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Post by altamont on Mar 6, 2017 8:01:43 GMT
Reading David Weston's Covering McKellen, he laments the decision to reconfigure the Royal Shakespeare Theatre stage as a thrust design, saying that the old proscenium style of the RST was good enough for Olivier, Gielgud and Schofield.
I only went to the old RST once, and to be honest hated it, although to be honest we were high up in the circle. On the other hand, I love both the design of the new RST and the Swan - they just seem to be much more intimate spaces, and to my mind proximity to the stage is paramount.
Weston also says that thrust stages can often lead to problems with sight lines (he actually describes the design of the Courtyard Theatre at Stratford as "faulty"). which I can agree with although have never found it a problem from the audience point of view
Curious to know other thoughts on this.....
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 6, 2017 8:17:37 GMT
A great example you have used here.
You see a production at the RST and you are never far away from the action and you can hear the words clearly even when it is un-microphoned.
So when the RST goes to London to the Proscenium arched Barbican, you can not hear the words clearly because you can be far from the action and the acoustics under the overhang are poor, so in a Proscenium type theatre, there is a need to move into the 21st century.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 8:22:33 GMT
Old white man moans that things arnt as great as they used to be. The world ignores
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 8:35:36 GMT
Reading David Weston's Covering McKellen, he laments the decision to reconfigure the Royal Shakespeare Theatre stage as a thrust design, saying that the old proscenium style of the RST was good enough for Olivier, Gielgud and Schofield. The old RST stage and auditorium were never satisfactory. Various modifications were made over the years to both the stage and the auditorium but the main problematic issues couldn't be solved. The actors were aware of the poor situation and so was the audience. It's all explained in the RSC's Transformation book, although I admit that's biased in favour of the theatre transformation, for obvious reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 9:33:13 GMT
Personally, I much prefer a thrust to a proscenium. I just feel a bit more involved, and I think the configuration actually makes directors far more aware of sightlines. There's an assumption with the proscenium that we're all looking from the same angle so they can do very specific images and tableaux, but anyone who's been in an audience knows that the angles are still all over the place and you can miss some very basic things even if you're in what should be a very good seat. With a thrust, you will block some people's views sometimes but any good director knows how to make sure it's fairly equally spread around and rarely for very long. Some people say you can't really do anything interesting with sets in a thrust space, but the RSC is quite good about proving them wrong. Both recent Love's Labour's Losts were lovely, and The Heart of Robin Hood had THE GREATEST set.
Also, if David Weston prefers a proscenium, then I'm EVEN MORE inclined to throw my hat in with Team Thrust, as I don't think I want to be on the same side as such an unnervingly negative man.
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Post by David J on Mar 6, 2017 12:45:09 GMT
My never-ending crave for Shakespeare productions stems from Michael Boyd's Henry VI trilogy in the old Courtyard Theatre in Stratford. The thrust stage that gave people a taster of what the new RST was going to be like. The production used the space to its full potential and more. I was amazed at the way characters would appear from above, below, from every corner of the space and from the balconies. It felt electrifying.
I only saw four productions in the original RST (Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, Great Expectations, Julius Caesar (2006), and The Merry Wives of Windsor the Musical). Can't remember much about it, though every time we were sitting in the stalls close to the stage so I had no complaints about it.
I keep feeling that Shakespeare wrote his plays for the thrust stage. I mean think about it, the Globe itself is a thrust stage. The plays are written with intimacy in mind (and some involvement with the audience as well). I still like Shakespeare productions on the Proscenium, but every time I feel that something is missing. Other plays manage fine but its something about Shakespeare's plays that can get lost on the Proscenium.
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Post by showgirl on Mar 6, 2017 12:54:30 GMT
My favourite theatres are fan-shaped or in-the-round (Salisbury Playhouse, Hampstead main house, Royal Court Upstairs and Young Vic - both last two depending on configuration- to name a few), but given the above choice, I'd go for thrust of the two.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 13:34:28 GMT
Another vote for thrust - proscenium stages are really alienating.
The old RST put me off going to the RSC for about 15 years - you might as well have been in a different room.
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4,987 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 6, 2017 14:17:12 GMT
Trust all the way
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 14:17:52 GMT
Rust ll he ay
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2,778 posts
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Post by daniel on Mar 6, 2017 15:21:13 GMT
I love a good thrust.
*chuckles*
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 16:20:13 GMT
While we're vaguely on the subject, I would dearly love to never again overhear someone saying "it's in the round, but only on three sides". THEN IT'S NOT IN THE ROUND, IS IT? IT'S A *THRUST*.
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Post by lynette on Mar 6, 2017 18:43:15 GMT
The old RSC was ok from the punters' point of view. They fiddled about with it from time to time , using the aisles etc, and you could hear a whisper wherever you sat, in my experience anyway. But then the actors did know how to do it..... I liked the Courtyard, lovely up and down stuff in the Histories there. I knew they would try to hang on to it somehow despite its temporary nature. I love the Swan, you can see and hear well and they use the stage very imaginatively. It is a pleasure to go in and see what the set is like every time. The new biggie though is not so warm yet, not so intimate. And I find that sometimes I can't hear the actors. I always sit in the stalls. And invariably they stand actors blocking the action. So much so that I prefer to sit on the side now with a chance of seeing a reaction from an important character rather than see his back if I sit face on. I think with the set for The Tempest this year they are beginning to realise how impressive this stage can be and how they must let it sing, let it wow us. And the actors must respond to this space.
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Post by Jan on Mar 6, 2017 18:47:20 GMT
I've never seen a good set design on a thrust stage. Rupert Goold says the best theatre to direct in is the Lyttelton because it is a "box of tricks", Red Barn was a great example. For large theatres I prefer proscenium, for small thrust of some type.
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Post by alece10 on Mar 6, 2017 19:02:49 GMT
What about the poor old traverse?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 19:21:10 GMT
What about the poor old traverse? Ughh! You mean where you sit and see more of the audience opposite, in between trying to get your feet under your seat so they're not trampled on by the actors?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 19:33:45 GMT
I'd vote for anything other than a proscenium arch. I'm really quite surprised to be honest that anyone would prefer a proscenium, as I just can't see the advantages. Unless you've got really good seats, you often might as well be watching on a screen - it's like a divide between the play up there, and the audience out here. Some modern proscenium arches are ok, where they're really open and wide, but I find the old Victorian west end theatres quite hard work. I love the new RST and the Swan, and I really love the Crucible (and the Crucible Studio, which is often in the round) because you're just so involved in the action and so close to the performers, even at the back.
Having said that, the most exciting place I've sat was for the James Plays, which was in a proscenium arch theatre, where I had onstage seating. That was fantastic.
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Post by Jan on Mar 6, 2017 22:20:49 GMT
I saw Winters Take on a thrust stage and for the entire trial scene Leontes sat on a chair with his back to me, on a thrust stage all the seats are restricted view. The alternative approach is in every scene the actors walk round continuously in a circle, watch out for it at the RSC. Of course all the West End theatres are rubbish but the Lyttelton say is much better. Director's theatre works much better there because they give them more control over what the audience can see, the recent Hedda Gabler for example.
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Post by lynette on Mar 6, 2017 22:48:38 GMT
The Lyttleton sometimes looks good but the width of the stage makes the action unconvincing. Those wide Russian apartments, that stupid American house, just two that come to mind. If you want excellent sets, the Donmar has it nailed, the lighting there is often sensational. Not so much lately , maybe budget cuts. The Swan has had some great sets. An hour after Marriage? Then more recently there is the latest one with the brothers..honestly Jan, you must have seen some of them. I like the way the Cottesloe used to adapt the stage to the play. Hampstead has had a go at this. One stage that rarely works - what is it, a fan? an amphitheatre? - is the Olivier. Hearing is a problem from the circle and the side stalls. Yes, you can see, but it lends itself to messy staging, blurred edges which are not always appropriate. It works for Brecht. It works for mega musicals. Otherwise, it must be a real burden.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 10:34:46 GMT
Rufus Norris is brilliant in the Olivier Theatre.
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Post by Jan on Mar 7, 2017 13:58:32 GMT
Rufus Norris is brilliant in the Olivier Theatre. There have been loads of good things done there, Nicholas Hytner directed there a lot. Just incidentally the actors have always been amplified in there, right from when it opened.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 7, 2017 15:35:38 GMT
Tamburlaine the Great was miked? Are you sure? - Albert Finney, Denis Quilley, Barbara Jefford etc had enormous voices. Anyone else remember them rehearsing it out on the terrace because of the strikes? I used to go with schoolmates to watch. Had a lot to do with why I've gone on to spend a bloody fortune in that theatre.
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Post by altamont on Mar 7, 2017 20:21:22 GMT
I'm happy to see most people favouring the thrust over the proscenium arch - I wondered if it was just me.
To me, proximity is everything - I don't understand people who choose to sit further back. I want to see the actors, not the backs of other people's heads
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Post by Jan on Mar 7, 2017 21:22:00 GMT
Tamburlaine the Great was miked? Are you sure? - Albert Finney, Denis Quilley, Barbara Jefford etc had enormous voices. Anyone else remember them rehearsing it out on the terrace because of the strikes? I used to go with schoolmates to watch. Had a lot to do with why I've gone on to spend a bloody fortune in that theatre. I didn't quite say they were miked. They had fixed microphones distributed round the stage. Trev was the first to put radio microphones on them in non-musicals and the actors, particularly SR-B, complained about that.
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