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Post by indis on Sept 11, 2018 18:09:41 GMT
there were a few examples of how they translate the show - and if they put these lines out to make people book, i have to say i would refrain because of them - good lord, even the song thats in the shows title got another meaning : they made bat out of the hell into "like a shadow so fast" (sorry for the wrong english but thats translated word from word from the german title)
and the thing i mostly don't get - they turn "The Lost" into "The Freezers" (but in English) why replace one english word with another which sounds more stupid?
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 12, 2018 9:31:00 GMT
"The Freezers" sounds cool to me. I'll get me coat. Any more like that and you'll be given the cold shoulder!
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Post by viserys on Sept 12, 2018 9:35:49 GMT
It was the "Wie ein Schatten so schnell" Line that immediately turned me off, because it reminds me of the incredibly awful translation that ruined "Rent" in Germany many years ago. Basically the thinking "If I can't find anything that makes sense, I'll just make something up".
The phrase "fast as a shadow" doesn't exist in German. If you want to describe someone or something as extremely fast, you say "fast (quick) as lightning" or "as an arrow" (blitzschnell, pfeilschnell). But of course "Blitz" and "Pfeil" have just one syllable while he needed a word with two syllables here, so hey, let's just use Schatten, even if nobody ever uses that. In fact, it only draws a ludicrous association with Belgian comic book figure Lucky Luke who "shoots faster than his shadow" .
So people sing rubbish on stage, the audience frowns and thinks "what is he on about?" and enjoyment is dead.
The worst sin ever committed was the translation of Rent, where the show's central message "No Day but Today" was translated with a nonsensical "Niemals oder Gleich" (Never or Now).
Oh and the "Bat" translator said in the interview (which I think indis is referring to as well) that "once everything has been sung in German" (and the audience got it) that famous lines would be repeated in English for the singalong feeling. Sooooo.... yaaaay.... we get a mash-up of German and English within the same songs. You couldn't make it up.
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 12, 2018 9:50:03 GMT
Any more like that and you'll be given the cold shoulder! That's pretty icy of you. Sorry you feel that way. I always try to be ice to people (and monkeys) rather than frosty!
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Post by viserys on Sept 19, 2018 10:11:43 GMT
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Post by indis on Sept 19, 2018 10:23:49 GMT
awesome to see Willemijn in it - cool cast apart from the Chosen Tink saw the Actor in Dance of the Vampire - very thin and quaky voice and no acting at all apart from Always making big eyes and open the mouth hope to see his cover
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Post by viserys on Sept 19, 2018 10:33:35 GMT
I liked him in Tanz der Vampire, he was one of the few positive aspects of that godawful show. But he's too old for Tink. The alternate Strat has some interesting rock music credits, but is also way too old to appear "Forever 18". They cast Willemijn Verkaik as a star name, then announce that there's an alternate Sloane. Sharon Sexton never needed an alternate. Once again Stage turns it into an utter gamble to see a "star performer" for who people would book on name recognition. Scrolling through the German FB page of Bat, I can't help noticing how many people are turned off by the German translation. Oh well, good luck to them. I booked my plane ticket to see the US-Tour in Philadelphia with the one and only true Strat instead
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Post by Michael on Sept 19, 2018 11:17:06 GMT
Not even Willemijn gets me to sit through the German production, even if I knew for sure she'd be on. Scrolling through the German FB page of Bat, I can't help noticing how many people are turned off by the German translation. Because it's
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Post by indis on Sept 19, 2018 16:05:23 GMT
I liked him in Tanz der Vampire, he was one of the few positive aspects of that godawful show. But he's too old for Tink. The alternate Strat has some interesting rock music credits, but is also way too old to appear "Forever 18". They cast Willemijn Verkaik as a star name, then announce that there's an alternate Sloane. thats funny, he ruined the show for me 🤣 only Jan Ammann as the count saved it , lol there is an alternate Sloane? I only saw that Franziska Schuster has a cover: good voice but in Ravens age and way too young for Sloane
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Post by viserys on Sept 19, 2018 16:21:32 GMT
Well, to each their own taste. I couldn't stand David Arnsperger as Krolock, he looked like a bad Meatloaf tribute and had zero charisma. And yea, Franziska Schuster is listed as "Walk-in Cover" but we know what it means, she and probably 1-2 understudies will all have their monthly shows, nothing is communicated in advance and it'll always be a gamble who's performing. I gave up booking Stage shows to see certain performers years ago.
It mostly just stood out to me because Willemijn is the only "name" in the cast and has legions of fans who might want to book for her and then Sloane is the only role apart from Strat that gets a "Walk-in Cover" in the first place. That just reeks of "yea, we hired Willemijn, but she'll be allowed to take tons of time off to faff around elsewhere during the run" - she is doing that Best of Musicals concert tour in the Netherlands for example.
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Post by indis on Sept 19, 2018 16:42:18 GMT
do you have dates of that tour already to rule that out for a visit?
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Post by viserys on Sept 19, 2018 16:47:01 GMT
So far it's: 16 tot en met 18 mei 2019 Martiniplaza Groningen 22 tot en met 26 mei 2019 in Chassé theater in Breda 29 mei 2019 in Theater de Spiegel in Zwolle 30 mei tot en met 2 juni 2019 in het Luxor theater 5 juni 2019 in de Goudse Schouwburg 7 tot en met 9 juni 2019 Theater Orpheus Apeldoorn 11 tot en met 16 juni 2019 in Parkstad Limburg Theaters Heerlen So I think you might be safe until late March, I guess, until they start rehearsals some time in April. Other tour dates might still be added. Who knows if Bat even runs that long
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Post by indis on Sept 19, 2018 17:01:00 GMT
perfect thanks, was thinking about going in december on my way to Dortmund to see West Side Story
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Post by viserys on Sept 19, 2018 17:08:23 GMT
Good luck. I'm planning to see the Dutch concert tour actually, so maybe Willemijn will treat me/us to the English version of "What part of my body hurts the most" so I get to hear her live.
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Post by indis on Nov 6, 2018 17:45:41 GMT
Trailer Oberhausen
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Post by viserys on Nov 9, 2018 10:31:58 GMT
Well, the reviews have been surprisingly good so far, but then local papers rarely diss "their" productions. Since they approve of the godawful German translations I can't take them seriously anyway, but if it sells a few tickets, fair game to them.
Willemijn and Alex (Sloane + Falco) are not surprisingly scooping up all the praise. Can't wait to see what I'll make of this.
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Post by martello736 on Nov 11, 2018 12:17:24 GMT
Willemijn’s fanpage have announced her first holiday dates as Sunday 18 November, Saturday 27 November and Sunday 28 November. I’m unsure as to whether it’s the days or the dates of the last two that they’ve got wrong (or both).
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Post by viserys on Nov 11, 2018 14:02:11 GMT
It would only figure that the biggest star is already missing some of the first weekends when her fans can travel from further away to see her. It's typical for Stage Entertainment, so I wouldn't be surprised if she's out 24 + 25 Nov for all four weekend performances. But who knows, maybe it's only the Tue and Wed after all. This at least makes me vaguely hopeful that she'll be on when I see the show this coming Thursday.
I can't for the life of me imagine that Robin Reitsma will do all four weekend performances either, considering the London Strat has an alternate without even doing four shows in two days, but of course Stage isn't able to publish a "Strat Schedule" the way London does for all who are keen to see the actual lead guy.
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Post by viserys on Nov 11, 2018 14:37:14 GMT
They corrected it now, she'll be out Sundays 18 + 25, and Tue 27 + Wed 28.
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Post by jenc94 on Nov 11, 2018 19:07:25 GMT
It would only figure that the biggest star is already missing some of the first weekends when her fans can travel from further away to see her. It's typical for Stage Entertainment, so I wouldn't be surprised if she's out 24 + 25 Nov for all four weekend performances. But who knows, maybe it's only the Tue and Wed after all. This at least makes me vaguely hopeful that she'll be on when I see the show this coming Thursday. I can't for the life of me imagine that Robin Reitsma will do all four weekend performances either, considering the London Strat has an alternate without even doing four shows in two days, but of course Stage isn't able to publish a "Strat Schedule" the way London does for all who are keen to see the actual lead guy. Robin is doing 6 shows a week I think-but seen no schedule at all! Apparently, they have no programmes yet either....
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Post by Steffi on Nov 12, 2018 16:28:02 GMT
Not sure if it has been mentioned but Willemijn is part of the line up of West End does: Christmas at Cardogan Hall on December 1st so she definitely won’t be on that Saturday either.
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Post by viserys on Nov 16, 2018 6:14:33 GMT
Alright, you have been waiting for this, so fasten your seat belts, because here comes the rant. Let's begin with the positives, few as they are. The German version is pretty much identical to the London version minus a few bits I'll get to. Stage Entertainment hardly scrimped on the sets, but the ensemble is smaller which makes the stage look a bit empty in the bigger numbers like Dead Ringer for Love. Not sure about the band as I couldn't see them. The sound was okay, but not loud enough for my liking - I like the massive rock'n'roll feeling in London that engulfs you as soon as the first bars start. I was lucky in the typical Stage Cast Roulette and saw almost all first casts except Sarah Kornfeld (Raven) who has been out since the previews and who knows if she'll even be back. Maureen Mac Gillavry was rather dire and the low point of the leads, screeching her way through her big songs and I can't accept the argument that "she's just the understudy" because Georgia Carling is just as brilliant as Christina Bennington and anyway, understudies SHOULD be a match for the first cast or at least come close to them. At least Alex Melcher (Falco) and Willemijn Verkaik (Sloane) were as fantastic as I had expected of them. As for Robin Reitsma, well, I didn't expect a Dutch Andrew Polec and didn't get one, but he was decent enough (I liked him better than Jordan anyway). I don't blame him for "Bat out of Hell" being a mess because even Andrew would not be able to polish this German turd into a great rock number. "For crying out loud" was awful though, with both Robin and Maureen unable to hit the big notes and screeching their way through it like karaoke night at a Spanish holiday resort. If only I had the bucket of sangria to go with that. So, the big issue: As I had expected, it doesn't work at all in German. It's not the right sound and the translation is absolutely awful, often forcing people to sing nonsense that no German speaker would say. I so often got the sense that the performers felt like shackles had been lifted as soon as they could sing a few lines in English, most notably Aisata Blackman as Zahara. When she started "Two out of three" in German, I was thinking, oh God, that girl is awful, who cast her, until she got to the last chorus, where she switched to English and suddenly sounded nearly Danielle-levels of fabulous. Another painful example was "It's all coming back to me now", which started awful in German until all four sang the last part in English and suddenly there was this glorious uplifting feeling that power ballad gives me in London when they all sing their hearts out and the music transports you. These bits in English were even more painful than doing everything in German because it kept reminding me of what could have been. And of course the biggest irony is that they claim to have translated it because "the German audience wants to understand what's being sung on stage" and then as per usual cast mostly foreigners whose heavily accentuated German can't be understood half the time anyway. With six out of nine bigger parts being played by Dutch people, why don't we just play in Dutch anyway? Don't get me wrong, I like our neighbours, but how is it even possible that a country of roughly 17 million inhabitants needs to supply a country of +80 milliom inhabitants with a steady stream of performers? Where is our own talent and why can't we nurture and support it? So, let me try to remember what's different from London/what's the same: The opening monologue is done by Raven instead of Strat, which makes no sense whatsoever. How can the mollycoddled princess in the tower look back on such a rock'n'roll past? It also means we get two Ravens when "All revved up" starts - the real one still on stage and a decoy we only see from the back in her bedroom with Sloane. How is the audience even supposed to make sense of it? And of course we get no introduction at all to what's meant to be our leading man this way. The following songs are pretty much the same as in London. In "Paradise by the dashboard light" the footage was changed from American baseball to old German football footage, which might amuse the odd person but also makes no sense considering we're supposed to be in New York. A warning: While the car goes down a bit deeper than in London, do not sit on the right side of the first few rows in the central section, it will still hamper your view. We were just about central enough to look past it. In "Bat out of Hell" they had scrimped on the effects - the motorbike doesn't explode into several small physical bits on stage, it's just a projection in the background. Doesn't matter really though, because this legendary rock song translated into godawful German (no "like a shadow so fast" is NOT an expression anyone would ever use, argh) was the biggest let down of the evening anyway and also at least two sizes too big for young Robin. He might get there, given a few months and the chance to perform this in English, but again, it's no excuse really, as Andrew rocked my socks off in the very first weeks in Manchester and didn't need months to get into it. (That said, my Mom commented in the interval "hey, that Dutch kid is doing a really good job" and while I replied "um, no, Mom, imagine that song done with about ten times as much energy and a kick-ass rock voice in English and you get there" it probably works better for those who have no comparison). Second act also pretty much like in London. Alex doesn't manage (yet?) to whack the doll's head in mid-air baseball-style but whacks it from the ground like a golf ball. Not a big deal, just amusing, because I always wonder how long it took Rob Fowler to master that little bit. In "Heaven can wait" Raven is interrupted by Sloane in the middle of the song, which I can't remember from London and is stupid, why interrupt her big ballad (not that it was very big here)?
Vocally "What part of my body hurts the most" was the highlight (it had been the video of Willemijn and Alex singing this that had nudged me into booking tickets) but again, was made nearly unbearable by the clunky German that no one would ever use in the real world, so I could only think, "the part of my body that hurts the most are my ears". I have booked for the Dutch concert series with Willemijn next spring and pray she'll sing this song in English then, so I can fully enjoy her vocal power.
Surprisingly there was even a pool into which Falco jumps at the end. For the nitpickers: He even keeps the scar here (perhaps because Alex unlike Rob isn't wigged?). So in conclusion: If you go and see this without knowing much German just to see it again after London closes, you might be okay because you won't realize how awful the translation is. But it's not just that, I really feel that many of the performers are hampered by it and don't sound as good as they could. Quality-wise most are up there with the current London cast, though I don't know how they can solve their Raven problem. For me, personally, it wasn't a disappointment, because I had gone in with the very lowest expectations, so I merely found them confirmed. I don't mind going just to have seen this version and cast. Should Stage Entertainment ever heed the many complaints on their social media on the German translation and offer 1-2 performances per week in English, I would give the cast another chance to show what can do. But as it it, Stage proved to me once more that whatever show they lay their hands on, they manage to turn into a big steaming pile of poo that's certainly not worth the sky-high prices they charge. Me, I look forward to seeing it in London once or twice more before it ends and pray for the miracle that the New York run will indeed happen.
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Post by indis on Nov 16, 2018 15:43:29 GMT
don't know who long this will be running, one week after the Premiere and half of the theatre is empty they don't even have a picture book of the cast, and the official FB-Site stated they don't know when or if there will be one - not a good sign guess no german CD if it is that unsuccessful
the first cast Raven did one or 2 shows and even had to quit the premiere show midway because of vocal problems and is off since then wonder what happened - have to admit though, when i saw the video she did with the Strat, Sloane and Falco, her voice was very week, never thought she would master the rock score
i am wrestling with myself if i want to travel sooo far to see these awful german translation, every bit they put out as promotion is worse than the one before and i can see myself shuddering in theatre because of some wording (f.e. the translation of "what part of my body hurts the most" - who thought that would be a good translation?)
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Post by tom08 on May 7, 2019 20:38:45 GMT
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Post by graham on May 8, 2019 9:54:46 GMT
Ironic given the overlap with large chunks of the score!!
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