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Post by crowblack on Aug 5, 2022 9:35:42 GMT
I believe it is the same when you ask what a man is, impossible to define legally and not as simple as first thought in biological terms. This is why it has become a gotcha question as there is no universal definition, is a man who in an accident lost his penis still a man, there are hermaphrodites who are assigned a gender at birth but by definition are intersex and many who are transgender clearly state their ‘mind’ is a different gender to their body. I for one cannot imagine the bravery of a transgender person who transitions knowing they will be vilified for being who they are. Have to admit I am happy when Starmer is being criticised for this as it shows the lack of any real criticism and shows the depth of thought he gave when answering, he is unable in law or gender to give a black and white answer to what is in reality a very complex question, a great trait for someone who has ambition of power. Please be kind if you disagree with me, transgender people are not cannon fodder in your faux ‘woke’ war and have already made the most difficult decision imaginable and do not deserve being a Political football. There are two sexes, and a small number of individuals within them with disorders of sexual development. There are people with genuine gender dysphoria who may find peace by medically transitioning, there are a growing number of teenage girls for whom it has become a way to try to identify out of the pressures of growing up female in a porn and image saturated culture, like anorexia a generation before, and who do not have the pop tribes our generation had to escape the 'male gaze' or safely experiment with identity within, there are effeminate boys with homophobic parents who want to change them (I have one of these in my extended family), and there are fully intact heterosexual males with a sexual fetish who are turned on by wearing 'feminine' clothing, going into female spaces or being 'sissified' during sex. It is the latter who are now some of the loudest, most demanding and threatening voices online and increasingly at demos. All these very different types of people have been recently grouped together under one word 'trans' and Labour needs to understand that and unpick that so we can discuss this subject properly, especially when it comes to 'self-ID' and all the issues that cascade from that, and very pressingly addressing the issue of what's driving the surge in numbers of teenagers. Once upon a time, the Left would have been championing whistleblowers and asking questions about the driving forces and the huge profits being made by commodifying children's bodies and teenage distress in this way. Starmer saying "we shouldn't say that", trying to shut down discussion, and misrepresenting the legal definition of a woman, is not the way to make progress.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2022 17:26:16 GMT
I believe it is the same when you ask what a man is, impossible to define legally and not as simple as first thought in biological terms. This is why it has become a gotcha question as there is no universal definition, is a man who in an accident lost his penis still a man, there are hermaphrodites who are assigned a gender at birth but by definition are intersex and many who are transgender clearly state their ‘mind’ is a different gender to their body. I for one cannot imagine the bravery of a transgender person who transitions knowing they will be vilified for being who they are. Have to admit I am happy when Starmer is being criticised for this as it shows the lack of any real criticism and shows the depth of thought he gave when answering, he is unable in law or gender to give a black and white answer to what is in reality a very complex question, a great trait for someone who has ambition of power. Please be kind if you disagree with me, transgender people are not cannon fodder in your faux ‘woke’ war and have already made the most difficult decision imaginable and do not deserve being a Political football. I had no intention to derail the thread, just mentioned it as an example of why many people cannot view Starmer as ‘sensible’. But probably worth noting that the rights and safety of women and girls (and other groups, but mostly natal females) have been turned into a political football by radical trans rights groups. We don’t deserve that either, but it’s been forced on us. Hence the ‘woke’ wars are very far from ‘faux’ for a great many of us, and we’ll vote accordingly. Do I think either of the remaining candidates are strong enough on this topic? The jury’s out. I’d have voted for Badenoch in a heartbeat, though. She gets it.
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Aug 5, 2022 17:40:26 GMT
I had no intention to derail the thread, just mentioned it as an example of why many people cannot view Starmer as ‘sensible’. Yes, I want to see 'the adults back in the room', as the saying goes, on this and everything else. More listening to the likes of Prof. Robert Winston, less to Owen Jones.
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2,340 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Aug 5, 2022 17:51:07 GMT
I had no intention to derail the thread, just mentioned it as an example of why many people cannot view Starmer as ‘sensible’. Yes, I want to see 'the adults back in the room', as the saying goes, on this and everything else. More listening to the likes of Prof. Robert Winston, less to Owen Jones. Eh?
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19,793 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 5, 2022 18:03:13 GMT
Fair warning: we are not having the gender discussion on this thread. Thanks.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 5, 2022 20:04:51 GMT
The next female is going to be a Liz.
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Post by firefingers on Sept 5, 2022 15:10:46 GMT
It's an odd question for me. Do I want the best possible leader or do I want a car crash so they get removed from power at the next general election. Car crash vote goes to Truss. And so it cane to pass, that the obvious worst option from the start became PM. Truly bonkers.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 5, 2022 15:14:39 GMT
There is worse coming...
Rumours have it that Suella Braverman will take over from Priti Patel at the Home Office
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4,993 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 5, 2022 15:15:42 GMT
I'm delighted Boris has gone but ...
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594 posts
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Post by og on Sept 5, 2022 15:16:00 GMT
Boris' press team will be jubilant! His reign of terror will be followed by someone who will make him look positively brilliant.
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Post by Jan on Sept 5, 2022 15:24:15 GMT
No-one from the left of the party can win with the members. Tugendhat and Hunt therefore have no chance unless they fix it so that the MPs agree a single candidate so it doesn't have to go to a members vote, like they did when May ascended to the throne. If Boris endorses a candidate that will boost their chances with a few MPs and with a lot of the membership - if that is Mordaunt she may have a chance. Wallace appears popular but only because so far no-one seems to know what his position is on any issue at all except Ukraine. Zahawi is not a serious candidate. Baker likewise. So, Sunak or Truss I suppose. Sunak is perceived to be in Cummings' pocket, plus all his non-dom problems. So Truss I'd guess. Lord Frost would walk it if he were an MP - next time. July 8th. Called it. Will be interesting to see what Truss offers to Frost and Badenoch - her potential main rivals - some medium-level low-profile jobs to lock them in to collective responsibility I’d guess.
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2,340 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 5, 2022 18:47:43 GMT
No-one from the left of the party can win with the members. Tugendhat and Hunt therefore have no chance unless they fix it so that the MPs agree a single candidate so it doesn't have to go to a members vote, like they did when May ascended to the throne. If Boris endorses a candidate that will boost their chances with a few MPs and with a lot of the membership - if that is Mordaunt she may have a chance. Wallace appears popular but only because so far no-one seems to know what his position is on any issue at all except Ukraine. Zahawi is not a serious candidate. Baker likewise. So, Sunak or Truss I suppose. Sunak is perceived to be in Cummings' pocket, plus all his non-dom problems. So Truss I'd guess. Lord Frost would walk it if he were an MP - next time. July 8th. Called it. Will be interesting to see what Truss offers to Frost and Badenoch - her potential main rivals - some medium-level low-profile jobs to lock them in to collective responsibility I’d guess. Yeah I have the little tick next to Liz at the top also, although mine was probably more Joe Lycett levels of sarcasm. Just feel so depressed today.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 5, 2022 22:31:59 GMT
At least Dorries is resigning
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7,190 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 5, 2022 23:05:55 GMT
At least Dorries is resigning Dorries not being invited back into the Cabinet?! Truss is really clearing out the Boris era Cabinet, I suspect Grant Shapps is a goner as Transport Secretary which might not be a bad thing.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 6, 2022 0:25:34 GMT
Dorries was asked to stay but decided to return to writing her books...
Shapps has to go. Along with the lobbyists running the DoT
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7,190 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 6, 2022 0:34:04 GMT
Dorries was asked to stay but decided to return to writing her books... Shapps has to go. Along with the lobbyists running the DoT More money in books I suppose. I would imagine Culture will go to someone like Kemi Badenoch or Penny Mordaunt. Transport is a bit trickier but they need someone new to reset things.
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2,340 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 6, 2022 7:09:53 GMT
Did anyone else have a big storm last night? Lashing down, some great thunder and lightning??
Thought it quite apt with Liz Truss being confirmed as the new Tory leader
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Post by karloscar on Sept 6, 2022 8:38:38 GMT
Poor Nadine Dorries think that Boris is going to grant her a seat in the House of Lords. Has she no idea what a complete barsteward he is to any woman daft enough to fall for his dubious charms ( even when the devotion is unreciprocated)?
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Post by alece10 on Sept 6, 2022 9:48:04 GMT
Poor Nadine Dorries think that Boris is going to grant her a seat in the House of Lords. Has she no idea what a complete barsteward he is to any woman daft enough to fall for his dubious charms ( even when the devotion is unreciprocated)? Apparently there are over 300 people on his "thank you" list.
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Post by Marwood on Sept 6, 2022 12:58:20 GMT
On the BBC website, saying his farewell speech is being fact checked: why bother? He’s proven to be a liar on several occasions, let’s just get rid but unfortunately like Blair, Cameron and May have shown, now the proper lining his wallet will begin…
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 6, 2022 13:03:12 GMT
I’m tempted to change the thread title to a news app notification that came through on my phone yesterday “In Liz We Truss?” 😂
Made me chuckle anyway 😐
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7,190 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 6, 2022 13:03:21 GMT
On the BBC website, saying his farewell speech is being fact checked: why bother? He’s proven to be a liar on several occasions, let’s just get rid but unfortunately like Blair, Cameron and May have shown, now the proper lining his wallet will begin… I wonder which TV show he'll do first? IAC would be good (think of the maggot and kangaroo balls he can eat) or maybe Celebrity SAS Who Dares Wins.
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7,190 posts
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Post by Jon on Sept 6, 2022 13:04:41 GMT
I’m tempted to change the thread title to a news app notification that came through on my phone yesterday “In Liz We Truss?” 😂 Made me chuckle anyway 😐 More like Ms Truss the Prime Minister... I'll get me coat.
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Post by Deal J on Sept 6, 2022 14:02:35 GMT
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 6, 2022 15:27:26 GMT
We now have a seven-car motorcade, plus motorbike outriders, making its way from Northolt. That's not quite at US levels just yet, but it seems a little unnecessary. At least there's no ambulance!
The Queen somehow manages to get by with her Bentley, a VW minibus and a couple of policecars.
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