon in the days of Tim Henman. Some extremely disrespectful OTT cheering at every unforced error from his opponents. Even that was of a different order (the cries of 'Come on Tim' still being inserted by some wag at inopportune moments). This crowd response was just feral.
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494 posts
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Serena
Sept 11, 2018 12:03:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by ellie1981 on Sept 11, 2018 12:03:51 GMT
Yes, I’d say the US Open crowds in general are worse. The capacity is so huge on the Arthur Ashe court it’s almost pointless being sat all the way up at the back. Wimbledon Centre Court gets a pretty decent view everywhere.
Still, I’ll never forget my all time fav Wimbledon year of 2001. It was the year Ivanisevic won, and pretty much every men’s match from the fourth round onwards was an epic, memorable battle. Some people still love to go on about how Henman would have beaten Ivanisevic in the SF if it wasn’t for rain delays, only completely forgetting that he’d have easily been out in the fourth round against Todd Martin for the same reason, as well as the horrendous crowd batting for Martin’s demise with every point.
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Serena
Sept 11, 2018 12:38:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 12:38:04 GMT
Serena's coach is really the person we should blame as he was signalling to her but she clearly didn't see it whilst the Umpire did. She smashed her racket which was wrong but many do, the umpire applied the letter of the law but at a very crucial part of the match. The pressure may have got a bit to Serena - looking to equal the female grand slam singles titles record. She turns 37 in a couple of weeks so chances are going by.
She didn't play the race card but was a bit arrogant but to be that successful you need arrogance as much as natural ability and self confidence.
I've always been a fan of hers over the years so I may be a bit biased towards her. But she doesn't need to still be playing but she chooses to and still plays to a high level.
McEnroe back in the day was an explosion waiting to happen, the crowd at Wimbledon would egg him on to blow his top and you'd almost watch the matches for that spectacle as much as to see his natural brilliance.
One thing I did find unfair was when a female player was given a violation for changing her top around in a match. Women cannot change their tops in a match but men can. Whilst in no way would you want it to be a peep show. The women would all wear sports bras underneath and often practice in them so it would be no different to what a female athlete wears to compete in.
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2,342 posts
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Serena
Sept 11, 2018 16:57:38 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 11, 2018 16:57:38 GMT
There were two players on that court but everything became all about her, Williams should be fined heavily and I wouldn't be unhappy with a ban of a few weeks as well. Such a display of entitlement was against the spirit of the game and either conscious or unconscious gamesmanship, Osaka should be applauded for not getting drawn in and she deserves an official apology. The crowd made Williams, and the situation, worse, if they can't keep a crowd controlled then the USTA need to be sanctioned and warned against any future similar happenings. American crowds have a habit of this, you don't get the same at Wimbledon; even with Murray there has always been an appreciation of the other player. Golf crowds are similar and the Ryder cup has, at times, gone the same way too. I distinctly remember some appalling crowds at Wimbledon in the days of Tim Henman. Some extremely disrespectful OTT cheering at every unforced error from his opponents. Come on Tim
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Serena
Sept 14, 2018 12:15:45 GMT
Post by Mr Snow on Sept 14, 2018 12:15:45 GMT
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Serena
Sept 14, 2018 12:20:13 GMT
Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 14, 2018 12:20:13 GMT
In order to play the victim card, you actually need to be a victim.
Otherwise you disrespect all the real victims.
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